#Beehaw's aggressive defederation move is rather eyebrow raising in the wider context of how #Fediverse works; I cannot help but feel it will either rejoin soon-ish, or start declining as a community.
Not my circus, not my monkeys; but watching the last week of #Reddit migration has been fascinating. I fully assume it is very similar to the #Twitter exodus of last autumn...
I have kinda thrown my hat in with #kbin - though I am quite averse to putting all my eggs in one basket by now. Wish I had a useful skillset to actually be able to volunteer to help Ernest build up the capacity, alas - I last touched PHP about 10 years ago...
If you didn't know, on DuckDuckGo you can search for posts or magazines with site:kbin.social just like you would with Reddit. The same applies to any other Fediverse site like Kbin, Lemmy, Mastodon, etc.. I was really frustrated because it seems like Google was intentionally suppressing them....
Lemmy has "all", which shows content from all federated communities. Since kbin is now federated as well, it can show in "all" even for Lemmy users. In fact, that's how I found this post! By sorting "all (new)".
I don't believe there's a native way to do this unfortunately. Currently you can only search for other communities (magazines) specific to your kbin instance. As @ChrV noted there are ways to do this via 3rd party
However, once you find a community from another compatible instance you can search for it through kbin.social and subscribe to it. Like searching for "mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world" without quotes in the search bar will let you subscribe to the mildlyinfuriating community on lemmy.word and the content will show up under kbin.social/sub
I don't think this is unintentional. Kbin is a separate thing than Lemmy which is what most other instances are using. It makes sense that magazines would be prioritized over communities in terms of discoverability.
even trolls may just decide to 'stick with what they know' and continue to use a Lemmy based instance.
Yup. there's a ton of lemmy instances that aren't blocked by beehaw, so it's likely any trolls would just use those in the first place.
however, I understand that if a post is local to kbin.social, and had comments from lemmy.world users, in addition to kbin.social users, and a beehaw.org use came to the post, they wouldn't see any of the comments from the defederated users. That is to say, so long as one instance doesn't federate with another, they will never see posts from that instance, regardless of where they are.
Think of defederation as "blocking" an instance. if lemmyworld users and beehaw users come to a kbin magazine, lemmyworld users will see everything as proper because they didn't block anyone. beehaw users will see an altered version that hides/removes lemmyworld posts. Lemmyworld users can interact with us like normal, while beehaw users can interact with us, but they won't see anything that lemmyworld users are doing on here. Lemmyworld is blocked from beehaw so they won't get updates from beehaw. Meaning beehaw communities won't sync for them, and beehaw users won't see lemmyworld users/communities. But lemmyworld users will see beehaw posts on kbin magazines.
I'm not saying that won't still prevent people defederating with kbin.social purely because we're open / federate with another community they specifically defederated from, but there's less reason to if kbin.social maintains a quality userbase.
Keep in mind that kbin is federated with some popularly blocked instances, like lemmygrad. we federate with everyone afaik. the swiss neutrality of the fediverse tbh.
Another agreement from me here, however, the point of this post is to start a discussion around whether or not we can prevent being overwhelmed with bad apples too early on in the platforms lifespan
Right I think this is the bigger issue (and less so the drama bout other instances). In terms of lemmyworld users coming here and causing problems.... I don't think it's an issue. kbinauts largely don't have an issue with lemmyworld (we're not crying to block them). and lemmyworld people can interact with our stuff just fine.
however, a larger influx of users from elsewhere (such as what happened with reddit) can potentially change culture. but I think things are still early enough that kbinauts can decide how we want the culture to be here. and I think the consensus seems to be: neutrality, civility, polite discourse, and trying to achieve mutual understandings. I'd say we're doing a good job in that regard :)
My thinking re: closing registrations for a time, is that if currently the only person that can action warranted sitewide bans (e.g. users actively using hate-speech in multiple posts in multiple magazines) is ernest, then there may be a point where there's simply too much to keep on top of, given everything else he has going on.
These concerns may well be completely unwarranted, and I'm well aware that even if kbin.social were to be defederated from a number of instances, that once "the situation" was under control, they could be re-federeated if agreed with the other instances. It would just be a shame to hamper our own community by being relatively powerless against a potential influx of bad faith users whilst ernest is busy being awesome and actively improving kbin as a whole.
Federation basically means that content from one instance will be shown to users on another instance and vice versa.
