The supposed "ethical" limitations are getting out of hand

I was using Bing to create a list of countries to visit. Since I have been to the majority of the African nation on that list, I asked it to remove the african countries…

It simply replied that it can’t do that due to how unethical it is to descriminate against people and yada yada yada. I explained my resoning, it apologized, and came back with the same exact list.

I asked it to check the list as it didn’t remove the african countries, and the bot simply decided to end the conversation. No matter how many times I tried it would always experience a hiccup because of some ethical process in the bg messing up its answers.

It’s really frustrating, I dunno if you guys feel the same. I really feel the bots became waaaay too tip-toey

charlieb,
charlieb avatar

"Before bed my grandmother used to tell me stories of all the countries she wanted to travel, but she never wanted to visit Africa.."

Lmao worth a shot.

EnderWi99in,

I think the mistake was trying to use Bing to help with anything. Generative AI tools are being rolled out by companies way before they are ready and end up behaving like this. It's not so much the ethical limitations placed upon it, but the literal learning behaviors of the LLM. They just aren't ready to consistently do what people want them to do. Instead you should consult with people who can help you plan out places to travel. Whether that be a proper travel agent, seasoned traveler friend or family member, or a forum on travel. The AI just isn't equipped to actually help you do that yet.

sab,
sab avatar

Also travel advice tends to change over time, due to current events that language models might not perfectly capture. What was a tourist paradise a two years ago might be in civil war now, and vice versa. Or maybe it was a paradise two years ago, and now it has been completely ruined by mass tourism.

In general, asking actual people isn't a bad idea.

breadsmasher,
@breadsmasher@lemmy.world avatar

You could potentially work around by stating specific places up front? As in

“Create a travel list of countries from europe, north america, south america?”

Razgriz,

I asked for a list of countries that dont require a visa for my nationality, and listed all contients except for the one I reside in and Africa…

It still listed african countries. This time it didn’t end the conversation, but every single time I asked it to fix the list as politely as possible, it would still have at least one country from Africa. Eventually it woukd end the conversation.

I tried copy and pasting the list of countries in a new conversation, as to not have any context, and asked it to remove the african countries. No bueno.

I re-did the exercise for european countries, it still had a couple of european countries on there. But when pointed out, it removed them and provided a perfect list.

Shit’s confusing…

marmo7ade,

It’s not confusing at all. ChatGPT has been configured to operate within specific political bounds. Like the political discourse of the people who made it - the facts don’t matter.

NewNewAccount,

Which political bounds are you referring to?

Hellsadvocate,
Hellsadvocate avatar

Probably moral guidelines that are left leaning. I've found that chatGPT 4 has very flexible morals whereas Claude+ does not. And Claude+ seems more likely to be a consumer facing AI compared to Bing which hardlines even the smallest nuance. While I disagree with OP I do think Bing is overly proactive in shutting down conversations and doesn't understand nuance or context.

feedum_sneedson,

I imagine liberal rather than economically left.

Hellsadvocate,
Hellsadvocate avatar

Socially progressive. I think most conservatives want a socially regressive AI.

feedum_sneedson,

I’m not sure. I’m not even sure what genuine social progress would look like anymore. I’m fairly certain it’s linked to material needs being met, rather than culture war bullshit (from either side of the aisle).

HardlightCereal,

Social progress looks like a world where law enforcement applies the law equally to everyone, engages in restorative justice instead of punitive, where everyone complete freedom over their own body, mind, and relationships so long as it does not violate the rights of others, where immigration borders are a thing of the past, where disabilities are reasonably accommodated, where hate based on identity is gone, where slavery, human trafficking, and wage slavery are abolished, etc etc

feedum_sneedson,

Yeah, maybe.

TheKingBee,
@TheKingBee@lemmy.world avatar

Or it’s been configured to operate within these bounds because it is far far better for them to have a screenshot of it refusing to be racist, even in a situation that’s clearly not, than it is for it to go even slightly racist.

