Not really meaning for this to sound as arrogant as it’s going to, but… Lemmy is almost entirely populated by nerds so far.
Nerds tend to be open to tech, maybe a little smarter overall. You know? You can tell by the grammar, the spelling. It’s a different group here.
Reality is left leaning, and the stupider someone is, in general, the more likely they are to lean right politically. The rest of the right are the really rich, who tend to be up the psychological spectrum toward sociopathic, so of course they would have no time for caring for others’ needs.
There’s a huge contingent of socialist/leftist techies. How do you think the open source movement happened? The most popular operating system for both servers and smartphones is given away to the world by a .org
overwhelmingly tech dudes with no social competencies.
Ablism, real nice.
I am really not liking what you are throwing down and I am not seeing evidence of your multiple assertions. I am fairly leftwing, been an engineer for 15 years, I don’t enjoy dealing with companies that are run by rightwingers but I am not going to do a purity test.
Stop with the discrimination against the high functioning autistic at least. I am sorry your glowing rectangle provider who let you unlock it but that is hardly our fault.
i’m high functioning; so maybe that’s why i don’t understand how people get triggered by broad brush statements. what made you think that this statement was ablism instead of a simple broad brush?
i didn’t think you were being an ablist either and, since it pertains to me, i wanted to understand why the other person thought you were being an ablist.
incel also pertains to me because i’m convinced that if i were straight, it would perfectly describe me. however the name/title is clearly sourced from some sort of privileged condescension since it’s meant as an insult and i can’t apply to people like me in name only; do you have any links you can share so i can read up on that pipeline?
googling it only provides slightly more information on bannon’s work history and has zero mention of any attempts to cater to incels; is there something in particular linking incels to that feedback loop?
Oh your feelings were hurt after you stereotyped me? Boo freaken hoo
I am not an incel. I have been with my wife for 13 years. My eldest is 9. Before I met her I did more than alright in dating, thank you very much.
I am not right-wing. I consider myself a centralist but in practice I vote democratic the vast majority of the time.
I have never found crypto to be impressive but yeah I do have a few hundred in it because meh why not? I bought 20 bucks worth years ago and didn’t sell.
As I explained to you I don’t exactly get veto power over my clients and I am not in a position where I can storm off when Koch comes by with an order. If you want a fucking purity test go work for that overpriced ice cream place in Vermont. Just don’t come crying to me when they make you watch videos about issues you disagree with. I live in the real world where it isn’t realistic to only do business with people who 100% agree with me on every issue and have never ever done something wrong.
It’s funny how you demand this from me but wouldn’t yell at some guy working at a McDonald’s for filling Cheney’s order. Shows how consistent you are but demand that I be more consistent. Hypocrisy.
Must be nice on that high horse. You go enjoy yourself. I am going to deal with the real world, warts and all.
I’m not saying there are no right-wing tech nerds, I’m saying that your argument that tech nerds are right wing is overly reductive.
You concede my point about FOSS but then try to muddy the waters from there by citing “their platforms started getting cracked down on and [their having] adopted cryptocurrency” to try to make your prior pidgeon-holing still work. Mind citing me a source for either of those claims? Neither of those seem to me to be issues plaguing the wider FOSS community, and as a participant I’m interested to hear about this news I’ve apparently missed.
Silicon Valley is not representative of tech nerds in general. It is, like Hollywood, a small area filled with desperate people trying to turn their talents into fame and fortune. Insinuating that tech nerds in general have the same culture as Silicon Valley is like insinuating that actors in general dress, act, and think like Hollywood actors do. It’s ridiculous on its face.
All this to say it really sounds like you’ve built up a stereotype based on what you read in the news rather than by engaging with the actual community in question.
I wasn’t asking if right-wingers love crypto, but about what you were arguing about the FOSS community having “their platforms … getting cracked down on and [their having] adopted cryptocurrency”, which sounds an awful lot like a specific claim or two.
I literally still have no idea which events you’re referring to, unless you’re just saying “but crypto exists”. I mean, we’re on a FOSS platform right now.
Nice strawman, though. Honestly pretty ironic that you’re implicitly accusing me of arguing in bad faith when you’ve misrepresented my question so entirely.
I asked you to establish the truth value of your claims about the FOSS community 1) adopting crypto and 2) being cracked down on. That’s not sealioning. I genuinely had no idea what you were talking about and I’m in the FOSS community.
