arstechnica.com

MagnumDovetails, to technology in AMAs are the latest casualty in Reddit’s API war

AMAs died when Reddit fired Victoria, they haven’t been worth a shit in a while.

nevernevermore,
nevernevermore avatar

They mention this in the article

HerrLewakaas,

Who is Victoria?

newjunkcity,
Stovetop,

In the statement from the AMA mods, they stated that if Reddit wanted to continue providing that sort of celebrity outreach that they had been doing for free, they should hire a liaison for that.

Before the mods took that responsibility on for themselves, Victoria (/u/chooter on Reddit) used to be that person.

Victoria was able to pull in some big names for AMAs, and she was good at identifying good/interesting questions and helping with submitting responses. Reddit unceremoniously fired her one day and the quality of celebrity AMAs dropped significantly after that.

sorenant,

Victoria leaving was tragic but can we talk about Rampart?

Sinister_Grape,

I always have time to talk about Rampart.

Got_Bent,

I just had a good laugh at myself because rampart is so non-existent in my mind, that I had to Google what the hell you were talking about.

So Woody Harrelson is forever famous for the worst AMA ever because he aggressively plugged a movie that must’ve been so bad and irrelevant that I have no idea what people are talking about when they reference it today.

substill,

Lol I remember someone in that thread asking Woody if he remembered taking a high school girl to her prom and knocking her up. And the social media manager faking Woody’s involvement just answering “can we stick to the movie?”

Mic_Check_One_Two,

Yeah the entire AMA was a dumpster fire, but that was when things really devolved. It quickly got upvoted to the top, and it refused to die. Every single comment he made was quickly bombed with “why haven’t you answered that prom question yet” responses.

henfredemars, to technology in BotDefense is leaving Reddit

What Reddit fails to understand with their decades of industry experience and 2k employees is that without their users, they don’t have a product. Moderators work for free. Creators work for free. These people didn’t do it for Reddit. They did it for you and me.

And then like three developers in their spare time ate their lunch.

veroxii,

Your point stands, but just wanted to point out that the lemmy devs have been working full time on this for the last 3 years, funded by nlnet.nl

Nugget,

I had no idea about that foundation - it seems like they’ve done a lot of great work. Thanks for sharing!

Anders429,

I think they do understand this, to a point. That’s why they keep threatening their mods instead of outright removing them.

Infinitus,

He was a Co creator.

Anders429,

I think you accidentally responded to the wrong comment. I assume you meant to respond to the comment below asking whether spez was with Reddit since the beginning.

Infinitus,

Yeah, I did

gk99,

Except they have outright removed a bunch. All but two of the r/TIHI mods were purged, as an example.

HelloHotel,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

Their reopening efforts aren’t looking so hot…

r/tihi as of [Sat Jul 8 19:30:18 EDT 2023] looks like its back to pre protest affairs

Bonehead,

It looks like it's back, but are they really? One of the posts from the last 12 hours is "Thanks, I hate the new Sonic" with a still from the movie before they reworked it. I smell a repost bot in action to make it look like there's more traffic...

linearchaos,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

And they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for spez being an open raging asshole.

sentient_loom,

Did spez create reddit or did they just hire him?

Vag_of_Honor,

He’s one of 3 founders iirc

Mozami,
Mozami avatar

He's one of the founders of Reddit. The other two being Aaron Swartz and Alexis Ohanian.

sentient_loom,

Are Swartz and Ohanian still around? Are they all trying to cash in?

I can understand wanting to get retirement money out of your long-term project, but we're not obliged to stick around and assist in the degradation of a once-great platform.

awderon,

Swartz unfortunately died in 2013.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz?wprov=sfti1

sentient_loom,

Whoa, I didnt know that guy was involved with reddit. He's the anti-spez.

Strolleypoley,

And yet, with all that supposed experience they still fail to maintain a decent platform.

There’s a reason nobody uses their official app.

nitefox,

Most people use their official app

relative_iterator,
@relative_iterator@sh.itjust.works avatar

Most people probably just interact with it through the browser via google searches.

TimeIncarnate,

Nah, nearly 90% of mobile users interact with Reddit via the official app (most people use Reddit on mobile devices).

terny,

Damn, it’s so strange knowing that it’s so bad and yet people use it. Goes to show just how important the content is even with such terrible UX.

Mankablastodicopium,
Mankablastodicopium avatar

most people don't even bother trying it, from the few that I've seen that do converted real quick.

relative_iterator,
@relative_iterator@sh.itjust.works avatar

I meant any browser including phones.

loz,

It’s worse than that, when this all started I had a look at their Wikipedia entry. They have 2000 employees across 5 locations. What in the ever loving Christ are they all doing if that app is the best they can do?

holycrap,

Most of them are either admins (read: global moderators to enforce site wide policy) and “community builders” that spam subreddits with reposts and junk to boost activity. Some of that spam was malicious bots of course, but a lot was also from reddit themselves. That’s why the site appears as active as it is with so many content creators leaving.

Their development team is probably very small.

loz,

Jesus it sounds like they took a look at /r/subredditsimulator and thought, “hey let’s make the whole site like that”.

DragonAce,

I mean what do you think they were doing for all those years? I still remember when r/subredditsimulator would frequently pop up on the front page because of some of the ridiculous and funny things the AI language models would post. But eventually over time as they learned to mimic typical user posts, it got to a point where it was a clone of every other sub on the site and everyone sort of forgot about it. So I honestly would not doubt for a second that they’ve spread them out to numerous subs and are using them as content creators to try and keep subs appearing active.

archomrade,

This sounds really dumb, but the “activity” is primarily what draws new users and keeps existing ones. The primary complaint/desire of new Lemmy users is more/sustained activity on the platform. That’s also what keeps people using Twitter and other SM platforms.

For a company approaching an IPO, increasing amd sustaining activity from real users is maybe the second most important thing to do, second only to showing a clear route to monetization. It doesnt surprise me their team may be mostly admin and “community builders”, but it does surprise me that they’d risk loosing major contributors and moderators without a clear replacement.

tonytins,
@tonytins@pawb.social avatar

Sums up all communities. Doesn’t matter how much money you have, the “social” part always wins.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

However, they do understand that the APIcalypse will make their financial figures look great, and that’s what actually matters in the coming IPO. They also understand that these actions will hurt the site and that the fallout will come at a notable delay. However, by the time it’s clear the site has only a few months to live, the previous owners have already taken the money and left. At that point, it’s a problem for the new owners. Let them figure out how to fix a sinking ship.

zurohki,

they do understand that the APIcalypse will make their financial figures look great

That would require people to actually pay that API pricing. The apps closing down and AI people scraping the web site instead won’t help them.

Paralda,

Also, AI only really needs to scrape a post once. I don’t think there will be much financial gain from openai or someone else scraping reddit

awderon,

They don’t even need to scrape it. There is a torrent out there with all the data for the last 10 years or so neatly packaged.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Ahh, but it’s a bit more subtle than that.

