Bill Maher Goes on Anti-Vax Tirade During Heated Covid-19 Debate With 'Family Guy' Creator Seth MacFarlane

Sorry, can’t find any better sources for this.

The animator then asked Maher what the “downside” of “getting a vaccine” was, which caused the comedian to go on an anti-vax tirade.

“The fact that you the fact that you don’t even have a clue what’s the cost of getting a vaccine that you don’t know the answer to that. You completely want to shut your eyes to the fact that there are repercussions to all medical interventions, including a vaccine, all vaccines,” he ranted. “They come, they say side effects, just like every medication does. You can see it in the literature. They can’t write it on their back on the vaccine. So you have to dig them. And of course, there is a vaccine court because so many people have been injured.”

makeshiftreaper,

It’s so annoying that this has been politicized into such an all or nothing situation. Vaccines work so well because of statistics. No vaccines aren’t 100% effective, vaccines aren’t 100% safe, they do have side effects. However, in the unbelievably vast majority of cases vaccines prevent or reduce the symptoms of a disease, lower the amount you transmit, and the most severe side effects are often still better than the worst of the disease. There is legitimately a population that cannot get vaccines for various reasons (egg allergies and immuno compromised people primarily) and it’s our responsibility to get vaccinated to help protect those people

As a stats major I’d like to blame math illiteracy, specifically people failing to understand orders of magnitude, but honestly even if you suck at math a simple pro/con list of each should still make it obvious. If the odds of cardio problems and death are equal with the vaccine and covid respectively (death from covid is 44 times more likely) then you should get the vaccine. If the odds of getting autism from the polio vaccine and ending up in an iron lung are the same (not even comparable because there’s no evidence vaccines cause autism) then you should get the vaccine

Also finally, rugged individualism is such an awful way of thinking. The whole “I’ve never had a serious illness, so my immune system is strong” is just stupid. You have no way to know what will and won’t kill you until you’re dead. Or in a coma. Or incapable of walking. Or on oxygen for the rest of your life. All of which are significantly more likely to happen from getting covid, which is almost a statistical certainty for everyone in the world at this point, that you should just get the vaccine

CosmicTurtle,

I don’t think this is a statistical issue.

When you boil down the rhetoric, what it comes down to is cognitive dissonance.

Anti-vaxers, and conservatives generally, have a negative physical reaction when they encounter a fact that goes contrary to their already established beliefs. Now to be fair, liberals do this too but not to the same extent.

There is a nugget of truth in their rhetoric which is that the government shouldn’t be trusted. On that basis, an entire lie and, quite frankly a political party, has established itself as “the government wants to track you with the vaccine!” while completely ignoring their cell phones.

Many of these people don’t want to know the truth because when presented with it, the truth will force them to either accept it or go back to what they know and, more importantly, feel.

This isn’t a battle over math.

It’s a battle over emotion and that’s why it’s so hard to win.

makeshiftreaper,

Yeah I was alluding to that. One would hope that death, permanent disability, and prolonged suffering would be stronger emotional motivators than minor heart problems, learning disabilities, and government overreach. But it appears that your preconceived notions can be so strong that you ignore the real possibile outcomes of your actions. I just wish so many people didn’t have to pay for their ignorance with their lives

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The whole “I’ve never had a serious illness, so my immune system is strong” is just stupid.

Yes it is. Plenty of viruses and bacteria don’t give a shit about your immune system. Never having a serious illness before won’t protect you from HIV if you are promiscuous and not smart about it.

Wrench,

I don’t think Math Illiteracy is the culprit in the case of well educated people, which I assume Maher is.

It is not hard to understand that vaccines have extremely low chance of serious side effects, while covid just has a low mortality chance, but a relatively high chance of long term effects. And these same vaccine deniers typically tout that covid is endemic now and “everyone is going to get it”, so we can just mark likelihood to get it as near 100%.

It’s not a hard concept. If you accept that you’re oing to get covid one way or another, your net chance of serious harm is much lower if you take the vaccine.

