The hill is a pretty conservative outlet but this is a disturbing headline for sure. The only way to end the war is with peace talks, there is no other option. The better Ukraine does on the ground the better they will do in the negotiations.
The fear is that there is pressure for peace talk conditions to be less than fair to Ukraine, that this would be little more than appeasement of Russia, like what happened with Czechoslovakia in the 1930s
Ukraine was in a far better position when US and UK sabotaged peace talks last March, and Ukrainian position continues to deteriorate. So what exactly do you think delaying negotiations more is going to accomplish?
This is the point that’s always lost on libs. They’re full on blood and soil over soil and blood that isn’t theirs. They can’t imagine negotiationg peace so then people can stop dying.
“They’ll die because Putin=hitler. I am the great history understander of our time. Just don’t ask me about anything that happened between 2013 and 2022.”
It would have to be a really shitty surrender treaty to have the clause “Ukraine will surrender all land to Russia and will also die anyways.” Like you realize this is useless and dumb hyperbole right?
Do you think Russia went to Ukraine and they sat down in a nice comfy living room with a fireplace and discussed one country handing everything they have over to the other?
Funny how these people think they deserve any equal respect or recognition as a human on this site (Remember le human!) when their honest to god conversational cadence sounds like a machine-translated speech algorithm. Would you respect this person’s time if you met them for real? And if they started talking like this?
A sovereign nation who’s leadership drank the NATO kool-aid against the protest of their nuclear armed neighbor, goading them into a fight. The victims are the people of both nations.
Because context is a thing. Or do you think Russia would currently accept any peace deal that includes leaving Ukraine? Of course there will have to be a peace deal at the end, but currently there are no peace deals that would be acceptable to either party.
When there is talk about “peace deals”, such deals are implied to somewhat reflect the status quo border wise, which at the moment would mean that Ukraine surrenders. It’s Russia currently occupying Ukraine and trying to legitimise it, not the other way around. No shit a peace deal would be favourable to them.
You just have to read about the Great Soviet Famine to know how Russia regards the Ukrainian people. Well, all the people who are not the Tzar really. Putin has already started the latest genocide via war and stealing children.
They are, but while wicked problems (what Bostonians call “math”) are very difficult to resolve to the satisfaction of everyone, some approaches are far worse than others.
Ukraine’s approach – failing to control the neo-Nazi paramilitaries in their midst, then allowing those paramilitaries to violate the Minsk agreements while running away from your largest neighbor and in to the arms of the U.S. empire, then skipping offramps in the lead up to the war and in its first months – was a particularly bad one.
The country’s ultranationalist groups came to the fore in 2014, when they kickstarted massive street protests that led to the ousting of the Russia-friendly president Viktor Yanukovych…
Torch-bearing ultra-right activists regularly march to the beat of drums across the Ukrainian capital’s downtown, chanting, “Death to traitors of Ukraine!” During one scuffle at the memorial to a Red Army general killed in the second world war, an elderly woman approached a group of radical nationalists shouting, “Hang the Russians!” and defied them, saying: “I’m Russian, hang me!”…
In a series of violent actions that underline their strength, rightwing radicals in recent years have assaulted gatherings by LGBT and women’s rights activists, attacked Roma encampments around the country, derailed a lecture on the history of the Holocaust and brawled with pro-Russia veterans…
Yermolayev said in the past the government turned a blind eye to the rise of nationalist groups, using them as a scare tactic, but now the ultra-right has turned on the authorities. “The well-organised and aggressive nationalism in Ukraine is a child of the government. It has lost control over radical nationalists. [Petro] Poroshenko has lost that game.”…
International human rights groups have strongly criticised the Ukrainian government for failing to track down and punish those responsible for the acts of violence and intimidation. The government has promised to rein in the ultranationalists, but has taken no action…
That’s a pretty good overview of the character of Ukraine’s neo-Nazis, as well as some on the scale of the problem. It mentions they sent “volunteer battalions” to the separatist regions, but does not have tons of detail on what they were doing there. This one has more detail on that:
“I have nothing against Russian nationalists, or a great Russia,” said Dmitry, as we sped through the dark Mariupol night in a pickup truck, a machine gunner positioned in the back. “But Putin’s not even a Russian. Putin’s a Jew.”
