US jail practices are racist and an 'affront to human dignity,' UN experts say

In a report published on Thursday, three U.N.-appointed experts said they had found practices in U.S. prisons that amounted to “an affront to human dignity” in visits in April and May.

The U.S. diplomatic mission in Geneva declined to comment. The Federal Bureau of Prisons said it was committed to ensuring the safety and security of incarcerated individuals as well as employees and the public.

One such practice is restraining and shackling women prisoners during childbirth, the report said.

The experts “heard, first hand, unbearable direct testimonies of pregnant women shackled during labour, who due to the chaining, lost their babies”, it said. Asked to give details, a U.N. rights spokesperson referred to “several” cases and confirmed they all involved Black women.

shalafi,

I get a deep sense of satisfaction every time a filthy 01/06 insurrectionist ends up in prison and whines about conditions.

Suck it up, buttercup. You were loving it when you thought it was just “those people”.

PhlubbaDubba,

I’m hoping we go full German on their asses so they have to run for their lives for the rest of their miserable lives if they want to escape being jailed for what they tried to do.

thepianistfroggollum,

I’d like to see the gallows come back into fashion.

PhlubbaDubba,

That I’d actually say no to.

I don’t question some people deserve death for their actions in life, I just don’t trust everyone else with the precedent acting on that sets.

Mr_Blott,

What happened on the 1st of June?

beebarfbadger,

No idea, it’s just like people always going on about the 9th of November. Something about plane crashes i think?

unconsciousvoidling,

Hi, how is everyone doing today ?

Franzia,

I had a great fucking day today :3

Trainguyrom,

The headline says “jail” but the article only refers to cases in prisons. I know the entire criminal justice system is messed up, but did this UN study specifically find both jails and prisons to be severely repressive and racist?

This is an important distinction because jail is where people wait pre-trail, meaning they typically have not yet been found to be guilty of the charges brought against them, while prison is where people who have been charged, found guilty and sentenced to prison will go. Jail is where a cop that decides to arrest someone for dubious reasons will take them, whether that’s enforcing an unconstitutional law (such as flag desecration laws which is protected speech under federal caselaw), findings from a blatantly illegal search, or even they arrested the wrong person because they went to the wrong address to execute a warrant, or any number of other reasons

Franzia,

Do other major countries use jails the way we do? 💀

calypsopub,

That is a good distinction to make, but even convicted felons should be treated humanely.

ThatFembyWho,

while prison is where people who have been charged, found guilty and sentenced to prison will go

Not strictly true, jails can also house those convicted of less serious crimes (say, less than 1yr), as well as temporarily awaiting transfer to other facilites.

Looks like the UN only visited jails in person, but interviewed people with a range of experiences. You can read the full report here: ohchr.org/…/systemic-racism-pervades-us-police-an…

Ktheone,

YOU DONT SAY

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

Americans have no dignity, and they place no value on human life.. it's not a surprise..

Harvey656,

Ah yes, the ‘rapists are bad so let me be racist’ argument. Spectacular take.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

it's not possible to be racist toward Americans, your argument makes no sense.. you're trying to hide behind social media consensus or something, it's pathetic..

Harvey656,

Social media consensus? What in the hell are you talking about. Racism is racism, pretending it’s not is stupid. Grow up.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

What in the hell are you talking about

do your best

thepianistfroggollum,

Just a small point, it’s xenophobia, not racism. It’s all bigotry, but the distinction is important.

Also, it’s just a troll

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

lazy Americans think because you won't cater to their ignorance you must be trolling them

thepianistfroggollum,

I mean, I know you’re a troll. I’m just bored and playing along.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

you should try attacking the source of your emotional discomfort, maybe that will help.. it's what an angry 3 year old does..

thepianistfroggollum,

You’re trying to sound deep and full of worldly knowledge, but I just want you to know it’s extremely apparent that you’re a child who has no real world experience.

