These posts always focus on how USA are the bad guys for support Israel, but I wonder how popular this war is in Israel. Do the Israeli people support what Netanyahu is doing?
We found that a very large majority of the total sample (89%) think that Hamas bears a great deal of responsibility for the suffering of Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip.
And also:
we asked: “Given the current circumstances, is Israel’s leadership is doing its utmost to secure the release of the hostages?” We found that slightly more than half of the Jewish respondents think or are certain that the leadership is doing all it can to bring the hostages home. Only a small minority of Arab respondents concur.
wild how Iran launched missiles at Israel and then was struck by Israeli missiles… the Israeli missiles weren’t launched, though. They just sprang into existence above Iran
Obviously not but the wording make it out that Iran’s attacked is “unprecedented” against Israel, despite being retaliatory, and Israel didn’t “attack” Iran but rather “responded”. I’m certainly not implying Iran is “good” but journalism is already telling you who is “innocent”.
Right? Like we all saw that Iran was going to for tat, and their attack was pretty much neutralized. At this point Israel is just accelerating the conflict.
I don’t want to believe our media is biased either, but like let’s take a moment and remember that we’ve been told the reason Iran and the Taliban hate us is because we have and love freedom. Like seriously, take a moment if you were alive and conscious in 2003 and what messaging we got then. It’s so stupid.
To drag the US into an Afghanistan-style quagmire conflict with Iran, something American evangelicals and far-right military gumbas have been chomping at the bit for since the Carter Administration?
We don’t want to go to war in the middle east. You are 100 percent right that some conservatives have been after that forever. Luckily I hope that as a nation we have grown past policing the world and being involved by sending troops. We can’t handle another war right now.
Just gonna leave it at some mysterious Jewish plot without going into a rant about space lasers or whatever the popular conspiracy theories are these days?
You can’t fire 300 drones and ballistic missiles at a country and not expect a response back. It was so over the top they had to respond. The response is so mild I think we can all step back now
No, the Great War in the Fallout universe happened in 2077. The 50s revival was just the fashion at that time.
Just like the 50s were a time when technological advances were spreading rapidly, the Great War happened during the time of technological breakthroughs like personal assistant robots and fusion power.
Ok, that does explain some things. But it seemed to me like the technology is all kind of slow and bulky. The mech suits, and the doc was able to outrun those turrets. I thought that was because it was the 50s when the war happened, but I guess not?
Westerners. In my lifetime my people have gone from the enemy to, to the friend you bring to parties to prove you’re not racist, to the enemy again, to the friend, and so on. At least atone before moving on and patting myself on the back
Yeah most likely. The reaction to Iran’s strike was to underline that it was against military targets and that they wouldn’t assist Israel in striking back.
So as long as they don’t help Iran hit back against Israel, then yeah the reaction will be the same.
Listen, Israel has a right to exist, and part of Israeli’s existence is firing missiles at its neighbors, so maybe back off and stop being anti-Semitic about this why dontcha?
The US just gave approval for more Genocide, another assault on millions of starving refugees that are mostly children, only for Israel to break their one concession in mere hours… Luckily no casualties are reported, hopefully this doesn’t escalate.
you commit a genocide, you are no longer the priority. your victims come first. everyone else comes first. you are no longer human.
if they want to save you, your victims can do it. but literally every other person on earth gets falgsc before I offer you a grain of rice, or steer my car out of the way to avoid hitting you.
honestly, a policy where food etc aid is only allowed to these genocidal monsters through Palestinians is pretty reasonable. it would be a way to beat some humanity into them, but they must be allowed to die, so the Palestinian people’s goodwill is the only way they survive.
Never in the history of the world has grouping literally everyone of a particular group together has gone poorly, except for all the time. To say every Israel is culpable is factually untrue. Hold the accountable accountable.
so Palestinians. you choose to share the world with Palestinians rather than genocidal monsters who jack off about starting world war three. same, honestly. they seem at worst indifferent.
which means, unless you kill the monsters, there will be no more Palestinians.
No people who don’t want to eradicate others. Simple as that, I don’t want to share a world where people can call for the subjugation of any group, or say they should all be killed.
then you don’t want to share the world with “Israelis”. cool. were on the same page for the same reason. so, kill em all or they won’t stop, or kill every military age asult and then put them entirely at the mercy of Palestinians.
I don’t want to share the world with people who call for the eradication of others. Obviously missing the point on purpose. I don’t think calling for genocide is the answer to genocide. Your view is twisted.
