… because my purchasing power is much lower than two years ago and my wages aren’t remotely keeping up with profiteering inflation? Because I have to be very careful around Christmas to not overspend and I get to explain to the kids why there’s only a few presents under the tree? They’ll be okay with it, but as a person who has children to take care of it, it’s crushing to go backwards year to year in what you’re able to provide? Because a 3/4 full shopping cart today (not much meat) was $179 today? And we have a fixed rate mortgage! I can’t envision the pressures people who are renting or trying to buy a home right now are going through. Anyone saying “it’s all good out there!” can get fucked.
No kids to take care of, but my fridge just went out today. This spoiled most of the food in the fridge as I can’t pick up a new one until tomorrow, and the of a new fridge and restocking my fridge pretty much cancels Xmas gifts for the family. I feel bad every year because they get my wife and I all kinds of cool stuff and it seems like every year I’m stuck telling them, “Maybe I’ll be less broke next year” Not quite the same, I know, but it still makes me feel aweful…
Meanwhile the owner of my company just bought a 5th wheel camper trailer and hitch for his truck in June because he felt like going camping, and is having a 6 bedroom house built for his son on his ranch because his sons wife is having a baby.
It’s from 1986 and not insulated well. Between that and my wife keeping the thermostat and mordor temp, and opening the fridge for long periods of time not knowing it wasn’t working, it turned into a hotbox.
This isn’t probably what you want to hear right now, but I’ve been much happier giving homemade gifts to family and friends. I found a couple of things people really enjoy that I make and they all look forward to it every year. For me, it’s pork jerky. That might not work for you because you need a dehydrator but I can post the recipe if you want. It’s a lot of work so no one ever makes it, but when they receive it for Christmas they know I put a lot of time and love in and I really think that’s what Christmas should be about. It’s really cheap… Mostly two or three large pork loins covers my entire Christmas list.
Other family members have started to do the same. My brother makes really good homemade caramel popcorn. My sister made some rum infusion to give out. Another sister even one time even made Dominoes somehow with resin.
If you are able to find time and energy to spread your love for your family and friends Christmas is a lot of fun.
This is a great idea! But I will have to go with something other than meat. A fair amount of my wife’s side of the family is vegetarian. I’m also not that great at cooking lol one of my thoughts this year was to do some of my stencil spraypaints on canvas, as I have a huge stock of canvases and spray paint I never used when I stopped doing it years ago. I just wish I had more time to create some stencils.
We hit $200 very easily just buying household essentials, it seems like. Heaven help us if we need paper towels, toilet paper, contact solution, the ‘cheap’ shampoo and conditioner, plus a few cleaning supplies all at the same time. $200 comes at you fast on those shopping days.
Dang, I was just thinking about how my mom got a raise years ago when I was still a kid and it practically changed our life. All of a sudden we were eating out more. All of a sudden we had nicer things. All of a sudden my mom wasn’t stressed anymore.
It’s sad to see how people are now experiencing the opposite of that. It’s sad they’re experiencing that when, in absolute terms, we are more productive than ever.
Greed really is the worst thing we face as a species in the modern age. It’s a shame so many people are gung-ho about supporting it.
The disparity in wealth needs to shrink instead of grow. Otherwise, these problems will only get worse over time.
People who feel bad buy things to feel better. They might not be able to afford a new house or a car or medical care, but they’ll spend something on gifts.
Also, maybe it’s members of the owning class buying things. They’re getting more money all the time, whether the economy does “good” or not. So they’ve always got money to blow on shit.
Sure, no problem. Spending rose by 7.5%, inflation until recent months was at 10%. Net real sales is down by 3.5%. People are spending more for less. This is why we are gloomy. Still, I recognize things are getting better on the macro level.
I also don’t pay taxes, maintenance, or homeowners insurance. I only have to pay to insure my things.
You can argue those costs are baked into my $1250 rent, and you’re probably right, but I guarantee it’s less than your mortgage and associated costs would be where I live.
I feel like I have been seeing the same article once a month since 2007.
