Dontsendfeetpics, (edited )


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  • disguy_ovahea,

    My jaw dropped when I got to that part too! That’s a 4x value payment on a 5/yr loan! Beyond disgusting tactics needed to get someone to in go for that. It’s absolutely predatory.



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  • disguy_ovahea,

    You may be more savvy than the average customer, or haven’t met a truly cunning salesperson. I’d guess if you’re able to articulate that, you’re probably not the target customer.

    You’d be so surprised at how often people just look at the payments.


    Aaand it’s gone. The whole comment. It’s gone.


    He quoted the part of the article that stated a customer unknowingly purchased a Jaguar with 75% APR.




    I’ll line up with everyone else who wants to tar and feather most car salesmen as scam artists, but surely there should have been red flags


    Love this comment because you actually read the article, unlike some other commenters…


    The rise of

    Reading the article, it sounds like the exact scam that was parodied in GTA V almost 15 years ago. I imagine this is not a new problem. Maybe the rising interest rates made it even worse?


    This article pisses me off. Back in late 2020 I went to a dealership to buy a new car, very high credit score, 1/3 cash down, and qualified for a 0% interest deal that was going on at the time.

    The dealership came at me with the most bullshit offers, tried to get me to take dealership financing at 4%, then 3.5, then 3% at a longer loan duration and acted like they were doing me a favor the whole time. Finance guy was being such a dickhead about it even the sales guy started getting pissed at him.

    Took nearly 6 freaking hours to close the deal. Finally got my 0% offer and expected financing/cost because it was 20 minutes to closing time and I was like “fuck it, I’ll go check out your competitors tomorrow,” keys in hand, walking out the door. Sales guy literally chased after me and stopped me at the car to say the finance dude finally caved.

    Fucking scumbag stuff. Dealership changed their name a year later and I don’t wonder why.


    And then you kept walking because fuck those guys?


    Nah, I bought it because there wasn’t going to be a better deal, I did my research for weeks and months prior and that 0% popped up in the middle of reviewing options.

    I think they tried the push because it was the last day I could get it before the deal expired. The zero % financing was via the manufacturer, not dealership.


    And they make less money on that than the dealer financing options. No surprise they were being pushy about it.


    I mean, I was already preapproved for a 2.5% loan and qualified for the 0% offer, made that clear. I was very up front there would be no dealer loan.

    I made it dirt easy, like “I’m qualified for this zero interest deal, I’m willing to pay up to $10k in cash up front. Make it happen for $300 a month or less with those terms and you have a sale.”

    They still fucked around so hard. I really was ready to walk out empty handed, they made the deal literally with me unlocking my old car to leave.


    I admire your patience. I would have walked out an hour in.


    I had really specific requirements on the car in terms of capability and price since I was moving to a rural area and my old car was a 14 year old Hyundai Accent with bad suspension. Didn’t want a truck or anything too large, but needed a car that could handle some off-road and country roads, and had around 7" or better clearance, and couldn’t have a dual clutch transmission (either traditional or CVT with no dual only). Basically it came down to the Honda CRV, Kia Sportage, and Toyota RAV4.

    CRV was my first choice, but its front bumper rides low, reducing it’s clearance below the frame height, it can’t even get over low objects. RAV4 was ideal, but like… $8k more expensive than the sportage, at the time the sportage was just under $24k new (crazy, since I was seeing used ones with up to 45k miles going for $27-28k).

    So, I was sold on the Kia and just considered it kind of around my hourly rate. Even if it took all day, I was saving minimal $8k compared to my next best alternative and my hourly rate at the time for work was like $42. Even if the prices were the same, just factoring the 0% finance deal when my best pre-approved loan rate was 2.5% would save me well over $1k on the life of the loan, and around $400 in just the first year, so I figured it was totally worth a few hours of haggling and stalling on them.

    When I moved I bought some nice all-terrain tires (Nitto Nomad Grapplers) for a few hundred bucks and it’s been solid. No complaints, decent performance, and I don’t get stuck in the mud at all. :)


    0% interest rate is usually given in lieu of a cash back offer. So, you could get like $2500 cash back and a 4% interest rate or a 0% interest rate with no cash back.

    My strategy would be to take the cash back, take the dealer loan to reduce friction, and then refinance immediately when you get home at a lower rate.


    0% was a brand-wide deal (manufacturer, not dealership) to get rid of previous year stock, there was no cash back option on it. Plus, there’s no lower rate than zero, and best I could get with a different loan was 2.5%. Though I did reference said pre-qualification during negotiation when they made the crap offers. Made it clear I wasn’t walking out with a dealer loan.


    How do you refinance? I was always curious about that. I’ve checked banks and my credit union but they always came in significantly higher than dealer loans, even if I chose the cash back


    All Carsalesmen Are Bastards.