You are wrong. Calling for genocide is wrong in any and all cases. Your view is twisted and abhorrent. Your want for Israel to be eradicated is no better than those of them that want Palestine gone. Hold those responsible accountable yes, but the way you look at life is quite sad.
I don’t think it materializes from nowhere, it materialize when people talk about removing that other group from existence. Not a joking matter. Genocide to “solve” Genocide is dumb.
that’s the thing. do Palestinian lives matter, or do “Israeli” lives matter? because they can’t both. the “Israelis” have seen to that, and since they have consistently made that choice with very little dissent over the past century+, I say they should be the ones whose lives no longer matter.
Israeli lives matter, as do Palestinians. Because they obviously both do and they both can. Why the quotation marks around Israeli? If you say otherwise, you are genocidal. Thankfully your opinion of the value of lives is as worthless as you deem Israelis to be.
when you do a genocide, when your entire national project and identity is the commission of genocide:
no. your life does not matter, except as a target.
when ending your life slows a genocide, your life does not matter, except as a target.
when ending your culture ends a genocide, because your culture is literally only genocide and atrocities and hiding behind all the Jewish people in the world so they take splash damage from your bullshit, maybe that’s a culture we are better off without, just like the Russian royal family.
Genocide is not the answer to Genocide, you know this. You cite an example that doesn’t remove every russian but instead goes after those responsible, yet you see content with the thought of every Israeli being Genocide. You know there is such a thing as Israel, because it exists.
so saying we should stop genocide is advocating genocide, because their culture is just so exclusively nothing else, it would be like what killing the buffalo was to the plains tribes?
that’s cool. that’s a culture worth preserving. I want to share a world with that.
well maybe if the fucking Americans stopped giving them top of the line military hardware, there would be other fucking options, but this is all that’s left.
they can’t be negotiated with, and short of killing or badly maiming literally every military age adult, nothing’s going to stop them-and we can’t just subdue them, because they have too many toys now.
also if we don’t, they literally start world war three, which they’re apparently fucking into
please tell me if you have another idea, besides “let the genocide continue”. one that hasn’t failed like twenty times already.
Dehumanizing Israelis to justify their deaths isn’t going to solve anything. Like with South Africa, international pressure and (at this point hopefully) intervention is necessary to force Israel as an apartheid state to dissolve and a new state with equal rights for all Palestinians and Israelis takes its place. Due to the Land Grabbing and violent settlers, Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories are already a One-State Reality.
they need to be killed because they won’t stop killing any other way.
survivors need to be entirely at the mercy of Palestinians.
no fuck this equal rights. you don’t get to have equal rights with someone after Fucking genociding them.
that’s like letting most of the Nazis live after world war two, not killing Mussolini’s daughter, and every CSA slaver. it will come back.
you need to cripple and kill enough that they cannot possibly fight back, and then out everything about their existences at the mercy of Palestinians, or just kill the remainder. only two ways this ends.
I’m not prepared to be the kind of asshole to condemn a whole race of people. The majority of Germans supported Hitler and then the war ended and they’ve gotten a lot fucking better.
I’d be happy to accept any Isrealis that are willing to abandon ship.
if they already left; vet their shit, make sure they’re not still affiliated, and sure. dont hold the shit hole they were born in against them. but starting now, when they’re just afraid? nah. main lesson from world war 2 was we didn’t kill enough Nazis.
I don’t really care? they have been unwilling to stop for longer than I have been alive. they’ve been offered the moon,and turned it down, because they prefer genocide. they haven’t stopped. they haven’t had substantial internal strife or attempted revolutions or internal assassinations of particularly warmongery leaders.
their soldiers literally sing while they do atrocities, their prime minister says it, their citizens say it, their children say it.
Not a single joule of energy should be wasted attempting to preserve “Israeli” life. not ever. to do otherwise would be an insult to their victims. stopping this genocide and world war three must come first.
I dunno, maybe you think 1 genocidal pedophile life is worth global thermonuclear war. I guess agree to disagree?
Call it the the genocidal problem. The issues isn’t with Jews in general, just people who are carrying out and supporting the genocide. I would lump Biden in with them as well.
you saying theres a way to stop world war 3 without glassing that shit hole?
and stop saying Israelis are Jews. they’re not. they once rationalized an internal purge by saying ‘if you kill other Jews for political reasons, youre out’ to kill other Jews for political reasons, then did the whole white supremacist sterilizing of Ethiopian Jews. they are not. they do not count. and even if they did, Jewish communities ive spoken to feel, at best, mildly embarrassed by them.