A. Unemployment numbers are basically a lie at this point. The only number that comes even close to representating the situation is the workforce participation rate. Question: what percent of people are employed? Answer: what percent of people are employed. It is simple as that. If you look at pretty much every month the US hits a new low. Over a third of the adult population did not earn $20 dollars last week. There was a slight trending down right before 2007 crash but not significant. A deep dive into the numbers shows that this is not the result of retirement, it is the result of prime working age males dropping out.
B. Who cares if inflation is low at this moment? That is like arguing that everything is fine the previous 5 minutes when a car crash happened 6 minutes ago.
Peices of garbage keep telling us that everything is fine when it fucking isnt
I really like that car crash analogy or whatever you want to call it. It isn’t like sudden positive changes in inflation or job numbers magically fixes QOL for people overnight. It can take weeks…months, maybe even years (maybe even never?)
This is it exactly. Positive changes in inflation mean prices aren’t going up as fast. They’re still going up. They’re never going to go down because businesses don’t charge less when the alternative is making more money. They only ever charge more with inflation.
THIS JUST IN!People raked over coals for nearly 4 years are feeling charred!
CEO’s struggle to find uncharted adjacent talking points about the future economy as the middle class shrinks like a dick in a cold stream, as they unforgivablely pretend to scratch their heads while literally stealing babies from mothers. The statistics are IN, and they show that corporations do not care to provide safe as advertised products. Mothers, as expected, should be uneasy to have children since their offspring are not only more likely to have developmental problems due to microplastics in their bloodstreams, PFAFs in their bloodstream, and Teflon in their…um…everything… Along with the volatile markets, and sub standard pay increases that specifically affect everyone, except the A+ class that have trust fund money and live without feelings or care for any individuals, but the mothers must give birth for jesu… I mean for milit… I mean population contr…I mean moral values that age demographics that can’t medically have children uphold. Wait. I meant because Jesus. I almost had it the first time. I really meant for Jesus. He was a swell guy, as long as you don’t call him a middle eastern jew. Anyways, here’s Jim with the latest CTE-ffective tackles from last night’s game.
It also kinda glances over the fact that the boost of inflation is there permanently and this is the new baseline, and no wages have kept up to it at all while everyone is getting nickel and dimed to death.
100% this. It’s great that inflation is only 4% now, but the price of nearly everything doubled since 2019, and wages, particularly for middle class and upper middle class have not increased enough. And the modest wage increases for the poor were used to further justify the price increases. And prices never go down, because “deflation=bad”.
But, I will say that greedflation hit worldwide and the USA weathered it better than many other countries.
I don’t get this argument. If everything is greedily overpriced why not just go into business for yourself? Like if eggs are so overpriced, go buy chickens and start selling eggs. Prices will go down. Complaining about greed or expecting the government to do something won’t help anything. That’s the real reason Americans feel gloomy, they keep expecting someone else to do something, like the government or c-level executives.
I wish I lived in your fantasy world where individuals who are being adversely affected by the cost of eggs can still somehow magically not only afford the startup costs of a farm, and manage to not only sell eggs at prices beating out major agribusiness, but can also do so at a sufficient scale to affect system-level change. What absolute starry-eyed naivete.
I wish I lived in your fantasy world where individuals who are being adversely affected by the cost of eggs can still somehow magically not only afford the startup costs of a farm, and manage to not only sell eggs at prices beating out major agribusiness, but can also do so at a sufficient scale to affect system-level change. What absolute starry-eyed naivete.
You can raise chickens in about a square meter of space, you don’t need a farm…plus you missed the point, that was merely an example. Point is, stop complaining and expecting things to be fixed for you. Do something constructive.
Alright, so what individual actions are you personally undertaking to affect the kinds of systemic change we need for our economy to work for all of us? Surely if your ideology is founded on reality, you’re making real change, right?
For me, personally, I am advocating for policy changes that would benefit us. My efficacy is limited, because my only real option is to bother my elected officials about it when I’m not busy working longer hours for lower real wages just to survive, but given that I believe policy changes are the only way to actually solve any of our systemic problems, I am at least ideologically consistent.
