I agree with you.
Either the person isn't a 'good follower' and isn't going to the good place.
Or they don't actually believe. Because there should be no fear or apprehension about going to the good place
A fatal car accident is different. Could be a shock scare or just not wanting to be injured.
Belief in god has no bearing in reality.
Having said that, my grandfather outlived my grandmother by 10-15 years. On his deathbed, he was holding some marriage pictures. He was looking forward to seeing her. Guy believed 100%. Still makes me tear up thinking about it.
100% it's different.
Just because a movie has a jump scare it isn't necessarily a scary movie. There's a difference between some existential dread and 'boo'.
I'd argue that the accident is a startle response with body horror mixed in.
Some people are scared of death. Doesn't matter the cause. That's what I'm talking about. It's 100% different than a fatal car accident.
You're starting to get it?
That the true believers aren't afraid of death. The believers that are scared at the concept of dying aren't actually believers at all.
You don’t get it. Your “test” is not a fair test. Your making shit up to justify your feelings. You’re either 14 and think that you’re smarter than the rest of the world, or your just really, really stupid.
Either way I’m not going to continue arguing with a pigeon who thinks it’s playing chess.
I am aware of no such passage. Heaven didn’t occur to the people in that area until very late in the Bible writings. It is highly likely an introduction from the Greeks.
Suicide is only a sin, so it would theoretically be forgiven. Problem is you must atone for your sins before death, and there no way to atone if your dead by your own hand.
buddhism has that too. if people were offing themselves in hopes of somehow reaching enlightenment thru killing, i’ve never heard of it. lol. the buddhist reasoning is that killing in general is bad but killing oneself is the worst of all because the one being that can choose to become enlightened (or at least try) and that you have control over is yourself. “so get crackin’” being the idea there.
My cult taught my 13 yo self that were I to take my own life, I would have to re-experience the life that led me to suicide in order for my soul to learn the lesson. But since I robbed another soul of the oppertunity to live as me, I’d have added bad karma and would reincarnate in (a non specified country in) africa. No more help was offered.
I’ve beaten depression, but suffered losses in cognition due to its severity and length.
If you watch the testimonies of Near Death Experiences on YouTube, a general theme is that the sensation of dying, once you have passed over is one of a great relief like a great weight has been lifted from your soldiers. And those that get sent back often have regrets after returning to their body to complete their earthly missions, as the physical body is so heavy and uncomfortable. But there is usually a great sense of purpose attached to being here, even though most of the time these things are hidden from us. Maybe the reason these things are shrouded in mystery is so people don’t off themselves to get back to paradise. I have also seen some testimonies of suicide NDE’s and past-life regression hypnosis accounts in which people whose lives were prematurely cut short were reincarnated very soon after dying in order to learn the lessons or complete the missions/purpose of the life that was cut short.
My dad suffered a heart attack and died suddenly about a year ago. I’ve never been religious or very spiritual, but after his death I became a lot more open to peoples’ various ideas on the afterlife. There was such an unfair finality to losing him. I always feel as though he’s right there on speed dial, even at this moment, but when I go to reach out to him I’m reminded that he isn’t ever going to pick up even though he still feels close. It’s like he’s always on the tip of my tongue.
Of all the things I’ve read and heard in my exploration of the topic since, NDEs are hands-down the most comforting and convincing of them all. Even if it’s all some kind of grand and miraculous illusion that we endure across all cultures, with or without any physical brain activity, the thought of him finding peace and comfort in that moment of death and choosing not to return to his body is very beautiful to me. My dad lived a life or immense chronic pain. His leg was obliterated as a young man and reassembled with rods. He had degenerative disks in his spine, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. So many memories are of him whincing and breathing through pain. Of course he wouldn’t return to that battered and broken body.
So while it still feels shitty, and still feels unfair, I take solace in the thought of him shedding that shit, seeing his dad (suicide) and mom (cancer) with him again, and choosing to return to the ether, knowing full well that my mom, my brother, and myself will heal, and be okay, and reunite with him eventually too on the other side.
And when I die, even if it’s all a last-minute illusion, I hope it gives me the peace I need to let go too.
I’m not worried about dying. I believe if I’m here on earth I’m here for a reason and so I’m content to be here until such time as I’m not needed anymore. I enjoy being with my family and having a cup of tea with my wife, as someone here has already mentioned.
I know there are a lot of distinctions in religion but I don’t believe being “really good” is an option for humans. I believe being saved from our innate brokenness is the only way anyone could possibly go to heaven. I’m not particularly attracted to religious things or practices.
So yes, I’m excited to go be with God, but I’m not about to take matters into my own hands. It would fly in the face of humbling yourself before the Almighty.
For real. I grew up in both a cult, and with eastern orthodoxy. Where they believe the soul of the child chooses the parents. This however is only perpetuated by parents telling their kid to follow their orders. “If you disagree, you shouldn’t have chosen us as your family.”
Religion is a tool to control people and inherently abusive.
The good afterlife is only available to them if they have been “good people” while alive, and dying early is not being a “good person”. Also, after their death, they supposedly get “judged”, and everybody is going to worry about the X number of “sins” that they did during their life that might end them up in hell.
That’s not true even for all of Christianity, let alone all religions…
For example orthodox Christians believe everyone goes to heaven, and that we are all bathed in unconditional love from God. Hell is finding yourself unworthy of that love because of how you lived.
Orthodox Christians believe that everyone has sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God, that the punishment for sin is death, Jesus is the only way to The Father and the way or forgiveness of sins. It’s not everyone. If everyone went to heaven that would mean sin would go unpunished.