But to these asshats, it’s not about logic, it’s about ego. His phrasing was extremely demeaning, and offered zero evidence to his point of view. It was simply “if you don’t agree with me, you’re an idiot”. And that’s the argument I tend to get from the antivaxxers, and if pressed for actual stats, they will claim some conspiracy to hide the true numbers, and at best, quote all these irrelevant tangential stats that some misinformation article claims indicates the mainstream science willfully ignores in their agenda to promote dangerous vaccines.

TechyDad,
@TechyDad@lemmy.world avatar

Vaccines also faced a problem in that they are too good. I’m 48. I don’t remember any of my classmates getting measles or mumps. We did get chicken pox, though, because this was before the vaccine. My kids, meanwhile, haven’t gotten chicken pox because they got the vaccine.

Given that I haven’t experienced measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc first hand, it would be easy to dismiss their severity. “Measles are just some bumps on your body for a week. Whooping cough means you cough for a bit.” Completely untrue, but the Internet can spread these reduced severity descriptions far and wide.

If people experienced actual measles or whooping cough regularly, they would be racing to get the vaccines. By removing these diseases from everyday life, vaccines actually hurt themselves by making it easier for people to dismiss the diseases.

ATDA,

Is there something in the water? What the fuck is with this spread nonsense? How the shit did preventative medicine become a target for these people? Will they find toothpaste shouldn’t be consumed en masse and rail against that?

Kase,

Just wait till you hear about the conspiracy theories surrounding fluoride… :/

zxk,

Fluoride has modest benefit in terms of reduction of dental caries but significant costs in relation to cognitive impairment, hypothyroidism, dental and skeletal fluorosis, enzyme and electrolyte derangement, and uterine cancer. Given that most of the toxic effects of fluoride are due to ingestion, whereas its predominant beneficial effect is obtained via topical application, ingestion or inhalation of fluoride predominantly in any form constitutes an unacceptable risk with virtually no proven benefit. Source: NIH.gov

QuaternionsRock,

Woah holy shit… so fluoridated water is useless?

Kase,

Thanks!

zxk,

Big pharma doesn’t have clean hands, millions of people died and no one says shit but we’re still crying about a few hundred businessmen dying in 9/11, the same kind everyone goes EAT THE RICH about. Everyone is so psychotic in their everyday life and this is the least baffling thing if you’ve ever read a history book or a newspaper

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

Bunch of people, mostly old dudes, have a fundamental aversion to not being the smartest person in the room. They latch on to whatever gives them the opportunity to be contrarian and in an environment of social media and disinformation they don't fully understand they spiral out into neofash, deluded stances becoming their entire persona.

Rant about something you're wrong about, get the whole internet telling you how dumb that is, get defensive because you can't be the one who's wrong, get radicalized. Welcome to the 21st century.

Source: I can't believe I didn't spiral down that toilet myself. Seriously, I should be one of those assholes. I can't believe I noticed just in time before the Internet weaponized that personality type into the death of democracy.

HAL_9_TRILLION,

Bunch of people, mostly old dudes, have a fundamental aversion to not being the smartest person in the room.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. And where does this come from? We all know that guy. He’s our dad, or whoever - but we all know at least one. So it’s nearly ubiquitous. What I wonder is: what is this a product of? From where does this arise?

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

Deep-seated self-esteem issues. It's the same reason they drive big stupid trucks and why men aged 50-65 consume half the beef in America: They're desperate to feel powerful like men are supposed to be, according to them.

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

Oh, it's me. I'm that guy. I mean, look at my post history here. I invented being that guy, except Maher is older than me, but I'll still argue about it because I'm that guy.

It comes from being somewhat above average in school, and getting a bit of a reputation for being precocious and smart and not really having anything else going on so you may as well double down on it and have a thing. Plus if you ride that wave confidently enough it'll get you a full on career. And once you get validated by sucess, or whatever you personally consider success-adjacent enough, there's no way them kids are gonna show you up. Ever. No matter what. Every hill is worth dying on. Because that self-image. Is. All. You. Have. All you've had for decades now.