The API pricing was a tool to kill the apps, because Reddit is not able to milk ad money from those users. Now that most of the 3rd party apps are dead and most subs are open, users have no choice but to be exposed to adds. That’s where the real money is.

zurohki,

Yeah, but Reddit makes pennies per user from showing them ads, so they’re still losing money.

Rather than laughing all the way to the bank, it’s more of a forced chuckle on the way to the dole office.

JimmyMcGill,

They do have a choice though. They can just not use Reddit at all, and/or come here.

AToM_exe, to tech in Twitter commandeers @X username from man who had it since 2007

That’s an exremly shitty thing to do. I don’t know how anyone can still be behind this company…

nottheengineer,

If I owned it, I’d definitely be behind it.

thingsiplay,
thingsiplay avatar

@nottheengineer I don't own it, and am still behind it.

Anomandaris,
Anomandaris avatar
thingsiplay,
thingsiplay avatar

@Anomandaris You know what sarcasm is?

Anomandaris,
Anomandaris avatar

C'mon bro, it's 2023, if I have to tell you that sarcasm is difficult to determine through text then that's your fault, not mine.

thingsiplay,
thingsiplay avatar

@Anomandaris No. Its your fault not mine. It's apparent from the context I replied to. Think before you reply.

HeartyBeast,
HeartyBeast avatar

Unfortunately, no. If you were relying on it’s absurdity to make it look like sarcasm, you were unfortunately indistinguishable from a Musk fanboi

wanderingmagus,

The ratio says otherwise.

grte,

Your sarcasm was not well done. Do better next time.

BlackPenguins,

If you don’t put an /s at the end, SpongeBob case it, or stretch syllables in words it’s not sarcasm. Learn to Internet.

BitterSweet,

Context didn’t help you, I also presumed you supported X. Just use tone indicators to avoid any confusion. it’s two characters for “/s”. Little cringe todo initially but it helps ppl and avoids confusion.

Polar,

While I agree, no one should be behind this shit company, it’s quite a standard thing to do.

Literally every social media platform has the ability to reset a users username so they can free it up. It happens all the time.

Are you famous enough? Cool, contact any company about taking over the username “Jake” and they’ll give you it. Doesn’t matter that the other dudes name is Jake. Doesn’t matter they had it first. Doesn’t matter that it isn’t a trademarked name.

Art3sian,
@Art3sian@lemmy.world avatar

It didn’t work for Beyoncé. She tried to take the brand, Blu Ivy off an Australian company so her daughter could have it. Australia said get fucked.

An American wedding planner also had the name, and America told Beyoncé to get fucked too.

conciselyverbose,

You don't have a legal right to demand it.

But the platform can just give it to you as they see fit.

JustAManOnAToilet,

Just look at what happened to Jake from state farm. They even took the man’s khakis.

GunnarRunnar,

It's not really that shitty in context with Musk's everyday doings. I'm honestly not surprised at all.

If this was the worst of him, I'd be able to handle it (even though it indeed is a shitty thing to do and devalues Twitter handles [which is imo actually a good thing]).

azdood85,

Musk’s everyday doings

Speaking of his everyday doings. Has anyone investigated all those underage illegal migrant children he has in his bathroom shower? Or was that just a rumor started on “the app formerly known as twitter”?

xc2215x,

It is but that is who Musk is.

Mozami, to RedditMigration in Reddit mods fear spam overload as BotDefense leaves “antagonistic” Reddit
Mozami avatar

Reddit was antagonistic when they removed moderators from subreddits, banned their accounts, and did everything else they possibly could to quell the protests. The behavior they're exhibiting to this day isn't new.

trynn, to RedditMigration in Op-ed: Why the great #TwitterMigration didn’t quite pan out
trynn avatar

This article kind of misses the forest for the trees. While I agree with many of the author's points, that's not why the failed. It failed because Twitter/Mastodon isn't really a social networking site, and Mastodon didn't provide the same service that Twitter does. At its core, Twitter is about small numbers of (usually famous or important) users communicating with large audiences of followers. failed because not enough of those famous and important people moved from Twitter to Mastodon, so the average user had no content they cared to read. Seeing posts from your friends about what they had for dinner last night is all well and good, but the stuff people actually want to see is famous person A throwing shade at famous person B while famous person C talks about the new movie they're in and important organization D posts a warning about severe weather in the area. You don't go to Twitter to have discussions, you go to Twitter to get news and gossip direct from the source.

In contrast, sites like Reddit and kBin/Lemmy are about having group conversations around a topic. Interacting with famous people is neat but not the point. Think of Reddit/kBin/Lemmy as random conversations at a party whereas Twitter/Mastodon is some random person on the corner shouting to a crowd from a soapbox. has a much better chance of succeeding simply because the purpose of the site is different. As long as enough people move to kBin/Lemmy to have meaningful conversations (aka content), it will have succeeded.

Ertebolle,

The famous people did move over for certain specific groups; app developers are pretty much all on Mastodon now, the WWDC chatter / visionOS experimentation / etc is way more active on there than on Twitter. (Of course if any group ought to be uniquely pissed off at both Twitter and Reddit, it’s app developers)

archomrade,

I agree with this, except many of the most followed users on Twitter are being mirrored on Mastodon. For lurkers like me, that scratches the itch just fine

kimagure,

not enough of those famous and important people moved from Twitter to Mastodon

This is the reason I'm still using Twitter. I use Twitter not to tweet about what I did, but to get news from people I follow.
Tech people can move to Mastodon because their circles are moving, but not with common people.
For me, personally, Mastodon is like empty void. No one to follow and I can't interact with people who share same interests because they only exist on Twitter (since the "famous people" isn't moving from Twitter)

Machinist3359,

Wait until Meta joins the microblogiverse gunning for those VIP accounts eager too leave Twitter.

timdesuyo,

But Twitter only show you the messages from the people you follow that benefit Twitter.

lunarul,

Reddit migration will succeed for some communities and fail for others. Generic subs can live on with new mods and new subscribers. They're not much different from FB or Twitter. Just mindless content to feed that infinite scroll.

Specialized subs where the community as a whole (or a majority at least) decides to move to a new home will move (or have moved already), because for those the community is what matters, not the venue.

princessofcute,
princessofcute avatar

%100 this. I have Mastodon and use it sparingly because I found a good community but I still find myself going back to Twitter because most of the people I follow on Twitter haven't moved and most of the people I follow on Twitter are celebrities or influencers. The only way a will work is if most of the influencers and celebrities move off the platform as that's the content most regular users go for. With Reddit however we just need people that create good content to move, the lurkers will follow the content regardless of how "complicated" the platform is. The reddit lurkers won't stay on Reddit if there isn't any quality content being posted there, they may be satiated with reposts for a while but eventually they will leave and go looking for the content and if that content is on Kbin/Lemmy they will come here.

Arotrios, to RedditMigration in Reddit calls for “a few new mods” after axing, polarizing some of its best
Arotrios avatar

This is like an incel posting on a dating site after calling all women whores.

HipPriest,

That's a pretty good analogy, only he would have to specify that he still considers all women to be whores in his bio to be completely accurate.