Jews are an ethnic group, culture, and religion, but not a race. It’s a common enough misconception spread via the media. Also any given Jew is not necessarily all three.
The lesson from World War II is that war can only delay the spread of an idea, but not destroy it. Ideas have to be fought with other ideas. Killing Nazis only bought us time to think of better ideas, spread them, and deradicalize people. Thanks to conservative propaganda networks and social media, we’re on the verge of a fascist takeover. We are in an information race against fascists. The fascists are turning the US into a christofascist dictatorship, by controlling the narrative and driving the news cycle, not by killing anyone. We have to beat them in this race to stop them.
Yes, I am Jewish, but not Israeli. I assumed most people referring to Israelis as a race are referring to Jews a race. It seems weird to confuse nationality with race in the 21st century.
Many Jewish people hate Israel.
I don’t hate Israel, because hating Israel is more taxing to me than it is to Israel. I think Israel is an apartheid state that’s committing genocide and war crimes in Gaza, Zionism is a fascist ideology, the current Israeli government is dominated by fascists, and that the concept that we need a Jewish ethnostate in order to be safe is ridiculous. Israel needs to change radically and it needs to change as soon as possible.
I’m talking about Israelis, cut your equivocating antisemitic bullshit. talk like that gets people killed by idiots who can’t tell the difference, but know genocide is bad and Nazis dying is good.
we didn’t stop Nazism because we didn’t kill enough Nazis, on either side of the ocean. the fuckers who got social media in on it can be traced back to that. if we’d killed more Nazis then, we wouldn’t have these problems now.
who the fuck mentioned Jews here? I’m talking about Israelis, cut your equivocating antisemitic bullshit.
If someone refers to Israelis as a race I would assume they are confusing Jews, an ethnic group, culture and religion as a race as opposed to confusing Israelis, a nationality, as a race.
we didn’t stop Nazism because we didn’t kill enough Nazis, on either side of the ocean. the fuckers who got social media in on it can be traced back to that. if we’d killed more Nazis then, we wouldn’t have these problems now.
Even if we had killed everyone who was a Nazi, the ideas could be still be spread by people who are not Nazis and then internalized and adopted by a new group of Nazis. Ideas outlive the people came up with them and believed in them. The best that would do is kick the can further down the road, but we still have to deal with this problem eventually.
don’t think I referred to tfem as a race but I could have. I’m not super likely to bother scrolling up for a hezbarite though.
the ideas could have been spread by people who weren’t Nazis, but were I’m this actual extant timeline spread by actual Nazis.
american civil war was the same. every one of those slaver families needed to die. every adult, and possibly the children, if they weren’t adopted out (possibly to the people who should have got the property and would have done the raising if the slavers had won anyway). yes that’s technically genocide, but I’m saying it should have happened to some of my shitty ancestors, and I still think I’m right. that culture of keeping human beings imprisoned as chattel slaves needed to die, and because we left them alive; it didn’t.
don’t think I referred to tfem as a race but I could have. I’m not super likely to bother scrolling up for a hezbarite though.
I was referring to the poster above you.
the ideas could have been spread by people who weren’t Nazis, but were I’m this actual extant timeline spread by actual Nazis.
My point is that killing all Nazis wouldn’t have prevented Fascism from spreading.
american civil war was the same. every one of those slaver families needed to die. every adult, and possibly the children, if they weren’t adopted out
Killing all slave owners wouldn’t have stopped the Lost Cause of the Confederacy myth which is responsible for the confederate sympathizers we have today. The myth is an idea and can be spread by people who don’t own slaves.
killing all the Nazis wouldn’t have stopped fascism
hard disagree. it would have stopped. maybe somebody would have dug it up later and started it back up, but it would have stopped.
killing the slavers wouldn’t have
I met them. their grandchildren and great children, at family reunions. they worked hard to craft and propagate these myths. they were proud of it. expected their grandchildren to keep it up.
now, me noping out isn’t so much fix as those first couple generations did damage, abd that’s why I think they should have been killed. every single one.
hard disagree. it would have stopped. maybe somebody would have dug it up later and started it back up, but it would have stopped.
People who weren’t Nazis knew what fascism was. Fascists wrote books and gave speeches. Fascism would still exist in peoples’ minds as a concrete idea that can be communicated to other people even if no Nazis survived the war.
I met them. their grandchildren and great children, at family reunions. they worked hard to craft and propagate these myths. they were proud of it. expected their grandchildren to keep it up.