    Defund the dealerships.


    No fan of Musk, but this kind of shit and other scams are driving me towards companies like Tesla that are using a direct sale model.

    Subaru dealers lied to me about the engine I was getting, said the head gasket issue was fixed. Turns out it was fixed, just not for the model of engine that was in the specific car they were selling me.

    Then a different dealer did the head gasket job, thousands of dollars, and now they’re telling me it needs to be done again four years later for another 5k.

    A local Chevy dealer was screwing over their employees with wage theft by agreeing to give raises and then quietly taking them away later.

    Fuck them all to hell, small business my ass. If you have to spend millions lobbying your state government to make direct sales illegal, I’m going to do everything I can to avoid giving you my money.

    kbin_space_program, (edited )

    Preapprove loan in the range you want from your bank.
    Agree in writing on car price.
    Get loan from bank.
    Pay for car
    Pay back bank.

    Edit: to be clear, when i say Bank I only mean Credit Union.

    FlyingSquid, avatar

    You say that as if banks are on your side.

    Banks aren’t credit unions.


    True. The banks are at least marginally more on your side than car dealerships though.

    I've only ever banked at credit unions.


    Additionally, if you can get your down payment/trade-in to get your car off the lot with equity then you’ll get a lower interest rate. When my ex and I bought her new car a few years ago we incidentally did that (total value between the down payment and trade in was something like 10k on a 23k purchase) and we were pleasantly surprised to see a full percentage point lower on the loan.


    I’m looking to buy a new car, went to the bank for a loan, they said they’d only do a car loan if I bought a car that was less than 3 years old. Are you kidding me? My current car is from 2004, I’m hoping for an ~$8k 2012 or something…


    My last car purchase I was thinking similarly, I ended up with a '14 with 80000km on it. Bank said “we can’t give you a loan for that, but we can up your line of credit and you can use that” …


    Yeah, good credit history is vital here, but in a similar case, my credit union wouldn’t write a car loan, but approved a “signature loan” for similar interest rate

    Given the anecdotes in the article, I have credit cards with lower interest rates, so that would be tempting. I mean, I’d never do that since it’s a stupid idea but it would be better


    I worked at a place (not cars) that offered a rent to own option and I always made sure I explained exactly how much more it would cost to do that option and that they should check with their bank/credit union to see if they could get a better rate. Technically the rental company was a separate company but the two people who ran it sat directly behind me and they never said anything.

    jballs, avatar

    I recommend that anyone buying a car that they’ll have to finance bring in a laptop with an amortization schedule up and ready to go to the dealership. Dealers don’t want to talk about the total cost of the car. They only want to talk in monthly payments. They’ll sometimes offer cashback in order to get you to agree to a higher interest rate. If you don’t have an amortization schedule handy, you’re not going to be able to do that math and figure out if you’re getting a good deal or getting scammed.

    If you don’t know what an amortization schedule is, then Google it and play around with one before you go in to buy a car. You only need to plug in a few variables - purchase price, number of months for the loan, and interest rate. That will allow you to see your monthly payment and what you’re paying in interest.

    If you can’t do that simple thing, then don’t finance a car.


    Probably the most valuable thing I learned in school was how to build amortization schedules. I’ve used it on vehicles, student debt, and mortgage. It’s really helped me win the “stop paying unnecessary interest to others” game.

    jballs, avatar

    Same here. I’ve forgotten probably 90% of what I learned in school, but amortization schedules have stuck with me because they’re such a necessary part of life.


    you don’t even need a laptop for that nowadays; you can pull up such a thing directly on your phone.

    jballs, avatar

    True, but in my experience a laptop forced you to take your time a bit and see the bigger picture. Also it lets the dealer know that you are not fucking around.


    I knew this big clunky ass gaming laptop would come in handy someday. The RGB lights really communicate that I’m no man to be trifled with

    jballs, avatar

    Hell yeah. You see a man with RGB and you know he means business.


    In response to an article about how poor people are trapped by loans… you recommend that? Really?

    jballs, avatar

    Absolutely. Did you read the article? The people interviewed explicitly say that they don’t know anything about interest rates and how financing works. One guy had a 75% interest rate because he apparently had no idea what that meant he would be paying , which is several times the price of the car.

    If you’re going to finance a car, you need to arm yourself with the tools to figure out what that is going to cost you. Go in prepared. Don’t count on the dealer telling you the numbers, because they are not on your side. They are trying to hide that information from you to get you to agree to something for their benefit.


    Poor uneducated people are being oppressed by corporate shills… Best you got it "learn the rules of the game: basically?


    Educating people is a lot easier than fixing the system. No reason we can’t try to do both.