Honestly though, it's desperate. I don't even want to know what's become of Accidental Renaissance 'Under New Management', I'm glad the original team are here though

livus,
livus avatar

I never actually saw it on reddit but am subscribed here.

igorlogius, (edited ) to tech in Brave aims to curb practice of websites that port scan visitors

For firefox: port-authority addon

edit:

Better to use uBlock Origin (which you should use anyway), and just enable the “Block outsider intrusion into lan” filter list, as pointed out by ch1cken. - Thanks!

!deleted95653, (edited )

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • igorlogius,

    Makes sense. +1

    ImaginaryFox,

    I love Ublock Origin so much. It does so much to make my browsing experience the best.

    floppingfish,

    What a great feature! Where would I find that setting on ubock origin?

    c0nflux,

    https://i.imgur.com/7xi7wbv.png

    Extension settings -> Filter Lists -> Check the box under 'Privacy'

    FreeBooteR69,
    FreeBooteR69 avatar

    Seems like something that should be a default setting.

    Kolanaki, to RedditMigration in Reddit mods fear spam overload as BotDefense leaves “antagonistic” Reddit
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    This was the first thing I assumed would happen when they announced the API pricing. A lot of spam prevention and deletion (hell, a lot of moderation period) is done by bots that use the API, made by people that likely can’t pay the new exorbitant fees to keep those going.

    JohnEdwa,
    JohnEdwa avatar

    Most bots actually would continue working, the free API allows for 100 requests a minute which for most is enough, and they have been manually adding exemptions for moderation bots that need more. The question is if the creators are willing to continue supporting them, for free, in the future. Plenty understandably do not.

    Also currently being a moderator (of any subreddit) allows you to bypass both the the rate limit and NSFW sub ban - which itself seems to be a manual list of mostly porn subs, as most of the subs that are nsfw as a protest still work so it isn't a blanket ban.

    thingsiplay,
    thingsiplay avatar

    @JohnEdwa The bots should not even hit the limit, otherwise its a hint for any anti-bot detection. Just create lot of small bots staying low on threshold to be detected. Together with an AI, then the missing bot detection utility and some missing moderators, Reddit should become a bigger pile than it is already.

    tungah, to tech in Buyers of Bored Ape NFTs sue after digital apes turn out to be bad investment

    It was a great investment for the people on the top of the pyramid. So it worked as it was supposed to. Suck it up and learn your lesson, idiots. It wasn’t for lack of warning.

    Dee, to science in No regrets: Gender-affirming chest surgery in adults has long-term satisfaction

    It’s great to have additional studies confirming this! But this is also what the trans community has been saying for years. Please just listen to us when it comes to our own bodies 🥲

    interolivary,
    @interolivary@beehaw.org avatar

    But isn’t this study exactly about asking trans folks how they feel about their top surgery? Not doing a study however would be ignoring the ones who didn’t feel satisfied with their surgery, and now those voices are included as well. They’re in the minority as expected, but at least now we have some sort of statistical validation for it as well

    Catoblepas,

    This is hardly the first study to look at satisfaction with gender confirmation surgery results.

    Dee,

    I was more referring to the common knowledge among the trans community that already knew this information prior to any studies. If you’re trans and in the community this is a “well no shit” kind of study. We’ve been telling it to cis people for years but the refusal to listen to that was palpable. That’s why I said it’s great to have additional studies to point to if they don’t want to listen to the trans community themselves, they can maybe listen to this study.

    Hyperreality,

    We’ve been telling it to cis people for years but the refusal to listen to that was palpable.

    Here's a Sartre quote about bigotry/fascists that you may find useful:

    “Never believe that [they] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. [They] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

    Dee,

    I’m aware, I’m not talking about those extremists however. I’m talking about the people who are unsure and potential allies. Yes, they still exist in 2023. I convinced one in my family just this past month after being patient and explaining concepts and terms. That’s the scenario these studies can be very helpful.

    OmnipotentEntity,
    @OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org avatar

    Even if it seems to be common sense to those inside the community, there is something to be said about getting actual data on the subject so that those outside the community at least have a touchstone for the reality those on the inside experience, because propagandists are working very hard to muddy the waters on this point and points like this one in particular. It might be a “no shit Sherlock” moment to you, but to people like my Fox News watching extended family, this study is something that contradicts their current mental model of the situation, and something that I am glad I have in my quiver when they start talking about the subject to me.

    Dee,

    I’m not sure if it was your intention or you didn’t read the second half of my comment but you essentially repeated the point I just made, therefore, yes I agree.

    OmnipotentEntity,
    @OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org avatar

    Oh snap, I did somehow miss that. My bad.

    PerCarita,

    What’s this, a civil discussion on the internet? Well, I never… You’re both so wholesome, if I were still on Reddit and seeing this, you’d both get a badge each

    dingus, to science in Gonorrhea is becoming unstoppable; highly resistant cases found in US
    @dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Just to be clear, a little googling around about the drugs in question seems to indicate major use of Ceftriaxone (the front line antibiotic for gonorrhea) and its analogues in factory farming.


    Reuters: Special Report: Powerful antibiotic for cows often misused by farmers: reuters.com/…/special-report-powerful-antibiotic-…

    Zoetis says ceftiofur is safe to use as directed. “The use of ceftiofur continues to be appropriate when used according to the label directions in those animals that are in at-risk situations,” said Scott Brown, vice president of global therapeutics research at Zoetis.

    The stakes are especially high because the drug is part of a crucial class of antibiotics called cephalosporins. The class includes ceftriaxone, a drug that’s vital to treating pneumonia, meningitis and salmonella infections in children, according to the FDA. The use of one type of cephalosporin can compromise the effectiveness of others in the same class.

    “There is a very clear link between ceftiofur use and ceftriaxone resistance,” said Paul Fey, a professor of microbiology at University of Nebraska Medical Center. “We know that ceftiofur-resistant salmonella are clearly ceftriaxone-resistant.”


    So what’s really distressing here to me is that this likely isn’t even from human overuse, and this affects diseases other than just gonorrhea.


    Antibiotic use in pig farming and its associated factors in L County in Yunnan, China: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8025606/

    Personal Note: This is not meant to single out China for anything, antibiotic use is out of control for farmers all over the planet. This was just one of the first results that came up for “ceftriaxone farming.”

    The use of 20 antibiotics was reported, with oxytetracycline, penicillin, amoxicillin, cefoperazone, norfloxacin, ceftriaxone, ofloxacin, cefradine, chloramphenicol and sulfadiazine ranking in the top 10 as reported by 213 (52.7%), 182 (45.1%), 156 (38.6%), 82 (20.3%), 78 (19.3%), 75 (18.6%), 73 (18.1%), 64 (15.8%), 40 (9.9%) and 39 (9.6%) of the 404 surveyed farmers, respectively (Table 13). These antibiotics were the most commonly used ones by the surveyed farmers in pig rearing. The other 10 antibiotics used are also presented in Table 13. We sorted the 20 antibiotics into nine different classes based on their chemical structures. Table 14 presents the nine classes of antibiotics with the class of penicillin ranking the first (mentioned by 338 farmers), followed by tetracyclines (mentioned by 223 farmers).