Man, I should go hug my dad. I can point at the two or three conversations we had that made me at least try not to be that asshole.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You can also have had a professor for a dad. My dad and his colleagues basically spent any social time they had together trying to play “who’s the smartest?”

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
Semi-Hemi-Demigod avatar

As a cishet guy I hate hanging around with other cishet guys because they're constantly trying to assert dominance

IchNichtenLichten,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Maher is one of those older guys who thinks they figured everything out 30 years ago and doesn’t need to try any more. The epitome of a lazy, entitled boomer.

lobut,

I mean he’s said it in the podcast in so many words: “why are the regular people more right than the experts sometimes?” I’m paraphrasing of course, I don’t care to listen to it again but that’s what kickstarted this conversation.

TheSanSabaSongbird,

Well, TIL. For some reason, despite not really knowing anything about him, I had the impression that he’s a reasonable guy.

dangblingus,

That’s been his whole shtick since the 90s. Ask “common sense” questions, elevate yourself into the Chad Wojack and everyone else is Soyjack, dunk on stupid religious people. Into the 2010s and 2020s, he went full culture war though.

SpezBroughtMeHere,

Hey, we could have let the boomer remover do its thing, but no, you all had to go and get everyone vaccinated.

Tedesche,

The epitome of a lazy, entitled boomer.

Right, because that kind of intellectual arrogance is definitely a generational trait that us Millennials and Zoomers don’t ever need to worry about.

So much generational bullshit that people buy into these days. What garbage.

IchNichtenLichten,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Right, because that kind of intellectual arrogance is definitely a generational trait that us Millennials and Zoomers don’t ever need to worry about.

Your words, not mine,

So much generational bullshit that people buy into these days. What garbage.

In your rush to take offense, you missed my point completely. I’ll paraphrase:

Older people (omitting any triggering mention of boomers) can often struggle to keep their opinions and thinking relevant as they can become less receptive to new information.

It was true 100 years ago and it’ll be true 100 years from now.

Tedesche,

Older people (omitting any triggering mention of boomers) can often struggle to keep their opinions and thinking relevant as they can become less receptive to new information.

It’s got nothing to do with age or receptivity to new information. Vaccines aren’t new. This isn’t an instance of an old person not understanding something that came about “past their time.” Furthermore, there are plenty of younger people who are on the anti-vax bandwagon, so I’m not sure what your obsession with age is.

I don’t think I’ve misunderstood you at all; I just think your opinion is wrong, bigoted, and ignorant.

IchNichtenLichten,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

It’s got nothing to do with age or receptivity to new information

Disagree.

Vaccines aren’t new.

mRNA ones are pretty new.

This isn’t an instance of an old person not understanding something that came about “past their time.”

How do you know?

Furthermore, there are plenty of younger people who are on the anti-vax bandwagon

Yes, Maher is like this on a whole raft of issues though.

I just think your opinion is wrong, bigoted, and ignorant.

OK.

Tedesche,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jpreston2005,

    except you’re not being pithy. you’re just an asshole.

    Tedesche,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jpreston2005,

    you’re responding to the wrong person.

    nobody was being an asshole to anyone. the OP was addressing people aging yet not updating their thinking with new information. then when you made your asshole comment (yes, you were the first asshole), he even clarified without being an asshole back.

    you’re being the asshole here. good news though, you can just stop

    IchNichtenLichten,
    @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

    See? I can give pithy, easy, completely insubstantial responses that do nothing to further the dialogue and just make it clear I’m unwilling to devote the time to a serious discussion of the issue too. Isn’t this fun?

    Not my intention. Anyway, you’ve contributed precisely nothing to this discussion so it’s probably best if we leave it there.

    Lifecoach5000,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    tacosanonymous,

    Exactly. His successes have fueled his ego into thinking all his opinions are important and correct. His failures are haters or people who “don’t get it.”

    tate,

    The problem with Bill Maher has nothing to do with his age. He sucks, it’s true, but lots of guys exactly the same age as him do not suck.