I grow a lot of my own produce and am looking into a chicken coop, funnily enough.
I don’t expect handouts or the government to step in. My point was that I’m not gonna cheer about inflation falling because the problem is something different entirely. Inflation is just a symptom of the real issue.
You can stop being obtuse and trying to deflect blame away from greedy corpo twats whenever you’d like.
The unemployment is low because people have a gun to their head. Inflation is falling, but it’s not zero, therefore everything is still getting more expensive.
“Why Americans feel gloomy about the economy despite paying a lot more for things than the official inflation numbers claim and having a wage that isn’t rising as high as official numbers claim”
Exactly. When my benefits ran out 2 months ago, I no longer showed up as unemployed. Thankfully, I finally got a job after nine months of anxiety.
While I have a better income than before, it’s only about 10%, while prices on everything (that i need for daily survival) went up at least 20%, and food nearly doubled. No way I can get a house - those prices went up at least 40% here in the last 4 years. New car? Fuggettaboutit. Basic sedans going for 30k! Used ones probably for $24k, from what I read. Since when does COBRA at $1900 per month for one person make sense? It’s a slap in the face.
“falling inflation” means prices are still rising…the rate of increase is what has decreased. What we need is negative inflation…or said differently, price decrease.
“falling inflation” means prices are still rising…the rate of increase is what has decreased. What we need is negative inflation…or said differently, price decrease.”
Im not arguing validity, but just commenting on how i think people en masse will hear what top comment actually said.
You very well may be correct. But it requires the inclusion of wage change which the top comment didnt include. Minimum wage is a protection against employers lowering wages. So for those who are already at that minimum, they will be in a better position
Assuming they still have a job. Which im sure you would argue they wouldnt. And i wouldnt bet against you if you did argue that would happen
For every economic problem, the burden falls on the working class. Deflation makes people unhappy, high inflation makes people unhappy, and low inflation is the “best” because things get worse more slowly. Capitalism only helps workers when large enough innovations happens. Otherwise, the owners capture all the benefits of growth, or squeeze the workers to make the appearance of it.
Cool, working class people aren’t really thriving right now anyway. Maybe an economy crash could result in a restructuring of wealth and new tax policy.
What you are describing is deflation and it’s only happened twice during the history of the United States. It is also generally looked at as a bad thing.
A small amount of inflation is healthy. You REALLY want to avoid deflation, because that means the value of your money is increasing. If people know their money will be worth more in the future, they won’t spend it, incentivized to save and sit on it. That means on average everyone spends less, slowing the economy down and starting into a recession/depression.
Gonna slap this with the good old “I am not an economist” disclaimer, juat what I remember from economics class in high school
The idea is that deflation affects the investor class. Assuming a “healthy” 3% inflation rate, the value of your savings decreases by 3% per year. That means you lose money if you can’t invest in something earning more than 3%. Traditionally interest rates have been around 0%, which means bonds and savings accounts also pay 0%. So, your only options to not lose the value of your savings is to invest in the stock market, risky businesses, or real estate.
As a middle class person that means that it mostly affects my 401k, but for millionaires and billionaires, deflation means that they would sit on their hoard instead of investing it. Traditionally that means no funding for new businesses, inventions and ideas, and that’s also why the investor class pays much lower taxes than the working classes.
But nowadays “investment” seems to mostly be buying good companies and enshitifying them or bribing politicians, so maybe it would be better if we encouraged the rich to sit on their money instead of using it to make society worse.
Only problem that right now people also may decide against buying because they can’t afford it. Also, I’m not sure world is producing goods at a healthy rate either, more like we’ve got a bit of an overproduction
Japan has been struggling with deflation (=decrease of prices) for a good 25 years now… you really don’t want that happening. Ideally you want something around 2% inflation.
You also shouldn’t purchase, since goods will get cheaper over time. Also don’t take loans for the same reasons. Basically you should take your money in cash and sit on it.