    It’s really distressing how factory farming is making a huge impact on the ability of antibiotics to continue to be effective.

    JasSmith,

    Personal Note: This is not meant to single out China for anything

    We should. China and India are the worst culprits when it comes to prophylactic use of antibiotics for livestock (and reportedly humans). The practise is strictly controlled in OECD nations for this exact reason.

    iraq_lobster,

    animal farming is the worst: methane production which is a more potent grennhouse gaz. antibiotic resistance…its messed up!

    feifei,
    WagnasT,
    feifei,
    feifei,

    Yeah, kurzgesagt is neither the pinnacle of science nor research. youtu.be/m0tCYhWlT8U

    upforitbutnotdownforit,
    upforitbutnotdownforit avatar

    Lab-grown meat. Lab-grown meat is the answer.

    norawibb,

    kid named vegetables

    feifei,

    It’s not.

    youtu.be/V0zCf4Yup34

    jayrodtheoldbod,

    The answer is learn to eat fuckin beans.

    upforitbutnotdownforit,
    upforitbutnotdownforit avatar

    I really enjoy the use of the word "learn" here. I can see somebody sitting, stressed, in front of a can of beans, just not knowing what to do

    AnarchistArtificer,

    This absolutely cracked me up because I’ve actually been in that scenario. Granted, it was more about the can that I didn’t have a means to open than the beans, but still

    jayrodtheoldbod,

    The big exam comes around, you show up with your pencil and calculator. Nope. Can of beans. Sorry sir, once you’ve sat for the test there’s no leaving. Good luck. 80 college students pounding it against the floor at once.

    ccryx,

    Water and land use (for growing feed crops) are insane as well.

    stanleytweedle, to technology in Threads attracts 30M users in 24 hours despite design flaws, privacy concerns | Ars Technica

    ‘Despite’ seems out of place here. Those 30M users didn’t sign up ‘despite’ the flaws, they give no fucks about how flawed their social media is.

    Like me saying I eat bacon sandwiches despite the health consequences.

    iAmTheTot,
    iAmTheTot avatar

    ... What do you think despite means?

    eponymous_anonymous,

    I think it’s a name for a type of old, old, wooden ship

    becool,

    despite not knowing what it means, in this context, it means whatever affords me the chance to nitpick. in essence, despite lacking any authority to make such a decision, and the absence of any motivation to the contrary, i define words how i like. the result is that, despite my efforts, my arguments are incoherent. however, in lieu of better alternatives, despite, which heretofore had usually be defined such that it always was in reference to spiting a particular thing.

    Onii-Chan,
    Onii-Chan avatar

    100% this. For everyone that takes their online privacy and freedom very seriously, there are literal millions of others who couldn't give less of a fuck and proudly parrot the "if you have nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about" bullshit, like they're some enlightened cunt atop their own tower who conveniently ignores the consequences of every company that experiences a major data breach.

    These people are the reason the internet has devolved as hard as it has, and it makes me sick to know there's nothing that can be done to stop things from only getting worse - the masses enable the surveillance capitalist machine, and what's worse is that they've become convinced they need it to survive. Meta pushing their fucking nose into places it isn't welcome, like the fediverse, just further proved it to me. These big tech firms will not stop until they own a piece of every free region of the internet, and they know that no matter how vocal their opponents are, that the lobotomized fuckwits that make up the bulk of their userbase will just lap up anything they put out.

    Social media was a fucking huge mistake.

    r4venw,
    r4venw avatar

    Not to sound like a naïve, brain dead optimist but maybe this is our chance to draw our line in the sand. If Threads falls on its face, it will likely serve as precedence for other companies who think they can use the fediverse for their own gain, no?

    As Louis Rossmann says, "never go to war with the internet because you will lose". I'd like to think that the people who make that quote possible are all migrating or have migrated to the fediverse.

    Onii-Chan,
    Onii-Chan avatar

    We need optimism, especially now. I hope you're right.

    vinnymac,

    Seeing Mastodon’s blog post on Threads removed all optimism I had stored in this area.

    Mostly_Harmless,
    Mostly_Harmless avatar

    They're already on Insta, so they're really not giving up anything extra

    czech, to tech in Judge rules White House pressured social networks to “suppress free speech”

    This is about attempts to stop folks from spreading provably wrong info online that's killing people. It's like protecting the free speech of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.

    The headline is also overstated. Its a preliminary injunction and of course its from a Trump nominee.

    But Judge Terry Doughty, a Trump nominee at US District Court for the Western District of Louisiana, granted the plaintiffs' request for a preliminary injunction imposing limits on the Department of Health and Human Services, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,

    CoCoIchibanCurry,
    CoCoIchibanCurry avatar

    But if the government can pressure platforms to remove provably false information that is actively killing people, it will have a chilling effect on my constitutional freedom to lie to people. Won't somebody please think of the grifters and anti-sciencers?

    hiyaaaaa23,

    Oh no

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    In a land where "lies" are suppressed, he who claims to know the truth is king. The sentiment of suppressing lies is perhaps rightous, but who determines the truth? It damn well wasn't scientists during the pandemic.

    Edit: hell, even Zuck himself said he was told to censor true information.

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    If you actually listened to scientists during the pandemic, or read papers - you would you know that the main theme was "there is lots of stuff we don't know, or are unsure about". Given that, however - there needed to be public health guidance based on the best evidence and probablitlities at the time.

    On the other side, there were people spouting, unsourced, unsupported, nonsensical bullshit that would directly contribute to people killing themselves.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    They were literally just making up arbitrary rules that had nothing to do with science, and saying it WAS based on science. Meanwhile the then director of the CDC said we should investigate if the virus came from a lab as well as if it had a natural origin, and was forcibly sidelined as a result. Don't even try to say they were following the science.

    Edit: Also, if you're not even sure what the truth is, what gives you the right to silence people that have a different opinion? It makes no sense. Where is the authority to silence coming from?

    HeartyBeast, (edited )
    HeartyBeast avatar

    They were literally just making up arbitrary rules that had nothing to do with science, and saying it WAS based on science.

    Give me a solid example of the "they" in this case, the rule in question and the date that that the rule was imposed.

    Meanwhile the then director of the CDC said we should investigate if the virus came from a lab as well as if it had a natural origin, and was forced to resign as a result.

    Are you talking about Rochelle Walensky? If so, there are many possible reasons why she decided to resign, but I can't find a single source saying it was because she said there should be an investigation into Covid's source.

    Edit: Ah, you are talking about Robert R. Redfield. So from what I can tell, his downfall was that he wasn't being scientific - he stated that the he thought it most likely that it was a lab-leak, and that certainly didn't win him any friends because the assertions he made weren't well supported. But was he "forced to resign because of that" - looking at the coverage from back then, he was under fire for multiple reasons, not just that. I don't think we can say that was the sole or even main reason for his departure.