Dmitry – which he said is not his real name – is a native of east Ukraine and a member of the Azov battalion, a volunteer grouping that has been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine’s war with pro-Russia separatists. The Azov, one of many volunteer brigades to fight alongside the Ukrainian army in the east of the country, has developed a reputation for fearlessness in battle…
In this next section, note how the neo-Nazis are declaring they’ll do whatever they want, and see themselves as held back by the actual military:
For the commanders and the generals in Kiev, who many in Azov and other volunteer battalions see as responsible for the awful losses the Ukrainian army has suffered in recent weeks, especially in the ill-fated retreat from Ilovaysk, there was only contempt. “Generals like those in charge of Ilovaysk should be imprisoned for treason,” said Skillt. “Heads are going to roll for sure, I think there will be a battle for power.”
The Ukrainian armed forces are “an army of lions led by a sheep”, said Dmitry, and there is only so long that dynamic can continue. With so many armed, battle-hardened and angry young men coming back from the front, there is a danger that the rolling of heads could be more than a metaphor.
And of course:
This week, Amnesty International called on the Ukrainian government to investigate rights abuses and possible executions by the Aidar, another battalion.
"The failure to stop abuses and possible war crimes by volunteer battalions risks significantly aggravating tensions in the east of the country and undermining the proclaimed intentions of the new Ukrainian authorities to strengthen and uphold the rule of law more broadly," said Salil Shetty, Amnesty International secretary general, in Kiev.
Sorry I only looked at the pictures and did not read the text jet. I will read it on some commute tomorrow. But the pictures are frightening as the recent global rise of fascism is. I’m worried of the times to come.
OSCE had a mission through the entire period 2014-2022 as observers and released daily reports of the region together with ceasefire violations so we can find it for pretty much any day online like this one from 2022-02-03, and you can look up others here.
I can’t find it anymore but there was a video floating around of Zelensky inspecting the troops and telling them to stop attacking the DNR and the soldiers telling him straight up no. Although I can’t find that video you can look at the election results from 2019, Zelensky ran on a platform of brokering a peace calming tensions with ethnic russians and general prosperity which is why Poroshenko accused Zelenski of selling out to Russia. A ton of people in eastern ukraine wanted things to calm down and that’s why he got the most votes there, but the military and the neo-nazi paramilitaries kept on doing their thing and here we are.
For me this sounds not too (in relative terms) bad, on Zelensky’s part. I live in the EU and many (possibly all) of our member states are rather bad at handling Neo-nazis (This is actually one of our most pressing issues, but broadly ignored by the public).
The best way to defend your home is to stop the bombs from falling on it. Unless you’re not talking about people’s homes, families, and friends, but rather talking about some arbitrary line in the sand that people should be sent to die for.
I mean sure but what’s the point in peace talks if all it would do is just give Russia more time to prep to try the same shit they’ve been doing for decades now.
Then why oh why aren’t you applying your reasoning to Russia? They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
If it’s all just pointless bloodshed over lines on a map, why isn’t Russia staying home? All they have to do to stop the deaths is go back.
Russia being the aggressor State that didn’t respect its prior engagements (Budapest memorandum), letting them keep the territory they unlawfully took from Ukraine is a ridiculous suggestion, would open the door to the same thing happening again at a later date and would require way more negotiations than just respecting the borders as agreed upon in the 90s.
Since you are talking about unhonored agreements, you should know that if Ukraine followed the minsk agreement, there would not be any war right now. And no, I am not suggesting anything. I am just pointing out how the previous argument was fucking stupid. But since you are asking for a suggestion, I suggest Ukraine and Russia meet for peace talks mediated by a neutral country, and let both countries talk about their grievances and find a compromise. This is a historically proven method of solving conflicts. And since Ukraine is such a sovereign country, they should decide for themselves what to do, instead of letting the UK arbitrarily revert actions on a whim.