    IchNichtenLichten,
    @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

    lots of guys exactly the same age as him do not suck.

    I get that but it’s absolutely connected to his age. He’s spent the last 30 years in a bubble of wealth and privilege and has never had any pressure to update his thinking.

    squirmy_wormy,

    It’s always easier to stay still as you get older. You have to start to fight to improve.

    IchNichtenLichten,
    @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

    The struggle is real.

    DarkDarkHouse,
    @DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    And the real is a struggle

    tate,

    So, you’re admitting it’s not about his age. It’s about his wealth.

    If that’s what you’re saying I’m with you. Ageism is as wrong as any other bigotry.

    IchNichtenLichten,
    @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s absolutely connected to his age.

    I can’t be more clear on this.

    skoomaguy44,

    And yet you live in society. curious.

    Timecircleline,

    I think they are saying the age is a byproduct of the number of years he’s spent in luxury. So age is connected, but by virtue of him having been wealthy long enough to forget what it was like before.

    doublejay1999,
    @doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

    Your going to love Lemmy.

    Lavitz,

    This. He has no idea what it’s like to be an average person anymore so his commentary is disconnected and misses the point. The guy lives in an echo chamber… I honestly can’t believe he still has a show because I don’t know anyone that still watches.

    IchNichtenLichten,
    @IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

    What amusing is that he frequently accuses both the left and the right of existing in their own little bubbles. Self awareness isn’t his strong suit.

    clifftiger, (edited )

    Wie all are vulnerable to misconception. I think many people are just not aware to this fact or too lazy to question their own thoughts regularly.

    b3an,
    @b3an@lemmy.world avatar

    I still watch, despite agreeing with what is being said in this thread. I guess I do like that he takes controversial guests for example. Even if I don’t like or agree with that person or Bill, I’m interested to hear what’s being said. I don’t just mean his one-on-ones at the start either. He has some fun conversation table guests too.

    Oh man, he had had Ted Cruz in early November. Cringe. But then the week after that he had Albert Brooks and Rob Reiner, which was super fun to see those goofballs.

    He also had Andrew Cuomo and Melissa DeRosa on the show around Halloween. It was interesting actually. I had written him off. It seems that allegations were pursued against Andrew and they came up with pretty much nothing. Yeah he’s awkward and such, and I’m not sure I trust him, but Melissa DeRosa even wrote a memoir: _ What’s left unsaid: my life, at the center of power, politics, & crisis_ and she defends Cuomo in it. I mean, if he’s such a womanizer? Why is this person he worked closely with, fiercely defending him? She worked right next to him, and I’m inclined to believe she had a good view of this situation. I also thought Andrew was very helpful during COVID with his daily Covid reports. Lastly, again, I’m not some Cuomo thumper either, my point was simply, I am not sure I would have heard any of this if it hadn’t been on Bill’s show.

    Lavitz,

    Sure he has some decent guests on from time to time but so do most talk show hosts that have been on the air for decades. What I’m saying is that Bill has become stagnant and they could find another talking head to bring in more viewers with a slightly less old white dude take. But all of that being said I’m glad it helped expand your perspective and view some situations differently.

    Sorgan71,

    Hey lois, remember the time I debated an antivaxer

    cupcakezealot,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    wish people would stop giving time and space to bill maher because he’s always been an asshole since the 90s but at least it gives me another reason to post roddy piper verbally destroying him.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIpsFgZ3gAc

    n0m4n, (edited )

    I grew up when polio was a scourge. A relative was an anti-vaxxer, and one of her children was not given the Salk vaccine. Her child lived his life in braces, and over his lifetime, literally had millions of dollars spent on trying to minimize the damage from that one ignorant choice. Their family was bankrupted, and the entire family lived in poverty from that point on, spending every penny that they could, trying to undo the damage. There is a true cost of not getting vaccinated, but double-blind meta study has not shown any cost tied to getting vaccinated for covid, for the general population.

