Teachers will be forced to tell parents that their child is questioning their gender even if the young person objects under new guidance for schools in England, the equalities minister has indicated.
I love how people who aren't part of the community think they know what's best for the community. Fucking assholes, outing kids into what could be a potentially dangerous situation, depending on the parents views.
I'd love to out their deepest, most well kept secrets, see how they feel.
It's disgusting how all these 'protections' they put in place will do more harm than good. You can tell it's coming from an anti trans standpoint as they're trying to scare people into staying hidden.
My point is that “the government” isn’t some black-box machine. The government is people. You can blame “the government” all you want, but it’s the people pulling the levers who deserve the blame. They should be named.
They’re serving both by educating. They aren’t serving by keeping secrets from parents.
The government forces us to send our kids to government run education centers at the threat of taking them from us. The least they can do is tell us what’s going on those 6-8 hours a day we are forced to give them our kids.
Weren’t you just talking about how you believe in small government and oppose authoritarianism in another post and yet here you are demanding that the government force educators to invade children’s privacy by spying on them and relaying their findings to parents?
You just linked to my comments, show me the comment were I “demand that the government force educators to invade children’s privacy by spying on them”
I never had, nor never will say that, because I think teachers should stay out of their kids personal lives for the most part. I don’t want any teacher spying exchanging secrets with kids.
Tell you what, I've been back and forth with this person somewhere else in this thread, and it really astounds me how someone could be both small government and demand the right to use the strong arm of the government to allow parents to surviel their child via their own teachers.
Then they question you because you can't prove they said that directly, as though inferring such without saying it absolves them of any guilt. Might work in court, but that doesn't work here.
I just stopped replying to them entirely as their latest comments are completely unhinged antigovernment rants and conspiracy theories plus they began completely contradicting themselves from one reply to the next, drastically changing their supposed ‘ideals’ to whatever suited their argument in that particuler moment.
This person needs intensive cult deprogramming if they’re genuine or a better job than working in a troll farm if they’re not.
No, I think things like this that can cause a potential dangerous situation shouldn't be told. Coming out about anything, sexually, gender identity etc is a personal choice. Taking that from someone is a form of control.
If a teacher tries any of this shit when my kiddo is in school, I'm gonna lose it with them. It's up to my child if and when they feel comfortable telling me those things, if they ever realise they aren't straight or aren't the gender they were born as. It's their right to choose to tell me this. Not someone else. Just because they're children, doesn't mean we have rights to know everything. Their privacy is important too. Children are people, not possessions. They deserve respect. We don't demand someone's boss tells their family if they find out this stuff. We don't demand higher education teachers of over 18s to do this either. Just because their minors does not mean were entitled to know their private thoughts and feelings. Unless a child has admitted to thoughts of suicide/ harming themselves or others, I don't believe we should be told.
If they think a child has behavioural issues that need looking into, fine. That's good information. But outing someone, no matter their age is wrong and potentially dangerous. Luckily there's parents out there who will be accepting if they get information like this. But unfortunately there's parents who won't be, and depending on what those parents are like, it could result in some seriously bad situations arising.
I know my own parent was less then impressed when she found out Im pansexual. And they tried the whole 'but kids' and 'its just a phase thing.' which isn't as bad as some people/ children would get. But being invalidated doesn't feel good, especially on something that isn't an opinion, but a fact. Being told you're wrong for your sexuality or gender identity can do a lot of damage to people.
This is stupid. It shouldn't be a thing. I'm sick of the 'but the children' bullshit the government keep pushing as a cover for wanting more control. No end to end encryption, because we want to protect the children. Our children, because we want to protect the children. Access to your private messages, the children.
It's all bullshit they use to get people on board because children are an easy pawn to use. The government's of the world need to stop using children in pawns of their stupid games and just be honest. But how likely are people to listen if they say 'we want more control' over 'we are trying to protect the children!'
If a teacher tries any of this shit when my kiddo is in school, I’m gonna lose it with them. It’s up to my child if and when they feel comfortable telling me those things, if they ever realise they aren’t straight or aren’t the gender they were born as. It’s their right to choose to tell me this. Not someone else. Just because they’re children, doesn’t mean we have rights to know everything
If the kid is socially transitioning at school, I think that falls under behavior parents should know. Same if the kids are being shitheads in class or getting beat up at recess.
There’s a gap between questioning and transitioning. Kids need people they feel safe talking to. Kids need to be able to ask questions about the world without feeling like they’ll be punished. You mentioned in other comments about programs to reduce abuse, but what about something as simple as:
Mr Teacher, I have questions about what it means to be a boy or girl. I don’t want to ask my parents because they get mad when the topic comes up on the news.