So your argument against mine is that Ukraine didn’t respect an agreement that wouldn’t have been necessary if Russia had respected an agreement signed 20 years prior? Really?
Russian spokesman: Recognizing the Donbas republics would not be compatible with Minsk agreement.
Putin: I recognize the Donbas republics and the agreement no longer exists.
You: Ukraine is at fault.
The propaganda worked well with you I see 👍
Off to the block list with all the tankies you go!
What a convoluted mess you have written, and what about that habit of yours of putting things in other people’s mouths? But let me address the raised issues: Ukraine did sign the Minsk agreements, just like Russia signed the Budapest memorandum, which were not conflicting proposals. It doesn’t matter which one was signed first, but rather which one is broken first, and by which party. Russia only entered the territory of Ukraine officially in 2022, whereas the Minsk agreements have been proposed and revised since 2014 with no results, and it was confirmed that Ukraine never had intentions to fulfill any of its obligations and were using it as a cover to militarize the country further. You talk about propaganda, but it’s precisely propaganda that makes you so quick to dismiss all the undesirable information and shut down conversation that is not going your way. I’m afraid your “tankie” block list will continue to be expanded.
Not that Russia isn’t taking casualties, but why do Ukraine supporters act like they’re not the ones feeding their people into the meat grinder? Russia is dug in. You’re sending children and old men into a turkey shoot.
They started the whole conflict out of a desire to expand their arbitrary lines in the sand to include ukrainian territory.
Why do you think Russia invaded, exactly ? they started the whole conflict after decades of making NATO encroachment along their borders a clear red line and being very clear what would happen if it was crossed
The US still kept meddling in Ukraine (and other post-soviet states), with Russia making every effort short of war to try and stop that - like offering loans just as large as the IMF loans for example, except without asking for the batshit insane austerity measures the latter did
Then the CIA backed a far-right coup there in 2014, and much of the following years were spent with NATO financing and training nazi soldiers there in preparation of trying to take back Crimea, while breaking the Minsk agreements in the meantime (I’ll pass on the various atrocities and huge reframing of nazi criminals as national heroes in Ukraine there at the same period, since it’s barely related, but it is worth a mention too)
Now both Ukrainian and Russian people are dying. A peace deal would stop that.
Russia can cry about their red line all they want, but it wasn’t in the treaty. The Revolutions of 1989 made it clear Eastern Europeans weren’t interested in Russian control, the Balkans were unstable, and the Chechen & Georgian wars stoked fear in the former Soviet states. All NATO had to do was open their doors, and again, nothing in the treaty forbade it.
Lolyou think this is “indiscriminate”? Fuck, you should’ve zeen Fallujah or Vietnam or Korea. Ukraine has so much infrastructure and housing left in perfectly usable conditions. One of my major issues at the beginning was that I expected Russia to be much more violent and have been very surprised at how little of the violence has been on non-combatants
From what you wrote, do you have a major issue with, in your view, how little violence Russia has inflicted on civilians? Glad that you’re disappointed.
My point stands. All that blabber does not justify the acts of Russia.
No one is justifying the acts of Russia. They should not have invaded! But to act like there is no pretext to conflict and Ukraine is completely innocent is disingenuous. Peace is the better option.
Would you like to live in putin’s russia until you die? Because that is what happened to the people in the occupied regions, wheter they like it or not.
(And please don’t mention the referendum. Between killed, coerced, exiles and fraud it’s a pornographic notion to think you can have a referendum in those conditions.)
The Ukrainian choice here is not peace vs war, that’s russia’s choice.
