Senate Republican says US needs to accept Ukraine will ‘cede some territory’ to Russia

Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) said Sunday that the United States needs to accept that Ukraine will likely need to “cede some territory” to Russia to end the fighting. Vance told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union” that he is opposed to sending more aid to Ukraine because he does not believe the country will ever be able to overpower Russia. He questioned why sending billions in aid to Ukraine is going to help the country at this point in its war against Russia, considering previous aid has yet to end the war. “What’s in America’s best interest is to accept Ukraine is going to have to cede some territory to the Russians, and we need to bring this war to a close,” Vance said. “But when I think about the great human tragedy here, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans innocent have been killed in this conflict. The thing that’s in our interest and in theirs is to stop the killing.”

hoanbridgetroll,
@hoanbridgetroll@midwest.social avatar

What a spineless traitor to humanity.

Introversion,

He’s a Republican. But I repeat you.

TechyDad,
@TechyDad@lemmy.world avatar

“Look, Russia will stop fighting if Ukraine just gives up the two ‘contested’ provinces.”

“Okay, Ukraine gave them up, but Russia now says it only wants these three more.”

“Look, Russia is being very reasonable. They will stop all the fighting and even allow Ukraine to join NATO if they just get these five provinces.”

“Ukraine is just a tiny country now. They might as well submit to Russian rule.”

“Russia just wants this one tiny province in Poland. Is that really worth starting WW3 over?!!!”

captainlezbian,

No we fucking don’t. If putin gets anything he wanted he’ll do it again

rbesfe,

Putin has arguably already had a large chunk of what he wanted since 2014. There’s been so much time to not only reinforce Crimea and Donbas militarily, but also to change the population makeup by moving in thousands of Russian families.

I hate Putin as much as the next rational human being, but even a pro-Ukraine perspective has to reconcile with the fact that some of these formerly Ukrainian lands are now populated by a large majority in favour of being part of Russia. Even if Ukraine could gain full military control over these areas, it wouldn’t magically get rid of the separatists.

Anamnesis,

The Eastern part of the country has been pro-Russia for a long time. I don’t know if it’s even a good idea to try to force them to stay part of Ukraine. Doesn’t justify the invasion, of course.

lolcatnip,

It brings up the difficult question of where to draw the line between ethnic cleansing and expelling foreign invaders. Personally I think expelling recently-settled Russians from occupied Ukraine would be a reasonable thing to do, but the longer the territory remains occupied, the harder is to justify.

BeautifulMind,
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

The one sure way to end the fighting is to fund Ukraine’s defense. When the right defunded Ukraine’s defense, they didn’t do it to promote peace, they did it to advance the interests of their allies (that is, Putin).

The reality of ‘ending the fighting’ is going to mean the violence will continue in the territory Russia controls, even after the ‘hostilities’ as such are ended. When Russia gains some territory, the russification of that territory involves punishing the people there for not having surrendered more quickly, liquidating institutions of local culture and replacing them with Russian ones, the separation of families, the internal displacement of locals on trips to the far east that many won’t survive, the ‘political reeducation’ camps, etc.

When US politicians try to pass off enabling a certain genocide as an ‘end to hostilities’ or in anodyne terms like ‘cede some territory’, don’t let them do it. They’re not acquiescing to the inevitable, they’re actively partnering in genocide.

HuddaBudda,
HuddaBudda avatar

Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) said Sunday that the United States needs to accept that Ukraine will likely need to “cede some territory” to Russia to end the fighting.

The problem is that if you reward Putin for his efforts, you only empower him and dictators like China and Iran. China will go after Taiwan, and Iran will go after Syria.

Because after all, they don't have to beat the US military, or even war exhaustion from the people. He just has to outlast the greed of the American Senators.

Which compared to the 800 billion we spend on the military, or the $300,000 you can bribe a senator. It would seem that Russia has chosen the more economic approach.