Even with this correction I think you’re maybe referring to RedHat being shitty with regards to going corporate, which is a bit silly since they’ve always been the corporate-friendly for-profit Linux company. I mean it is worse than it had been but it’s hardly indicative of a trend across the entire community.
I honestly still have no idea what you’re alluding to WRT the FOSS community adopting crypto, though. Blockchain stuff I get, it was a trendy technology and IPFS is neat and all, but I’ve seen no trend towards cryptocurrency in the general FOSS community. Like what, did Apache mint some NFTs? Tell me what you’re alluding to so I can Google it, even, if you’re too lazy to send me a link.
Your strawman (from my perspective) was the reframing of my request as needing proof that “right-wingers love crypto projects” which was not what I was asking about at all. You decided that I was sealioning because I called bullshit on your claims about trends in the FOSS community, from my perspective. That seemed to me an awful lot like misrepresenting my argument in order to dismiss it out of hand, so, y’know, a strawman.
I wouldn’t call them nerds because they’re venture capitalists not nerds. Nerds implies some sort of technological or engineering skill or ability. Steve Jobs would qualify; not these two.
Well first off software isn’t just flowing rectangles connected to internet tubes. Many of us work in Industrial/Chemical/Civil control systems. Like me. There is a lot of thought that goes into making sure what you flush doesn’t just pour on the ground. I made a decision early in my career that it was more important to me that we don’t drown in our own waste vs making sure slack integrated well with outlook.
As for how I would go about changing stuff the answer is I do it everyday. Can do it a lot faster if the rest of you people stayed the hell out of my way.
Do you realise how dehumanising and ignorant you’re being? You’re just using stereotypes of your specific country to generalise everyone you disagree with.
Underestimating your “rivals” never goes well, as reality is often more complex than “we empathetic genuises they dumb psychos”
If anyone is basing their morals specifically just to go against their “rivals”, I would seriously question that person’s ethics, empathy, and reasoning skills. I’m absolutely serious about that. I would not trust that person in real life.
I would also have little sympathy for anyone who makes their own life worse just to get one in on their “rivals”. You should always think how a new law might expand in 5-10 years, and not just focus on the current emotions.
If someone who you considered to be a truly terrible person got into power next, would you feel comfortable with those groundwork protections being seen as changeable? Would you be ok with that terrible person having that level of say over your life, knowing that they would get away with it?
If you hypothetically start messing with things like your country’s ground-level human rights, it’s likely to only be a matter of time until everyone is effected by it in unpleasant ways. Everyone thinks these changes will magically stop before it hits them, but I would strongly recommend for these people to brush up on history again. How has that gone in the past?
Politics shouldn’t be some lame “gotcha” game because politics effect the real lives of many people. If anyone wants to do “gotcha” games, there are many places for those that won’t possibly end with someone dead. That “someone” may be a stranger today, but it could be your child, spouse, or best friend next time.
Not even close. Do you project this anger on complete strangers all the time?
I was referring to things like labor law changes. It’s fine when it’s someone else to a lot of people, but those people are silly to think that their jobs would be the one exclusion.
Your memory is awful, or you haven’t been on it that long and are just making up its history to suit yourself. The earlier days of reddit’s politics were mostly liberal. Although liberals were significantly more awful on social issues back then than they are today.
The super rich are usually highly educated but they live in such a homogenous bubble that they’re opinions on the majority of society should be entirely discounted. They usually have a total lack of empathy for people and vote for politicians with the same attitude. I have met some super rich people who try very hard to go against the grain and not fall into that mindset, but something about the need for protecting your money and lifestyle usually promotes an untrustworthy and skeptical view of everyone in their lives including their own family.
To an extent. But whenever there is a political discussion on Hacker News, the lib right response is very, very loud, and I try to remind myself I appreciate Hacker News for its tech news.
I think the culture is just different. Lemmy was started and run by Tankies. Hacker News was started by Y Combinator, which incubates silicon valley startups. They're going to attract different audiences, or at least different groups of people who will put up with different politics. I can't claim to be particularly upset about the .ml domains being pulled and the center mass of Lemmy moving away from those instances.
I had to look it up too. Apparently it’s an authoritarian leftist. Thinks state-socialism was a good thing. As while most leftists are more of the democratic, market, and anarchist varieties.