BigNote,

Oh good, a pompous, nonsensical, deeply condescending, deliberately inflammatory, provincial and unhelpful comment! That’s just what we need, said no one, ever.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

dignity and indignation aren't necessarily the same thing.. you are demonstrating how that is the case..

Kalothar,

“Americans bad…very bad…Bad boys. All of ‘em…just all of them are the same…surprisingly this totally doesn’t reflect my own beliefs in any way….”

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

you're a child, just like all Americans.. you want an excuse for your lack of dignity.. your absolute inability to even conceive of it..

flicker,

Does your paintbrush extend to the incarcerated black Americans who are victims of the policies observed by the UN, or do you mean a specific subset of Americans when you say these things?

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

yeah well, ask those guys how American they feel, and then come back at me

flicker,

I can't ask all of them, so I asked one, and he said that he's no less American because he's in jail.

So back to my question?

ayaya,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

It takes a special lack of awareness to make these kinds of sweeping prejudiced statements against a group of people on a post about racism.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

your attempts to avoid the reality and excuse yourself are predictable, and limited to the realm of social media.. you are social media beings.. dignity is something you must aspire to, and then express.. you can't demand it out of fairness..

Zink,

I’m not commenting to support your approach to this, but your comment about dignity hit home for me. I’m an American who recently traveled to Scandinavia for the first time. There is something wholly different about the feel of the culture over there, even in mundane everyday details. I was seeing levels of dignity and respect (for self as well as others) that I am NOT used to here.

Over here I’m used to pride, competition, and indifference to the plight of others.

Over there I observed dignity, cooperation, and well, dignity.

thepianistfroggollum,

Careful, your xenophobia is showing.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

it's not possible to be xenophobic about Americans, they have no character.. if you dislike Americans, it's because you dislike blandness, not that you're afraid of something you don't understand..

thepianistfroggollum,

That’s kinda like saying you can’t be racist against white people. You’re disparaging over 330 million people based on your hateful prejudices.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

see, you dodge the actual point, by claiming you're being oppressed in some way.. you're all the same brand of coward..

i say you are incapable of dignity, and you respond with whining.. who is winning the argument..

thepianistfroggollum,

You really need to work on that reading comprehension, buddy. It’s not whining to call someone a hateful bigot. Because, you are a hateful bigot.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

you try to shield yourself from all truth with claims of oppression or unfairness.. it's cowardly..

thepianistfroggollum,

No, I’m just attempting to point out that you’re being a bigoted asshole. It’s no different than saying all Italians are spaghetti eating mobsters.

You’re trying to disparage an entire population based on a rather bizarre and totally inaccurate preconceived notion.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

bizarre and totally inaccurate preconceived notion.

you wish

thepianistfroggollum,

Alright, what are you basing your claims on? You’re clearly not from the US, and I’d bet money you’ve never visited or even spoken at length in person to an American citizen.

WilliamTheWicked,

He… does have a point. I haven’t really seen anyone attack his premises, only the way he’s presented them. Our shanty towns grow larger and more numerous by the day it seems, along with injustices like that mentioned in the article. There are 330 million of us and we’re kinda letting this happen.

That said… psh. We could still kick his ass?

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

i'll have an order of tentative acknowledgement, with an ice cold glass of complaining about the tone of honesty, and a slice of bravado for dessert

WilliamTheWicked,

Aren’t you just adorable? : )

theodewere, (edited )
theodewere avatar

i'm gonna let you know when i need your opinion on that, sweetheart.. but i appreciate it.. i surely do.. coming from your sweet ass..

but you are entirely correct if it seems like i'm not competing for this year's Sweetheart Ribbon at the County Fair

thepianistfroggollum,

He’s not, though. He’s asserting that the actions of our government reflect the will of the people, and that hasn’t been true for a very long time.

America has a stupid amount of different cultures that influence the country, so saying we have no culture and don’t value human life is inaccurate.

WilliamTheWicked,

So, the core of his argument is clearly just a troll’s attempt to get a rise out of everyone and I don’t really want to engage any further with it because I have places to be today.