Ukrainians’ choice here is whether to accept to live in putin’s russia by force or to resist his troops’ advances by force and a lot of people in your instance believe that it is up to Ukraine to solve the problem that russia created by accepting putin’s laws (which I guess nobody in your instance would accept, since you are anti-homophobia etc etc)
Lol fuck you No I’m pleasantly surprised at how little violence against civilians has happened in Ukraine. They never for a moment did the all out war that the US has waged on so many countries. None of that justifies the acts of Russia, but it does mean that your view is so terribly skewed by your western propaganda that I can’t imagine you being right about anything else lol
But also, you can look into my comment history if you want, for some good explanations on my position on Putin and Russia in this war. I have principles and material analyses. You have vibes
One of their old messages implied that (asking how much rent they should charge). I have no idea if they generally claim it, let alone if it’s actually true.
If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don’t see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they’d be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
looks like they got back a bit east of Kharkiv & to the north bank of the Dneipr—long before this last big ‘offensive’ tho. Russia might’ve given that pittance of territory up in a peace deal ooth.
They managed to partially capture a handful of villages in the security zone after three months. They are nowhere close to Crimea. The offensive had been a complete disaster and Russia has so far gained more territory in the north than Ukraine has in the south.
To provide context, we had a large number of videos coming out early in the war showing civilians taking up arms and otherwise impeding the invasion. They aren’t legal combatants by international law, but they’re not exactly civilians that got caught in the crossfire: they put themselves there.
Agreed. Hexbear and lemmygrad idiots are pretending to be all for peace and yet support the war mongers in russia.
These instances are a magnet for dishonesty and propaganda. Plus they have a 4chan attitude towards discussions, i.e. they keep shifting goalposts if you press them and throw absurd statements at you while doing so. There is nothing redeeming of those places.
There’s a lot of silly and disingeneous people on this app, I have to take their written word at face value. You seem to think ad hominem attacks are worth detracting from the article published in The Hill, a news source that would normally fit your ideology. So even when your own trusted media is reporting that Ukraine’s a geopolitical and moral mess, instead you’re claiming it’s a group of people spreading propaganda. I think you don’t care about Ukranians you just want to be right.
They didn't even read the article either clearly lol
One Baltic official, requesting anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic, told The Hill that Baltic states are concerned that pushing Ukraine into negotiations will have dangerous ripple effects throughout the region.
Because nobody should ever resist becoming a russian citizen by force, right?
Bonus: independent.co.uk/…/ukraine-russia-war-donetsk-pu… here is the guy (Gubarev) who led the pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional State Administration building in 2014. “We come in peace, unless you don’t want to become one of us.”
Yeah, along with the dipshits commenting from somewhere safe out in the West or whatever that never learn from history about appeasement that doesn’t work.
No one “wants the war to continue”. But “dipshits” from Poland and countries near Russia know that they will not stop there, and after Ukraine they’re next.
This person is just trying to spread propaganda implying that it’s Ukraine and Poland that are to blame for the war. “If Ukraine would just surrender to this invading force, the war can end and everyone will live happily ever after.”
They’re carrying water for a hostile dictatorship.
The alternative is for Putin to pack it up and go home and stop bleeding Ukraine and Russia (and those men who are being trafficked and conscripted from Cuba by Russia) dry of able bodied men.
Perhaps you think the entire European continent should just get it out of the way now and hand over their territory to this hostile dictatorship? That’d save a lot of bloodshed, right? We should be focused on doing whatever makes Putin happy because that means peace, unity, and no more war, right?
I know this is hard to understand for a Russian bot, but Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
They will start peace talks if and when they want to.
Negotiations will not be between Washington and Moscow, and even if talks like this would take place (e.g. under a new Trump administration), Ukraine is free to ignore them.
The only thing the west gets to decide is whether they keep sending weapons and how many.
I know it’s hard for a NAFO bot to understand, but Ukraine lost its sovereignty when US overthrew the democratically elected government in a violent coup.
Yes Ukraine is free to ignore them. The western coalition funding Ukraine’s war effort is also free to stop doing so. I’m not saying this to express that I wish Ukraine to be pressured to settle, but instead to highlight that Ukraine is not a self-reliant actor in this conflict.
Russia has its own military industrial complex that it inherited from USSR that currently outproduces all of NATO, and Russian economy is currently growing according to the IMF. If you can’t understand the difference between that and Ukraine then what else is there to say.