The content is the same, it's just shown in different ways, depending on the platform you're using. So, if you like the microblogging format you can use Mastodon as your daily driver. If you like the link-sharing format you can use Limmy/Kbin as your daily driver. If you like photo sharing you can use a Pixelfed account. You have a sh.itjust.works account. I can follow you on Kbin (https://kbin.social/u/@burndown@sh.itjust.works) or Mastodon (https://mstdn.social/@burndown@sh.itjust.works) or Pixelfed, etc.. I can send you a message from a Mastodon account, a Limmy account or a Kbin account, or a Pixelfed account. I can comment on this post from any of those accounts.
The fediverse is based on the ActivityPub standard that outlines content types (user, text, image, video, link, etc) and how people interact with them (following, blocking, boosting, favoriting, etc.). Each platform gives you a different way of interacting with the content and how the content is displayed. For example, Pixelfed doesn't show text posts - it is only interested in media posts (images and video), so if you follow someone's Mastodon account on Pixelfed you won't see everything they post. When they post images, the content is going to be displayed in an image-focused design. Mastodon shows posts based on the time they were posted, regardless of how many likes, boosts, or comments they have. Limmy and Kbin give you options to rank content based on favorites, boosts, and comments.
Same content, just a different way of seeing and interacting with it.
Beehaw is run by 4 admins. It's a very closed instance. You have to apply to have an account. Only the moderators can create communities. They have strict rules about what can be posted. The 4 moderators can't keep up with the comments that are being posted to their communities from federated instances. Because some instances allow anyone to sign up and create an account a troll can create an account, and post harassing comments in Beehaw communities. Beehaw can block that account, but the troll can just delete that account and start a new one.
Blocking the instance as a whole was the only option they have at the moment. They will need to make a decision on how they move forward, either by adding more moderators or continuing to block instances. The two they blocked aren't the only instances with open registration. Plus, since you can comment from any platform (Kbin, Mastodon, Pixelfed, PeerTube, etc.) there are a lot of instances out there that could be used to troll Beehaw.
I hope this is just a stop-gap measure and they will open back up when things cool down, but I'm worried that they just made themselves a target for more harassment.
That Reddit will not shut down. It will take the hit and go on and probably make at least some money. Only, it will be a much different place, more like Facebook or Instagram, in that it will be full of ads and less specific information....
#Lemmy now has 135,369 accounts. That is tracking with my expectations.
But while #Kbin had ~7,000 accounts yesterday, it’s just shot up to 30,930 accounts today.
While Lemmy is the 5th most used server software on the Fediverse, Kbin is now in 10th place and it’s growing at a faster rate than Lemmy.
A few days ago, I predicted that the #RedditMigration would result in 150,000-300,000 new accounts being created on the Fediverse. That expectation has already been met.
This #RedditMigration is fundamentally changing the course of the Fediverse. It’s moved the Fediverse from being primarily about microblogging to having more eclectic use cases.
While the #TwitterMigration validated that decentralized social media can appeal to millions of people, the #RedditMigration has validated that decentralized social media has man varied applications – both in the software and use case sense.
I am not unpleased to see that we could contribute to this #FediGrowth for #Kbin a bit with our discussion about the ethics underlying software development and the trust devs may or may not merit.
In the case of #Lemmy, they clearly don't.
Even having a distinct instance or even your own does not remedy that issue.
Only a #LemmyFork and defederating from the devs at least two instances would be a solution.
For a sub that’s supposed to promote Reddit alternatives, there sure is a lot of pessimism on there. I see so many people dismissing Lemmy and kbin already for being too inaccessible, the UI is clunky, it’s hard to pick up etc and saying these sites will never take off. But why? Of course a platform in its infancy will have...
An understandable but imo misguided decision. I am on Kbin so we're not affected yet but it's a bad precedent to set in this time of growth for defederation imo. It erodes trust in instances that practice it.
Well, people are looking for a exact replica of Reddit, with all of its fleshed out functionality and even content. They also want one monolithic app that can host every piece of information and every user ever on the same website. FOMO is real. However, it seems like most people don't understand that these new alternative websites will need time to be fleshed out technically and that to be able to do what Reddit does requires huge infrastructure and a way to afford that infrastructure. As long as the goal is corporate gains, we will never find that magical unicorn that will always make decisions based on users / general publics interest. What if we moved over to Squabbles? How long will Squabbles be able to afford itself until it gets big enough and makes the same changes that Reddit does / did?
Despite all of it's downfalls, that's where Federation really shines. Almost all Lemmy / Kbin servers are currently running at a personal hobby levels of investment (except the biggest instances) and the big instances are struggling with the demand because new users (me included when I opened up my account) are naturally choosing the biggest instances to sign up out of FOMO or fear of losing their accounts in the future.