Those are considered inelastic goods, yes. They are also way too small an amount to keep an economy going. Most things we spend money on aren’t like that, and demand going down like so will affect markets; companies not producing necessities or for export will fold if it lasts too long, etc.
You don’t actually want that. It encourages people to “invest” by sticking hard cash in a mattress. It rewards people for doing absolutely nothing but taking money out of the economy.
Ideal (if we’re keeping a monetary exchange society, anyway) is low (<3%), predictable inflation combined with wages increasing in proportion to productivity. We had a period of relatively low inflation followed by a giant spike, plus wage gains that are nowhere near matching productivity gains over the last 50 years, and that’s where things hurt. Capitalism doesn’t seem capable of this, however, as it’s always chasing the next hype cycle that leads to these spikes and lulls.
Deflation is a death spiral. China is going through it rn. The currency gets stronger, but then people wait to buy stuff like houses because it will be cheaper in a few months. It creates a snowball effect as people all start holding off on buying and selling stuff, wanting the best deal possible, or then being unable to buy things if people hold off on selling.
No one is asking for deflation. They’re asking for wages that don’t decrease every year due to inflation and companies not giving raises or giving raises so small that it’s still a pay decrease since it’s not keeping up with inflation.
Wages are now out pacing inflation. So it sounds like you’re saying your gloomy about the economy because the president hasnt come in and forced your boss to give you a raise, or hand you a different job with more pay.
Most of the places around me pay way less than the actual cost of living, like the average is maybe $12 an hour max but I’d say it’s more like $10. Cost of living estimates vary but for a single adult it’s often around $2500/month, which is far more than you’ll make working at almost anywhere here full time. Even worse, most establishments are actually choosing to short-staff themselves to save money, so most aren’t even looking to increase employment.
So you can work full time and still not have enough to just survive, then if you want to do university/trade school and aren’t elligible for e.g. HOPE then you could have to pick up 2 full time jobs and still somehow have the time/energy left to do college (which most people wouldn’t after that and would just drop out). Some people are able to live with family to reduce or eliminate the housing cost, and a few people are privileged enough to have their family pay for their whole college, but if that’s not the case you’re completely fucked.
And this is in suburban/rural Georgia. I can only imagine how shit it is for someone who can’t afford college, a car, whatever else in a shitty place like Texas or Florida.
“Mathematically impossible” my ass, everyone commutes 2 hours to the nearest city because work outside of urban areas is unsustainable. And no, the county has had a steady high growth rate for around 3 decades by now because of the prestige from Atlanta rubbing off + low cost to buy a house make Georgia seem appealing to middle class people, and aggressive advertising by the county makes people move here, it’s not “dying”.
“Local standards of living” are what I gave you, that’s what statistics say. If you don’t like science you can just say so. Hell, it’s not that hard to just Google “median income in Georgia” (spoiler alert: median personal income is $30,000, which is very clearly unsustainable).
In this day and age, it’s near impossible to survive out of school if you don’t have family willing to pay for you. Hell, if I didn’t have family to fall back on I would probably have been in the streets starving rather than be getting my degree.
One of the things that frustrates me the most about this site (and reddit but it seems even worse here) is the inability of people to follow the context.
The article is about how people, wide spread, are rating the economy as poor despite good economic data. The top level comment is talking about not wanting deflation, but rising wages so they don’t lose out to inflation. I point out that wages are rising and outpacing inflation, so by the metric they used the economy is doing well. Then someone inexplicably brings in the minimum wage (FTR, “Workers in the bottom pay quartile also saw median “real” income gains of 6% since 2019, more than the rest of the income distribution.”[reuters.com/…/us-job-market-softens-gains-minorit…] But who cares about the facts? They don’t really mean anything anymore.). I point out that this isn’t about the minimum wage (BTW, I agree that it should be raised) and people still go off on how in their anecdotal experience minimum wage is not enough to get by.
It’s like anything to ignore reality. It’s the same ridiculousness I see from conservatives when I’m debating climate change: just ignore the facts, cherry-pick some data, throw in some anecdotes, and try to reframe the debate.
