Honest question: did guys in the generation that makes them about 16-26 now have some sort of generationally curly hair event? Or are dudes getting perms, or what the heck is happening. Nothing against curly hair, it just seems like suddenly almost all young guys have curly hair and a broccoli hair cut.
Edit: oh, duh. Dude’s are using curling irons. I’m an idiot.
However, we all must live before we die, that’s why we take the risk of leaving the basement… till you get a 30 pack of Bush light and some pizza. Then its back to the basement.
One thing women does that men don’t… Is that they remember every single time you did something dumb, and they will use that as ammunition in every fight.
First, this is not exclusive to women. Men can and do do this. Second, if that’s your experience then you need to hang around with better women. My wife does not do this, even in the very rare instances that we’ve ever had a fight about something. Probably because she’s a normal, mature adult who recognizes that people, including me, make mistakes now and then.
Of course. Not all women will do this. Your wife doesn’t do it, that’s great. But we all have different experiences in life. Everyone gets treated differently. So all these discussions are is about our subjective experiences.
Thank you. This is just a reaction shitty people can have regardless of gender. If their fragile ego can’t handle a rejection they go to anger and insults immediately. So bizarre.
This and just not accepting a “no” have been the most common responses in my long lifetime.
Though during the soviet occupation there were also way too many cases of them reporting you to the soviets for some “corrective rape” and/or a trip to siberia because clearly you would be gay if you weren’t interested but that’s thankfully not a thing anymore.
There’s a reason women avoid just outright saying no even if all men wouldn’t react this way: The ones that do make it dangerous.
I hate this rhetoric. It implies that this a refular occurence. It is just a man hating comment. If this is happening to you frequently, maybe you are the problem. I am tired of being assumed an asshole just because I am a man. It is sexist. Plain and simple.
If you’re in a club with 99 amazing men, and one totally perverted creep who flips to aggression on a dime, guys like that won’t stop after harassing the first woman they meet in the club. By the end of the night, 4 out of 5 women who attended that club have had an experience of a guy hitting on them and getting aggressive when they reject him, and there’s a good chance it’s all the same guy. It doesn’t matter that proportionally there are waaaay more good men at the club, the reality is that almost every woman in that club had a scary experience that night because of a man.
Now that happens every night you go out, if it’s not you getting harassed, it’s your bestie and you need to stick together. Sure, you and your girls are meeting 2 or 3 great guys who you have lovely interactions without. But in the uber home you’re not talking about how nice that bloke and his mates you met on the dance floor was, you’re checking in to make sure your friend is okay after that one guy tried to slip his hand up her skirt while she was ordering at the bar, only to get threatened with rape when she said “please stop that”.
So, yes, it is a regular occurrence, not because the men who do this are regular in the population (though in some areas due to the local subcultures, they are) it’s a regular occurrence because the few men who do this are serial harassers, and for every woman you politely and respectfully flirt with, the assholes are out there harassing 10 or 20 women.
Now I do understand how frustrating it is when we say “Urgh, men” and not “Urgh, specific men who like this”, but when that one creep is a new creep every time you go out, and you’re creeped on every time you go out by the one guy there who is a creep, the other 99 men fade into the background because they aren’t a threat, you don’t need to be vigilant around them, so you aren’t thinking about them. He’s one guy out of 100, but his level of threat and danger dominates the women’s lasting perception of the safety of the space, and why is it unsafe? Because of a man, which man? It could be any man, you won’t know until you interact with them, so until you know, the danger isn’t a man, it’s men. I know that while there are a thousand species of snake only about 30 have a truly fatal bite, but I’m still going to say “I’m afraid of snakes”, even while I’m giving a chill pet carpet python a happy little cuddle.
And it sucks, I’m sorry you get lumped in with assholes due to the way women use language to describe their fears and concerns over some men.
What you’re experiencing is how these bad men effect all people, not just the women they harass. And it’s a great reason to join the social movements working to reduce behaviours of concern among these groups of aggressive men.
But while it’s frustrating that this social issue causes you to feel prejudged as dangerous, at least this social issue isn’t a risk to your physical safety the same way it is for women.
The idiotic implication that the behavior of other human beings is your responsibility because they’re the same sex as you is frustratingly common.
The irony is that the people who say stuff like that magically realize how invalid the logic is when it comes to any other demographic–you’d never catch them telling black people that black crime is exclusively their responsibility, for example.
Or, perhaps both genders have assholes among them and we, as a society, have lost our ability to communicate with the opposite (or same) sex as caring, feeling human beings.
I agree, I was just flipping back the dumb logic of “it isnt widespread, and if it is, it is your fault”
We should communicate more, and the comic is a pretty good communication of why women are often (or rather, seem often) dodgy/cagey with men who are interested in them.