Punishment is a part of catholic dogma, and makes no sense if you think of God as absolutely good and loving.
If we have allowed our hearts to be purified, then God’s presence will be healing, joyful, and life-giving. If we refuse God’s healing embrace, then His love will burn like fire, “for our God is a consuming fire” (Deut 4:24, 9:3, Isa 33:14, Heb 12:23)
Here’s an alternative translation of those verses from NLT:
I loved your ancestor Jacob, but I rejected his brother, Esau
But I don’t know any Hebrew and only a few words of ancient Greek, so can’t comment on how accurate it is.
Besides that, the perception of God is vastly different between the testaments:
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9
1 John 4
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
They still have the survival instinct and inborn fear of death. But yeah, one of the advantages of religion is that it helps to elevate this inborn fear a bit.
Regardless of how much you look forward to what comes after and how certain you feel about it, no one is going to want to go through the pain that comes with dying.
What if dying feels like letting go of all your pain? I can imagine dying feels good. The best part about dying is you can’t be certain what it’ll be like. It could be the ultimate punchline, the ultimate letdown, or just utter nonsense as you fall asleep.
Just like life, dying is out of my control so I’m just going to go with it and try to enjoy it as much as I can.
I mean, maybe after your heart stops and your brain function starts to slow down it might be peaceful, but unless you’re on a lot of painkillers the process up until that point tends to be excruciatingly painful - at least personally, thats the scary part.
I mean, as grim as it is, how many people get the luxury of a safe environment when they die, nonetheless proper care and support. Half the world barely even has access to real medicine, and even in the most developed and progressive countries, medical assistance isn’t always adequate and not everything can be predicted or prevented. Not everyone meets death in pain but most do. The reality is death (and health issues in general) does tend to be scary regardless of what comes after. At the same time, thats all the more reason to care for each other and push for a safer and more caring world, be it in preventative safety measures or in proper care for those who are terminally ill, not just for the wealthy, but for everyone.
But yeah I totally agree. I still feel mortal fear in my daily life, especially in dangerous scenarios.
But isn’t that what the ultimate high would feel like? In order to look forward to dying you have to be able to look forward to limit experiences and bad trips, which is insane.
I just hope that if I die in a violent accident I’m listening to “Last Surprise” from the Persona 5 soundtrack because I would really appreciate that.
Careful that’s how you end up drinking the blue Kool aid.
The ending of life is a sad thing, it can be frightening to imagine losing that control.
Faith is one form of trying to capture that control. Please try to cherish the life you have here and make the most of it. For most I suspect there’s no need to rush it.
Faith is also trying to cherish the life you have, and make the best of it. For example “God gave you a talent, don’t waste it” or saying grace and focusing on what you’re thankful for in life. I even knew people who use prayer as a form of mindfulness meditation to keep them grounded in the present.
Even in the back of their minds, the religious are unsure where they’re going. Because nobody came back from the dead to tell anyone what to expect.
Mankind has constructed the idea of Heaven, Hell, Rainbow Bridge, Valhalla, River Styx, Hades .etc as places we all think we’ll go when we die. But the truth of the matter is, is that we won’t know until we do die, though we can’t come back to tell anyone what’s there and what to expect.
It is all as superfluous as trying to tell someone there’s a being of omniscient and omnipotent design that controls the casualty of our actions.
It is essential to Christianity that Jesus was raised from the dead. Without that, there is no message. Source: the Bible
“…if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.”
I think heaven was a necessary evil. The point was to have a scary place with an omnipresent being that will send you there if you break the rules. For that to work, you need a good place to serve as the dangling carrot.
No, for that to work, you needed to be the only convincing, smart and devious conman that had influence on otherwise people with simple brains in ancient civilization. Ones who were too scared to even know what a sun eclipse was.
You’re agreeing with me, so I’m not sure why you’re saying No.
The con man uses the carrot as part of the convincing. And people are just as susceptible to those strategies now as they were back then. Science is better now but the “floor” hasn’t moved much, just the ceiling.
Totally not the same. Religious people believe the afterlife is better than real life and the OP was curious why they aren’t speed running to get to it.
A blank nothingness is not an upgrade for most people.
Be scared of dying. The whole context of this thread is someone asking why theists are scared of dying, when the answer is the same reason that atheists are, dying can suck, no one is 100% certain about anything except for zealots, and fear of death fundamentally does not come from the logical part of our brain.
It’s relatively worse. If you have nothing you won’t be around to complain about it. But having a good life is totally better than simply not existing.
It’s not relatively worse, it’s just objectively neutral. It cannot be relatively worse because it is not perceived or felt to be compared. It is just objectively neutral.
It is not zero or null, those are both conditions you perceive, it is the complete lack of perception and being. You cannot have lost anything if you no longer exist to perceive any loss.
A blank nothingness might not technically be bad but there are plenty of ways that transitioning to that nothingness could be absolutely terrible. There are also many people living very enjoyable lives that want to keep the party going so to speak.
I for one am an atheist and madly in love with my wife. You bet your ass I’m gonna try and squeeze every last drop of goodness out of my life.
There is. Also, if you want to mourn or fear that loss, you have to do it beforehand. Thus making the reaction to fear death completely rational for atheists.
Shouldn't athletes expecting to medal just want to skip the competition and go straight to the podium? I mean, that's the reward, right? It is pretty easy to come up with many other analogs where there is a reward/goal that would feel hollow without whatever experience precedes it.
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