zephyrleifrenner

@zephyrleifrenner@mastodon.social

I think therefore I am. I will eventually get around to taking a masked photo.

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augieray, to random
@augieray@mastodon.social avatar

My experiments going out with my CO2 monitor are discouraging. Tonight, with COVID in wastewater at its lowest in 11 months in my city, we went out to eat. We hoped for outdoor dining, but it rained, so we sat inside. CO2 readings:

4:30 pm: 50% crowd in a brewpub: 1548
5:45 pm: 75% crowd in a Mexican restaurant: 1341
7:45 pm: Long line at ice cream shop: 1896

I thought businesses upgraded air filtration & ventilation, but these readings encourage me to stay home. taught us nothing.

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray @TracyTThomas covid has become too infectious to need indoor concentrations to efficiently transmit. The short range exhale plumes are now thoroughly sufficient. So CO2 is no longer a meaningful proxy for safety. You can have excellent ventilation or filtration and one sick person briefly talking near you and that is it.

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray Low CO2 no longer proxies safe, even though high ambient CO2 always proxies potential danger. That study you posted about airplane flights is an example of this. Even in the presence of filtration the virus is now efficiently transmitting at short, fast range. You can also look at the WHO’s calculator; it will show that ventilation or cleaned air do nothing to change the very high short range transmission rate. @TracyTThomas

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray @TracyTThomas Spend some time with the WHO’s Airborne Risk Indoor Assessment calculator. It doesn’t give CO2 as an independent variable, but your experience with a CO2 meter will let you easily guess what the CO2 reading would be. You can model just about any human scale situation: volume of airspace, # people, activities, time, including ventilation and filtration rates and respirators. Watch the short range transmission.

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray @TracyTThomas WHO’s calculator: 30 people/1 infected, 900m3 room, sit silent for an hour, mingle and talk for 30 minutes. Zero ventilation yields a high CO2 level and 6 new infections, 21% risk. It points out that all are due to the 30 minutes of short range interaction. NOW increase the ventilation to an awesome 20 ACH yielding low CO2 and…. 6 new infections, 21% risk. Because short range interactions. Link: https://partnersplatform.who.int/tools/aria/calculator

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray @TracyTThomas Same people, same space. Vigorous activity and loud talking for 3 hours. Zero ventilation -> ultra high CO2 -> 18 new infections / 63% risk. NOW add 20 ACH -> low CO2 -> 18 new infections. CO2 makes no difference. NOW remove short range interactions. High CO2 -> 8 infections. Low CO2 -> 4 infections. So, without short range interactions the CO2 proxies risk, but with short range interactions CO2 is irrelevant.

randahl, to random
@randahl@mastodon.social avatar

Could anyone from Finland please educate me: If there is only one N in Finland, why are there two Ns in words derived from Finland like, Finn (a person from Finland) and Finnish (the word to characterise something as being from Finland)?

Yours Sincerely
Randahl from Denmark… who is not Dennish. 😀

zephyrleifrenner,

@randahl ethnonyms in English exist somewhere between what the people themselves use as their name, the English speaker’s idea, and a lot of history, so that gets complicated, but Finn is a non-standard spelling with history going back to Old English. Finland is a normalized spelling perhaps because compounding the word brings is more into English spelling norms. But apparently suffixing it to Finnish does not normalize it. Don’t lose 100 year wars if you want rational spelling.

zephyrleifrenner,

@osma @randahl I don’t know where Finn came from because as you point out the Finn’s don’t name themselves that. That history goes back to Old English and Old Norse (which were mutually intelligible, although slightly different). But regardless Finn gets treated as a foreign name that is treated as compromise in spelling and pronunciation with a foreign name.

zephyrleifrenner,

@osma There is a good chance that Finn is literally Old Norse. The island of Fyn (Funen) in Denmark has a similar name and way back Finland was the island filled area around Turku. @randahl might be better able to speculate on that a “modern Norse” speaker. (Of course it could be that the Old Norse borrowed someone else’s name for the area).

augieray, to random
@augieray@mastodon.social avatar

Shopping during is riskier than you might think. This interesting STUDY is locked behind a paywall, but the abstract is fascinating. It combined credit card data with testing data to track infections when people were in shops together.

“Exposure to an infected individual in a store is associated with a significantly higher infection rate in the following week… Transmissions between retail shoppers made a substantial contribution to the Covid-19 pandemic.”

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2317589121

zephyrleifrenner,

@augieray Which shows just how brief exposure from short range aerosols can be to infect.

juneipper, to random
@juneipper@geekdom.social avatar

My most covid-aware friend just caught "it's not covid!" for the second time this year. "I don't know where I got it from, I mask everywhere!" she bemoans, and in the next sentence mentions regular unmasked indoor visits with her neighbours.

  1. "Everywhere" doesn't mean what she thinks it means.

