The only peaceful way to prevent Trump from becoming President will be to beat him resoundingly at the ballot box. Peaceful but still an intense, effortful undertaking. I don’t know whether we will succeed, but I will do all I can to help.
@heidilifeldman Vote early if you can. Then volunteer to drive people to the polls on Election Day. If you have the time, serve as a Poll Worker. If you’re interested in that, contact your Elections Office right away to sign up for training.
@heidilifeldman no no no. come on. you're way to intelligent to say that's the only peaceful way. I'm really dissapointed with you right now. there are millions of peaceful ways and voting is only one of them. you're not thinking aggressively enough. expand the size and scope of your goals if you want to feel more confident in the outcome. I say this lovingly. I agree with just about everything you post but this one is a big mistake in my opinion.
@heidilifeldman i wish the Democratic party understood this and had spent the last 4 years trying to earn our votes instead of trying to be as bad as Republicans to earn Republican votes
Or they could have put trump in jail for running a coup
Instead the party cozied up the right wing, discriminated against trans people, crushed rail unions, allows union breaking nation wide, supports genocide, gave money to oil abd gas firms and treated Republicans with respect
@heidilifeldman i'll vote for biden but at this point, IMO, american democracy is done
we see, clearly, the inaction of the DOJ.. they are literally allwing an insurretionist to run for office & left his supporters who currently hold public office unprosecuted in any way. not even challenged.
we're done here, no matter who wins the next pres.
& biden's support of an apartheid state? just echoes of reagan. we've fallen so far. w climate change on our doorstep, i dont see us getting out of this
American democracy is certainly being sorely tested, but it is not done. You raise grave concerns, but the proof of the matter will be in the results of this election. The first step to securing our democratic future will be to soundly defeat the fascist candidates at every level of government. The presidency certainly, but if you want to see a real progressive future we need to elect strong majorities in the House, Senate and state governments too.
nah. i listen to too much sarah kendzior to believe we can vote our way out of gerrymandering, disenfrachisement, and the loss of the democratic party to corporate intersts.
we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. and tiime will definitely tell.
@heidilifeldman the problem with avoiding Trump peacefully is Trump supporters and their guns get to decide half of that equation. The only peaceful vote tally for them crowns Trump.
@heidilifeldman It just goes to show how people change over time. When I was younger, I was against hurling Republicans into space but, in the face of the modern GOP, my position has softened quite a bit.
@d_mayhood Yes, in fact we have done it twice with the popular vote, and once with electoral one - and that is why we in the U.S. should have confidence we can do it again.
@heidilifeldman I disagree: we have an example of what he is capable of after losing an election, and I do not believe there is any evidence to indicate he would behave any differently a second time.
What would cause him to begin to respect the voice of the people?
@educoder He won’t but I a resounding defeat at the ballot box will stiffen the spine of those who will ensure that whoever beats him (presumably Biden) takes office.
@heidilifeldman It’s unfortunate that it seems we are going disregard the constitution with regards to an insurrectionist trying to run for office. He is ineligible to hold office, as would be a 14 year old. Ignoring the law on this sets a very bad precedent.
Choosing to withhold speculation on this. Recommend reading @Teri_Kanefield on the subject.
It is going to be a long and bumpy year. Staying focused on political victory seems like a good strategy. If something else happens (disqualification or conviction) adjust, but what we know now is he will be the Republican nominee.
Looked at your (short) post history and can't tell whether you are a troll or sincere in your aggressively righteous stance. Assuming the latter, would suggest you are naive about what democracy is. It would be nice to be able to vote for what you want, but normally you vote to move the balance in the direction you want. If you can't have everything you want, you decide you're not going to vote, then you have removed yourself from the pitch.
Correct. No one needs to earn your vote. You need to vote for whomever you think will move the needle in your direction. Then do it again and again, hopefully moving it a little each time.
The point of democracy is that you get to have this little bit of input into the process, which is better than none, and in aggregate hopefully yields policy that is better than that of an autocrat or dictator.
Your votes should go to someone who is less bad. Voting for someone you want is a luxury. If it happens great, but most of your life will be spent making hard compromises.
Your vote does matter. Now more than ever, because if Trump is elected you will likely never get the opportunity to move the needle in the direction you want again. Not to mention the secret police etc.
