Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

The first rule of Space Vikings is that ships are faster than information.
Otherwise you're battling not raiding.

peterdrake,
@peterdrake@qoto.org avatar

@Hcobb I still love the #traveller X-boat network.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@peterdrake @Hcobb

It makes sense. If your scifi universe lacks a faster than light radio, then you will need FTL courier starships like an outer space pony express.

https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/telecommunication.php#messaging

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @peterdrake Great for dealing with an invasion in depth, but whataboutism against Space Viking raids on the frontier?

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @peterdrake

Oh, they would probably be utterly useless.

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @peterdrake Perhaps you could have scouts in oort clouds past your frontier that jump in when they see the raider refueling?

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar

@Hcobb

Or have automated ships ready to jump to warn central systems or fight the intruders (but this may imply some kind of AI 😓 and would-be berserkers ready to attack any perceived enemy).

@nyrath @peterdrake

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake Get all the civilians under the guns of your forts while you send a messenger to summon the cavalry?

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar

@Hcobb

Perhaps, but do you have enough firepower to defend your forts and people inside them?

@nyrath @peterdrake

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake But this is NOT a military attack. This is viking/piracy activity for the purposes of net profit, not land grabs. Crushing the defenses at a higher cost than the final plunder provides is a clear loss.
Defense in depth with mobile revenge forces is the military route.

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb

Another approach was used in Legend of the Galactic Heroes - remove all resources from the frontier worlds, so the liberators have nothing to liberate (other than hungry locals).

This strategy would have been political disaster for the Democratic side, but for the Imperials the locals simply had no realistic choice but to comply.

1/2

@eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb

If transport costs make it impractical to hoover all the resources from frontier worlds, an alternative is to torch the resources rather than let them be plundered.

The resources are stored with "self destruct" flame throwing and/or flooding systems. So, the raiders can't steal the resources.

Of course, if you compensate the victims when the burn system is activated, this sets up perverse incentives to game the system ...

2/2

@eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@isaackuo @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake Rome and China simply paid the raiders to go away, worked until it didn't.

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar
Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@eldadoinquieto @Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @nyrath @peterdrake Some sort of SciFi meme journal with an article that considers a spectrum from Somali Pirates to the Sea People in Space?
Or at least a YouTube channel.

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @isaackuo @nyrath @peterdrake I am working on an adventure with a space horde, and the players have to take an emissary to them in order to see if they can find a way to bribe them not to attack. I figure the idea is that if the bribe is cheaper than mobilizing military forces, its preferable. If that is not possible, pay one part of the horde to protect them from others.

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt

The bribe has to be significantly cheaper, because it funds the continued operations of the space horde - making it easier for them to do it again, and also incentivizing them to do so.

In contrast, military action depletes resources from the space horde and incentivizes them to do something else or go elsewhere.

Of course, it's also possible to use a bribe to buy some time, to build up a more credible deterrent. It's not a binary.

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@isaackuo True, and the Earth is only now getting over the unity war they had, and the prime minister basking in the lime light of being peace maker, they are not hot to start talking about a threat on the frontier. Plus the fear if they make their own military forces too strong in the area to deal with the threat, that then those forces become the threat if they decide to coup the government. Plus the avg Earther wants to live a life of luxury ...

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt

A non-military deterrent might be possible. I mentioned the idea of threatening to burn stored resources rather than allow them to be plundered.

Various difficulties like getting local buy-in to the strategy are left as an exercise for the players.

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@isaackuo @Robert_Brandt @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake Are you bribing all of the pirates or just their elites?

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @isaackuo @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake This is a good question. One would think their leaders, then again that could be a complication if the group breaks up, because some do not feel they are getting their fair share. Another "bribe" or incentive, could be for the Earth to throw it's military power behind one group to help them control the others, thus only needing a minimum of force to accomplish their goals.

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @isaackuo @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake

Map of the area (bottom right corner is Earth territory):

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar

@Robert_Brandt @Hcobb @isaackuo @nyrath @peterdrake

Surely Winchell's Atomic Rockets section about space piracy will be helpful here:

https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/pirate.php

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@eldadoinquieto @Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @nyrath @peterdrake Gotta question about the logic in boarding actions.
Real space stations: Lots of vital stuff bolted to the inner walls within easy reach of repairs or bullets.
Real submarines: ditto
SciFi: Plan white corridors with nothing vital within blaster shot.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @peterdrake

Absolutely. Lotta stuff bolted to the walls, especially pipes and power lines. Narrow corridors, no Star Trek hotel hallways in ships. If you have a long-arm and you try turning around, it will catch on the walls. Lots of hatches where hostiles can unexpectedly emerge behind your back. And the walls will amplify gunfire sound enough to cause hearing damage.

https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmintro.php#hulled

https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmslug.php#earprotect

60sRefugee,
@60sRefugee@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @peterdrake I'd rather the walls were covered with cables, conduits and pipes than hide them all behind false ceilings and panels that would give cover to alien infestations.

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @isaackuo @peterdrake Grenades are your friend for room clearing.

eldadoinquieto,
@eldadoinquieto@mastorol.es avatar
Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@eldadoinquieto @nyrath @Hcobb @isaackuo @peterdrake True, doors and corners, like in the expanse. Though one can also give a boost to the use of lasers, as they do not ricochet.

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @isaackuo @peterdrake Any laser pistol will incapacitate the crew through blinding with minimal impact on ship systems.

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @isaackuo @peterdrake Plus a laser's short range is not at a disadvantage, also lack of recoil.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @isaackuo @peterdrake

Your team had better be wearing anti-laser goggles. The combat zone is full of reflective objects. You could accidentally friendly-fire your team's eye balls. Or your own for that matter.

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath

In the meantime Matt Murdoch is running around lasing everyone and everything everywhere like a madman, maniacally laughing.

@Robert_Brandt @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @peterdrake

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@isaackuo @nyrath @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @peterdrake Now I am thinking of a spinning laser on a drone.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @peterdrake

Or a stationary laser aimed at a rotating disco ball

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @isaackuo @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @peterdrake That's awesome, a gun that fires a disco ball on a lanyard, then hits it with a laser; a room clearing weapon. A new meaning to "Everybody get down!"

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath Must resist urge to write Disco Space Opera with dancing sandworms.

Hcobb,
@Hcobb@spacey.space avatar

@nyrath @Robert_Brandt @eldadoinquieto @isaackuo @peterdrake Compare with maser weapons that pass harmlessly through flesh (microwave ovens need to surround meat with very effective mirrors to bounce over and over again through it) but mess up the robots.

isaackuo,
@isaackuo@spacey.space avatar

@Hcobb

This is why you use remote detonated mini squash head warheads.

First you shoot the squishy sticky squash heads at the target. Then you designate one to detonate (it has flashing LED to indicate it's the one primed to detonate).

Then you remote command it to go boom, mitigating collateral damage.

@eldadoinquieto @Robert_Brandt @nyrath @peterdrake

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar

@isaackuo @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @nyrath @peterdrake Simultaneously transmitting "I am a mini squash head warhead, I will detonate on command!" To terrify the onlookers.

nyrath,
@nyrath@spacey.space avatar

@Robert_Brandt @isaackuo @Hcobb @eldadoinquieto @peterdrake

I'm a thirty-second bomb!
I'm a thirty-second bomb!
Twenty-nine
Twenty-eight
Twenty-seven...

(From Starship Troopers by Heinlein)

Robert_Brandt,
@Robert_Brandt@spacey.space avatar
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