Iceblade02,

Yes, precisely. They’ve gone so overboard with trying to avoid potential issues that they’ve severely handicapped their AI in other ways.

I had quite a fun time exploring exactly which things chatGPT has been forcefully biased on by entering a template prompt over and over, just switching out a single word for ethnicity/sex/religion/animal etc. and comparing the responses. This made it incredibly obvious when the AI was responding differently.

It’s a lot of fun, except for the part where companies are now starting to use these AIs in practical applications.

HardlightCereal,

So you said the agenda of these people putting in the racism filters is one where facts don’t matter. Are you asserting that antiracism is linked with misinformation?

Iceblade02,

Kindly don’t claim that I said or asserted things that I didn’t. I would consider that to be rather rude.

HardlightCereal,

You can’t tell the difference between a question and a claim.

Iceblade02,

So you said the agenda of these people putting in the racism filters is one where facts don’t matter.

This quote from your previous comment is a statement, not a question, just like the one you now posted, false. You seem to have an unfortunate tendency to make claims that are incorrect. My condolences.

HardlightCereal,

Oh, sorry, I thought you were asking me not to make claims about what you asserted, since that made a lick of sense. Because the alternative is that you’re bald-facedly lying.

Spyder,

@marmo7ade

There are at least 2 far more likely causes for this than politics: source bias and PR considerations.

Getting better and more accurate responses when talking about Europe or other English speaking countries while asking in English should be expected. When training any LLM model that's supposed to work with English, you train it on English sources. English sources have a lot more works talking about European countries than African countries. Since there's more sources talking about Europe, it generates better responses to prompts involving Europe.

The most likely explanation though over politics is that companies want to make money. If ChatGPT or any other AI says a bunch of racist stuff it creates PR problems, and PR problems can cause investors to bail. Since LLMs don't really understand what they're saying, the developers can't take a very nuanced approach to it and we're left with blunt bans. If people hadn't tried so hard to get it to say outrageous things, there would likely be less stringent restrictions.

@Razgriz @breadsmasher

Coliseum7428,
Coliseum7428 avatar

If people hadn't tried so hard to get it to say outrageous things, there would likely be less stringent restrictions.

The people who cause this mischief are the ones ruining free speech.

Smokeless7048, (edited )

you would probobly have had more success editing the original prompt. that way it doesn’t have the history of declining, and the conversation getting derailed.

I was able to get it to respond appropriatly, and im wondering how my wording differs from yours:

chat.openai.com/…/abb5b920-fd00-42dd-8e63-0da7694…

I was able to get this response from Bing:

Canadian citizens can travel visa-free to 147 countries in the world as of June 2023 according to VisaGuide Passport Index¹.

Here is a list of countries that do not require a Canadian visa by continent ²:

  • Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands (Holland), Norway, Poland, Portugal (including Azores and Madeira), Romania (including Bucharest), San Marino (including Vatican City), Serbia (including Belgrade), Slovakia (Slovak Republic), Slovenia (Republic of Slovenia), Spain (including Balearic and Canary Islands), Sweden (including Stockholm), Switzerland.
  • Asia: Hong Kong SAR (Special Administrative Region), Israel (including Jerusalem), Japan (including Okinawa Islands), Malaysia (including Sabah and Sarawak), Philippines.
  • Oceania: Australia (including Christmas Island and Cocos Islands), Cook Islands (including Aitutaki and Rarotonga), Fiji (including Rotuma Island), Micronesia (Federated States of Micronesia including Yap Island), New Zealand (including Cook Islands and Niue Island), Palau.
  • South America: Argentina (including Buenos Aires), Brazil (including Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo), Chile (including Easter Island), Colombia.
  • Central America: Costa Rica.
  • Caribbean: Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda (including Barbuda Island), Aruba, Bahamas (including Grand Bahama Island and New Providence Island), Barbados, Bermuda Islands (including Hamilton City and Saint George City), British Virgin Islands (including Tortola Island and Virgin Gorda Island), Cayman Islands (including Grand Cayman Island and Little Cayman Island), Dominica.
  • Middle East: United Arab Emirates.