I'd say most people are Chinese, but that's not correct - a quarter of the world's population is East Asian. This is the largest group in the world.
So, I'd say that's an odd quantifier that doesn't really seem to have any support or credibility or relevance. Seems based on entirely nothing, actually. Further more, were that true or even possible, what's your point?
State socialism is a good thing, what tankies promote is something else, they’re fascist that can’t accept that fact because it would mean having something in common with the fascists in the USA, a country that they hate so much that they’re ready to deny reality to have an anti USA opinion.
I’m confused, and you seem to be a lot more familiar with the term. I read the wiki link that explains tankies. I don’t personally know any left leaning people who support Russia/Stalin/China regimes. Maybe because of my America-centric viewpoint and where things are today, but typically people who are economically left are also socially and politically left (equal opportunity is more important than individual freedoms), which is very anti-fascist. I’ve heard people say how great a true communism could be if it were possible, but no one’s ever made it past a dictatorship to get there.
Are tankies people who are economically left but socially and politically right, and think someone has achieved a communist utopia without knowing anything about the corrupt oligarchies in Russia or CCP China?
Congratulations: That, and only that, is a tankie. It is a good practical defintion for the term.
Are tankies people who are economically left but socially and politically right
As I see it, tankies are just the same as the Trumpers. You can’t really say where they stand socially and politically, because they do not have a coherent opinion or ideology. Everyone who opposes their favorite regime is WRONG, and everything their favorite regime does is RIGHT. Bonus points for every action and opinion that hurts “woke lefties”, because the favorite regimes of tankies are all inevitably incompatible with progressive ideas and ideologies.
without knowing anything about the corrupt oligarchies in Russia or CCP China?
Imagine the answer a Trumper would give when you ask them if they don’t know about Trump’s corruption and character. The tankies answer just the same in response to allegations in regard to corruption and character of their favorite regimes:
First of all, none of that is true, because the woke lefties, the media, and everyone are all corrupt, and lying. And what is true, is all a well played move of brilliant 5D chess which will save us all, because the supposed “corruption” is actually all part of a very smart and deliberate system of ploys and strategems which the woke lefties just don’t understand.
Now, do the tankies and Trumpers truly believe that? Who knows. Doesn’t really matter anyway. What is clear is that both of those “ideologies” are dumb idiots.
The confusion comes from so much mass media that equates socialism with communism. They’re orthogonal concepts! Saying socialism is the same as communism is like saying beer-making is exactly the same as cheese-making. Anyone who understands what beer and cheese are would be like, “I’m sorry, what‽”
The best way to think of socialism is that’s it’s a governance strategy that can be used wherever you want. Want everyone to pay taxes in order to fund and deliver government-run firefighting services? That’s socialism. Want to do the same with the military? Socialism. Whenever the government is delivering some good or service by way of taxpayer dollars that’s socialism.
Capitalism and communism are economic systems. You can have socialist government constructs under either capitalism or communism. It’s just that communism doesn’t really have the flexibility to provide goods or services in any other way than via the government.
Then there’s countries like China that claim to be communist (and the Right loves to call them that) but really, they’re more capitalist than communist. What they do have that most communists and fascist governments have is authoritarianism.
That authoritarianism is what fascists and “tankies” have in common: Fascists support an authoritarian, pseudo-capitalist government while “tankies” support an authoritarian, pseudo-communist government.
The problem is not state socialism, it's the authoritarian side of it. Tankies promote authoritarian views similar to fascists but with a different economics view (not even that different some times), hence they prefer the dictatorships like USSR (in these days even Putin, which is idiotic), North Korea, China; over what they perceive as imperialist, the USA (I agree on calling it imperialistic and disliking it, but not on considering it worse than dictatorships).
I'm a communist which likes state socialism, but what is and was present in those dictatorship (ignoring the authoritarian side which I despise) is state capitalism.
Not really, communism is about owning the produce of your work, that can be achieved in different ways, one for example (the main one) is by democratising the work place, which at the moment is run in a feudal and authoritarian manner. Where you work and your employer owns what you do, similar to how the feudal system would function.
In this case communism would be more democratic than our current system.