But what’s been bothering me lately is that many of us, myself included, are acting like these are things that are happening to us, as if we have no agency in the matter. Perhaps, at this point, we don’t. If the government isn’t addressing our wishes, why aren’t we fielding and voting for candidates that will?

thepianistfroggollum,

We really don’t have any agency. The federal government is set up so we’re stuck with elected officials until their time is up with no democratic way of removing them from office.

The main problem is that the people who have the highest voter turnout are retirees whose brains are fucked from years of lead poisoning, and these same old fucks are also running the country.

I mean, hell, just look at the 2016 election. The person with the most votes lost. That’s proof that the will of the people isn’t being honored even at the highest levels of government.

birdcurtains,

This just in: UN calls basketball referees racist due to their overwhelming calls against players of African American descent.

Wogi,

Let’s say that there are roughly 3 times as many black players as white players. I have no idea what the actual percentages are, but for the sake of argument let’s say the NBA is 60% black, 20% Hispanic or Latino, 15% white, and the last 5% is everybody not already mentioned.

If all players are playing roughly equivalently, but 90% of the calls were made against just the white players, would you have a problem with that? What if 95% of the referees are black?

Let’s even throw a common racist counter point in there, and say that white players are more likely to commit a foul. Say each individual white player is 100% more likely to foul another player than his black teammates are. That would only account for 30% of the fouls and yet 90% of the calls are still made against white players.

Let’s go on to say that white players are penalized so heavily that for anything that could even appear to be a foul, whether it is or not, other players go to the referee and complain about their white teammates actions. Leading to even more calls against white players.

What if just having a white sounding name like Justin or Matt was enough to prevent you from even being considered for the NBA draft?

birdcurtains,

It’s almost like they have these actual statistics on crime, but they don’t fit your narrative so they’re wrong right?

Wogi,

Because unreported, unprosecuted crimes are always factored in, of course

birdcurtains, (edited )

You’re right, violent crime is typically goes under reported in black communities. Secondly some state agencies only report crime to the national agencies at around 50%. Overall 67(ish)% of agencies across the states reported. I’m also pretty sure its just resolved crimes/situations that are reportable.

Its fucked. It should be ringing alarm bells in everyones head noticing the multiple times gap between black and non-black murder offenders is now higher then the gap between men and women offenders. Even if it is skewed, its still people being murdered in communities that need the most.

Strawberry,

this was never gonna convince the racist garbage you responded to because they didn’t arrive at their racism through reason. Their ‘misunderstanding’ of statistics is a post hoc justification for their racism. And any actual scientific analysis that disproves them would just be liberals twisting the simple statistics. As these things always go with fascists.

WilliamTheWicked,

I mean, honestly, this is a rather unfair assessment.

It’s not just our jail system. It’s pretty much the entire judicial system at every step of the way, from a traffic stop to eventual execution.

Wogi,

Stop and film.

Don’t talk to the police.

Jerkules_Jerkules,

our police/courts/corrections is an industry, unfortunately. Who knew that placing ever more profit motives on arresting, processing, and jailing people would end up leading to bad outcomes.

But, hey, it’s just the unwashed the masses, so who cares, I guess.

FARTYSHARTBLAST,
FARTYSHARTBLAST avatar

Yeah no shit lol

jjjalljs,

Unfortunately a lot of americans like it just the way it is. Nothing’s going to get better without a lot of time, or a lot of conservatives ending up in the ground

Jerkules_Jerkules,

Hey now, how am I sposed to get my vengence boner stroked if there isn’t someone’s mugshot in the news for me to sneer at?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

True about a lot of U.S. practices, especially those involving people of color.

PetDinosaurs,

I very much don’t disagree, but one of the reasons we hear about these issues in the US is that we have a much larger “minority” (meaning not the people in power, even if there is a plurality) population.

In places like South America, the Middle East, Asia, and Europe, there’s either a homogenous population where this doesn’t make sense as a criticism or it’s just not being reported on. There’s huge amounts of racism all over the world.