People who didn’t own slaves spread the myth as well. Killing entire families of slave owners would not have stopped this.
The fascists and confederate sympathizers of today aren’t necessarily direct biological descendants of those in the past. They are ideological descendants.
it might have been restarted later, but it would have stopped first
read and respond to this. read and fucking respond to this please.
people who didn’t own slaves
propagated it, but somebody had to do the initial push, and in telling you, from my own family, they’re proud of the major push and consensus manufacturing they accomplished, even well into the 20th century. this is not hypothetical, this is literally what I have seen and heard them admit to me and noticed them try to push me to continue the tradition. this is what happened, and open historical documents noting membership in the early kkk and dotc support it.
this happened. it was real. it likely still is real. atop denying history to spare fucking Nazis.
and its not just here. the old Italian fascists were mentors of the current Italian fascist leaders, including Mussolini’s family. the places the rat lines lead to tended to have fascist coups during the 20th century. modi’s explicitly fascist RSS (currently doing a genocide) was founded as a stay-behind by Nazi agents in the 30s.
kill. more. fucking. Nazis. all of them. kill all the Nazis. every single fucking one, or it will happen again. and again. and again.
it might have been restarted later, but it would have stopped first
Fascism doesn’t stop until everyone internalizes that fascism is a terrible ideology. And then keeps teaching that to new generations.
this happened. it was real. it likely still is real. atop denying history to spare fucking Nazis.
Killing people won’t kill their ideas. The myth of lost cause would still have been spread by non-slave owners. It just would have taken longer. People don’t have to directly learn about fascism from a 20th century fascist to become fascists. Even if every living Nazi, fascist, and confederate sympathizer dropped dead right now we would run into this problem sooner rather than later. Ideas and information are freely available on the internet. They circulate faster than ever before. If we don’t defeat these ideas then we will keep having this problem no matter how many people die.
it would have taken longer and killing slavers is no great loss. I also think it would have been less coherent and less awful, it wouldn’t have had money behind it, it would have been less sticky. I’m not sure it would have survived.
so theres a benefit but no down side to killing every last one.
Typically when people are saying Jews are a race, they referring to the idea that Jews are not White, as in they cannot be White. Jews can be White, but they can also be Black, Native American or Hispanic. Jews are not in a racial category that excludes them from being part of these groups. That’s what I was referring to when I wrote race.
That’s not really the main point, I was agreeing with the person I responding to and adding some clarification. It seemed to have distracted from the issue at hand.
Killing people isn’t how we stop the spread of fascism in the modern day. We need to spread information, for example, that fascism is a self-destructive ideology that will destroy hundreds of millions of lives and that the Republican Party is controlled by fascists. I think most people know that on lemmy, but there are plenty of people who will check into politics in the months leading up to the election and form their opinions then. A misconception I see on lemmy is that some people assume we can defeat fascism with guns alone. That isn’t going to cut it. We have to reach more people with true information before fascists reach them with misinformation. Once a person forms an opinion they are unlikely to discard that opinion when presented with new information in the short term. That short term can easily last until the election, so these months leading up to the election are crucial. edit: capitalization
If it has no scientific definition, it has no scientific definition. The fact that you can’t provide one is good evidence. The fact that the thing you are telling me to read says so is much better evidence.
Despite the centrality of the idea of “breeds” to animal husbandry and agriculture, no single, scientifically accepted definition of the term exists.[3]: 340 A breed is therefore not an objective or biologically verifiable classification but is instead a term of art amongst groups of breeders who share a consensus around what qualities make some members of a given species members of a nameable subset.
Apparently the whole thing. Either that or you don’t know what it means. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7925393/ you should tell these guys what they study and track don’t exist.
Still waiting for that scientific definition of breed. That link doesn’t have it and the thing you’ve told me to read more than once literally says it is a term of art, not scientific.
They track heritable disease frequency by race, which obviously exists scientifically being that. you act like 23 and me doesn’t exist. “race doesn’t exist” vs “DNA says this was a (whatver race)”
Humans have much genetic diversity, but the vast majority of this diversity reflects individual uniqueness and not race.
And
The question of the existence of human “races” now becomes the question of the existence of human subspecies.
… One definition regards races as geographically circumscribed populations within a species that have sharp boundaries that separate them from the remainder of the species (Smith, Chiszar, & Montanucci, 1997).