They’re authoritarian. Not fascist. There is a difference. Even if both groups are more dedicated to authoritarianism than anything else. I would not be caught dead voluntarily anywhere with a fascist. While I disagree heavily with ML communist I might associate with them a little bit. But just never give them power.
The political vibe on Lemmy isn’t really a new thing. Reddit had it 15 years ago. Good forums and IRC channels had it before that. It’s been part of the “golden age” of every online social medium
Eventually, teenage edgelords find start taking up too much space. Shortly after that, the far-right turn up to prey on them.
The people who made the platform good in the first place leave and the cycle begins anew.
I know this was a joke Colbert made, but the truth is the reverse: the left is reality-leaning. It’s truly terrifying to see how divorced from reality the right-wing is, and how gleefully they just keep storming in that direction.
By definition, people with a conservative mindset are less open to change and new experience.
Federated social media is still in the new and formative stage. So it is not shocking it is still dominated by those more open to new experiences. But don't be surprised if that shifts if/when Lemmy/kbin reach critical mass.
Came here to say this. The most literal definition of the word conservative in the context of the party is “to conserve old ways”. They are resistant to change by definition.
Leftists use change as a tool to try to make things better. They’re naturally more likely to embrace something new.
Although I find it odd that conservatives today tend to have the most radicalized agenda out of all - yeah I mean there are some outright communists, but their numbers are like at most single-digit population percentages, whereas in the USA and UK and Russia and such they pretty much are the majority of people (hehe, in Russia the votes somehow outnumber the population even...:-P).
i.e. at one point they were conservative, and they still claim to be, even while wanting to change e.g. from a voting democracy to a totalitarian regime. But it changes every couple of years so it's really hard to keep up - e.g. in the USA GW Bush was an actual progressive (like, feed poor people), but then came the Tea Partiers, ousted by the Alt Right, which is no longer considered extreme enough and on and on it goes... (as the song continues: where it will stop, nobody knows:-).
This actually makes a lot of sense. A lot of people are using Lemmy either because they prefer federated web platforms to centralized, which makes it antithetical to corporate interests, or because they’re opposed to Reddit’s API policy, which was a blatant move to squeeze more money out of their users. Either way, Lemmy’s appeal is very anti-capitalist, and since opposition to capitalism is a generally left-wing philosophy, I can totally see why most Lemmy users would be left-wing.
Honestly I came here just a few days ago, right after Reddit admins removed that r/place guillotine. I wouldn’t say that I am very far to the left, but I do enjoy living in something close to a social democracy. I wouldn’t be happy in a place like the United States for example.
Maybe Lemmy was like this at the very start and is what helped Lemmy kick off, but I think a lot of people are looking for an alternative to Reddit. I think you’re going to see a lot more people coming here for the content, not the politics of it all.
This is my thought as well. Lemmy isn’t what everyone is looking for. It’s a free open source software project for creating a decentralized federated network of content aggregators. For most people that sentence doesn’t make any sense nor do they really care. They just want a site they can doom scroll for hours.
The people who choose to use Lemmy are people who care about open source projects, care about decentralization of online platforms, or both. These types of people by their very nature support groups of people coming together collectively to do something big.
A collection of people working together towards a common goal without a strict hierarchy. You could say these people are community focused. Maybe we could call that communityism or something. Where people make rules as a group, or a union you could say. So yeah, no idea where the left lean is coming from.
“communityism” was somewhat the goal of reddit by having subreddits but still site owners has all the control over you. Lemmy is a free software and many free software projects interact with the userbase with such a community. Before this reddit thing, Free software enthusiasts used lemmy. Same goes with mastodon users before twitter was bought by elon. Now i can see when whatsapp does something shit(maybe) and people porting over to federated and decentralised E2EE matrix for instant messaging.(or maybe they just switch to telegram)
Broadly speaking, so-called conservative folk are not creative. They resist change, and trying new things is umm trying new things.
Weirdos like me LOVE CHANGE and novelty so you can probably guess which direction I lean.
Trans and queer and furry and weird folk are often programmers and creative folk. ActivityPub is written largely by and for queer and trans and furry folk. So no surprise it’s so strongly supportive of individual expression and rights.
Is anyone surprised that everything the chump crowd touches fails?
That’s not really true. The right created Gab, and Ruqqus, and Voat. And they managed to hijack the U.S. legal system which the left can barely understand, let alone influence in any appreciable way.
