glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

LA Times bans 38 of its journalists from reporting on after they sign open letter critical of coverage - https://boingboing.net/2024/01/06/la-times-bans-38-of-its-journalists-from-reporting-on-gaza-after-they-sign-open-letter-critical-of-coverage.html "partiality in recent coverage has not allowed them to do their jobs."

davidpnice,
@davidpnice@mastodon.online avatar

@glynmoody Crazy world. Suppression of free press...by the press itself.

glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

@davidpnice well, and all that...

Piousunyn,

@glynmoody

Journalists under the rule of oligarchs are not really journalists.

glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

@Piousunyn trouble is, there aren't many alternatives these days...

msbellows,
@msbellows@c.im avatar

@glynmoody The LAT's staff should strike over this.

glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

@msbellows indeed

richard_merren,
@richard_merren@mastodon.social avatar

@glynmoody That open letter wasn't "critical of coverage" or even focused on threats and dangers to journalists, but rather a demand that coverage use the most extreme, anti-Israel rhetoric possible. While it is normal to see terms like "genocide" and "apartheid" tossed around casually by armchair political scientists on social media and purveyors of propaganda, these words have actual meanings and definitions in the real world and similar use in professional journalism would be irresponsible.

glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

@richard_merren YMMV...

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren

You are correct that "'genocide' and 'apartheid'" "have actual meanings and definitions in the real world". That's what the journalists are calling for.

Let's check the open letter:
"We are renewing the call for journalists to ... use precise terms that are well-defined by international human rights organizations, including 'apartheid,' ... and 'genocide.'

"U.N. experts have warned ... yet Western outlets remain hesitant to quote genocide experts ..."

@glynmoody

richard_merren,
@richard_merren@mastodon.social avatar

@boud @glynmoody We agree that these journalists are specifically calling for those words, but we disagree that the words are appropriate.

Interesting choice of ellipsis in your final quote: glossing over the hedging language that the genocide experts alway use to avoid explicitly saying a genocide is happening. Pretending that this is a simple question with clear expert consensus and taking a hard position on "genocide" or "apartheid" would be irresponsible, biased journalism.

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren The genocide experts use careful language:

  • "... Investigate Israeli Crimes and Intervene to Deter Incitement to Commit Genocide in Gaza [1]

  • "Cumulatively the evidence firmly indicates that ... the Israeli state ... it is accurate to frame it as the annihilation phase of genocide." [2]

Expert tags in relation to the actions of the Israeli state:

@glynmoody

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20231031174452/https://www.addameer.org/sites/default/files/icc-letter-1697782247-pdf.pdf

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20240106140101/http://statecrime.org/international-expert-statement-on-israeli-state-crime

richard_merren,
@richard_merren@mastodon.social avatar

@boud @glynmoody Are you trying to make the point that there are people calling it genocide? Yes, that is true. There are also many reasonable people who are not willing to do so. You may not agree with them, but that's not the same as the responsibility of a newspaper. The letter says that the matter is definitive and it urges news organizations to unquestionably declare this "genocide" and "apartheid." This would be irresponsible for a news outlet, and the LAT was correct to reject that.

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren

1/2
In terms of sentencing at the [3], whether it's genocide or rather "just" a crime against humanity [4] doesn't change much. by the LATimes is no better than .

Ongoing war crimes by officials of the Israeli state - and by officials of the Palestinian state - should be reported on and not hidden.

@glynmoody

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court_investigation_in_Palestine

[4] https://web.archive.org/web/20231125022352/https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren
2/2 On "reasonable people": the most "reasonable" procedure for justice for war crimes||crimes against humanity||genocide is for all states to ratify the .

Palestine is party to the [5].

Among the rogue states that have effectively declared that they have "reserved the right" for their nationals to carry out war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide are:

  • Russia
  • China
  • Eritrea
  • USA
  • Israel
    ...

@glynmoody

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_parties_to_the_Rome_Statute

richard_merren,
@richard_merren@mastodon.social avatar

@boud @glynmoody You are more interested in dunking on Israel than discussing the varied opinions on the question of whether it it actually genocide or whether apartheid is a reasonable description. That's fine for a keyboard warrior who has made up his mind and wants to argue, but responsible newspapers will recognize that this is not a simple and settled fact. You are doing a great job of demonstrating the argumentative, propagandistic approach that this paper wants its reporters to avoid.

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren

Trying to focus on me rather than on the information is a fallacy - see [[WP:NPA]].

Responsible newspapers will not engage in or .

@glynmoody

==See also==

  • [6]
  • [7]

==References==
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Hamas_attack_on_Israel

{{2023 Israel–Hamas war}}
{{Portalbar|Israel|Palestine|Society|Genocide}}

richard_merren,
@richard_merren@mastodon.social avatar

@boud @glynmoody You are only interested in talking about why you don't like Israel. If you want to discuss this LAT issue, please feel free to chime in. Otherwise, have a nice day.

boud,
@boud@framapiaf.org avatar

@richard_merren

Again the same fallacy: I said absolutely nothing about whether I "like Israel" or not.

Thanks for the conversation.

@glynmoody

fkamiah17,
@fkamiah17@toot.wales avatar

@glynmoody WTF?!? I know there are a lot of people being silenced across various industries and academia - even losing their jobs - but this is beyond bleak.
I hope their subscriber numbers plummet.

glynmoody,
@glynmoody@mastodon.social avatar

@fkamiah17 yes, they've lost their minds over gaza...

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