    Also, if you're not even sure what the truth is, what gives you the right to silence people that have a different opinion? It makes no sense. Where is the authority to silence coming from?

    Because the process of science (especially in fast-moving situations) is all about producing increasingly accurate pictures of the truth. Scientists are highly resistant to characterising something as the truth - there often more to explore. You can absolutely have scientists with different opinions - but they will be looking at evidence, not just making stuff up.

    You ask

    What gives you the right to silence people that have a different opinion? It makes no sense. Where is the authority to silence coming from?

    The silencing isn't being done by scientists, its being done by public health officials and that is somewhat different,. Public health officials take the best evidence as presented by scientific consensus and have to create messaging designed to minimise the number of deaths and maximise wellbeing. If the scientific consensus is that vaccination is safe and effective - that messaging will save millions of lives. Some Russian bot factory amplying a ludicrous idea like "the vaccines will alter your DNA or make you infertile" is specifically designed to kill people.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I wholeheartedly disagree, and that's okay. What I think we CAN agree on is that leading experts (like the director of the CDC) shouldn't be silenced for suggesting we investigate the possibility of a lab leak, which is actually what happened.

    Edit: Here's the example you asked for:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner/

    Flaky_Fish69,
    Flaky_Fish69 avatar

    So if any one wants, I’m running a sale on Inverpectin.

    For the low price of 69.69, you could get a months supply- but wait, there’s more. If you order in the next 30 seconds, I’ll give you a second months supply free- up to six months when you buy six! That’s a years worth of protection from Covick!

    (Please note the evil FDA and CDC are saying inverpectin doesn’t do what I say it does, and is insisting Inveepeftin caused man-boob development. It’s all lied! I swear!)

    jimbolauski,

    deleted_by_moderator

  • Loading...
  • C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Thank you!

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Almost all those things haven't been proven true or accepted by most experts. Stop lying.
    Asking questions is fine to inform yourself. Asking questions to purposely push a narrative isn't

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Unless it's government or corporations doing the lying, then it's okay.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Still not wrong.

    knoland,

    To say, as in to state as fact, yes.

    To question, no.

    There's a wide gap between "covid originated in a lab" and "covid could have originated in a lab".

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    It's the same gap as Covid COULD have come from nature vs Covid DID come from nature, which is what the media and Fauci were saying.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    Yet the then director of the CDC was forcibly sidelined simply for asking that they investigate. Interesting take.

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    Source?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,
    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    Is that your source for "Forced to resign"?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    That article is based on a panel where evidence was presented, you can simply just watch the panel yourself, although it's pretty long.

    CarlsIII,

    Can you at least let us know the time stamp of where they force him to resign?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    You found the panel and are unwilling to watch it? Don't be lazy lol.

    CarlsIII,

    I don’t trust you that the video contains the content you claim it does. apparently you have this information, but are refusing to share it with people, so how lazy are you?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    He details around the 1:10 minute mark about how he was sidelined (which I incorrectly interpreted to mean he had been forced to resign) for suggesting that both lab leak and natural origin theories should be investigated. Apparently he was simply left out of the discussion entirely after sharing his position, and resigned later, but I haven't actually been able to find any details or the exact reasoning behind his exit from the CDC.

    That being said, him being sidelined is, in my opinion, still extremely concerning. It's pretty clear to me that him disagreeing with Fauci lead to him being pushed out, but there doesn't seem to be any info anywhere on the subject.

    CarlsIII,

    (which I incorrectly interpreted to mean he had been forced to resign)

    You do realize that’s why most people are arguing with you, right? Because you made a false claim that you couldn’t back up while repeatedly claiming you've proven it to be true by posting a link to an article that doesn’t say what you claim it says (which is the very definition of “unscientific”)?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Agreed. I misinterpreted it, but my main points still stand.

    CarlsIII,

    What exactly was your main point then, if not that he was forced to resign? Everything else you posted seems to be in service of defending that claim.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    My main point was that the Whitehouse shouldn't be allowed to censor people (via the FBI) by calling certain information "misinformation" (especially when they had little to no evidence to support their own narrative) by forcing social media platforms to carry out said cencorship (or really in any way in all honesty).

    The current administration came up with a narrative, and stifled any and all debate, including that of the then CDC director who they subsequently sidelined simply for saying we should investigate both possibilities on the origins of the virus.

    CarlsIII,

    And you’re still wrong! There is no evidence that the government forced social media companies to do anything, and the article you provided doesn’t even make the claim that anyone was forced to do anything.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I didn't say that article claimed that. This information is already known, and it's why there is a case in the first place. The Twitter files came out and corroborated that it had been going on for quite a while.

    CarlsIII,

    So you don’t have any source for your claim that social media companies were literally forced to take actions directed by the government?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Let me get that for you, but yes I do.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,
    barf,

    Who gives a shit, frankly. The first amendment is the first amendment, science or anti-science or anything in between. Whether or not I agree with anything in your comment.

    czech, (edited )

    Do you understand why you can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater? Do you think that's a violation of your first amendment rights?

    barf,

    No, actually, I don’t. Because you can. That’s not even the actual quote.

    czech,

    Sorry I didn't flesh it out.. Falsely yelling "fire" is not inherently illegal unless someone gets injured as a result. Millions of people died due to vaccine misinformation spread on social media.

    barf,

    At least millions, and that’s just COVID!

    But the speech is still legal and protected. Maybe there should be more restrictions about these things, but that’s a case that should be argued in public and implemented the official way. Personally I think not, and instead we should be focusing on restricting the things that allow those ridiculous people making false claims to find the other ridiculous people that believe them.

    Just imagine what Trump could have done during the worst of COVID with the power to restrict speech deemed untrue in the dark and without oversight.

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    This is extremely good news for foreign state-run disinformation farms, or domestic terrorists who want to spread disinformation or panic. "Go for it".

    CmdrShepard,

    Do you extend the same to lies or threats? If I claimed your computer is full of CP would you still support me?

    I personally think this is a brain-dead approach akin to the many “zero tolerance” laws that only exist to remove thought from the equation. “Yes Billy, you may not have actually thrown any punches but we’re suspending you from school for getting beat up by that bully because you were a participant in the fight.”

    barf,

    It’s brain dead to respect the law? Are you drawing a line between what I said and some idea of unlimited free speech? If so, that’s not my stance.

    Edit: also half the things you said would be illegal, so no I wouldn’t support you

    CmdrShepard,

    The first amendment is the first amendment, science or anti-science or anything in between. Whether or not I agree with anything in your comment.

    What else is there to take from this? Sounds like the typical “unlimited free speech” argument that we’ve all heard before.

    If you want to argue about the law, the legality of this action has yet to be determined, so I’m assuming you must be in support of it, no? What is your stance if you think there’s confusion on my part about what that may be.

    Lies and threats may be illegal but they violate the idea of free speech, so why do you support these restrictions on the first amendment and not others?

    barf,

    Lies and threats may be illegal but they violate the idea of free speech, so why do you support these restrictions on the first amendment and not others?