A good chunk of the left (not the Dems, the actual left) understands the US legal system. It’s just that it’s hard to win in a pay-to-play system when everyone who can pay is against you.
I do not speak for this platform, but what I mean with Nazis here, are people who support the exclusion, inhumane treatment or exploitation of arbitrary groups of people, generally for the Nazi’s (perceived) benefit and in spite of basic morals.
And what would exclusion, inhumane treatment and exploitation mean? It’s key to clearly define the concepts before applying the label to someone, as if they stay undefined everyone can have the label applied
Right, so another policy from the early days of Lemmy that I thought was quite vital: No endless discussions on what precisely constitutes Nazi behaviour.
It’s truly not hard to not be a Nazi. And if someone is even roughly in the ballpark of being a Nazi, the community as a whole just doesn’t care to have that person’s input here.
Which is a roundabout way of saying that I do not think, it’s relevant to clearly define these terms.
Then I’m happy to be wrong (fewer Nazi sympathizers is always better), and you have nothing to worry about. But that you consider a potentially over-broad definition of Nazism a major problem in this political climate suggests that even if you are antifascist, your priorities are skewed.
Why is “I don’t like authoritarianism” so hard to understand? With a number of exceptions I can count with one hand, I’d support social democracy if it has a decent welfare and economic freedoms. However, it’s a priority to stomp down on monopolies, as they’re nothing more than an obstacle to fair economic competition
They just have their own instance and are defederated by some but not all, which is the best solution as it means they stick to their part of the fediverse instead of hijacking subs that weren’t right leaning in the first place.
Yeah, right-wingers flock to “safe-spaces” as much as the far-left does. Lemmy doesn’t have the tools to make a single community isolated like they could on Reddit, so they have to go to their own instances and end up defederated.
The main differences between left-wing and right-wing communities is that the right-wing ones quickly deteriorate towards a lot of hate related things. This leads them to being isolated from the rest. The left wingers are mostly tolerable and are just over zealous in preaching things like forcing everyone to use pronouns, lmao.
That’s the important bit. The creators of Lemmy needed to be hard leftist to keep it from being taken over by right wingers before it could become popular. Now it’s big enough that the community isn’t as leftist as the creators, but will still reject turning into another voat.
I’m liberal. Non techy. The week of the blackout i googled ‘Reddit alternatives’, clicked a few buttons, made a name and password, and that was it. I don’t get why so many fedders think it’s too difficult for others. It’s a hell of a lot easier than Pinterest. I still don’t get that shit.
If you consider reality to be an echo chamber, I guess. But I think a better definition of an echo chamber would be all of the conservative based subs that churn out the same provenly false bullshit over and over.
It’s funny how people think both this and states 4chan has always been rightwing since 2000s. The truth is your political bias says nothing about your intelligence. Stating otherwise just looks like boosting one’s ego to me.
Also the reason you don’t see right wing opinions on Lemmy is probably by and large because the right wing instances are being defederated by larger left-leaning Lemmy instances. Not saying if thats wrong, but that’s just how it is.
I think there’s a wide range of people on Lemmy too but the extreme right and extreme left have ended up on instances that have been defederated from the main group. So what you’re seeing are the sensible, rational people, and in America such people are considered left wing I guess 😉
I always hear people say that but I can’t figure out why; in some ways, Europe is more right wing (specifically anti-immigrant) than the US. Can you give any examples?
Agreed, although many people claim that Britain is increasingly privatizing their healthcare. I suppose I’m just saying that the American right simply cares about different issues than the European right.
I was using that as an example, because it’s a pretty central point of the different mindsets.
It is literally like the right here is similar to the American left (liberals/democrats). Anything remotely like the Republicans would be not just extreme right, but VERY extreme right here. Here right wing Republicans are mostly viewed as somewhat insane, and there are almost no moderate republicans left, if the image we get from the media can be somewhat trusted.
And yes extreme right does exist, but the equivalent of the 50% rightwing (republicans) in USA, would probably only be 10% of the population in most of Europe.
The differences regard many things for instance the right here still believe in minority rights, healthcare for all, social benefits, environment, abortion rights (except Poland and Hungary), and many other issues. They were simply just too many to mention, so I found your question very strange.
