Why do people watch movies when books exist? They’re different mediums for delivering a story.
I saw this thread and assumed you were talking about actual walking simulators like Firewatch or Gone Home, ones that don’t really have any gameplay mechanics besides walking and interacting with objects. But from your comments you seem to be taking issue with games like God of War, The Last of Us and The Witcher which makes me think you’re a little misguided as to what those games really are. Those games have a story but that’s not the sole reason they’re popular. They’re all groundbreaking titles in their own right from a technical perspective, they just happen to have good stories because that makes them resonate with players even more.
It’s like how a movie with a bunch great fight scenes and no story isn’t going to resonate with audiences in the same way as a movie with great fight scenes and a story to tie it all together. It’s an important part of the immersive experience for a lot of people.
This is an honest question, not a troll: what makes The Last of Us groundbreaking from a technical perspective? I played it and loved the story, but the gameplay was utterly boring to me. I got through the game entirely because I wanted to see the conclusion of the story and when the HBO show came out I was thrilled because it meant I wouldn’t have to play a game I hated to see the story of TLoU 2.
It’s been years, but my recollection is the game was entirely on rails, mostly walking and talking with infrequent bursts of quicktime events and clunky shooting. What was groundbreaking about it?
What was groundbreaking was the character and world building. Joel and Ellie feel like real people, with interesting backstories and relatable emotions. In the PS3 era, it felt ahead of its time.
Well, a movie and a book are quite different. I think OP’s point, right or wrong, is that a story-based game with minimal or no gameplay is very close to exactly what a movie is.
This is the weirdest comments section I’ve ever seen. Stories are why I play every single one of my favourite games. I just finished Control and it’s absolutely phenomenal. Yes it plays and looks great, but the story and lore is why it’s so good.
Yep, it was great. I picked it back up after not finishing it so did the DLCs to stretch it out as I was near the end. Finished The Foundation yesterday, not as good as the main game or AWE. I’ve downloaded Alan Wake Remastered now, so that’s next.
Please take this as a genuine question and not an insult or challenge: do you read books? I’m curious if games are just the way you consume stories in your life, or if you also read stories but game stories are different in some way that matters to you.
The older I get the less I care about endless gameplay loops and carrot on a stick mechanics. A good story keeps me invested and caring about what happens on the screen. Games like God of War, Last of us, Witcher are gold standards when it comes to this. They are not movies on rails, they are engaging and interactive experiences like you can’t find anywhere else and for this I will always love these types of games more than any other medium.
Edit: OP literally mentioned these games as examples lower down in the thread.
I really like the characters and voice/motion acting in Baldur’s Gate 3. Magnificently rendered. Very well written. But the story is totally on rails. You can nod your head at an NPC and they will say “Anyway, let’s get on with things…” or you can tell that NPC to eat shit and die and they will say “Hey no need to be vulgar. Anyway let’s get on with things…”
There are some branches and choices in the game but overall it feels pretty prepared. I enjoy hunting for fun Astarion reactions to random things, but the game frequently offers fake choices, and the consequences of choices are usually 1. the story continues as written or 2. the story thread just ends 3. oh no combat or 4. some really weak alternative thread that you know isn’t the main one and they threw in just to pad.
Games are not superior medium for telling stories. All the good parts are the ones taken from movies, and the interactivity is still weak. When a game has GPT-level improvisation then I’ll be impressed but that will just be a sandbox anyway.
i think they might mean more something along the lines of telltale games. and there’s definitely been more than one mediocre story driven adventure with bad gameplay, we just don’t remember them as easily. also, a lot of people really don’t get the appeal of role playing. so games like baldur’s gate might come off as “old ass gameplay on top of a long winded boring story” to the someone who also doesn’t like of turn based combat. I could even see a somewhat valid complaint if they were mad about QuickTime events seeming to be more common than ever. I thought those would be a relic of the past 10 years ago… looking at you spider man! every super hero game really. why are these still a thing? who likes them?
I think Telltale and those like it would be even worse examples than God Of War and etcetera. These games add a new dimension to the experience by providing ways for the viewer/player to influence the story. The only thing I could conflate it with would be CYOA books, which obviously are a conpletely different medium.
God of War is basically a button masher. I remember liking The Last of Us, but it was new when I played it, so I don’t remember much of the gameplay. Can’t speak to the Witcher
Involvement. Because no matter how perfect the gameplay is, if you use your brain occaisonally, you should ask yourself WHY? Why am i doing it.
If you play since the 80‘s, you hit, flew, drove, shot, build and puzzled almost everything.
Stories consist of motivations. Otherwise there is nothing of consequence going on. But cheer up. There are many more people like you, Stanley. Push the button. Keep pushing it.