They'd have not supported genocide, bombed yemen, signed anti trans rules, keep trumps anti immigration policies, coddled the gop, gave everything away to oil and gas companies then called it his climate bill
Oh and they'd have smacked the stupid out of Joe Manchins mouth day 1
If only it were that easy. Not saying that there are not weak links. There are. But political power is complex. Our system, does not permit these kinds of autocratic actions. You need strong, not razer thin, majorities. Then things can get done, but we are not there today. Right now we are fighting for our lives. Sorry that is frustrating, but it is reality.
Definitely signing off now. Want to thank you again for engaging on this topic. The views you express are of grave concern, because we need people like you more than ever now, and the concerns you vent are concerns many share. We are disillusioned, and yet we need to fight on. Progress will not come in big chunks, but in incremental steps which will establish the foundation for more progress. But we can get knocked back too. So vote.
Let's save these for another time. Need to 💤. But, if you spent any time in politics you learn that things that seem simple from the outside are very tough to do without sufficient power. And at least today, power comes from the strength of your majorities.
Final comment. Understand that you are worked up and you have every right to be, but expressing yourself with less invective might foster more quality engagement.
Where were you when I was in the street? Where was the party when immigrants were being caged? Where is this energy for abortion rights? Where was this energy around racial justice?
4 years of being too scared to fight trump and 4 years trying to pretend the fascists are normal
Glad you signed up. You seem very sincere and understand your frustration. It is very hard to feel like you are being forced to compromise your principles. But that is just a sorry fact of life. We didn't ally with Stalin in WWII because we liked them or wanted that form of government. It was because fascism was worse. We really do not want Trump's brand of fascism in the USA in 2024. That's the reality, and it sucks.
This energy has been spent struggling against a fascist insurgency in the US for the last twenty or more years, and we are not winning, so it is easy to get frustrated. But the alternative is terrifying, so we need to keep fighting. The margins are very thin, so we don't have the power we need to push them back. That's why we need to win bigger. So we can make begin to make the changes you want.
You are wrong here people are fighting against these things. It is just that that are not winning, because they don't have enough power. The reason the other side has the power is because they nominated extreme justices because they held the presidency and enough of the Senate. You could say that the Berners were to blame for that, but that is history now. We just need to get the judiciary back. It won't happen overnight.
They had both houses and the president then did nothing. They used people like Manchin and Sinema as enemies of the week to pretend like nothing can be done
If you want to talk courts, when trump nominated ACB no one in the party fought back. Feinstein hugged Lindsey Graham
Did they get rid of blue slips for circuit courts? No. So red states are blocking judges or biden nominates conservatives
Good example with Feinstein. She is a disappointment, but she held a seat that gave us a slim majority which is crucial. We need more than a slim majority so that we do not have to rely so much on these marginal actors. But we won't be in the position to do so if we throw in the towel.
So, got to sign off, but do want to thank you for airing your frustrations. Wish that the things you want were possible. Would love to be discussion clean energy future, human rights, transportation, education etc., but we have our backs to the wall. We don't want to be here, but here we are. The question is are you going fight or cut and run? Because, as frustrating as that is, that's what we need to take care of first.
What is the mechanism by which we go from Joe Biden ruling over our lives for half a century from the senate to Whitehouse to someone who doesn't suck ass?
Because all I'm getting is the left needs to support centrists without expecting any concessions or getting anything in return
Don't know how many, but it will be a lot more if Trump is elected and he effectively makes himself dictator. Again, then you will have more things to worry about, like the secret police etc.
Wish it were possible to say that you will someday get somebody who won't "suck ass", but at this point that looks unlikely for the immediate future. But you can vote for someone who won't put an armed military in the streets. That would be a better.
Trying to respond to each of your points, but the thread is getting confused.
In short, the answer is that people are fighting for these thing, but people are also fighting against them. You are frustrated with your team, because they are not winning, have not won. It doesn't work that way. Progress is incremental, if at all, and the forces against you are powerful too.
We just have to keep fighting. It sucks, but that's the only option.
Last word. Again, think you are wrong here. Good people are fighting very hard. It is just that they are not winning, so we need to fight harder. Your enthusiasm and passion is great, but reality bites. We are fighting a formidable enemy. Lack of progress is because that enemy is fighting too, and they are stopping the kind of progress you want. We need you to keep fighting, even if it takes the rest of your life. This is not one we can lose.
@heidilifeldman Such a victory would likely carry the House and Senate, which is the only path to actually reversing this slide into fascism and securing democracy for future generations.
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