Well, little Timmy, you shouldn’t have told me that because I now need to legally tell your parents. Hope you’re ready to feel unloved just for asking a question, nerd.
There’s a gap between questioning and transitioning
If Jimmy is now going by Cindy, that’s a social cue of transitioning.
Kids need people they feel safe talking to. Kids need to be able to ask questions about the world without feeling like they’ll be punished. You mentioned in other comments about programs to reduce abuse, but what about something as simple as:
I agree they need people they feel safe talking to. Schools have counselors.
It shouldn’t be up to teachers to determine the morality of what the kids saying and whether they should share it with the parents or not.
Well, little Timmy, you shouldn’t have told me that because I now need to legally tell your parents. Hope you’re ready to feel unloved just for asking a question, nerd.
See? You have to be incredibly hyperbolic to even create a situation where it’d be bad for parents to discuss with parents about the children’s behavior.
If instead of a teacher, your kid starts going to church and has these secret meetings with pastors and priests, are you comfortable with that?
If Jimmy is now going by Cindy, that’s a social cue of transitioning.
You say I’m using hyperbole in the same comment as this. You do know it’s possible to question gender without changing your name, right?
I did use hyperbole to make my point, but only in how bluntly it would be said. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say there are shitty, but not abusive enough to lose their kids, parents out there, and I do think there are kids out there who would rather ask questions of other adults in their lives. I am making this argument about the edge cases, because I think the argument “this will only fuck over a small percentage of people” is a shit take. So is “teachers are government employees who should act as interchangable robots that kids can’t trust or confide in.”
You do know it’s possible to question gender without changing your name, right?
Yes, which is why I think it’s weird that you try to draw this line that encourages teachers to hide that from parents.
. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say there are shitty, but not abusive enough to lose their kids, parents out there,
And you think government employees should determine that simply because of their intuition? The movement from objectivity to subjectivity at the whim of the government is tragic.
I do think there are kids out there who would rather ask questions of other adults in their lives.
Therapists. Religious leaders. Aunts. Uncles.
Why does it have to be the teachers? The education system is a failure - our spending on schools tops the world. Literally 30% more per full time student than our peer countries. Our test scores are constantly at the bottom of those countries.
Then we’re being told that our schools are shitty because they’re underfunded. Then they tell us the students will do better if the teachers can teach them about gender and sexual ideologies at young ages, and have private conversations with the teachers.
Nah, dog. If our schools showed that they could teach our children math, english and science with the vast sums of money we keep throwing at them, maybe I’d buy it. But not with how shitty they’ve shown the education system is.
The unfortunate truth is that the majority of the people who voted really did vote for this sort of government. For the past 1.5 decades.
The current opposition is like the Biden alternative. I don’t have many hopes for them but we are at a stage where almost anything is better than this. The current government has been a clown show.
“Who from society” would be people like the child’s teachers, counselors, friends, relatives, mentors, etc.
Funny you mention red-herrings and extremes and then go on to talk about how we’ll all be living under a Saudi-like dictatorship if teachers don’t snitch on kids to their parents about something like personal identity.
This only appears to just be ramping up now. I really do think this is not a policy that any political party should be pushing, lest they find themselves the target of like minded people like myself. People wonder why homeschooling is becoming more prevalent. It's shit like this.
I get the feeling I’m talking to a bot with these canned responses that don’t address my comments nor the OP. Thanks for making yourself easy to identify. See ya later!
What does this have to do with “parents making decisions about their children?” What decision are they being deprived of if a teacher doesn’t report everything a child expresses at school to the parent?
For a parallel, what if the law was instead about race rather than gender? “Teachers must report white children expressing interest in talking to black children”
You: “Well what’s wrong with that? It’s muh right!”
Except that in many circumstances they get influenced to think they’re trans, and then you want your benevolent teachers to authorize cutting their junk and destroying their future just because they like pink.
And this is absolutely not an exaggeration. Don’t bullshit a bullshitter. Your issue is that you defend an ideal principle to do something extreme. Plausible deniability. Never gonna happen. People will never trust you until you stop treating trans as a protected class and more treat them like responsible adults. I’ve seen enough.
I don’t understand how you have reached this conclusion. As someone who is a member of the trans community none of these decisions you talked about are made lightly. I understand as a parent wanting to know what is going on with your child but the child’s mental state should be priority above anytime else. No one in the trans community wants convince anyone they are trans. That is something they must find on their own.
“No one in the trans community wants to convince anyone they’re trans”.
That’s the part where you’re either lying or simply wrong. This is so prevalent it’s nuts. Want examples? See Lauren Southern videos about Sarah and the teacher. Links below. Tim Pool also gives examples on grooming all the time.