It’s the subjective experience of not seeing the wage growth themselves, combined with things not being acceptable for a longer time than Biden or Trump’s presidency. Things are improving right now, but haven’t caught up to people having economic security. When you’ve sunk deep enough, it takes a longer period of rising to finally catch a breath. Basically, the current growth must sustain for longer to get more people into a good position. If things continue on their current path, people will calm down.
It’s also true that necessities like housing have inflated in price far faster than other goods, again, for longer than a decade. Unnecessary goods might be cheaper than ever, but you NEED things like shelter and there are NO alternatives. Despite good competition, the demand is inelastic, so limited excess supply translates to soaring prices, plus, other factors are at play.
It also isn’t a good idea ignore subjective experiences in general. Not only are people almost always right to be unhappy on some level, invalidating their lived experiences isn’t a good idea. Democrats will not be successful if they don’t listen to people’s displeasure. Basic economic measures are essential, but not sufficient to make voters happier.
There’s not much I disagree with in your post. However, this all stems from a poster saying that (effectively) they don’t want deflation, but for wages to out-pace inflation, and I pointed out that this is already happening. By their own metric they should be happy with the economy, even if they haven’t personally benefitted from it, but instead they are unhappy with it but that’s based on a false belief.
It also isn’t a good idea ignore subjective experiences in general. Not only are people almost always right to be unhappy on some level, invalidating their lived experiences isn’t a good idea. Democrats will not be successful if they don’t listen to people’s displeasure. Basic economic measures are essential, but not sufficient to make voters happier.
And this is basically what the article is all about, that the economy is actually going in the right direction, but everyone thinks it isn’t. Spreading the false belief that we are still in situation where inflation is out-pacing wages is just further spreading the false belief that is making people upset. I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation, but being constantly grim about the state of the economy for bad reasons isn’t helping anyone. It’s probably just making it worse.
And this is basically what the article is all about, that the economy is actually going in the right direction, but everyone thinks it isn’t. Spreading the false belief that we are still in situation where inflation is out-pacing wages is just further spreading the false belief that is making people upset. I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation, but being constantly grim about the state of the economy for bad reasons isn’t helping anyone. It’s probably just making it worse.
Okay, so this actually misses how this “false belief” has spread.
The thing about inflation is it doesn’t go away when it goes down. There hasn’t been deflation, so when prices rose they just stayed high even as inflation cooled. It doesn’t matter that prices aren’t rising as fast as they were before because the prices are still high. Wages, on the other hand, lagged behind inflation for so long that they’re still behind even if the rates are more even now. This has to keep up for several years to give wages have time to catch up; until then people are still going to be mad about inflation even if it is getting better.
Wages, on the other hand, lagged behind inflation for so long that they’re still behind even if the rates are more even now.
This is what I meant when I said:
I get that people still have a ways to go before they make up for what was lost to inflation
But, again, the claim is that they just want wages that won’t be beaten by inflation (again, effectively) and that is the case now. So what they want is what is happening now, yet still unhappy. Your post is a movement of the goal-posts. I get it that it still sucks, but we’re going in the right direction, especially on the point they made. This should result in a more cheery-outlook for people basing their opinion on wages out-pacing inflation.
They want the pain to stop now. That’s my point. Only people with a financial cushion can sit around and wait for things to get better, everyone else is suffering. People are not going to be patient for relief.
It’s the fine line of not saying people are correct in their specific criticisms, while still validating their lived experience. I don’t expect most conservative liberals to do this, but Democratic politicians must to win elections.
Sure, but people should also try to be accurate when they are making claims as to why they are upset with the economy, especially if they are making a very general claim as to why people are upset.
I’m coming late to this rodeo. I see minimum wage as relevant if the recent statutory raises of the minimum wage are behind the “wages are rising faster than inflation” point. I need to see a distribution chart showing which raises are rising faster, because a lot of pay went from $10 to $15 in the last few years, and that’s a 33% pay increase for those people. What if the people earning between $30 and $60 saw no raises, or worse, lost their jobs and got new ones for less?