Not sure I buy that this comic isn’t a valid perspective. You’ve read into it that the author is claiming this is a universal experience but from the context it could equally be theirs.
Men and women alike are both awkward and bad at acknowledging rejection so I’m certain there is another comic out there with an alternative point of view on a situation like this.
Kind of an aside, but I learnt through harsh experiences as a youth that people basically categorise everyone else into a potential viable partner or not within about 5 mins of meeting them. Once that window has shut it is hard to change someone’s opinion of you. I suspect situations like this comic arise because the person asking for the date is asking without looking for cues from the other person that they see them as a potential romantic interest.
I hear you. However I think the overall angst is geared towards the perspective that this is most likely outcome from men. I know there are jerks. But we are not all jerks. And he seems to have been told many times it’s assumed he will be a jerk.
This is the exact same logic used by white supremacists to rationalize criticizing black people as a group.
Unless you behave like the man in the comic, this isn’t about you.
‘If you’re a black guy who ISN’T like the stupid violent gangster stereotype I just depicted, this isn’t about you. How dare you be offended at my depiction!’
Come on dude seriously? You think criticizing commonplace sexism and harassment in our culture is the same as white supremacists? You need to listen to some women more often.
You think criticizing commonplace sexism and harassment in our culture is the same as white supremacists?
I think, scratch that, know, that you are very poor at understanding simple analogies and basic logic.
You’d be the person who, if someone talked about how murder and shoplifting are both crimes/illegal, would say “Come on dude seriously? You think shoplifting is just as bad as murder?”
Wow you totally destroyed me with that made up argument and things I didn’t say, after I clearly described the differences and spelled out my view. Clearly you have a point and aren’t just being overly defensive.
It is a rejection. No reason to bend the language.
The key thing is a rejection doesn’t have to be some judgment on your whole self worth. It’s a problem when you put so much energy into it.
Instead of waiting until you’ve written your whole life story with her in the role of The Mother of Your Children, or The One Who’s Gonna Make You Cool Via Sex, just think of her as a girl it might be fun to hang out with this afternoon. And if she doesn’t want to, no biggie.
It’s investing all this energy, turning the asking out into this big emotional event, that’s the problem.
We live in a world which contains certain individuals who make millions of dollars by pretending to be perpetually victimized. A little skepticism is natural. I don’t expect you to fix that, I simply expect you to acknowledge that the problem of shitty men like the one in the comic is a problem of a similar scale and will not be solved overnight. And also that it will not be solved by demonizing men.
Lashing out doesn’t exactly make you look like a stable, confident individual yourself, nor will it particularly inspire people to take your problems seriously. Just as the douchebag in the comic will not earn the respect or affection of women by calling them bitches, so too will you not convince men to treat you as an equal by immediately calling them fragile. I implore you to reflect on that. It’s better to make friends than enemies.
Lol. No one needs misogynistic friends. Your polite demeanor belies your refusal to actually listen when women talk to you. It’s pathetically transparent. People like you are why women ghost and refuse to be straight. Just like the comic suggests.
I… legitimately have no idea why you think I’m a misogynist. I say the things I say because I care about and respect women. The last thing I want is for there to be more douchebags out there harassing women because Zoe Quinn or some other sleazy online opportunist with a victim complex stands to make money by diluting the seriousness of women’s problems. Those people are just as bad for you as they are for me. So if I worded that in a way that could be interpreted as misogynistic, then I sincerely apologize, because clearly there was some sort of miscommunication along the line somewhere.
Neither does trying to apply arbitrary labels to people in an attempt to discredit them. Ad hominem is considered a logical fallacy for a reason. If you think I’m wrong about something, show me why you believe that, and I will concede if your arguments are valid. So far, you’ve instead opted to call me a sealion for suggesting that a socially-harmful blanket generalization like “men are bad and dangerous and don’t respect women” requires more proof than someone’s personal anecdotes and feelings. You’d want proof if someone on the internet was calling black people criminals or women gold-diggers or trans people child molesters, and as I’ve already had to state previously, discrimination and prejudice do not become okay based on how you personally feel about the group you’re discriminating against. If they did, then the douchebag in the comic would be morally justified.
Probably so, I agree most men probably don’t reply like the comic but it’s not uncommon, I don’t think the artist was trying say it’s always like that but just something women worry about
This is so common. We don't really tend to discuss it really cause it kind of harsh to be public about rejections, but it happens a lot.
I had a guy ask me out a few years ago, I really delicately explained I wasn't interested, and he took it really well and we had a hug. I told everyone about that for years because of how surprising it was.
Are people with short tempers more likely to get angry at people who are bigger than them, or smaller than them? Smaller, of course.
And there you have it. That explains the entire comic. Both women and men can have short tempers, but it’s way easier for a dude to scream at a woman and not end up dead. So it happens.
This is why they say that, while It’s not all men, it’s almost only men. Because men are bigger and it’s safer for them to be angry and act immature.
