Gee… I guess most people in the US haven’t yet realized why the US is constantly “defending” itself by sowing mass-murder and misery in everybody else’s countries?
Either that… or liberals are just really sore at Trump for saying the quiet part out loud.
I’m saying musk has never believed in the free market
Correct. No politican, economist or, indeed, capitalist “believes” in the (so-called) “free market” - they all know perfectly well that it’s a fairy tale designed to justify them and their cronies parasitizing at everybody and everything else’s expense. The regime that made Musk’s billions possible - the Apartheid-regime - knew perfectly well that the “free market” was a big, fat lie all the way back in 1948. That’s why they built all the public infrastructure that enriched white people’s lives (including Elon’s) while repressing the majority of South Africans into becoming the glorified indentured labour that made Elon’s daddy rich.
It’s no different than “hearts & minds,” “spreading civilization” or Cinderella’s glass slipper. They all know it and they have always all known it.
Because it’s too late for anyone to do anything with this information. It’s the same reason why they don’t mind us knowing about the SS-level war crimes the US perpetrated in Vietnam - they know it’s far too late for the majority of people in the US to care.
Wow, you put a lot of time and effort in to useless drivel.
Says the liberal after posting a reply that’s wearing out my scroll button.
A system does not need someone to dictate inequality,
Yes. It actually does. Or do you think the US is fundamentally white supremacist by sheer coincidence?
At no point have I argued that a justice system should subjugate the many for the benefit of the few.
Of course not, liberal! You were simply arguing for an entirely superficial change to a (so called) “justice system” that subjugate the many for the benefit of the few. Totally nothing suspicious about that at all!
but words have meaning
Again, liberal… fascism doesn’t have a definition. It isn’t - and has never been - a consistent ideology that enables definition.
We can play this game all night long - you can give me any “definition” of fascism you can find on the net, and I will easily use actual history to tear them into pieces with next-to-zero effort.
Do you want to?
Please, source your definiton for Fascism.
Again, liberal… fascism doesn’t have a definition. It isn’t - and has never been - a consistent ideology that enables definition.
Please state how many times I’m going to have to repeat myself before something begins to gel for you - it will really lubricate this conversation.
Didn’t you just accuse me of being liberal twice in the same fucking post?
Tell me you didn’t know that liberalism is a right-wing ideology without telling me that you didn’t know liberalism is a right-wing ideology. Have you never wondered why you are so eager to make excuses for your fascist brethren?
No? Perhaps it’s time to start.
Now, if you have any intention to seriously debate about justice system reform,
No, liberal - I will not debate “justice system reform” with you. I have no interest in “reforming” your precious status quo so that you can feel better about the violence that maintains your position of privilege within it.
I’m waiting for your “definitions” with baited breath, liberal. Go on.
I hope this will not take you long.
I checked about a dozen from different sources,
Liberal… are you trying to tell me that you need to check sources to tell me that your ideology is left or right? You didn’t actually know that before deciding that your canned feels should be taken seriously in a political argument?
Yeah… that’s peak liberalism, all right. The grandiose entitlement is characteristic.
Do tell, liberal - what else don’t you know but should be granted “honorary expertise” in?
Did your sources explain to you that liberalism is pro-capitalist, liberal? Did your sources explain the complementary and close relationship between capitalism and fascism to you, liberal?
No? I guess your only explanation for the reasons why capitalists funds fascism into power within liberal nation states is “for shits and giggles?”
A reasonable person can conclude from this that…
A “reasonable person” wouldn’t be faking knowledge on subject matter that they barely have working knowledge about, liberal. I think that we’ve pretty much established that you don’t conform to that description.
Address the point, or tacitly admit you have no intent to debate in good faith and kindly fuck off.
No, liberal - defend your ideology, and defend your ideology’s proximity to fascism. You know… the ideology that you had to “check sources” for find out whether it was left or right?
Not willing to put any of your copypasta “definitions” to the test, eh liberal?
Why am I not surprised?
One, or maybe 2 addressable point
You mean… apart from?
defend your ideology, and defend your ideology’s proximity to fascism.
At least fascists and tankies have the gumption to try and defend their beliefs - you liberals duck and dive out of an argument simply because you are too damn fragile to handle the fact that liberalism is, in fact, an ideology.
You don’t have to. If you view the world through the lens of liberal ideology, you are a liberal - regardless of the labels you self-apply.
Liberal, (at least where I’m from) means that you interpret the rules of society with some leeway
Then you misunderstand your own ideology. Liberalism allows absolutely no leeway when it comes to the (alleged) necessity of private property, for instance. In complete contradiction, it allows no leeway when it comes to the (alleged) necessity of (so-called) “rule of law” - a contradiction, of course, that can only be solved by ensuring the law doesn’t apply to those who own the largest share of all the private property.
So where is this “leeway” you speak of?