Russian MIC innovations (from the USSR days) was largely driven by Ukrainians, but that’s neither here nor there.
What Russia has are deep stores. They cannot produce new aircraft without importing parts from the west. Not fixed or rotary. They are ramping up production of missiles, but so is Ukraine.
Russia cannot even produce ball bearings. They aren’t producing new APCs, BMPs or MBTs. They are importing ammo from North Korea ffs. And seeing how badly their equipment has performed, I expect to see their weapons exports collapse. Their vaunted “Armata” turned out to completely suck.
As for the economy, it is being artificially propped up by depleting foreign reserves. They are currently over-borrowing yuan to attempt to correct. And you really have to be a complete idiot to believe any official Russian data.
Russia is holding on for dear life in the hope that Trump wins the elections.
No, the truth is well documented in western media once you learn to read past the spin. Everything I said is openly admitted by mainstream western publications.
Russia has failed every single expectation. It is so bad, Ukraine sent an official thank you letter to Russia’s Defense Minister Shoigu for being so corrupt and incompetent that it allowed Ukraine to defend itself.
That’s obviously what you’ve convinced yourself of and I doubt there’s anything that will change your mind until Ukraine ceases to exist as a country. Thanks to gullible westerners such as yourself countless thousands will die and millions will have their lives ruined in the process. One day you’ll have to live with supporting continuation of this atrocity.
What I hear from you is “Ukrainians must submit to the will of Putin or die”. As if they are children who don’t get to decide for themselves.
Just like you see the Buryats, Dagestanis, Chechens, Tatars, and hundreds other peoples’ crushed under Russians’ bloodstained boots.
No fucking wonder every single nation occupied by Russia in the past centuries who managed to gain their freedom hates Russia’s fucking guts.
YOU tankie morons won’t change your mind until Russia ceases to exist, which, if Russia continues this stupid war, might come sooner than you think. Prigozhin wasn’t the only opposition to Putin in the state.
Imagine thinking your leaders aren’t doing the same. When this war ends hopefully you’ll have the decency to do some retrospection and ask yourself how you ended up believing utter nonsense. I doubt it though, when the west gets involved in the next war, people like you are going to be cheering it on once again having learned absolutely nothing.
I don’t believe shit from any government. I will on the other hand be informed by history and diverse news orgs that aren’t dictated to by the mafia like RT
And your not answering any of my points lol. All i’m getting from you is “imagine thinking Ukrainians shouldn’t be Russian slaves! What an idiot!!”
You haven’t made any points, and you’ve made it abundantly clear that discussion with you is pointless. You’ll see what actually happens soon enough, but enjoy being an insufferable piece of shit until then.
“It’s totally natural to invade a country, rape and torture its people, kidnap the children, destroy everything we can’t have”? Get fucked.
You’re shilling for a pile of immoral, barbaric thieves. While 25% of Russian citizens (mostly ethnic minorities of course) shit in a hole in the ground for lack of plumbing, Putin and his Mafia collect yachts and private jets. And you can’t criticize, protest or complain or he’ll have you killed.
Fuck Russia. Even my Russian friends agree - fuck Russia. I have both Ukranian and Russian colleagues, and they are friends because - get this - the Russians don’t think the Ukranians should submit or die.
Hell, the Russian guys think Russia as it is is a shithole of epic shitness, and will never go back. Like 300,000 other expats since this war started, plus the 200,000 or so dead in Ukraine because Putin has a small penis or whatever.
Fuck. Russia. There is a reason every single ex USSR country that could, joined NATO as soon as they could. You are the idiot who can’t see what’s right in front of your face. Every ex “partner” wants nothing to do with that shithole. Even Belorus wanted out, it took the Russian army invading to force the Belorussians into slavery after Lukashenko lost his election and cheated, and plenty of them are now in Ukraine fighting Russia for their own freedom. Even Armenia now understands that Russia isn’t a partner for shit.