Just like when massive unions get better pay rates (or weekends) it raises the bar for what all other workers expect, except the min wage has MORE effect since it applies across all employment.
And $7.50 is a pointless figure to use as representative of minimum wage. When established, the minimum wage was equivalent to $26 today, and most states had higher minimums even before they went up to $15.
Your number leaves out all of the people whose pay rates are above minimum wage, but are still poverty wages. There is quite a large gap between minimum and poverty, and not in the direction that benefits the working class.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises. People can and do benefit tremendously from the minimum wage being raised, even if they have never personally worked at minimum wage. As such, the minimum wage is relevant to far, far more workers than are actually getting it.
Your number leaves out all of the people whose pay rates are above minimum wage, but are still poverty wages.
This is because minimum wage has nothing to do with this discussion
This is my original point.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises.
They’re already getting raises because wages are up across the board. There are two jobs for every person right now and that isn’t likely to change for a long time.
I’m sorry, how in the fuck is the minimum wage not related to the fact that rising prices and inflation are causing people to struggle financially? That’s like saying the tides have nothing to do with surfing.
And sure, wages are up, the problem is that if you bother to account for inflation and COL, the purchasing power they provide is down. That’s what people mean when they say “real wages.” I’m sure you know that on some level, even if for purposes of this discussion, you’re pretending not to.
I think you’re pretending not to understand the relevance of the minimum wage because two comments ago I said this:
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage leads to people in that gap also getting raises. People can and do benefit tremendously from the minimum wage being raised, even if they have never personally worked at minimum wage. As such, the minimum wage is relevant to far, far more workers than are actually getting it.
While it’s true that less than 1.3% of people make minimum wage, it’s important to recognize that the minimum wage sets a baseline for the broader labor market. Even though a small percentage of workers are directly affected, the minimum wage often serves as a reference point for wage negotiations and can have a cascading effect on wages above the minimum. While the direct impact may be limited to a specific percentage of workers, the broader implications of minimum wage policies are relevant to a much larger economic context.
I mean, at least you acknowledged that I said it this time. Even if I’m now slightly less convinced that you deliberately aren’t getting it, because you still didn’t seem to understand what I was actually arguing.
They say it takes exponentially more effort to debunk bullshit than it does to spread it, and when I’m making a real effort to make a point and your rebuttal is basically “nuh uh,” that seems to hold true. Fortunately, I don’t have to type out the argument myself when I can just post Charlynn Teter’s excellent essay, sources included, about it instead. bpr.berkeley.edu/…/no-more-lies-the-truth-about-r… I look forward to how you “nuh uh” this.
First, and least important (but still important), this article is out of date
In California, 96 percent of workers who would benefit from the proposed minimum wage increase to $15 are over the age of 20, and 58 percent are over the age of 30
This data is not accurate after wage increases
Second, this article has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. I have nothing against raising the minimum wage. I think it should be tied to local cost of living and reassessed every 2 years.
What we’re talking about is that raising the minimum wage would not provide the price pressure on the labor market you think it will, because there are already more jobs than people and wages are already rising as a result (though slowing, in which case your argument may someday become relevant again).
The market is unlikely to shift away from labor for over a generation, barring some ludicrous advancement in AI and robotics. Our population is shrinking while our economy is growing. That’s bad for employers in price-sensitive markets but great for literally all employees (until they get old, but whatcha gonna do).
Raise the minimum wage. Go nuts. It won’t affect average wages in any significant way, because not enough people are on the minimum wage.
I appreciate that you want more frequent adjustments to the minimum wage. I am in full agreement. I think it should be assessed on a national level more so than local, because making it piecemeal like that leaves lots of open opportunities for bad actors to exploit it (think gerrymandered congressional maps), but I do appreciate that as far as that goes, we are largely in agreement.
That said, Teter’s essay addresses most of the other claims in your comment, with both argumentation and sources. Maybe you should read more of that and try addressing some of her other rebuttals to your points, rather than just ignoring them and repeating yourself endlessly? Then you might at least look a little bit less disingenuous.
This does not imply a lack of wage growth, quite the opposite.