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  • Shiggles,

    I suppose I simple wasn’t pedantic enough for you- posting a comment educating people and trying to fix the system are not mutually exclusive.

    You’re not wrong, you’re just arguing against a point you made up and doing so like a prick.

    jballs, avatar

    You’re oddly hostile for a post where I offered advice. Obviously we’d be better off if there were strong protections in place. No one is arguing otherwise. I offered practical advice that you and your loved ones should follow to protect yourselves and you act like I’m saying the system is perfect and nothing should change.

    If you posted an article about people were dying in car crashes and I said to make sure you wear a seatbelt, you’re acting as if I said we shouldn’t continue to try to make travel safer. Wear a seatbelt! And make sure you know how finance works before taking out a loan.


    I think the advice is really “at least google it before signing a contract”.

    Dontsendfeetpics, (edited )


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  • NewNewAccount,

    Well I don’t disagree but if those protections aren’t in place then it’s up to the consumer to protect themself.

    girlfreddy, avatar

    That’s something the gov’t is supposed to mandate because businesses don’t give a shit. They’re only there to make money for the corporate bosses and investors.

    Caveat emptor is not a universal mantra everyone knows or understands.


    I mean the government hasn’t put up any protections yet. I support them putting up protections. Until they do, someone’s providing actual advice of what to do instead of crying, getting scammed, or not buying a car.


    And what would be better recommendations for the poor individuals trapped by loans?


    Regulatory reform? Not “just go buy a laptop and study amortization before you buy”.


    Yeah, that sounds reasonable in the long run (years), while the laptop plan is more immediately useful.


    Yes, telling poor people to buy laptops is so practical


    Are they just talking about the predatory “buy here, pay here”-type used-car dealers that have been around for a while, or are new-car dealers getting into the scam now, too?


    The whole article was just anecdotes and heresay, so who knows. I know there is a ton of predatory b/s involved with buying cars but these examples seem like outliers. I think the Tik Tok lady was lying about her car payment(s) though just to go viral and it totally worked.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    I automatically think less of anyone who doesn’t buy Toyota at this point. Used or new, no other maker comes close to the value. I don’t even like their cars but I’d never claim that my personal flavor is better than Toyota’s offerings outside of my own niche interests (and I’ve still got a Corolla I drive most days in the summer). $1,400 a month for a fucking Tahoe is ridiculous and I have a hard time having any sympathy for someone stupid enough to make that their “dream car” or worth taking out a $84,000 loan for.


    Blind loyalty to a brand is extremely dangerous.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    It isn’t blind. As soon as Toyota breaks their decades-long streak of making the best valued cars, I’ll never recommend them again. But for now, recommending people concerned with money/value buy only Toyota is based on current facts.

    FlyingSquid, avatar

    I do own a Toyota, which I am happy with, and I still think that’s a shitty attitude.

    So congratulations, you got me to think less of you.


    I automatically think less of anyone who doesn’t buy Toyota at this point.

    It’s almost like some people have different needs for their cars than you do? No, that can’t be it. They must be dumb for not choosing what you like.

    I guess I’ll go buy the small Toyota EV… nope, can’t. I guess I’ll go buy the small hybrid Toyota truck… nope, I can’t. Or maybe I absolutely hate the entertainment system software that feels like it was designed 10 years ago.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    It’s almost like some people have different needs for their cars than you do?

    Toyota has one of the most diverse product ranges out of any automaker. Notice I said the brand and not a model? They make cars to fit 99% of people’s needs.

    I’ll go buy the small Toyota EV…

    You can run a Prius in EV mode.

    I guess I’ll go buy the small hybrid Toyota truck

    No you won’t lol. If you’re seriously concerned with that, get a manual transmission Tacoma (the only mid-sized truck with one) that gets better MPG than a hybrid Maverick. Then sell your Tacoma for 90% of what you paid for it and buy a hybrid truck when they’re the first to make one worth buying in the first place. Otherwise, have fun being a beta tester for Ford/GM.

    Or maybe I absolutely hate the entertainment system software that feels like it was designed 10 years ago.

    Skill issue, iPad baby, etc.


    a manual transmission Tacoma (the only mid-sized truck with one) that gets better MPG than a hybrid Maverick.

    You’re kind of a moron.

    The Tacoma with a manual gets worse MPG than the automatic Tacoma and WAY worse MPG than the hybrid Maverick. The manual Tacoma is estimated 18/23/20 MPG, while the Maverick I currently own long term averages around 37 MPG, gets 36 MPG on road trips and around 40 MPG on my commute to work. As far as selling a Tacoma for 90% of what you paid, my Maverick could be sold today for more than I paid for it and a 2022 Maverick Hybrid is currently worth 91% of the MSRP of a 2024 Maverick Hybrid.