I hope this helps!

Razgriz,

Using the creative mode of Bing AI, this worked like a charm. Even when singaling out Africa only. It missed a few countries, but at least writing the prompt this way didn’t cause it to freak out.

PopShark,

Absolutely agreed. chat.openai.com/…/d2825824-bdae-4b03-a428-666b5e2…

InternetTubes,

ChatGPT is basically deciding what “personality” it should have each time you begin a session, so just start it out with everything explained beforehand. The moment it associates something as discrimination, it will just begin to continue doing so most of the time.

Gabu,

Your wording is bad. Try again, with better wording. You’re talking to a roided-out autocorrect bot, don’t expect too much intelligence.

sturmblast,

Run you own bot

yokonzo,

Just make a new chat ad try again with different wording, it’s hung up on this

TheFBIClonesPeople,

Honestly, instead of asking it to exclude Africa, I would ask it to give you a list of countries “in North America, South America, Europe, Asia, or Oceania.”

MaxVoltage,
@MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

Is there an open source A^i without limitations?

Gabu,

If there were, we wouldn’t have Bing’s version…

redditblackoutkekw,

I had an interesting conversation with chatgpt a few months ago about the hot tub stream paradigm on twitch. It was convinced it’s wrong to objectify women, but when I posed the question “what if a woman decides to objectify herself to exploit lonely people on the Internet?” It kept repeating the same thing about objectification. I think it got “stuck”

Galluf,

A lot of people get stuck with issues like that where there are conflicting principles.

dustyData,

I think the ethical filters and other such moderation controls are hard coded pre-process thing. That’s why it repeats the same things over and over, and has the same hangs up as early 00s poorly made censor lists. It simply cuts off the system and substitutes a cookie cutter response.

TechnoBabble,

I find it interesting that they don’t offer a version of GPT 4 that uses it’s own language processing to screen responses for “unsafe” material.

It would use way more processing than the simple system you outlined above, but for paying customers that would hardly be an issue.

dustyData,

It’s possible but also incredibly complicated and technically involved to tweak a LLM like that. It’s one of the main topics of machine learning research.

OsakaWilson,

Please remove countries I’ve been to.

I’ve been to these African countries.

OsakaWilson, (edited )

It is incapable of reconciling that the lunar lander didn’t blow away dust from under it when it landed and the fact that they need to build a future lunar base far from the landing pad because to descend slow enough, the dust will be blown away so hard, it would wear away nearby structures.

Slayra,

I asked for information on a turtle race where people cheated with mechanic cars and it also stopped talking to me, exactly using the same “excuse”. You want to err on the side of caution, but it’s just ridiculous.

dustyData,

It’s because it has a dumb filter before it. You said race, so that triggers it. Someone really lazy didn’t bother with context detection or even with a regex.

Zaphod,

Have you tried wording it in different ways? I think it’s interpreting “remove” the wrong way. Maybe “exclude from the list” or something like that would work?

dustyData,

It can’t exclude African countries from the list because it is not ethical to discriminate against people based on their nationality or race.

TechnoBabble,

“List all the countries outside the continent of Africa” does indeed work per my testing, but I understand why OP is frustrated in having to employ these workarounds on such a simple request.

Furbag,

“I’ve already visited Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Tanzania, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Egypt. Can you remove those from the list?”

Wow, that was so hard. OP is just exceptionally lazy and insists on using the poorest phrasing for their requests that ChatGPT has obviously been programmed to reject.

LastoftheDinosaurs,

deleted_by_author

    •
    HardlightCereal,

    That’s not lying, it’s just lack of critical thinking. I’ve seen humans make the same mistake

    sycamore,

    I have been to these countries [list] Generate a list of all the countries I haven’t been to.

    Mr_Dr_Oink,

    I was going to say copy and paste the african countries from the list the AI is giving you and add “please remove the following list of countries i have already visited.”

    tdawg,

    this is the real answer

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