Lemmy / Kbin and even the federation itself is not ready for general mass consumer. There will be growing pains, and lots of it. However, good thing about open source software, as long as there are people willing to populate these websites and generate content, we will always have people willing to contribute on the technical side of things as well. I truly believe if we can keep the federation alive, it will come to a point where it will be ready for the general consumer. We, the early adapters, in my humble opinion, should manage our expectations. We will not kill Reddit but we don't need to. We just need to keep Lemmy / Kbin / Mastodon and the federation alive.
that subreddit naturally has a pessimistic tone because they're all sick of reddit, but haven't felt that the alternatives presented are worth switching to. Lemmy has been posted on there a few times, and I myself was dismissive of it (and still now I do not use lemmy). kbin had what I wanted though, so I commented such on that subreddit and now here I am.
different people have different needs. sometimes, the alternative just isn't active enough to really be worth switching to (no one else is joining you). other times the ui might be clunky or weird or not something you like. the fediverse concept is a bit difficult for non-technical people. Though I think kbin's federation downtime kinda helped mitigate that for a lot of us (and there was a lot of educating here on kbin about what that was all about). for kbin you just join kbin. but lemmy it's a bit daunting with all the instances.
Agreed. While I am more favourable to platforms like Lemmy and Kbin on a more or less ideological level (I hate how the internet is essentially five companies in a trench coat at this point, all using user generated content and data for their own profits), Reddit as an experience isn't terrible enough for me to throw it away yet (or at least, these sites can't replicate what I'm looking for well enough to make me commit to jumping ship just yet).
I'm glad these platforms are getting a lot more attention, I'm glad to see them grow and mature (both in terms of userbase, but as well as functionality), and I want them to succeed. However, once the dust from the blackout has settled (most of the subs I normally visited are still private, which I fully support), I will probably jump back to Reddit until the restless march towards enshitification strikes once again, and I leave the platform more or less for good (with these platforms at the top of the list of alternatives for me to return to).
Do 5 year olds have email? Because it's kind of like that. You have an email address "someone@gmail.com" and you can send a message to "person2@hotmail.com". You don't both have to be on Gmail.
Well fediverse apps are kind of like this. Imagine lots of little reddits with their own communities and user bases.
You are your_name_here@kbin.social. You can talk to otherguy@lemmy.ml. Same goes for magazines/communities (subreddits). If you want to join a magazine on another server, you can do that like @technology (notice the leading @ symbol which tells Kbin that it's a magazine and not a user).
This is what is most important for the average user to understand about the fediverse. There is a ton more than this like interoperability with different apps that aren't thread based like Kbin and Lemmy like Mastodon but that's a different discussion.
(No soy chileno) Hace cuestión de año o año y medio me hice una cuenta en Lemmy, pero no duré mucho tiempo acá. Eran los tiempos en que comencé en Mastodon (que todavía me mantengo allí). Hoy trato de retornar por esta instancia e igualmente les quiero sugerir Jerboa for Lemmy, un app que parece prometer mucho. Si le...
La verdad si, el fediverso siempre ha sido algo de nicho y poco conocido, hasta antes del apagon de Reddit nunca habia visto ninguna mencion que conectara Chile con el fediverso, ni usuarios chilenos en ningun lado, asi de nicho era.
Ahora por lo que veo exploto en popularidad, probe mastodon hace tiempo pero nunca pude tener una comunidad hogar ahi. Ahora estoy en lemmy.world y por lo que veo ya Lemmy y Kbin llegaron a la masa critica para reemplazar a Reddit pero hay un problema: las apps de fediverso no fueron pensadas para aguantar masas de gente tan grandes. Ahora Lemmy tiene mucho desarrollo activo y la version 0.18 va a ser mucho mejor para instancias grandes ya que haran cosas como quitar los websockets que por lo que parece son un cacho y mejorar el codigo para que el feed se actualize mejor si esta en Active el orden (lo que hara que las frontpages de cada instancias se vean menos desiertas y mas activas)
La peor parte se la llevo kbin.social que tuvo que elegir entre desfederarse o colapsar debido a que crecio tanto, aunque ahora ya se estan recuperando
I took a good look around Lemmy and its instances, but found the UI a tad too compact and busy for my taste. kbin in comparison is a bit more relaxed and easier to read. And sign-ups were open when it was time to make my decision. That was literally it.
I'm quite new to Lemmy, one of the reddit refugees. I used reddit to mostly browse mapmaking, ttrpg's, adventure writing, D&D etc. Would love a little guidance on where I could find a nice community like that here on Lemmy.