    And while you can run a Prius Prime in EV mode for up to 44 miles, that’s a far cry from an actual EV that can do both a 60 mile round trip work commute and a 200 mile road trip in full EV mode. And don’t argue that I don’t need that full range, because my entire point is that everyone has different needs and maybe I actually do (I personally don’t, which is why I got the Maverick; but I’ve owned in the past both a 90 mile range Toyota Rav4 EV and a 240 mile range Bolt EV so I understand what each is like).

    Yes, Toyota has a diverse range of vehicles. Yes, Toyota has very high quality. No, they don’t fit every use case. No, they don’t look all that great, which is both personal preference and also important for many people.


    It’s the big 4 Japanese brands for me: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and Subaru.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    Mazda’s been on a roll recently, I’ll admit, but Subaru has had issues forever and Honda cars are overvalued to hell.


    I agree. Nissan was the solid #2 Japanese company until getting in bed with Renault.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    I’ll defend the KA24 as being equal to or better than the 22R every day of the week, but that’s a good Nissan motor; the hardbodies never came close to the overall construction quality of Toyota P’ups


    I’ve been very happy with Mazda over the years. I had intended to get a Toyota at one point, but the local dealership by me was scummy and kept trying to force me into buying specific models I wasn’t interested in which pissed me off. I went to the nearby Mazda dealership as my second choice and I’ve never regretted that decision.


    I was very happy with my Mazda 3. It just didn’t work once I moved out to the country. The thing is like 3" off of the road.


    You mean Toyota, the same company that has spent years lobbying against emissions standards in Australia and dragging their feet on EVs?


    Yes, Toyota. The last bastion of low cost, durable cars in the US especially with the nonsensical EPA loopholes and the bans/tariffs of reasonable trucks, EVs, etc. All of that on top of the car industry going out for blood after COVID taught them that smaller batches of expensive cars can sell quite well, loans be damned. I had to take what I could get with 25k.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    If you’re a financially strapped consumer looking for a car, you’ll find no better deal than one of Toyota’s models, excepting some special scenarios. Their slow progress towards EV adoption doesn’t negate that.


    I don’t see why it’s a big deal that they’re dragging their feet on EVs in classic Toyota style. This is what they do and why they’re so reliable. Other companies jump headfirst into projects often with disastrous results.

    Not to mention Toyota was first with the hybrid and hybridizing a good chunk of their fleet so its not as if they’re selling a bunch of gas guzzlers like Dodge/Chrysler.

    I don’t agree with the other guy that people are stupid for buying any other brand, but Toyota is consistently the best bang for your buck in most categories.


    Toyota has raised their prices inline with inflation since 2021 (~24%). Nissan and Suburu have been under inflation in that period (~20%). Stellantis (Dodge etc.) have raised their prices ~50% in that period and Kia/Hyundai have gone up ~40%. People should look at which companies have been price gouging and avoid them.

    PP_BOY_, avatar

    Sticker price is only one part of the equation. Toyota cars are more reliable (read: consumer friendly) than any of their competion and have been for several decades now. If you want to save 4%, go for the car that’s almost garaunteed to blow a head gasket within its first 120k.


    I did the math for the interest rate since they didn’t bother to in the article. The article says she had paid $1400/mo for 3 years and had only paid 10,000 toward principal. Assuming that’s 36 months of payments, the interest rate would be around 15.5%. The payment term would have been 10 years and total payments would end up being $168k.

    Predatory lenders and financial illiteracy; a perfect match made in hell.


    While whoever did that to her really ought to be in jail, she does need to take some responsibility

    • most people dont need such a big vehicle - clearly it will be expensive
    • most people shouldn’t get the top end trim of whatever vehicle

    Unless she willingly went into this because she used to have higher income, I do t see how she could claim complete ignorance

    That kind of interest rate indicates she was a bad credit risk, either because she made the same mistake before, or she couldn’t afford it. If she’d already made the same mistake, will she ever learn? If she just plain couldn’t afford it, yeah, a lot of that is on the scummy salesman

    donuts avatar

    I've been watching my 2014 BMW shit itself for the last 2 years and cost me as much as the damn thing is worth as a trade-in in repairs, so I'm inclined to agree with you on that point. I remember my best friend in highschool's mom had a gold Toyota Camry around 20 years ago, and I still see that damn car driving around almost every day where I live. Meanwhile, my car is falling apart at 95k miles.

    Having said that, I might not get a Toyota because I'm interested in a used AWD EV SUV, and the bz4x just doesn't seem good enough for the price compared to the competition. The Rav4 Prime seems like a great car, but it's still >10k above what I want to spend.

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