Since you refuse to accept a definiton for fascism,
Oh, I never said I’d refuse a definition of fascism - I’ve read far more of them than you have. None of them actually manages to “define” fascism. Look at my second paragraph - it’s childishly easy to demonstrate the logical contradictions in your ideology - liberalism has so many inherent contradictions that it, too, is extremely difficult to define satisfactorily. Fascism comprises an ideological framing that contains absolutely nothing inside it that is coherent or consistent in any way whatsoever - are you starting to see the problem with “definitions” of fascism?
The worst of them, by far, are the ones written by liberals - no surprises there. Liberals are desperately anxious to ignore the fact that fascism originates from the very status quo (you know… “rule of law” and “private property” and associated schtick) liberals are invested in preserving. They are anxious to ignore the fact that fascism originates from the very violence that is used to enforce the liberal order.
The Marxist ones are quite a bit better - but still fail to hit the mark. I’m just going to go ahead and assume you didn’t even know those existed before now.
Please, with some decorum, address your point,
Not my point at all, liberal. Your logical fallacy. Remember this?
Because going all the way takes us back to caveman society.
I requested you provide any evidence to prop up this silly Hollywood trope that you knee-jerk conflated with reality faster than Ben Shapiro snorts copium.
Oh… now we’re no longer talking about “definitions,” are we? We have now shifted to “general frameworks?”
And you accuse me of shifting goalposts?
Despite this, you still expect other people
Yes, liberal - I still expect you to defend your ideology and your ideology’s proximity to fascism.
so that we may actually discuss it.
We are discussing it, liberal - which part of this…
They (liberals) are anxious to ignore the fact that fascism originates from the very violence that is used to enforce the liberal order.
…are you having a hard time understanding? We are discussing the very roots of fascism - which happens to be the very same roots of your precious liberal status quo.
Are you anxious to ignore that too, liberal? For someone that claims to not be “constrained to the ideological boundaries” of liberalism, you sure seem to be acting no different than a bog-standard liberal pearl-clutcher when it comes to confronting the fascism that violently enforces your precious status quo for you.
Do tell, liberal… where were you when antifascists were actually fighting neo-nazis, klan-boys and their pig-friends in the streets a few years ago? Let me guess… heckling the antifascists from the sidelines? Like a good liberal is supposed to?
Will you be doing the same come November?
My assertion here is that there has not been a perfect, equitable society in human history.
Why are you peddling the same pretexts and justifications for fascism that the alt-right peddles?
The ideological gap between you and fascism seems to be shrinking with every exchange.
than throw out the everything and live without society
Soooo… as you have provided zero evidence to prove that your zombie-fiction tropes will come to pass as soon as fascist violence doesn’t enforce your precious liberal order for you, I must assume that you are simply too squeamish to admit your endorsement of said fascist violence (as long as it isn’t aimed at you, of course)
I’d say we’ve come to the point where there is only one thing left to be discerned… why do you even bother hiding it?
No, really, liberal - where the fuck do you see anything that can be called left with a straight face contesting anything in the formal political establishment?
Or is it just that you got your cartoonish and Reagen-esque idea of what left and right even means from hysterical liberals and fascists on CNN and Fox news?
you just fabricated your idea of what the other dude thinks in that second paragraph.
No, I didn’t. If you think there’s anything “leftist” about the formal political establishment it indicates a very specific form of brain-rot that is childishly easy to trace to the mass misrepresentation of political concepts one can easily find simply by turning on a television. Both liberals and their fascist fellow-travellers suffer from this brain-rot… and it’s symptoms are perfectly predictable.
One of the vilest messiahs of US “libertarianism,” Murray Rothbard, associated with Holocaust deniers and argued for the pig to be allowed to torture suspects (not people convicted of anything - suspects).
If your roots are fascist, you are fascist. US “libertarianism” is about as fascist as Heinrich Himmler.
Now that lemmy is overflowing with liberals - people who get their ideas of what political concepts actually mean from CNN and “Law & Order” reruns - I am constantly having to deal with people who don’t know where the ideologies they cling to come from. or even means in reality.
So I guess these (supposed) “libertarians” isn’t alone in that regard.
Trump's social media account shares a campaign video with a headline about a 'unified Reich' (apnews.com)
Trump has a very long history of using this kind of thing to say what the campaign is thinking about doing....
Sorry for bringing politics into this community... (lemmy.world)
Free-Market Advocate, Elon Musk, Asks for U.S. Government to Put Tariffs on Chinese EV Imports (medium.com)
New 9/11 Evidence Points to Deep Saudi Complicity (www.theatlantic.com)
They don't make 'em like this anymore (lemmy.today)
Useless red circle, I know, but in my defense I didn’t put it there, it was already like this when I found it.
Programming is really easy (lemmy.world)
Pigs be like... (lemmy.world)
Trump flattened for talking about executing Biden before gun owners (www.rawstory.com)
If you are a Libertarian and hold liberty as your core value, why do you not believe in universal healthcare? Nothing impacts liberty more than sickness and death.
Meanwhile, Marx: "Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class" (media.kbin.social)