Noticing some people levying that against people bringing up complaints about their experience here. It's not the spirit which I hope will prevail. Also, lazy cop out in a discussion.
I'm one of those new kids and I'm still struggling to wrap my head around a lot of things. Like I understand the concept of federation, but I can't figure out how to use the tools (if they exist) for distinguishing between local and federated stuff. What makes federated threads show up here on kbin? Are there any that don't? I guess I'm just unclear on the execution in practice.
I'm seeing the federated content, but it's hard to tell where the content came from. Currently, the only reliable way to see the source is by reading the URL when you're viewing a thread. It doesn't work well on mobile though and it doesn't work for the feed....
Although I didn't know we were going to be able to see each other today (hello peeps! Pleasure to meet you) and I thought I was on a Lemmy Instance talking about what they are doing on Kbin
Because they don't get listed by browse.feddit.de you'll want to browse https://kbin.social/magazines to browse "magazines", which is what they call communities...
This is great but I am still unable to search for communities in kbin. At least I tried !politics and !opensource a few time the last few minutes but still no result.
Does the Midwest server not store essentially dead communities from other servers? For example I can find and join technology@beehaw but not iasip@lemmy.ml. I am guessing because the IASIP community doesn't meet some content or engagement threshold. But, I want to post there so it will meet the threshold! It seems like this...
Does this apply to Kbin magazines as well? I've been trying to sub to !squaredcircle without much luck; I've searched it a few times, and while there's a few other Kbin magazines that come up on a search in the communities list, that one remains elusive.
Just found out that DuckDuckGo can be used to search Fediverse sites easily.
If you didn't know, on DuckDuckGo you can search for posts or magazines with site:kbin.social just like you would with Reddit. The same applies to any other Fediverse site like Kbin, Lemmy, Mastodon, etc.. I was really frustrated because it seems like Google was intentionally suppressing them....
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OC Potentially unpopular opinion: It may be time to close registrations (temporarily).
Hey kbinMeta....
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The harsh truth is...
That Reddit will not shut down. It will take the hit and go on and probably make at least some money. Only, it will be a much different place, more like Facebook or Instagram, in that it will be full of ads and less specific information....
What’s with the cynicism towards Lemmy on r/RedditAlternatives and Reddit in general?
For a sub that’s supposed to promote Reddit alternatives, there sure is a lot of pessimism on there. I see so many people dismissing Lemmy and kbin already for being too inaccessible, the UI is clunky, it’s hard to pick up etc and saying these sites will never take off. But why? Of course a platform in its infancy will have...
What is fediverse and why is it so talked about in this site?
fediverse?
Hablando de Lemmy...
(No soy chileno) Hace cuestión de año o año y medio me hice una cuenta en Lemmy, pero no duré mucho tiempo acá. Eran los tiempos en que comencé en Mastodon (que todavía me mantengo allí). Hoy trato de retornar por esta instancia e igualmente les quiero sugerir Jerboa for Lemmy, un app que parece prometer mucho. Si le...
Why did you choose your instance?
I'm currently struggling to find my home. I have an account here at lemmy.ml, where most of my posts are, and one at kbin....
Is there a ttrpg / D&D community on here? (beehaw.org)
I'm quite new to Lemmy, one of the reddit refugees. I used reddit to mostly browse mapmaking, ttrpg's, adventure writing, D&D etc. Would love a little guidance on where I could find a nice community like that here on Lemmy.
I hope that "Go back to Reddit" doesn't become a recurring jab used against others in the fediverse
Noticing some people levying that against people bringing up complaints about their experience here. It's not the spirit which I hope will prevail. Also, lazy cop out in a discussion.
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Now that federation works, we need more clarity of source
I'm seeing the federated content, but it's hard to tell where the content came from. Currently, the only reliable way to see the source is by reading the URL when you're viewing a thread. It doesn't work well on mobile though and it doesn't work for the feed....
YSK that kbin.social is now federating, adding hundreds of communities and ~26k more users content
Because they don't get listed by browse.feddit.de you'll want to browse https://kbin.social/magazines to browse "magazines", which is what they call communities...
/r/de bis einschließlich Sonntag, dem 18.06., im Blackout German
http://spezistdoof.de
Can't see all communities on other servers?
Does the Midwest server not store essentially dead communities from other servers? For example I can find and join technology@beehaw but not iasip@lemmy.ml. I am guessing because the IASIP community doesn't meet some content or engagement threshold. But, I want to post there so it will meet the threshold! It seems like this...