In reading this thread, I get the sense that some people don’t (or can’t) separate gameplay and story. Saying, “this is a great game” to me has nothing to do with the story; the way a game plays can exist entirely outside a story. The two can work together well and create a fantastic experience, but “game” seems like it ought to refer to the thing you do since, you know, you’re playing it.
My personal favorite example of this is Outer Wilds. The thing you played was a platformer puzzle game and it was executed very well. The story drove the gameplay perfectly and was a fantastic mystery you solved as you played. As an experience, it was about perfect to me; the gameplay was fun and the story made everything you did meaningful.
I loved the story of TLoU and was thrilled when HBO adapted it. Honestly, it’s hard to imagine anyone enjoying the thing TLoU had you do separately from the story it was telling. It was basically “walk here, press X” most of the time with some brief interludes of clunky shooting and quicktime events.
I get the gameplay making the story more immersive, but there’s no reason the gameplay shouldn’t be judged on its own merit separately from the story.
For visual novels with no input besides the occasional choice, I personally like to enjoy the music and story without having to worry about skill issues or in some cases, it being hard to get past a certain section that prevents me from progressing. And a couple things most visual novels have that movies don’t would be the ability to go at your own pace and choices that alter the dialogue and the overall ending.
Though, that’s just my take on it from my perspective from someone who likes both no-input visual novel games and normal games.
Don’t worry OP. My observation of people who eventually stopped playing those games and instead just watch the story on YouTube validates your experience. Some games are worth less than their let’s plays.
Yea dude this is often such a false promise, im sure some games pull it off but often its like one choice that makes a drastic difference in outcome.many times it’s not like a nuanced calculation of the decisions you make over an entire playthrough
What games are we even talking about? Like Gone Home or something?
The perception of choice still matters. A movie can’t ask you to choose anything, not even a false choice. So if that’s important, a movie simply can’t do it.
I like visual novels because of how I can change the story with different choices. This isn't much gameplay but it is still interactive and a lot easier to do with a computer than with manually flipping between pages in a Choose Your Own Adventure book.
Now, kinetic novels, where you do not change anything significant in the story with your choices, those I agree with OP's sentiment. Some people like them and that's totally fine, but I personally don't see the appeal. Maybe it's getting exposure to stories from people who had an idea but not a high enough budget for a movie?
As I scroll this thread I’m really wondering how much people still read books. When people say they like story games, is that because that’s the only source of stories in their lives, and they’re saying “of course I like stories?” Do they have any great stories to compare with, from books?
The responses make a great deal more sense to me if I assume no one reads anymore. I speak as an avid reader and gamer.
I’d like to think I’m an avid reader (and gamer) as well. I view both highly and both have their strengths.
SPOILERS
Video games shine in terms of player interactivity. I genuinely felt visceral, strong emotions by simply having to press the square button 3 times in TLOU2. Bashing someone’s head in is the only way to proceed. The music gets more distorted, the screen itself becomes blurry – I felt as Ellie felt. Distraught, upset, angry, and everything else in between.
I felt the acceptance that I have been honing in my countless loops of Outer Wilds when I finally pulled the system’s “life support” out. Flying through space one last time while the music echoes this final journey really made me feel things.
I’d summarise the edge video games have as “This is what you (the player) have done. You have agency. Deal with the consequences of your own actions, or reap the benefits.”
A huge disclaimer, I know that the story is already established in the writers room. I’m not saying that games allow you to craft your own story. I’m saying that they allow you to craft your own experience.
Of course, great writers can accomplish the same. I love Atwood’s writing in particular, and she does conjure up wonderful emotions. But you always feel for someone or something. You don’t have any agency in what happens, so emotions tend to be dampened as well. That’s my personal opinion anyway, feel free to disregard it!
I think you’re totally right about placing the “reader” in a position of agency and how that gives the story greater impact.
I also think it really fences game stories in, too, because people would object to being certain kinds of characters, or making certain kinds of choices.
Either you have to give the gamer palatable choices, or they feel dissociated from their character, like “well fuck okay I’ll do it but this is clearly not what I would rather do,” and that greater impact is undermined.
Some games excel at finding the tricky balance point where you aren’t quite sure what you would do and really have to think and consider the consequences because you’re invested in both directions. But you can only cram so many such moments into a plot before it becomes obvious.
Yeap fully agreed here as well. I do think the medium itself is shackled by its own chains, but my goodness when you find a game that does it well – the feeling is astounding.
I guess it depends on the player as well. I adored how TLOU2 handled its story but most people might disagree.
Anyway, I’ve come to the realisation that I’ve mostly been reading non fiction lately! Maybe that’s why I’m so fiction starved.
If you’ve any books to recommend I’d love to hear them!
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