    Check for yourself.

    pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36936964/

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m only 46, so post-polio vaccine, but my mother’s boss had polio as a kid and wore leg braces and walked with two canes. Just heartbreaking. And all the people who suffer from long COVID when they could have gotten vaccinated may not even have learned their lesson.

    theangryseal,

    I’m 38, but I have a much older friend who had polio as a child. I didn’t know that until a few years ago. He walks with a limp, but it never crossed my mind to ask why.

    A few years ago he and I were talking about body identification for whatever reason. He said, “it wouldn’t be hard to identify my body because of this.” He lifted his pants, and I said, “oh I didn’t know you had a wooden leg.”

    It wasn’t wooden. It was just skin over a bone. No muscle.

    That’s when he told me he survived polio as a child.

    Funny thing though, he’s anti vax when it comes to Covid and has been hospitalized because of it at least once, maybe twice. 🙃

    TheTopPirate,

    NPC behavior: everyone in line to get the vaccine

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Genocidal behavior: dehumanizing others by considering them artificial and giving them a name to fit that consideration.

    TheTopPirate,
    Npc Lives Matter Activist:

    Bill Gates will develop another vax for us all 😍. So we can all line up to take it, and say thank you. We will also be brainwash into spreading the word that it is inconspicuous that there are people who do not align like us to take vax 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow. You’re actually admitting you’re in favor of genocide. Amazing. The lives of the people you deem as NPCs are worth sacrificing to you. I wonder if your “NPCs” include Jews. Or black people.

    Fades,

    What a fucking moron, Maher has been a piece of shit for quite some time now

    billwashere,

    I would not want to debate Seth. He’s very intelligent and very quick witted.

    T00l_shed,

    Plus he has a lovely voice!

    indepndnt,

    Several, in fact!

    PanArab, (edited )

    The US media allows charlatans and grifters to rise to the top. Worse, their nonsense gets translated into Arabic and spread by our idiots.

    Good thing I live in a country with mandatory vaccination.

    cupcakezealot,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    the uk media allows that too and it sucks

    Jyek,

    I would hardly say Bill Maher is at the top of society. He may have a lot of money but he doesn’t much more say on how the country is run than any other American. He doesn’t have lobbying money. Also anyone getting mopped the floor with by Family Guy funny man isn’t exactly someone people look to for political views and discussion.

    doctorcrimson,

    I feel that. Recently YouTube has been recommending me videos from the “manosphere” and tons of Arabic and Cyrilic commentators talking pretty harshly about women. Feels like slipping backwards in time.

    The cultural divides are getting a little thinner online these days.

    banneryear1868, (edited )

    Okaaaay new rule. Maher is a great example for how politics has changed in the US the last 20 years, because he definitely hasn’t changed (okay maybe in some ways), yet he’s almost universally despised by progressives now.

    Other comedians are going after him now too, Heidecker and Armisen produced a whole half hour satire of the odd chemistry he has on his “Club Random” podcast. Tim doesn’t do the voice impression but it’s almost funnier for some reason because of that. This is an absolutely hilarious example of it. “Hey you want some dope?” “Oh yeah sure… lets smoke this joint” “It’s not weed stupid it’s a CLOVE CIGARETTE.” I dunno how Jeff Ross holds it together here, the roastmaster that he is.

    Norm was one of the first to really go after him as “one of these comedians who try and be smart instead of funny.” His appearances on Maher’s show in that video are great, totally ruins what Maher is trying to do and makes the audience and guests crack up.

    rezz,

    The Jeff Ross episode, holy cow that’s bad. I’ve never seen his personal shows. He’s like the world’s strangest narcissist.

    banneryear1868,

    Yeah I dunno how he can look at this and think it’s good to release it. He’s basically rich and set for life at this point so maybe it’s a “because I can” thing.