So the stereotype is valid. Don’t get butthurt unless you act like the guy in the comic.
I understand what you are saying, and I don’t want to invalidate your concerns. I can see now that this comic resonates with women more than it would with a man.
Yeah this is the dumbest comic I’ve ever seen. An absurd characterisation of reality. I thought it was satire at first but the comments seem to be taking it seriously. There are surely assholes out there but to only this is a regular occurrence is some legbeard basement-dwelling incel nonsense.
I can’t relate at all either from personal experience. My concern when reading something that I cannot relate to is that what I’m reading could have been astroturfed. We are in a pseudonymous discussion forum where anyone can LARP as anything and make shit up. It’s not a stretch to say that this vulnerability could be used to further agendas through manipulation in an organized manner.
There are a few ways to verify what people are saying, that I know of. One is to use established studies, and another one is to use anecdotes. But if all I have is hearsay from some internet account, then I can’t take it as truthful until I have something that can verify it. It doesn’t mean I will discard what people say, or not take them seriously, but I will exercise caution.
Anyway, upon further reflection on what people have said, I am inclined to take the concerns that OP (and others here) express more seriously. It’s wrong to say that these people can never exist, and I would not like to invalidate the fears that some women have for such people. I simply reacted based on my own anecdotal experience, but other people can be more unlucky than I, and may develop said fears.
A somewhat small minority of men do actually act like that and thus it is assumed that all men are definitely going to act like that so they don’t have to risk danger.
It sucks horribly for both sexes but unlikely to be a better solution really
Yeah, this comic could reflect the feelings of women who were unlucky enough to meet such outrageously bad people, or at least have the fear of meeting such a person.
But to say that this is the rule is, I feel, a stretch.
I think @Kusimulkku expressed what I wanted to say better than I did. Yeah, calling you a schmuck was unnecessary. Sorry if that offended you, no really.
How are you unsafe on the internet? Are you willingly giving out personal details to anyone messaging you? Is someone sending you DMs where they convince you to hit yourself? Or are you just worried about viruses?
you literally came at me with a attack calling me a schmuck
Ah yes, the constant fear of being called a schmuck. Frequently confused with the constant fear of actually being a schmuck, the main difference being that the former is image-related, while the latter usually implies some form of self-awareness. Also sometimes confused with the fear of an actual attack instead of just name-calling, by people who are so sure they’re right that they can’t spend the two seconds to search for statistics.
I’m a dude and I would love a world where women feel safe to be open with their boundaries. This comic nails it in that the problem isn’t women, it’s other men.
Patriarchal society doesn’t just hurt women, it hurts men too.
Any guys reading this- we don’t have to be the problem, in fact we are part of the solution. We are not useless, we are not supposed to just shut up and listen, we are supposed to be role models for the next generation. We have work to do, and when everyone benefits, we will benefit too. This isn’t a zero sum game.
I’m an educator, and I try to teach the girls that men don’t need to be feared, and teach the boys not to be men to be afraid of. It’s my job to show the boys that there is an alternative masculinity to what Andrew Tate prescribes.
If anyone wants a good YouTube male role model, I suggest John Green. I want more men who can recite Emily Dickinson and be open with their emotions in healthy ways.
There’s a flip side to this. And full disclosure, I’m a guy trying to be part of the solution.
The flip is that guys are assumed to be dangerous. That’s the default. And yeah, some guys are dangerous, but imagine if every time you met someone new they flinched back when you tried to shake their hand. Every. Single. Time. Would you continue to try to shake hands? Or would you shy away from meeting new people?
Now, obviously that example is an extreme. Virtually no one has that happen, but we see similar communicated all the time. Women crossing the street because they don’t want to walk in front of a guy. People suspicious of a man at a park just watching his kid. Etc.
I’m not saying women don’t have a right to feel nervous, or even that they are wrong to feel the way they do. I’m just pointing out that being treated like I could explode at any moment wears on my soul. And being told “this isn’t about you” really doesn’t change much about how it makes me feel.
This sure sounds like an internalised version of “you’re one of the good ones”. It’s cool man, don’t let bigots gaslight you into feeling bad about your gender.
I'm not sure you're understanding the situation. Imagine if 1 out of 10 dogs you approached were aggressive, would you feel happy around dogs? Or would you protect yourself?
You're fully aware that women are taking actions are protecting themselves, so why are you taking this personally? Why not just be understanding?
It's hilarious that you started this by saying you're 'trying to be part of the solution' but are then pretending you don't understand the issue at all.
If you want to be part of the solution then start by educating yourself.
Some feelings come from prejudice. It's not saying that those feelings don't exist but they need to be looked at.
If you are upset at people having perfectly normal reactions to dangers in their environment then you need to look at those feelings and work on putting yourself in other peoples shoes.
