Running your own e-mail server might seem complicated and geeky but will you trust those US based megacorps managing your digital existence once Trump gets elected? Especially when you’re not an US citizen? I decided many years ago.
So many services I use rely on my email address as the main source of truth and authority. So obviously I want to control that defining part of my digital existence.
@jwildeboer and Yunohost makes it so much easier, too, for example.
It still requires tech skills, of course. But I remember when running an e-mail system required almost dark magic. It's actually easier today, with the right tools.
@rysiek@jwildeboer What about emails being delivered? Is it easier now? My latest knowledge still has this image that, while hosting email software is relatively easy, getting them delivered is still pain in the ass?
@jwildeboer
Where do you host the server. Every 6-12 months somehow my IP address lands on some block list even though my server has never sent out spam.
And it is starting to become near impossible to even get a response when challenging the block. So I usually have to find yet another hostet that has IP addresses that aren't university blocked...
If you have a good hoster, please share. I'm looking, again 😞
@rysiek
Thanks for that reference.
They have a lot of different offerings.
Would you mind sharing what exactly (and where) you run.
DM would be great if you don't want to broadcast that...
@dirkhh yeah, but they also have a lot of oomph. So, instead of getting a bunch of cheaper virtual servers to run different services individually, I get one dedicated box and slap Proxmox VE on it to run whatever I need.
Their VPSes might also work for e-mail though, they do have static IPs I believe.
@rysiek even the server auction starts at essentially $400/yr
That's... a lot. But yeah, I get it. Could replace any number of VMs I have all over the place - but of course then it becomes even MORE painful if that IP ends up getting caught in some block.
@rysiek I used their dedicated servers for more than 15 years and was a very happy customer throughout all this time, but I have moved all my workloads (incl. mail - which might be worth to couple with a floating IP) a few years ago to their cloud instances which are cheap, performant and really easy to manage.
@dirkhh that's why I'd strongly recommend to use a floating IP from the very start, so in case it works without ending on blocklists, you can keep it even when reprovisioning the cloud instance behind it. @rysiek
@eliasp
Created an account, signed up, went through the extra authentication, bought a server and a floating IP. THEN, after all that, I get the notification that they ALWAYS block outbound 25/465 for all servers and that after a month with them I can ask nicely and MAYBE they'll allow me to use my server for the only purpose for which I bought it.
Um, yeah... great... thanks people.
Anyone from Hetzner here? I understand the idea, but also... not a great customer experience @rysiek
@dirkhh uh, damn! And this wasn't clearly stated anywhere in the sign-up process? That's a bummer!
As a legacy customer, I'm probably not affected by this and I don't remember ever having to ask for it, so this looks like a more recent change in policies.
After the suggestion here to reach out to Hetzner and link to this thread I did just that - I wrote a lengthy support ticket that explained the context, linked to this thread, and linked to the mail archive of the mailing list this is for (Subsurface).
Imagine my surprise this morning when I woke up to a message from Hetzner support that they unblocked the ports for me.
Well done, Hetzner - I appreciate that you even read that message! Now I'll need to configure everything :)
@eliasp
Yeah, this literally popped up after I spent an hour making it through the complicated and convoluted signup process, bought the server and the floating IP. If you then go to the networking tab, it shows the below - and the Docs state that you have to wait at least one month before you can request it.
Fun fact, I'm currently even blocked from asking about opening the ports. I'm thinking that even with a link to this thread I'd likely just damage my reputation with them - unless someone here knows a Hetzner employee that knows how to work around that 😀
My expectation is that I'll pay for this for a month and try again in March 🤷♂️
@jwildeboer
Lieber ein ordentlich konfigurierter Server eines amerikanischen Anbieters als ein dilettantisch konfigurierter Server eines Teilzeit-Admins.
@jwildeboer I've been running my own servers for decades, in conjunction with other mail services. It is increasingly problematic to keep running my own mail servers and be reasonably confident that all important email will be reliably received in both directions and not just vanish without any warning or other indications that there were issues, due to increasingly strict policies at major sites that can impact legit, non-spam email. The amount of manual effort required to keep this up has risen exponentially especially over the last few years. I do not really recommend it, even for techies.
Can get that point ...maybe using your own domain might be a good first step. If the service you use your domain misbehaves, you can easy move your domain to another service.
Maybe this can be a slow 'democratic' process:
If enough people run their own mailserver, the big companies might stop rating them as spam ... worth a try.
@dexternemrod@jwildeboer Not going to happen. They're going to keep tightening, and it will be ever harder to do your own. There's absolutely no incentive for moves in the other direction, given the regulatory environment.
@dexternemrod@jwildeboer That would simply result in laws requiring all but the majors to be completely shut down, because only the majors would be seen as having the resources to control these problems, and any percentage of bad actors in the "minor" sector would be seen as a condemnation of the entire sector.
@jwildeboer@lauren Same experience for me, with the two differences being (1) at my work we host physically from our office in a residential area, and (2) after setting up SPF I uhh haven't bothered with DMARC. Or DKIM? I did one of the two but not the other, I remember that much, and it hasn't been enough of an issue ever for me to be reminded of which or even to read up on what either really are.
@keithzg@jwildeboer I did SPF way back and did DKIM/DMARC late last year due to the Gmail changes. My large policy mailing lists (one running over 30 years) could potentially run afoul of the new restrictions at times otherwise. Most unpleasant.
@jwildeboer@keithzg Actually it's getting harder and harder to do. ISPs are decreasingly willing to open port 25 under any circumstances. That's the end of the game.
@jwildeboer on how much you send out. When your volume goes up, you can have delivery problems and never know it due to the way some ISPs just accept the email and trash it. My policy mailing lists, one of which has been running over 30 years, can generate a significant volume at times, enough to trigger Gmail's new rules in any case.
@lauren@jwildeboer 100% this. Running your own private server now is basically impossible as the big players are acting as gatekeepers. You just have to choose the least evil of the available main players.
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