    Jeff saying he doesn’t own a gun and Maher just berating him and telling him what the only reasonable opinion is comes off as completely insane.

    rezz,

    There is 0 chance he reviewed this edit. Thats the only reason this is probably out. He’s doing volume and trusting his people—and this is also probably the “best” cut (which tells you how bad it really is in real-time)—because as bad as he is, there’s just no way he knowingly released a cut like that with an actual peer like Jeff Ross.

    Now that it’s been seen, he will obviously defend it because it’s weak to pull it. But Bill isn’t so out of touch that he’d proactively release material that makes him look like Ross is embarrassed to be there.

    banneryear1868,

    Yeah that’s true and I doubt it costs him much for the production, he’s probably just wanting to have a podcast because he enjoys some podcasts and knows they’re cool right now. He probably wouldn’t even respond to criticism of it beyond, “well you know what if you don’t like it don’t watch it okaaay, and maybe when you grow up you can enjoy hearing how adults talk and have fun.”

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Eh, it happens fairly frequently that people are in a weird bubble and are so convinced they’re right they’ll willingly put out an insane rant thinking that once everyone sees it they’ll change how they think.

    Maher is a Hollywood guy which means he’s in a big bubble to begin with. And then he’s probably got an entourage that tells him he’s right about everything. They audience at his shows are a self selected group of people that agree with him.

    Sure it’s possible his team released it because they don’t give a shit about him looking bad because he’s an asshole. But it’s equally likely he ok’ed it simply because he thinks he’s right and no one he’s surrounded by day to day tells him otherwise.

    mindbleach,

    Norm was playing for an audience onstage with him. The folks down in the folding seats were just along for the ride.

    pete_the_cat,

    Damn, Jeff is like “please get me out of here…”

    banneryear1868,

    You can see Jeff’s enthusiasm melting in his face with every response from Maher. I didn’t know he had this level of personal restraint before because I only know him from his roasts. It was soul crushing to see him like this lol

    Doomsider,

    Having watched him decades ago and really liking him I can say he most definitely changed. He leans far more conservative and does not ride the fence like he used to. Granted times have changed and his schtick has gotten old. Playing a good devil’s advocate can be entertaining even if I personally am over it.

    banneryear1868, (edited )

    Yeah he always had the antivax views, but the “I believe in science” crowd was content to brush it off because he was big with the New Atheism thing, and it didn’t have the significance at the time. He was also a cannabis advocate, in favor of gay marriage, and had many other liberal libertarian opinions that were popular at the time from the Democrat base. I remember seeing his book on the shelf of my educated well-read lesbian friend in late 00s, and I don’t know why I remember this because it wasn’t remarkable at all, maybe because it was my first exposure to a friend’s political opinions rather than it being Maher specifically.

    Coreidan,

    Anti-vax is just another word for helplessly stupid

    negativeyoda,

    Why do people still pay attention to this blowhard? He was a smarmy asshole even when I agreed with him. Now he’s leaning into right wing culture war shit to try to remain relevant.

    phillaholic,

    I used to watch his show because it was live and guests seemed to have a little more freedom to say things than on other programs. I phased out of it around 2015 due to exhaustion of politics, but Maher has always been an asshole. I agree with him on Religion for the most part, but he’s mean about it a lot. His Anti-vax views are stupid because he’s worried about a small chance of a side effect and not a large chance of the main effect of getting the illness the vaccine stops.

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    he’s worried about a small chance of a side effect and not a large chance of the main effect of getting the illness the vaccine stops.

    Poor risk assessment.

    iesou,

    Yeah he’s grasping at straws. People like him and Joe Rogan who chase views and plays at any cost are despicable and gross

    HipHoboHarold,

    I remember when I was first leaving religion and becoming an atheist, I saw a trailer for his Religulous “documentary.” I think it looked interesting. I was young and angry at religion. So I watched it. I still felt like it was bad. It was basically just him going around the world laughing at religious people. He made it seem like he was going to have actual conversations on the subject. He wasn’t. I’m surprised more people have been following him this whole time. Like you said, even when I agreed with him I didn’t like him.