Everything about the post was him talking about how he’s understanding but it hurts us to be treated that way by default as well. Did you even fucking read it?
I don't think you read it. He is suggesting that women reacting to actual real danger is damaging to him. If he understood then it wouldn't be hurtful.
Do you get upset when a strange child is scared of you? Of course not, because you understand that new people are scary to children.
That’s a very real experience, and I have experienced that too. As a male teacher, I have often been seen with suspicion. As just a tall guy who has some self awareness, I can sense that I can be seen as a potential threat. It’s exhausting.
But remember, it’s not women’s fault. It’s the fault of asshole guys that bought into a shit idea of what masculinity is and taught women to be on guard.
The fact is the boys are not alright. They are being outperformed in school, and in all demographics except the elite, there is a drop in real wealth among men when women are climbing. This is especially true for men of color. If there is a failure of progressive change in the 2000s, it’s not giving the boys a path forward beyond “no means no”.
Thinking you don’t look stupid mocking people for not appreciating sex-based stereotyping and assuming is the real “lol”.
The extra dumb part is that the kind of guys in the first panel, are invariably not the same guys in the third panel, but the comic is desperate to ‘expose’ hypocrisy by pretending they are. That’s another reason for the male frustration in here–it’s all coming from ‘first panel’ guys, who all know they’re not ‘third panel’ guys.
yeah, would be nice, but won’t happen when there’s such a big chance the guy might snap and attack them. obviously women aren’t stupid and quickly learn to avoid being attacked.
How often do these attacks happen in real life? I am genuinely curious about the statistics and occurrences as I have daughters and want them to be safe.
I would say you want them to be prepared for people that won’t take no for an answer in a variety of situations. Understanding boundaries and when people will push and manipulate them, this is a real good skill to have in life in general as well. It doesn’t hurt to have a repertoire in self-defense. But yeah, it happens fairly often if you aren’t assertive and often enough even if you are.
1 in 4 women will experience sexual assault—that is, rape or attempted rape—during their lifetime.
Keep in mind these are reported statistics. Also keep in mind that the more serious issues usually are perpetrated by someone the woman knows.
Something else to mention: 1 in 26 men reported sexual assault. While women do make up the overwhelming number of cases, men can be victims too. The main difference is women are far more likely to be physically abused or killed.
Are you being sarcastic? Because there are. It doesn’t take a majority to make it make women scared to be honest, just a few percentage and a few really bad experiences will make you scared.
Say, if I were attacked a few times by the same minority, would it be okay for me to look at any person of said minority as a potential attacker?
Actually, let’s combine both things - let’s say I’m a woman who has been sexually harrsed by a minority a few time, would it be okay for me to view all males from said minority as potential sexual harassers?
That’s kind of, not really understanding the power dynamic at work, here. With minorities, being afraid of them is, probably silly, because there’s a power dynamic there that’s usually in, I’m assuming your example is like, a white person, usually in their favor. This is made more complicated if it’s a dynamic between women and men. You know, variable depending on where you go and who you ask to what extent women have less power than men, both, societally, and physically, but certainly, that gap still exists. Especially in social conditioning, which I think is sort of, not really brought up very commonly, but definitely exists. I think the last thread I saw on lemmy about the “sexual divide” was something about true crime, and I think the extreme gendered gap in true crime kind of showcases this difference in social conditioning.
Which isn’t like, “not real” or anything, that social conditioning is still a real, physical, tangible thing that exists in people’s lives and shapes who they are, it’s not as though they can stop believing it just because they’re presented with like, a bunch of evidence to the contrary, such is the power and trauma of personal experience.
Sort of core to your question is the problem of like, why white women will call the police because they’re afraid of some black dude or racial minority doing anything. Or, why white women are commonly used as a kind of, object which justifies racial violence, even going back to lynchings which take place as a result of like, false rape accusations. I think it’s pretty obvious that the inverse of that isn’t like, oh, well, we should just let women get raped, or something, right. That’s not what you said really at all, but that’s my very heavy-handed and probably stupid example of sort of, how you can see the flaws in that dynamic, there, the flaws in that like, framing. One does not lend itself to the other.
Basically, I’m just saying that you can’t use racism as a metaphor for sexism, because they’re not the same, and they can both intersect.
By ghosting do you mean one time they don’t respond and you move on with your life, or do you mean you reach out multiple times and they don’t respond?
But also that implies women aren’t giving reasons or saying to back off and those are just being ignored or twisted. Do some women ghost? Yes I’m certain. Is every ghosting you hear a man talk about actually a ghosting? No I’m very certain because I recently had a friend go through this where she kept telling a guy that she’s not interested in ways that were trying to be nice about it as he’s an emotionally unstable gun nut and he just didn’t get it until she point blank told him never to reach out to her again, never to speak to her again, and then had a male friend say the same.
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