This might surprise you, but we’re not stupid. We know what’s going on, and plausible deniability isn’t gonna cut it anymore. I’d die before anything bad touches my children.
I’m sorry, but I gave that video am honest listen and still can’t understand how this relates to what I’m saying. There may be instances of these incidents happening and they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. But this is an overreach of the child’s privacy which is why we’re here. One of the first thing young women victims of sexual assault say is “don’t tell me dad,” for fear of what that would mean for them at home. If a child says they’ve been having feelings that they don’t understand themselves yet and they don’t want to have their parents know, they have a reason. Not every home is safe and something like this will lead to children killing themselves. Not every parent can be trusted to make that decision to do what’s best in these situations, so we must create institutions that can at least recognize when that is necessary for the safety of the child. We are not advocating for parents to not be a part of the discussion. We want the safety of every child to be considered in this decision.
We have the same goal here of safety for children. Let’s tackle grooming wherever it is, but this won’t make the situation any better for the children who need this safety. This won’t work the way you believe it will, and we have evidence. I have way too much going on in my life at the moment to do a real deep dive to get the information you need. But I’m hopeful we can make this country better for everyone.
That is very valid. And I understand why you’d want to know anytime you can do to help your child. A hardline approach isn’t the way though. Coming out is a very personal experience and as long as your doing your job as a parent they should be willing to do that when they are ready. Another part of being a parent is allowing your child to grow no matter what that means. Instead of a beautiful tree that can provide happiness and joy for themselves and everyone around them as well, they may end up as a sad houseplant in a pot that’s too small. At the end of the day I think we have two different philosophies on life and being parents but we can find something that is more beneficial than harmful, and from a personal place this is going to have terrible consequences.
What decisions exactly? And if you so desperate to be involved in your child’s life, why do you need to rely on a third party to inform you about your own child?
I gave up teaching two years after moving to the UK, it's an absolute mess.
I can only imagine needing to fill out the "inform the parent" form and then immediately needing to fill out a safeguarding form (something you fill out any time you note anything like bruises, comments, out of sort actions, etc.). It's absolutely tragic.
Exactly. Puts you in a position where not only are you legally required to potentially put a child in direct line of fire by ousting them, you then can't then do jack about it until the situation turns visibly abusive.
I've been arguing it out with someone that safeguarding absolutely includes (or should've included) the right of teachers (or more so the school) to not disclose information that could potentially lead to abuse.
Teachers are usually the first non-parental authority figures kids will go to with these types of questions, and now they're being cut off from that safe space.
Strict surveillance doesn't raise more honest people, it raises better liars.
Imagine being a kid under constant surveillance. Boomers really are all helicopter parents if they vote shit like this through. That will fuck up their kids and grandkids big time.
Bloomers are currently aged 57-75. It’s Gen X (46-56yrs old) and Millenials (25-40yrs old) that currently have most of the kids in school. Agree with the rest of your comment though.
As a millennial with a child, I’m so glad my parents didn’t have half the shit available to them that my generation has. Even in a lot of daycares the parents can watch the CCTV live of their child. Literally just sit there at work and watch their child.
And that’s before you get into tracking when kids get phones.
Well the UK is once again making stupid choices. Hope not too many kids get hurt by this. If they are out at school but not home there is a reason for it.
If I was a parent, I’d like teachers to tell me if my child was questioning my gender. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with that kid? Do I need to run around the house naked more often?
Why would they not tell their parents? Genuine question from someone out of the loop. If my kid was questioning I would prefer I know, right? The school has the kid for the majority of their time awake during the school year. This makes sense to me.
I've been arguing exactly this with someone else somewhere in this thread. There are children who would be abused/kicked out of their home over this sort of thing.
I'd happy waiting until my child is ready to tell me to learn of certain aspects about them if it means protecting another from harm of this sort.
The problem I feel is the very parents demanding to know this information are the exact parents you wouldn't want knowing this information for their child's sake.
Because bigots have literally tortured their kids over being queer forever. Kids who don’t feel safe coming out at home usually have a good reason from fear of abuse to becoming homeless.
If the a doesn’t want to tell his parents for whatever reason yet, it should stay this way.
Honestly sounds like something straight out of Florida or parody news websites lol.
Honestly, I think the only teachers I know that are still teachers today is because they’re under the thumb of this system - specialised training that isn’t much use elsewhere, so they have to stay and continue to work in increasingly impoverished conditions.
Any teachers reading this - I’m sorry for what you have to go through, and even as a childless individual, I am greatful for the sacrifices you’re making to ensure the future of our society.
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