For instance we have basically no climate change deniers here. We also don’t have nearly the same extreme Christian right here, that you do in the USA, libertarians are also rare, in USA it’s seens as sensible even moderate. Here it’s very extreme.
The anti immigrant popularity here has a few reasons. For instance we have many more muslims, and we don’t want muslims to become what the Christian right is in USA, also we have way higher social benefits, and we don’t want that system stressed and reduced in quality for the rest of us. Muslims haver a very poor adaptation rate. In USA emigrants basically have to adapt or die, they are contractually obligated to not receive benefits.
Still it seems to me the American right is at least as xenophobic as the European.
You’re absolutely clowning if you think you have the breadth of data available to confidently make such an assessment. This is, ironically, an incredibly Reddit moment.
I once got dogpiled in r/lsd of all places for saying employers shouldn’t be allowed to drug test for thc. I got swarmed for “being a druggie” in a sub about lsd.
I quit reddit for good not too long after that. What a fucking shithole.
Post 2016, the worldnews/geopolitics subs that I follow on reddit have become nonstop sinophobic and anti-China hate subs. Prior to 2016, there were a lot of complaining about Chinese tourists and kids that shit on the streets, but after Trump got elected the cold war rhetoric went into full effect.
This got worse during and after Covid19, especially in America, Canada, and parts of Europe.
The cold war propagandizing is just so incredibly prevalent on reddit. It’s like people forgot what the cultural/business relationship between the US and China looked like prior to 2016.
I didn’t fully express how I feel about this. Pre 2016, China was viewed as an economic rival. Post 2016, China is viewed as an adversary.
Being anti-China is something both the Left and the Right can agree on, but for different reasons. The left are anti-China based on China’s human-rights violation and “anti-democratic” behavior during the 2018 Hong Kong protests, and in the Xinjiang region. The Left has also traditionally been anti-China based on how China has treated Tibet, popularized by Brad Pitt, Richard Gere, and Hollywood in general.
The Right is anti-China because tHeY tOoK oUR jOBs.
It benefits both the Left and the Right to be anti-China right now.
Speaking of Hollywood and how they viewed China pre-2016… Matt Damon was in a Chinese movie called The Great Wall. Movies like Her and Looper envisioned a far future where China represented wealth and success. We make memes about John Cena and bing chillin, but he was learning Chinese at the peak of his career because even he could see the market value of China’s growing middle class. In my city, Chinese Mandarin was being taught as an elective in high school alongside Spanish and French. Culturally, we were preparing for “The Pacific Century,” but now all of a sudden we’ve switched gears and are in full blown cold war mode… and people are willing to accept that.
Centralized power is authoritarian. Authoritarianism isn’t exclusively right. In fact the right/left dichotomy is a simplification of politics that belongs in the stone age. People have different values across a range of issues, that often don’t fit a specific mold.
I disagree 100%. The right is defined by the consolidation of political and economic power. Yes, every one has different values, but each of those values can easily be plotted somewhere on a scale depending on the way they favor decentralization/centralization. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong or accusatory about that.
centralisation of power is not an inherently right or left wing ideal, and some of the largest left wing communities on the fediverse are practically or outright authoritarian
the centralising power thats being opposed being a profit oriented organisation does make it more of a leftist thing, though still not exclusively
I’d say it is the definitive distriction between left and right. These concepts mean things to me on a vacuum. Show me a “left wing community” that is authoritarian and I’ll show you a community that isn’t actually leftist.
Ok but if you want to discuss politics with me in any way, which you seem to want, your need to know what I mean when I say words. Maybe get out of the kitchen?
And yet here you are. Isn’t that convenient for you? Just fuck off of you don’t want to talk, this isn’t an airport. You didn’t even say you didn’t want to have a discussion, you just didn’t want to get into sensitive.
I don’t care if your interested in semantics, they were necessary to the discussion YOU OPTED INTO. If you now don’t want have that conversation, fine, but don’t pretend like I was ignoring your request to not have it, because that’s not what your said. Framing it as a tantrum while you table-flip is rich. Since you don’t want to talk, I look forward to this being the last word. If you want to keep talking, you know what to do.
As someone from Brazil and in the left, I could say the same about not caring, but I am aware that in my country’s case there are a lot of people in mainstream media that replicates what both sides are saying in the USA. The right wing over here went so crazy they have tried to copy the capitol invasion. They are all in jail now.
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