The US and Canada have problems, but there are going to be pains as we identify and try to correct these racial injustices.

Remember: while colonialism and triangle trade slavery were the worst examples of racism, and the West invented that, it did not invent racism.

What it did invent was feeling bad about racism and trying to improve things.

This is not to defend or deflect anything. It’s more that I find “consciousness raising” to be effective.

Franzia,

You have an okay point. Liberalism is good at advocating for certain issues, one being against racism and against the police state. I see this as an issue worth watching because the issues in some key prisons have gotten worse and more brazen in very recent years, not better.

PeleSpirit,

I see what you’re saying, but who exactly is trying to correct the injustices? We recently had a president that made it much, much worse and created new injustices. Currently, we’re just trying to bet to baseline injustices and keep our democracy.

30mag,

who exactly is trying to correct the injustices?

NAACP? BLM?

PetDinosaurs,

Me for one.

PeleSpirit,

I meant in government, there are definitely a few but they’re a minority. I like seeing you and the other poster above you calling me out, it’s nice to see.

debuglazy,

don’t worry a powerless internet user is fighting for justice

PetDinosaurs,

That’s the spirit! Give up on justice!

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I disagree. I think the reason why we hear about these stories is because the U.S. is supposed to be the ‘land of the free’ and the place for ‘your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.’ And then it turns out that no, it’s actually a shithole. And then it turns out that it’s especially bad for minorities due to whatever specific situation the story is about. So I think you’ve kind of got it backwards.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

“Shithole”?

Strongly disagree. Whatever problems the USA has, there are far more places that are far worse, and very few that are better.

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Just because there are worse places in no way means that America is not a shithole as well … specifically because it promises hope and freedom and but gives murdering cops and killer capitalism instead.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

Then all countries are shitholes and the term is rendered meaningless.

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

You do you man.

alquicksilver,
@alquicksilver@lemmy.world avatar

In this spirit, I suggest “porta-potty” country. A step up from shithole, since we have structure and something to sit on, but it’s still unpleasant and bad in many ways.

Sir_Kevin,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

“shithole” does not imply that it’s better or worse than anywhere else. It’s simply “shithole”. Don’t overthink it. The state of things in other countries has absolutely zero to do with whether or not the US is a shithole.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

So, what does it mean to be a shithole?

Sir_Kevin,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Even if I gave my opinion it would be subjective. Reach your own conclusion.

beebarfbadger, (edited )

“Better” and “worse” are such useless qualifiers in this context. If 99.9% of all people have nothing and one dude has half the world’s money, it can be the richest country in the world and statistically lead in all categories yet still have most of the population be ruined if they ever need an ambulance transport, let alone price-gauging medical treatment.

30mag,

And then it turns out that it’s especially bad for minorities due to whatever specific situation the story is about.

The first Catholic elected as President of the United States was assassinated, and no one said shit about Biden being the second Catholic to be elected as President. There were articles about Kamala Harris being elected Vice-President though. That was noteworthy because she’s a woman and she’s a person of color. Visibility is a huge factor in these stories.

PetDinosaurs, (edited )

I don’t see your comment as addressing the same thing at all.

The land of the free was never really a thing. If you are even considering that as part of the discussion, I think you’re being naive. America (us and Canada) just has a lot of resources in the sense that it was guaranteed to be a world power for geographic reasons. (“Guns, germs, and steel” is an interesting, but accessible, but also dated, discussion of that)

Any trivial understanding of US, European, or world history will show you the same. Getting people to interact well with out groups is extremely hard. especially in the event of diaspora.

My ancestors, like most of everyone poor brought to the new world, were transported here as human garbage. They weren’t taken as chattel slaves, but a share cropper or indentured servant is still not something to be admired either.

We’re talking about addressing racial issues. My ancestors were “non white” whites. They disappeared because they didn’t have an observable difference. We’re now addressing the observable ones.

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