    Because they’re laws the we have as a society agreed upon and put into place. Pretty simple stuff. I do not understand how thinking that the law should be followed is such a wild idea.

    If we want vaccine misinformation to be illegal, we should pass a law. Otherwise, the first amendment stands. What’s so weird about that?

    iAmTheTot,
    iAmTheTot avatar

    is now begrudgingly accepted by the experts.

    Gonna need a source on that one champ.

    orcrist,

    Nobody is "begrudgingly" accepting scientific results. But you want to tell that story, right? You're looking for an "us vs. them" situation, but that's not how science works.

    Also, I think some of your facts are not actually facts.

    Finally, a question itself is not "anti-science". How could it be? However, if you're using a question as a smokescreen to confuse readers or viewers to push your selfish political agenda, that would be shady politics, and it would have nothing to do with science at all.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    There were many scientists that were saying we should investigate the lab origin. They were all silenced, including the CDC director at the time.

    CarlsIII,

    How were they silenced? Are they in jail or something?

    CmdrShepard,

    And even if this is true, what does investigating a lab leak do to stop the spread of a virus actively working its way through the population?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I'm not worried about that question, I'm worried about the ability of government to silence people simply for disagreeing with them.

    CmdrShepard,

    What simple disagreement are you referring to exactly? Everything you’ve mentioned has been pretty clear disinformation that lead to people dying not simple disagreements.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Investigating where the virus originated was the main one I've been discussing.

    CmdrShepard,

    Yeah okay, bud. You’re obviously trying to spread your own disinformation now as if we can’t see a written record of your comments elsewhere in this post.

    CarlsIII,

    If people making the lab leak claim were silenced, why the hell can I not stop hearing about it?!

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Are you claiming that the FBI didn't force social media platforms to censor information that it had deemed misinformation?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Read the OP. They were censored on social media and elsewhere.

    Ragnell,
    Ragnell avatar

    I just want to point out that your very first question is irrelevant to the rest. Whereever it originated, we needed to stop the spread but propagandists got hold of people through paranoia and pushed them to behave in ways that INCREASED the spread, and it started with stuff like the first question.

    HopingForBetter,

    Exactly! We're just asking questions! Like how many shots does it take to induce fetal-alcohol syndrom? Because your mom DEFINITELY knows the answer. And when will these WOKE folks (hehe, rhyme time) stop being so persistant with their knowledge and science and let us just say the stupid shit we think of on the spot? Also, why are you allowed to speak if there is a god? The world may never know, but penis. (( | )) B:::::::::D---~~~ (GET IT? BUTT PENIS!) i'M jUsT aSkInG QuEsTiOnS!

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    Was it antiscience to say covid originated in a lab in China?

    Yes. It would be accurate to say that it is possible that the Covid originated in a lab in China, but the evidence is mixed and it is certainly not provided.

    Was it antiscience to say 2 weeks to flatten the curve was BS?

    No idea, because I don't know who you claimed to say it, when they said it or in which county

    Was it antiscience to say cloth masks were ineffective?

    Yes - because it's much too simplistic. Depending on the design of the mask, the material and how it was warn cloth masks certainly had an effect on reducing infection - in particular infected mask wearers are less likely to infect others

    Was it antiscience to question the long term efficacy of a drug that was not studied for the long term?

    No - and questions about long-term efficacy were front and centre of studies into how long (for example) vaccines shots lasted. The point was that even short - term efficacy was pretty useful.

    Was it antiscience to question the long term side effects of a drug that was not studied for the long term?

    No. It's absolutely scientific to ask questions about it. It is is anti-science tio make stuff up about probable long-term effects when the mechanism of the drug are pretty well understood.

    At one point or another every one of those questions was considered antiscience and is now begrudgingly accepted by the experts.

    Some of them are "anti-science", some aren't. I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make, other than "Experts bad"

    czech,

    Was it antiscience to say covid originated in a lab in China?

    ok, sure.

    Was it antiscience to say 2 weeks to flatten the curve was BS?

    That was contingent on half the population not making it their identity to spread disease.

    Was it antiscience to say cloth masks were ineffective?

    Yes, it's been proven time and time again that cloth masks reduce transmission and severity.

    Was it antiscience to question the long term efficacy of a drug that was not studied for the long term?

    Yes, it is antiscience for laymen to question things they don't understand at all.

    Was it antiscience to question the long term side effects of a drug that was not studied for the long term?

    Same.

    Started out pretty good though!

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Saying those things before having any data to back them up was indeed anti-science.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    But somehow the government and corporations doing so is okay?

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    That was the data we had at the time, yes. New data can mean new stances, and that's okay. But notice the order of operations there; new data, then new stance. Not the other way around.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    They had data showing otherwise. They were silenced. I'll keep bringing this up, but the director of the CDC at the time said there was significant evidence to investigate the lab leak theory, but was forcibly sidelined. They seem to have gotten your model backwards. This wasn't the only time it happened, but people will keep crying "sources" since they know it's now difficult to find information that was removed from journal sites, etc.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Uh, sources? Specifically about the forced resignation.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,
    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    You didn't read that article, did you? It doesn't support your stance.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    The CDC director wasn't forcibly sidelined because he suggested that COVID-19 could have come from a lab?

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Not according to your link, no.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    You've got to be kidding:

    "Dr Redfield, who led the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention when the outbreak began in 2020, was an early proponent of the lab leak theory.

    He told the House select subcommittee, formed by the new Republican majority in the US House of Representatives, it was "not scientifically plausible" to him that the virus had natural origins.

    He claimed he was "sidelined" at the beginning of the pandemic and excluded from meetings as his views were not in line with other major scientists like Dr Fauci, the de-facto face of the US pandemic response."

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    A claim is not evidence.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    There was no evidence to rule out it either, but they did it anyway.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    My dude, what are you doing here?

    There is no evidence to support your stance that this dude was sidelined because of his views. All you have is his claim that they sidelined him for his views.

    This appears to be another conspiracy theory.

    Focus, man.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    He said it himself. There was a whole panel about it which you can watch for yourself where evidence was presented. Are you suggesting he was lying?

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Someone has to be, since we have conflicting claims.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Please repeat your claim, just so we're clear.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    I am not making a claim. How are you so confused?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    If you're making no claim, then how are we disagreeing?

    Edit: This suggests some sort of claim you are making:
    "Someone has to be, since we have conflicting claims."

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Please for the sake of my sanity go read the link you provided. It will clear up your befuddlement.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • effingjoe, (edited )
    effingjoe avatar

    No it is not. Just read the damn link you provided. FFS

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    If you're going to speak to me that way I will not be responding. You've refused to read the story yourself, and cannot be swayed from your opinion. You argue in bad faith, and simply aren't following logic with your responses. I hope you have a good day.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    I did read it that's why I know you haven't.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Have a good one friend. "It's easier to mislead someone than it is to show them they've been mislead." If you really believe the director of the CDC was a crackpot conspiracy theorist, then we have no further discussion.