    5in1k,

    It is titled a portmanteau of ridiculous and religious. You went in for a serious take?

    snf,

    I’m not the person you’re replying to, but I had pretty much the same experience with the film. I wasn’t expecting a scholarly investigation obviously, but I was hoping it would at least be funny (it wasn’t) and not mean-spirited (it was).

    HipHoboHarold,

    I knew going in it was going to be biased. That’s not my issue. It’s just a lack of really much of anything from him. It just felt like him going around being an asshole. That’s it. Granted, it’s been a lot time since it came out, but by the end all I could think was that he was just a dick. Hence the fact that there’s also a lot of other people who agree with him on things that also still think he’s a dick. Because he approaches everything like a dick.

    Marthirial,

    I got vaccine for Bill Maher and haven’t cared about this obsolete Friday night filler for 3 years.

    iquanyin,
    @iquanyin@lemmy.world avatar

    he’s a douchebag for money. he is vaxxed himself.

    xor,

    i went ahead and listened to that “antivax rant” and really it wasn’t against the vaccine at all, he was against the censorship of discussion about it and policies around it.

    such as, the lab leak hypothesis… once completely censored as “misinformation”, but now a viable theory.

    or how previous covid infections don’t count as a vaccination, although the immunity ends up the same.

    a lot of his ideas on it are wrong, or misinformed, but the fact that we weren’t allowed to talk about it was fucked up… and i think it was a lot of the reason antivax shit got so big… being completely censored by bots on every forum makes a lot of people paranoid.

    i do also remember being shouted down in every forum by a mob of anti-vax russian sock puppets, so it wasn’t for no reason… but still, being able talk about things is crucial for a democracy to function.

    thalience,

    such as, the lab leak hypothesis… once completely censored as “misinformation”, but now a viable theory

    It was never completely censored. Evidenced by the fact that you, me, and everyone else heard about it.

    People got called names for promoting it without good evidence. People also got called names for pointing out that the evidence was super weak. Y’know, what passes for “debate” these days.

    Stop lying

    xor,

    omg, you’re soooooo right!
    it wasn’t completely, 100% censored, because ive heard of it! i must by lying!!!
    your evidence is so solid! so much better than what passes for debates, is you completely proving that im lying.

    go ahead and pretend like you haven’t seen comments, videos and posts removed for “misinformation”

    liar

    thalience,

    When a topic has been covered by multiple national newspapers, it’s just very silly to claim censorship.

    xor,

    things change over time.
    for SOME TIME, it was treated as laughable misinformation, and directly censored… later it wasn’t. (check out coverage on Jon Stewart when he talked about it when you weren’t supposed to)
    at a LATER TIME it was no longer bad to talk about it.
    sorry you have no idea what’s being discussed here.

    im sorry if you really think that there was no censorship involving covid discussions online.
    and i dont really care how silly you are.

    assassin_aragorn,

    They weren’t censored very well, clearly. And considering a lot of COVID misinformation was telling you to inject horse dewormer instead of getting a vaccine, I wish it was censored better. In a public health emergency, I’m pretty okay with requiring statements to be scientifically and medically sound.

    Second, it was misinformation at the time. Researchers and the general scientifically community believed the evidence pointed to other theories. It wasn’t until later when we had more evidence that it emerged as a serious possibility.

    That’s how science works. Unless an idea is supported by clear and sound evidence, it’s untrue. The lab leak theory can be misinformation at one point in time and viable at another point in time – if I predicted heavy snowfall on a 74 degree day in June, it would very obviously be wrong. If I predict it for a 20 degree day in December however, it’s actually plausible. It blows my mind that this is a novel concept for some people.

    xor,

    Second, it was misinformation at the time.

    what??? no it wasn’t. it was a plausible hypothesis.