You still think Russia is winning, you are that dense. “Kyiv in a week” has turned into ever-shrinking occupied territory and continued barbaric torture and bombing of civilians and now grain export infrastructure, because that’s all Russia can do. The “2nd army in the world” lost 50% of its Airforce and Armour in a year (including several strategic bombers) plus its naval flagship, and a bunch of generals and senior colonels, and seen a mutiny which killed a bunch of pilots among others, against a military with barely an air force no Navy, and with one hand tied behind its back. Russia is getting fucked worse than in Afghanistan, and it will only get worse.
Tankies are hilarious. They think all these ex-soviet states have love for Russia.
They say that Putin was forced into this conflict by NATO/US shenanigans. So if we take that at face value it means that Putin fell for one the oldest political exploits in the world. Grand master strategist right there.
This is an economic war with the west, so yeah obviously what matters is whether Russian economy is doing better or worse than western economies. Screeching whataboutism when faced with that really highlights the quality of your intellect.
…the fuck kind of gripe is this? People post images in threads on the internet. For all the unbridled hate I see for the instance… posting and using images?
Pull your nose put of Putin’s ass. Putin doesn’t want peace, he wanted to steal juuuust a little bit more and at this point he just hopes not to be assassinated by his cronies for fucking everything up
You probably love the ass eating fetish too much I guess. Go back to the Warsaw Pact and tell me who broke it in 90s for “western expansion”, or why did US ex-VP Dick Cheney said their goal is to balkanise Russia, or why there were biochemical factories in Ukraine near shared Russian border.
Claimed countless times by deez nuts. You have no official source from Russian government as proof. You rely on the Big Lie aka “what has been claimed countless times” by West. Do you have a brain to think for yourself, and check if something is even true, regardless of how much it is repeated ad nauseam?
Let some fresh air in your head, headass. And think by yourself for once.
You are such a big headass clown, you do not even read what you send. Your claim was Russian authorities officially said the SMO against Ukraine will last three days. And you have nowhere to prove, from official sources, about the stipulated timeframe of three days. You have failed to prove your claim, and proved that you are a true microcosm of Western society and its intelligence levels.
Go home little boy, party’s over. And learn some humility before you get bigger Ls in life.
You have not yet proved your claim about Russia officially ever announcing or stating the SMO will last atmost 3 days. Do better, troll. I am waiting. No western troll in the past year has ever given me proof whenever I question them.
Russia won long ago. And Russia never loses. Mother Russia is strong.
Russia has done horrible things to the Ukrainian people for a good century now. I hope the Ukraine doesn't get pressured into giving its land and people over to Putin. Any deal needs to give Ukraine all its territory back, and for Russia to keep its military off their border.
What has Ukraine allowed to have happen to it’s ethnic Russian population comprising a significant portion of the east of Ukraine done during it’s time? You speak like a US state department underling. Whose office are you in exactly?
I'm pretty left leaning, and I'm against any fascist state trying to turn its neighbors into vassal states for its interest. And yes, that means being against a lot of what the US does as well.
If it's a proxy war, that means that Russia attacked Ukraine to get back at the US, not the other way around. This means it's on Russia to stop the war, by giving back an innocent country's land that they stole.
Try studying history and us involvement in the region. Instead gas lighting people like they don’t know why Russia invaded part of the country. What has the US and NATO done prior to 2014 to create stability and peace in the region. Jack shit, the opposite, and there were plenty of opportunities. Ukraine isn’t going to get its land back period.
What has Ukraine Czechoslovakia allowed to have happen [sic] to it’s [sic] ethnic Russian German population comprising a decent portion of the east of Ukraine [sic] West of Czechoslovakia done during it’s [sic] time?
The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
Neville Chamberlain, British Prime Minister, September 30th, 1938.
More context:
The Munich Agreement[a] was an agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, the French Republic, and Fascist Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland, where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived.
I don’t believe this for one second. I haven’t heard anything from the Ukraine administration that would suggest in any way that they are interested in peace talks. In fact, their recent choice of putting a Crimean Tatar as the Minister of Defence suggests that they are serious about taking Crimea back from Russia. I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until a Ukraine victory.