    Advanced_Visual,
    Advanced_Visual avatar

    You couldn't know they didn't have data if they didn't have the ability to present it. Once censored, it's impossible to tell what media is, that's the point of censorship.
    You can't know if what was censored was false information, if you don't have the data on what was said.

    Questioning is the heart and soul of science. Doubting included.

    To censor doubt is a demand for agreement, and an intimidation of dissent.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    People posting pro horse-medicine posts on social media aren't ever going to be doing anything close to "science".

    And this romantic concept of "questioning is the heart and soul of science" is just a banal platitude. Rigorous testing and record keeping is the heart and soul of science. Latching on to conspiracy theories is not even tangentially related to science.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    You've got to do your homework. This has already been proven to be a false narrative set up by MSNBC and CNN (and their subsidiaries). You're behind. Ivermectin has been prescribed to humans for decades.

    LifeInOregon,
    LifeInOregon avatar

    But not for coronaviruses. For parasites. And not in the doses that are intended for animals, but for humans. And not purchased from a farm supply store, but through a pharmacy.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    That's not what I said though. They spread a lie by saying it was only for horses, and were never silenced or corrected. They were allowed to lie. "Rules for thee, but not rules for me."

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Some people were actually buying the horse variant of it...

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I'd like a verified source showing this was actually occurring at any sort of large scale. Assuming you have it, does that make it okay to suggest Ivermectin (the drug) is only for horses like the media did? Is lying okay when it's done to save lives? I'm just curious.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar
    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    That story uses only anecdotal, non-scientifically recorded data. 50 - 60 calls a day simply to ask about it, and one or two cases of people actually using it. This same story claims people were drinking hand sanitizer, I guess we need to start lying about that as well.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    "Poison centers are still responding to events related to COVID-19," said Julie Weber, president of the American Association of Poison Control Centers and director of the Missouri Poison Center. "On average, we are getting over 40 to 50 calls per day in addition to what we would normally get pre-pandemic."

    Unless you are saying the president of Missouri's Poison Center is lying, then this is still substantive.

    And more than what you have provided so far. Can't claim it is lie either without evidence.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    They literally don't provide any data. It could be one call and they'd say they're "still responding."

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Still substantive.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    They don't even say the 50-60 calls they are getting are just for Ivermectin, just that they're related to COVID. Why do you think they worded it that way, to be misleading maybe?

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    You didn't read the article did you?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    You're being extremely disrespectful. I did in fact read the article, but it's clearly a biased article with no actual measured data.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    No you didn’t. It talks about it.

    Making another claim about bias won’t help you. And still leaves the rest of what I said.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I'll not be discussing with you further. Why would I? You are literally just repeating that I didn't read the article, and have made no claims against what I said. I think we should censor YOU since I know I read it but you keep claiming I didn't, which could be classified as misinformation.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Then you are admitting you are wrong and aren’t acting in good faith. The literal next section of that article mentions it.

    Just repeating yourself won’t make you right. And above all else, you haven’t proven anything today.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Firstly, you saying I'm admitting that I'm wrong is arguing in bad faith by definition, as I never said that. Quote the part of the article you're talking about specifically, and I'll refute that, that way I'll be forced to read it. Also, ciritizing me for repeating myself is ironic considering you keep repeating yourself.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Still not wrong

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    You suspiciously left out all the context of the discussion. I can only imagine why you'd do this. Haha

    Horse dewormer was mentioned because that's what the maga cultists were using, because (sane) doctors wouldn't prescribe it to humans for a coronavirus.

    You agree that Ivermectin isn't for coronavirus, right? Right?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    There has been little to no research allowed that might prove otherwise, but some countries (that were denied access to the vaccine for profit reasons) seemed to have great success using it. That being said, calling it a horse dewormer within context is literally just lying. I'm actually giving them a chance when I leave out said context.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Little to no research? Did you bother looking? I found quite a few on Google scholar. Here's one: https://www.kumc.edu/about/news/news-archive/jama-ivermectin-study.html

    Do you mean little to no research that comes to the conclusion that you want?

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    We're not talking about that. You keep trying to change my argument to saying that the virus leaked from a lab; I'm not supporting that. I'm saying the DIRECTOR OF THE CDC was sidelined because he believed there was enough evidence not to rule it out, which is what the narrative was at the time and WHY he was sidelined. We may never know, because the research isn't being done.

    effingjoe,
    effingjoe avatar

    Have some self respect.

    There has been little to no research allowed that might prove otherwise, but some countries (that were denied access to the vaccine for profit reasons) seemed to have great success using it.

    The "it" they were using is clearly horse dewormer. Not sidelined CDC directors.

    Also, just putting this out there. You can see who upvotes and downvotes any given comment.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I'm not sure what you're suggesting, Ivermectin could be used as both, but countries that were using it had been prescribing it to humans for quite a while, so I'm not sure where you're getting your information.

    CoCoIchibanCurry,
    CoCoIchibanCurry avatar

    I find that it is often the case that people who say "do your homework/research" (wrt science/news) were the very same students who wouldn't do their homework.

    CmdrShepard,

    People making claims that “injecting bleach will cure COVID,” “COVID is a hoax,” or “the vaccine contains nanobots to control us!” aren’t questioning anything. They’re making claims that are false and dangerous, leading to needless deaths. Quit trying to act like the COVID conspiracy theorists were simply asking questions in good faith rather that intentionally spreading disinformation in order to politicize a virus.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    They're also not breaking any laws by doing so.

    CmdrShepard,

    Well at least you can agree that it’s all disinformation. You’re right it isn’t illegal which is why nobody wound up in jail for spreading it.

    I also see you quickly abandoned your stance that it’s “simply people asking questions” rather than something much more malicious and damaging to society.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I never had that position.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    There was a time I would believe you whole heartedly.

    I despise book bans.

    I see people try to censor other people's very existence.

    I hate China's authoritarian laws.

    I wish to strive to allow as much free speech and liberty reasonably possible.

    Then COVID happened. Misinformation, narrative pushing, and just plain lying. My grandma died from the virus in a hospital not consistently wearing masks or even checking for it in the first place. A hospital wear fox news plays abound and nurses proudly talk about their "knowing" of what actually is happening.

    I have to ask myself, is this worth it?

    I don't think so. A line must be drawn somewhere.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M, (edited )

    This is bullshit. They were calling certain things misinformation before they themselves knew. What gives them authority to do this and who actually decides what is true? At the time many scientists, including the CDC director (who was forcibly sidelined after sharing his position), were saying we should investigate the lab leak theory, and they were all silenced as a result. Scientists were saying that they wouldn't have suggested quarantine (including the UKs top health advisor) as the understaffed medical/health facilities would cause more death than quarantines would save, they were saying that masks had little to no impact on CORONA viruses in the past and peer-reviewed articles suggesting this were literally removed from websites; the list goes on. Meanwhile the MSM was literally spreading misinformation like the Ivermectin story or the vaccine stopping spread story. You really have to trust someone quite a bit to just go along with this while all your freedoms are diminishing.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    That's a whole lot of claims with little to no sources backing them up.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    Which ones specifically? These are all fairly well known at this point. Let me ask, if I provide them, do you think it would influence you in any way?