Literally the first sentence
Wage growth has been a bright spot for workers (and perhaps a challenge for business owners), but not when measured against inflation.
Whether or not it’s enough wage growth isnt what were discussing. I’d love to see wages rise more. This growth means raising min wage won’t do much tho.
What’s the point of discussing if wages have grown without factoring in inflation? If wages increase, but inflation increases by the same amount, then leaving out the latter when arguing the former seems a little fucking dishonest, no? And of course it didn’t occur to you to read past the first sentence to see where she makes that exact same point… or you deliberately ignored it to keep doubling down on the points I’ve already debunked.
And you’ve also admitted that there are still workers making the federal minimum wage, so it doesn’t seem like this wage growth you think is such a trump card has been benefiting them at all. As I pointed out earlier, a third of the workforce is making less than $15, meaning that all of them would get a pay bump from raising the minimum, not just the ones who are already on the minimum wage. I have made this point multiple times and you still refuse to acknowledge it.
Honestly, you’re arguing dishonestly enough that I straight up don’t believe you when you say you’d love to see wages rise more.
I’ve been retreading the same ground because your argumentation strategy has just been to double down on your original points while ignoring my rebuttals. Which makes it fucking rich of you to accuse me of “not being interested in examining this discussion in any meaningful way.” Imagine what I could achieve with that level of absolute brass balls.
That dude is a troll. What you described is his typical M.O. He never responds to anything that threatens his preconceived and often poorly formed opinions.
Oh and he’s a frikkin Nazi in every way except for having a fuck doll with hitler’s face on it.
You are ridiculously uninformed while being supremely overconfident in your baseless opinions.
Giant fuckin oof on your part.
Here’s a simplified explanation of how the minimum wage can affect the labor economy:
Employment Levels:
Effect on Employment: When the government raises the minimum wage, it can lead to increased labor costs for businesses, particularly those in low-wage industries like retail and hospitality. This can result in a reduction in the demand for labor, as some businesses may cut jobs to offset the higher costs.
Effect on Unemployment: Critics argue that increasing the minimum wage may lead to higher unemployment, especially among low-skilled workers. Employers facing higher wage costs might be less willing to hire or retain workers, particularly those with fewer skills or less experience.
Wage Distribution:
Positive Impact on Low-Wage Workers: On the flip side, proponents of minimum wage increases argue that it helps low-wage workers by providing them with a higher income. This can contribute to poverty reduction and improve the standard of living for those at the bottom of the wage scale.
Potential Compression of Wage Structure: However, some economists caution that raising the minimum wage might lead to a compression of the overall wage structure. If the minimum wage increases significantly, there could be a ripple effect causing a narrowing of the wage gap between low-skilled and higher-skilled workers.
Inflation and Prices:
Inflationary Pressures: An increase in the minimum wage can contribute to inflationary pressures. As businesses face higher labor costs, they may pass on these costs to consumers through higher prices for goods and services. This, in turn, can impact the purchasing power of consumers. Productivity and Innovation:
Incentive for Productivity Improvement: A higher minimum wage can create an incentive for businesses to invest in productivity improvements and automation to offset increased labor costs. This can lead to advancements in technology and innovation in the long run.
Regional and Industry Variances:
Differential Impact: The impact of changes in the minimum wage can vary across regions and industries. In areas with a lower cost of living, the same increase in the minimum wage might have a different impact compared to higher-cost regions.
The effects of minimum wage changes on the overall labor economy are complex and multifaceted and to offhandedly call it “NOT RELEVANT” is beyond moronic.
Might be time to go back and look at your highschool econ homework.
It’s like the 3rd or 4th time I’ve explained this with increasing levels of detail.
Dude is just a ficking moron IMO and completely dishonest in how he discusses topics. He just ignores anything that might show his view to be the slightest bit incorrect and barrels forward… Or he’s a chat bot.
It’s at least a little bit interesting IMO that this is something of a pattern I’ve noticed. I had plenty of stupid arguments on Reddit, but at least those ones would change over time as new information was introduced and responded to. Here, it seems way more common for people to just ignore your rebuttals to their points and just repeat them without adding anything new. Are people here just more stubborn, or what?