Something_Complex,

Not to mention that public opinion in Russia is changing too…we had the advantage long term. We have half of the world’s resources not to say even more…

assassin_aragorn,

How much dirt does Putin have on Vance? Apparently a lot.

digeridoo,

We accepted it in 2014, when Russia took Crimea, hoping that would satiate their dreams of the Soviet Empire and here we are nearly 10 years later. The Russian government does not act in good faith, and if we don’t crush their capability to wage war we’ll see them try to take the rest of Ukraine and beyond.

These guys may as well be the modern day equivalent of Neville Chamberlain.

misterundercoat,

As an Ohioan, I apologize for my state unleashing this feckless sycophant on the national political discourse. Unfortunately, our Democratic challenger was less exciting than a bowl of tapioca.

pelespirit,
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

We have a boring governor here in washington and it’s awesome. I don’t agree with everything but meh, it’s little stuff and who cares. I’m sad he’s retiring.

recapitated,

I don’t understand why the GOP is okay with strengthening the Kremlin, who identifies as our adversary, by allowing them to steal valuable economic land that has major strategic geopolitical ties. They were always supposed to be the strength and might party… And Russia is clearly not that mighty so why is that the ship they want to jump to?

lolcatnip,

Because they give zero fucks about what happens to anyone but themselves, and they’re being manipulated with either bribes or kompromat. Or they just want to own the libs.

RealFknNito,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, not an inch. Fucking Republicans.

TheJims,

United States needs to accept that Republicans work for Russia now.

Introversion,

Democrats know and are mad about it. Republicans know and are happy about it. 🤷‍♂️

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

He picked up a message on his morning jog at the usual dead drop. It said “announce that Ukraine will need to cede some territory to Russia”

Ranvier,

They don’t need a dead drop. Republicans just collaborate with facist authoritarians way out in the open. Their base either doesn’t care, makes excuses for them, or actively root for a christofacist dictatorship to take over and destroy democracy.

theguardian.com/…/hungary-viktor-orban-republican…

He wasn’t a senator at the time so JD Vance wasn’t on the infamous republican 4th of July trip to meet with putin.

thehill.com/…/395719-gop-senators-visited-moscow-…

Oh but what’s this? His companies helping to spread Russian propaganda? Wow, it’s always the ones you most suspect.

nytimes.com/…/jd-vance-peter-thiel-rumble.html

tsonfeir, (edited )
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

There has to be a website that connects all the dots for this. Like some kind of pin board with photos and yarn you see in detective movies.

Milk_Sheikh,

Up front, I broadly support almost any aid short of NBC weapons to Ukraine. Territorial exchange by invasion needs to be non-negotiable, and Ukraine should be the one who decides if/when they’ve had enough war, not us or Russia

JD Vance is reprehensible and talking out of both sides, but there’s some truth to this idea. If you look back at the deeper history of Ukraine, the Donbas wasn’t a part of Ukraine under Kievan Russ or the precursor dynasty. The area is very ethnically Russian & Russophone (absolutely artificially boosted by prior pseudo-genicidal policy of Russification, as also in Poland) and if you look at the census data, the electoral history, and where the separatists draw recruits from, it’s very split east/south-east of the Dnipro river.

If the government in Kyiv (rightfully) refuses to give territory and end to the war, they are only left with Russian capitulation or a NK/SK style permanent standoff over their own DMZ. The survey data indicates the Ukranian people are willing to go all the way to Crimea, which is mirrored by Kyiv policy, but viable is that for Ukraine militarily? Frontline progress is steady but slow, and Ukraine shares a lot of the skewed age demographics with Russia that make a long term war difficult on manpower alone.

BillDaCatt,
BillDaCatt avatar

Look! A republican waving the flag of surrender. What a fucking coward. He's not from my state and I'm still embarrassed that he is in Congress.

NounsAndWords,

This is what happens when countries rely on the US for foreign aid. We are unreliable.

Other countries need to increase their own funding if we are dropping the ball. We are not the only nation in the world.

be_excellent_to_each_other,
be_excellent_to_each_other avatar

This is what happens when countries rely on the US for foreign aid. We are unreliable.

Absolutely true.

Just ask the Hungarians how trustworthy we are at helping Eastern Europe throw off the Russians.

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