These are justifications to give the people of USA as reasons to keep supporting them. Especially the conservatist side needs convincing right now, because their tribe is at odds with this particular war for some reason.
I feel you are falsely juxtaposing these different things as similar. USA is not throwing ukrainians against Russia, they are supporting a people who are fighting for the survival of their nation.
I know you people don’t consider Ukrainians actual humans with agency but they fight because they are forced to do so by Russians. And if they stopped fighting they would be eradicated by Russians. Whether the West wants them to resist Russia or not has no weight in that.
I’ve seen videos and articles that suggest that many Ukrainians fight because they are forced to do so by other Ukrainians. And what do you mean eradicated? Do you know of some secret extermination camp nobody else knows about?
Not all who get draft notices are actually inducted; sometimes the notices are simply a way to get every potential recruit on the books. Even for those who get one, there are ways of getting around it. There are legal exemptions for illness and disability—either of the draftee or of a dependant. Single parents and fathers with three or more children are off the hook as well. Students can defer service. Certain professions also receive what is known locally as bron, or protection from call-up.
The government has extended this to key workers in the energy, transport and agriculture sectors. Many IT staff have six-month exemptions. Alex, an IT professional who handles his company’s relations with the government, says the state understands how vital his sector has become to the war effort. “It’s one of the only areas of the economy still generating hard currency. Many of us are also working pro bono on military projects in AI, surveillance, counter-espionage and other classified technologies.”
Ironically, though, Ukraine’s army is built on conscription as well. For years Ukrainian law has demanded 12 to 18 months of military service from Ukrainian men, even if many of them manage to postpone it through studies or parenthood (registering with a fake address is a popular trick to duck it entirely). The practice of conscription itself, like so much else about Ukraine, is a relic that it has tried to shed: when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, all its men had to complete at least three years of military service. Four of Ukraine’s last five elected presidents promised to abolish it. One succeeded in 2013, but it was reinstated the following year, after Russia began grabbing chunks of Ukrainian territory. Last month, just before the war started, Mr Zelensky proposed an end to conscription by early 2024.
Almost like it’s far more nuanced than “being forced to fight”. But you and your tanky buds will never admit that none of this would have to happen if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine in an unprovoked war of aggression
And no, it’s not more nuanced than being forced to fight, the regime in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the street and sending them to die on the front lines. Meanwhile, human garbage such as yourself keeps cheering that on. You are an utter scumbag.
The “moron” talking head youtuber provides all western sources for everything he says. The only actual moron here is you bud. Great job defending the empire NAFO troll. Hope you made enough FICO points to eat tonight.
or were you mad you used a year old article and your best source was a little major or something and I offered the opinion of a one star general from last month?
Russia is trash, you are a trash and China is trash too sorry dog.
A sociopath told you that you aren’t capable of having moral judgements about people dying and that you needed to listen to vetted experts instead. It’s not complicated actually. I contend that pointless death is in fact a bad thing
I do too. That’s why I hope Ukraine is able to defend themselves against Russia bombing hospitals and torturing children. Once they’ve pushed Russia all the way back to their border, I hope that the world gives Ukraine so many weapons that Russia will never think about attacking them again.
No, as I said in my first answer, there are no generally right or wrong answers. There are people dying because of some vanity project of the rich and powerful. I also hold the opinion, that those shall be prevented at all costs. But if my information on the conflict is correct and this war started as a civil war on the topic of secession, then the question get’s hard to answer almost instantly, and also highly individual.
edit: In another post you mentioned the breakaway republics, there you have your examples. People who don’t want to live under a certain regime or don’t want to live under theirs anymore. Sometimes fighting is the only option left for people, and sometimes fighting people know they will die fighting.
The world is an unfathomably complex thing, even if you leave the people stuff out, and we all have lots of opinions and mostly none of the information.
I do realise that I don’t have a say in the matter and neither should I. The one thing I know for certain is that optaining a truth is on a spectrum between hard and impossible.
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