Dude, that is the federal minimum, which hasn’t been raised in over 30 years. The states had minimums closer to $10 to $12 in the last 20 years, and many went up to $15 in the last 3 years. That is still much less buying power than minimum wage was at its establishment.
I’m here to help and provide information or assistance on a wide range of topics. If something seems weird or if you have a specific question or topic you’d like to discuss, feel free to let me know, and I’ll do my best to assist you!
If someone is claiming that the rise In minimum wages in many states does not impact the “wages are growing faster than inflation” assertion, it is entirely relevant as many of those people saw a 33% raise over the last few years, and that is way more than 1.3% of wage earners.
Wages may be outpacing inflation, but so have prices for a long time, and wages haven’t reflected increases in productivity since around the 70s or so. In about 2015, I remember looking up some statistics and finding out that wages for the average worker had decreased about 5% since the 70s while CEO compensation had more than doubled, when you account for inflation. The most absurd example I can think of off the top of my head is that, when adjusted for inflation, the cost of a taco from Taco Bell has doubled since the 90s. There’s some great comparisons out there, but some stuff has increased at more than double the rate of inflation since the 80s, with the biggest offender being the cost of college, which has increased by something like 1,153% (if I remember right, it’s been several years since I’ve looked at those statistics).
Plus, local conditions never reflect the national averages/medians, so there are probably areas and industries that are seeing massive booms in wages and work to life balance and such, but there’s others that aren’t and some areas where even booming industries are seeing a decline. The IRS report for 2021 says that 51% of Americans made $15,000 or less that year. During my 20s (around the 2010s), I made $20,000-$30,000 a year working at a local fish market. This would put me probably somewhere around the top 45% of Americans by annual wages comparatively, but due to the high CoL in my hometown, I couldn’t afford to rent a studio apartment. The lowest rent I found in that time was a single room in somebody’s house with “occasional kitchen access” for $1,000 a month. Studio apartments started at $2,000 a month. The average American has something like $20,000 in their bank account, while the median American has $600.
I’m reminded of all the articles I see about people spending their “pandemic savings” where I think to myself, “What savings? The $1,000 check we got that some idiot of a politician said that everybody would be using to go buy a brand new car? 2 years ago they were talking about how we had all gone through the majority of our savings just to keep up with CoL increases.”
Those charts are federal data, and you are correct about the winners of productivity gains. I can tell you why “wages are going up” - many states raised minimum wages from as low as $10/hr to $15, over a period of 3 years. The working poor got raises and are still working poor. Also, these people can’t save their raises. They spend them on basic necessities, so there is a good chunk of economic growth right there. That’s an example of an economic multiplier effect >= 1.0.
Yeah, the “fight for $15” has been going on so long that if minimum wage had kept up with inflation, it would be more like $24-30 an hour now. Just another example of people twisting the numbers to show the conclusions that they want.
“most prices are high and still rising” Pretty obvious that corporations are price gouging to get their friendly fascist lifetime dictator back in power.
My son graduated with a degree in economics in 2020 and still hasn’t found a job. He’s not counted in the unemployment numbers because he hasn’t filed for benefits. We need to look at labor participation as well as underemployment instead of the useless stats being used in this article. Real wages have tanked. People are running up debt just to buy groceries. It’s desperate out there.
In the Current Population Survey, people are classified as unemployed if they meet all of the following criteria:
They were not employed during the survey reference week.
They were available for work during the survey reference week, except for temporary illness.
They made at least one specific, active effort to find a job during the 4-week period ending with the survey reference week (see active job search methods) OR they were temporarily laid off and expecting to be recalled to their job.
There are other statistics measuring unemployment claims, but when you hear, “the unemployment rate for Oct 2023 is 3.9%”, that is unrelated to benefits.
Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that when the economy restabilizes, that doesn’t mean the cost of consumer goods go down or wages go up, it just means the billionaires running the show aren’t losing millions
Add comment