  2. This is why I never unmask around her, as "careful" as she claims to be.

zephyrleifrenner,

@juneipper I suspect this is a case of the strange psychology that friends family and neighbors can’t be treated as dangerous bad potentially sick people but strangers are danger. Humans are so bad at this.

zephyrleifrenner, to random

I apologize, but air filtration will not fix the pandemic. You will have to wear a respirator anytime you are close to people, or you will get covid. There is a lot we could do to make life easier once we accept this simple fact and get on with it.

zephyrleifrenner,

@pixplz Yeah… And we have fancy tools like the WHO calculator right now to show just how dangerous talking bare-faced near someone with covid is, no matter how amazing the HEPA filtration, but it has been obvious in napkin math since covid became extraordinarily infectious. It would be nice if there were more of a conversation about how to do life now, as opposed to raging against the people who won’t deliver clean air…

zephyrleifrenner, to random

Playing around with the WHO’s covid infection calculator. Created a school cafeteria. 333 kids in a very large room. 1 infection. 30 minutes. Out come 23 infected kids. No air filtration. Add air filtration. How many infections? 23. Increase the air changes, still 23. Short range transmission beats filtration. You know what makes that number go down. Respirators. To 0. Of course then you can’t eat in this cafeteria….

Rasta, to Apocalypse
@Rasta@mstdn.ca avatar

deleted_by_moderator

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    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Rasta it is an interesting question of philology why the possessive declension bears an apostrophe as though it is not a declension but rather a fully isolated appendage. The case of its (possessive) vs it’s (it is) shows that the contraction takes precedence. A comparable language like Danish that does not use an apostrophe for the possessive declension really shows how arbitrary that decision was.

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Rasta and it is interesting how they dumped the structure of both original languages. It became something almost gesticulated and spoken loudly. YOU pointing, GO pointing, TO THE STORE pointing. Preferring the emphatic pronouns over the conjugation. And first in the sentence to give context to the rest. Very rare conjugated verbs (with a slight preference for OE). Adverbs are a hoot. They didn’t exist. They were compounds ending in like. Pirate speak.

    currentbias, to random
    @currentbias@open-source-eschaton.net avatar

    "If long COVID is to be properly acknowledged then people may ask questions like:

    • Why they’ve been told things were safe when they aren’t

    • Why a generation of kids’ long term health has been gambled with

    • Where the financial support for those disabled is at"

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @GreySkies The sad thing in my experience is even when I tell people about these things, they are not interested in asking those questions, they are relieved to return to the “becoming a cold” denial. I’ve even had an unmasked doctor in an indoor crowd point out how masking is a smart idea… and carry on unmasked. Much of the problem is that people do not WANT to know what they already do know. @currentbias @dave

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @dave yeah. At this point the guilt for what they have done to others and themselves is unbearable. So the solutions are denial, projection of the blame onto someone else, or absolution, which is basically a nuanced form of projecting the blame onto someone else. So far denial appears to be the winning solution, but repeating Covid infections makes now an unstable state. @GreySkies @currentbias

    harold, to random
    @harold@mastodon.social avatar

    If your restaurant cannot be arsed to put in air filters and increase air ventilation, I cannot be arsed to eat there. Your lack of understanding means my lack of patronage. BTW, this means every restaurant within driving range.

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @harold there is no meal worth long covid. And the risk of somebody breathing on me from close range is too high regardless of the filter situation. So I can be arsed for takeout and takeout alone.

    augieray, to random
    @augieray@mastodon.social avatar

    "How long are you going to be cautious and wear masks?"

    How long are you going to be cautious about car accidents and wear seatbelts?

    How long are you going to be cautious about heart disease and keep exercising?

    How long are you going to care about bike accidents and wear a helmet?

    How long are you going to care about driving impaired and avoid drunk driving?

    The better question: When will you take care with ? After you're chronically ill due to your 6th infection?

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @augieray At this point people are in too far for chronic illness to bring them out. Can’t own the guilt. Illness will send them further into denial of covid as the cause and vilification of an innocent for their disease. The only thing that would work is a collectively agreed on absolution, something else that takes their guilt, washes the slate clean, so they can change behavior.

    croissant, to random
    @croissant@zeroes.ca avatar

    🌟 Saw some online comments about Isaac Haxton (poker player and N95 masker) and again confirmed that normal people sincerely believe that COVID is a) mild now and b) normal people shouldn't worry about it.

    I wish them the best of luck with their annual SARS infections.

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine Not enough fear yet. @croissant

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine Unless a whole lot of research is extremely wrong the FO to all this FA has begun, but it starts out slow, exponential curve like. Let’s put this in the right scale. The population of Central America after 1492 died by the tens of percents in waves that left 90% of them dead over 100 years. There’s no reason to think that is a high water mark never to be attained again. We still have the opportunity for fear. @croissant

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine @croissant Fun reading right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoliztli_epidemics

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine @croissant Check out the fun graph of population collapse. 1545 was one hell of a year. 15 million down to 3. 80% of the remaining population right there.

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine @croissant And fear by itself is just a motivator to all sorts of behavior. Wearing a mask may mark you as the cause of this curse, because you are surviving.

    zephyrleifrenner,

    @Lorrrraaaaine Perpetual, intense terror. That is probably a description of what it will take to get people to change their cultural expression to aerosol safety, and they need to know the perpetuity of the problem, but the terror will disappear once they get there. It will be replaced by intense disgust towards utterly barbaric aerosol filthy behaviors, about the same as towards showing genitalia in public or drinking from a toilet bowl. @croissant

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