… A second definition defines races as distinct evolutionary lineages within a species. An evolutionary lineage is a population of organisms characterized by a continuous line of descent such that the individuals in the population at any given time are connected by ancestor/descendent relationships.
And
It is critical to note that genetic differentiation alone is insufficient to define a subspecies or race under either of these definitions of race.
You seem to have linked something that argues and shows the opposite of what you intended there, bud.
I think you might have just skimmed it. Throughout the paper the authors include examples of “race trees” which they argue have no places in scientific literature because they do not apply to humans.
I have an idea. Why don’t you quote the section that proves your point. If I can’t rebut you by copying and pasting context from the same paper, you win. Deal?
It’s ideology for these people. Lysenkoism all over again. Meanwhile the existence of genetic subgroups, however hazy and overlapping they might be, remains extremely relevant in medicine - which they’d also be quick to point out in different circumstances.
I get their motivation - the idea of there being 3-5 rigid classes of human that should be treated differently is ridiculous and sinister. But are there distinct genetic lineages? Absolutely, you can track human migration that way, it’s very interesting.
A lot of the disagreement seems to come from conflation of the word “race”, which doesn’t really have a firm definition anyway. To some people in the USA it refers to this strict division of humans into absolute categories, but if you’re not predisposed to think that way it’s just shorthand for ethnic or geographical heritage.
Globally, this heritage is something people still consider very important; whether rightly or wrongly is not for me to say. But that definitely lends an irony to the whole discussion. Being simultaneously obsessed with identity categories while claiming they don’t exist is par for the course nowadays, I think, at least in parts of the USA.
According to Templeton’s research, perceived differences in races are more related to cultural perceptions and biases than any underlying genetic reality.[5] For example, Templeton’s statistical analysis of the human genome shows that much greater genetic diversity exists between populations of chimpanzees than humans from different parts of the world.[3]
It think it’s debatable about how you define Races, but it’s also quite obvious that biological races exist. There are specific differences in the physical biology that separate the races, and common traits among them that identify them as part of the group. Skin color, hair type, bone structure, genetic predisposition to certain diseases, etc. Physical traits are passed from the parents to the children, and when the parents are of different races we get blending of the characteristics and so on. Some Native Americans even have different kinds of teeth than European-Caucasian descended folks do.
Basically it’s not something you can choose or change, it’s an immutable biological set of characteristics. I don’t know what “race” the Jews in Israel are exactly but I suspect it depends a lot on the region their ancestors are from. Many of them might even be the same “race” as Palestinians.
You want to reduce everything into simple concepts just to argue about them. Reality is not that simple, and that’s clearly not all that I said about the subject. There’s no need to make up your own version of “what I said” when what I actually said is still there in plain text to read in the past comments.
It think it’s debatable about how you define Races, but it’s also quite obvious that biological races exist. There are specific differences in the physical biology that separate the races, and common traits among them that identify them as part of the group. Skin color, hair type, bone structure, genetic predisposition to certain diseases, etc. Physical traits are passed from the parents to the children, and when the parents are of different races we get blending of the characteristics and so on. Some Native Americans even have different kinds of teeth than European-Caucasian descended folks do.
No, and you fundamentally misunderstand biology, genetics, and race.
In essence, per Robert Saplosky, race is a cultural construct, not a genetic or biological one. He has his entire Stanford lecture on human behavior including human genetics on YouTube. He also has several books explaining this. Here’s a link to a summary video: youtu.be/YVT5iIXdjek?si=jXKvfd3fUEdQcjMx
Just because you can reactively type people into races, doesn’t make race a real biological phenomenon. There are plenty of races that look like others, plenty of admixture that ruins your theories. Sickle cell anemia can exist in white people (people who appear to look white) who have black ancestry, but you wouldn’t know they have either sickle cell or black ancestry from looking at them. Because race ISNT genetics. There are people within the same family who are different races, one who is lighter and one who is darker, etc. And melanin production is only one small component of the cultural cues we see as someone’s race.
Again, it’s not biological and no real scientist would think that.
Do they all participate though? A coworker of mine is in Isreal right now caring for her mother, she grew up in Isreal and was staunchly antiwar. She’s once again an Isreali resident - does she deserve to die?
Do the three year olds deserve to die to? Do they deserve to be made orphans?
Please realize that you’re so far gone that you’re advocating for the erasure of a state… your stance is one that Netanyahu would applaud.
its not about deserving to die. its about going literally an inch out of your way to save one while stopping a genocide. which you shouldn’t. saying otherwise is an insult to their victims.
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