    That’s how science works.

    that is not how science works. science works by a free exchange of ideas

    Unless an idea is supported by clear and sound evidence, it’s untrue.

    no. something can be completely true but not at all supported by evidence. You are confusing “truth” with “a broader scientific belief”

    The lab leak theory can be misinformation at one point in time and viable at another point in time –

    that doesn’t make sense, and isn’t what “misinformation” even means.

    if I predicted heavy snowfall on a 74 degree day in June, it would very obviously be wrong. If I predict it for a 20 degree day in December however, it’s actually plausible.

    well that’s the stupidest analogy i’ve ever read… the “date” and “temperature” of the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis didn’t change.

    It blows my mind that this is a novel concept for some people.

    it blows my mind that you’re patting yourself on the back for such utter drivel

    assassin_aragorn,

    You’re assuming it’s true and working backwards from there.

    Science is not just a free exchange of ideas. It gives no quarter to unfounded ideas and pseudoscience. You’re welcome to propose ideas, but the scientific community can and will tear them apart unless there’s a strong basis.

    If there is evidence, it must in general point to the truth.

    xor,

    You’re assuming it’s true and working backwards from there.

    you’re talking out of your ass, and im done talking to you

    PopcornTin,

    The White House press secretary has said they worked with tech companies to ban misinformation. The Twitter Files showed many government agencies giving them guidance to for the rules around covid misinformation, then giving lists of tweets to take action on for breaking said terms and conditions. Like or not what goofy things people thought about covid, the government telling them to shut down these posts is clearly against the first amendment.

    thalience,

    The actual information released in “the Twitter files” showed the opposite of what musky’s pet propagandists said it did.

    You seem to actually admit that what happened was identifying posts that violated the terms and conditions of private companies. No demands or threats were issued.Does the government have no right to speak truth?

    If a government agency notices a lethal hazard in your town that doesn’t technically violate the law, should they be prohibited from telling you and your neighbors about the danger?

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    being able talk about things is crucial for a democracy to function.

    This is a thing that really bothers me these days, has me worried.

    There’s such an emphasis on “killing the messenger” (vs the message) and shutting down discussion, that we haven’t seen in previous ages.

    I don’t know why it’s a new thing, maybe it’s just astroturfers/bots, otherwise it’s the newer generation being okay with censoring others, and that’s a bad thing (censoring others).

    Jax,

    That’s what happens when you’re trained to recognize buzz words as a strategy for defending yourself against idealogies you disagree with. Not defending yourself because you’re right, but because it keeps you from being exposed too much to what the other thinks. It’s easier to paint things “good, bad”, file them away and go on with your day.

    It isn’t that they think censorship is good, it’s that they’re trained to censor themselves. This is just late stage social media brainrot taking full effect, among other things.

    xor,

    it’s been pretty crazy…
    with covid we had people dying from dumb information, and russia running huge disinfo campaigns online… so i did understand cracking down on it… but just completely stifling all questioning… at all… was a huge, and terrifying, overreaction.
    …
    i got banned from reddit for arguing in worldnews against obvious israeli disinformation… so that’s fun
    …
    one main troll tactic now is to just fuck with people until you get them aggravated enough to cuss or something, then report them…
    (just got a warning on here, actually… i can say any horrible, literally destructive thing i want… but if i cuss at someone or call them a name, well THEN im uncivil

    PopcornTin,

    Much like this post’s OP, couldn’t find any better sources? How about the actual interview in YouTube? Google the names of the two guys, that’s all it takes. But no, let’s all just rant about how bad anti vax people are, rather than argue whatever points they make. This is such an extreme echo chamber.

    For me, it was most revealing when the EU parliament got the pharmaceutical execs to admit they did not track basic stats of the vaccine. Does it prevent infection completely? If not, does it stop retransmission? Does it minimize the severity (no reaction, slight cold, hospitalized, death)? Nope, we’re not tracking that.

    xor,

    well that’s crazy…
    and got the vax earlier than most (got sorta a standby appointment for when higher risk people didn’t show up)… and i got a booster…
    i’m a very big fan of vaccines…
    i’m still not a fan of the way the covid vaccine discussions were censored…

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