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    All of them. If it's the truth I will see it.

    But be warned. No tabloid or backwater new articles. Actual studies and statements.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I'll do that once I get to a computer. I forsee my effort being for nothing though.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Put up or shut up.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    This comment was unnecessary. There's no need to be disrespectful, I'll be home in about 10 hours.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    If you keep wasting everyone’s time prepare for more of it.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    How am I wasting anyone's time? They're free to look up my claims at any time. Here's a tidbit if you're so inconvenienced:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/graisondangor/2021/09/19/cdcs-six-foot-social-distancing-rule-was-arbitrary-says-former-fda-commissioner

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    Many people assume the rule traces to “some old studies” on the flu, which found droplets won’t travel further than six feet, Gottlieb said—though research has since shown that Covid-19 can be spread through aerosols, which have the potential to travel many times further than droplets.

    You didn't claim otherwise to social distancing. And this has to do with further research giving us better understanding.

    Especially with people knew with confidence at the time. With everything being hectic.

    You are still wasting my and everyone's TIME.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I said that our government (US if that wasn't clear) wasn't suggesting solutions to the pandemic solely based on science in many cases. The social distancing mandate was an example of that. Criticism of this (the social distancing/masking solutions, etc.) was silenced and categorized as misinformation. So yes, I did say exactly that here:

    "They were calling certain things misinformation before they themselves knew. What gives them authority to do this and who actually decides what is true?"

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    This is bullshit. They were calling certain things misinformation before they themselves knew. What gives them authority to do this and who actually decides what is true? At the time many scientists, including the CDC director (who was forced to resign), were saying we should investigate the lab leak theory, and they were all silenced as a result. Scientists were saying that they wouldn't have suggested quarantine (including the UKs top health advisor) as the understaffed medical/health facilities would cause more death than quarantines would save, they were saying that masks had little to no impact on CORONA viruses in the past and peer-reviewed articles suggesting this were literally removed from websites; the list goes on. Meanwhile the MSM was literally spreading misinformation like the Ivermectin story or the vaccine stopping spread story. You really have to trust someone quite a bit to just go along with this while all your freedoms are diminishing.

    I said that our government (US if that wasn't clear) wasn't suggesting solutions to the pandemic solely based on science in many cases.

    No you didn't. Liar

    And you haven't proven or shown that "They were calling certain things misinformation before they themselves knew."

    Whoever "they" are.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I literally copied and pasted my own comment; I don't understand where the confusion is coming from. "They" are the "Whitehouse" (via the FBI) that literally are what the trial of the post on which we're having this discussion were accused of; so yes, that's exactly what I said. They (the FBI/"Whitehouse") are on trial for influencing what should be sensored on social media as well as what information could be released during document requests to journalists. This included (based on the Twitter files) comments criticizing measures mandated by the government, including masking and social distancing requirements along with quarantine mandates.

    My first article simply gave an example of one part of the mandates that weren't based on science with more stories to come once I can use an actual PC. It wasn't supposed to be my be-all-end-all source for everything I posited.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    I copied what you said. You claimed otherwise and said something different before, even if you repasted your comment.

    Now you are on to ANOTHER claim about the FBI censoring after specifying "they".

    Still no proof or good sources from you.

    WASTING TIME

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    You call it wasting time, I call it protecting our freedom of speech, including yours. If you can't follow what I'm saying I'm sure other people can and will. The article on the OP is literally accusing the FBI under Biden of doing these things, and have given evidence showing as much, so I didn't feel the need to give evidence of this.

    snipgan,
    snipgan avatar

    You don't care about anything beyond pushing your own narrative.

    You keep jumping around to different claims, with no sources backing them up for what you said.

    You claim to be protecting freedom of speech, but you aren't. You are only protecting bad faith actors, bots, and liars.

    The line has to be drawn somewhere, and when it come to the health and safety of the public somethings have to take priority. Necessary things from what I have seen.

    And this case is being appealed.

    Biden admin’s likely appeal
    Assuming the Biden administration appeals Doughty's ruling on the preliminary injunction, the government would likely make arguments similar to what it wrote in a May 2023 filing. There is a high legal bar for ruling that "significant encouragement" would "convert private conduct into state action," the administration argued.

    "Since 2017, Executive Branch agencies and officials have promoted authoritative information or expressed concerns with the spread of misinformation," but "consistently recognized social media companies' authority over their platforms," Department of Justice lawyers wrote.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    I disagree, and that should be okay. I shouldn't be censored for doing so. I shouldn't be put on a list of concerning individuals like the FBI has been proven to be doing as a result of the Twitter files. Seriously if you'd just read up on it your eyes would be opened. Our current (and past) leadership along with corporate elites are trying to scare you from "bad actors" in order that you give up your freedom. This allows them to stay in power.

    I'm not "jumping around" on any claims I have made. All claims I have made are verifiable, and have followed logically throughout this discussion. I have backed up some of them with sources (time permitting) which you of course have disputed. If you take issue with any of my claims, be specific. I'm happy to provide sources when I have the time.

    Also, of course they're going to appeal. Why would they give up on being able to censor us now?

    snipgan, (edited )
    snipgan avatar

    You just keep making claims. With no proof or evidence.

    You just made another one about using “bad actors” to give up on freedom, then have the gall to say you aren’t jumping around.

    Haven’t proven anything. Haven’t shown your way to be right. Haven’t shown any consistency.

    Your rambling at this point.

    STOP WASTING TIME

    Edit: so much for getting me a bunch of sources after 10 hours to "get to my computer"

    CmdrShepard,

    Not even enough info to know who “they” or “them” are when referenced in their comment.

    C4RP3_N0CT3M,

    If you'd look at the article in the OP you'd see I'm talking about the Whitehouse via the FBI.

    djgb,

    Was it antiscience to say covid originated in a lab in China?
    YES, there was little evidence AND there still isn't conclusive evidence that it was. They just used it as a reason to be racist toward Asian (and it did provably increase hate crime toward Asian people).

    Was it antiscience to say 2 weeks to flatten the curve was BS?
    YES, if people would have actually isolated, we would have had far fewer cases shortly after.

    Was it antiscience to say cloth masks were ineffective?
    YES, they are still effective and far better than not wearing a mask at all.

    Was it antiscience to question the long term efficacy/long term side effects (I'm combining 2 questions here) of a drug that was not studied for the long term?
    YES, the vaccine was not given to people widespread until after thorough testing. It's fact that almost any vaccine side effect will occur within the first few weeks of it being administered. There was also information and testing about the efficacy before it was widely distributed.

    People questioning this stuff were given the answers by scientists, specialists, people with knowledge, and they outright denied the truth of the data. It's one thing to question, it's another thing to yell questions into the void and pretend you don't hear the answers.

    kosure,
    kosure avatar

    Agreed. But I wouldn't say it's overstated; it's misleading. It's largely a quote from the judge, who may be an idiot, but they said what they said. "Trump-appointed judge rules that Biden Administration went too Far in Preventing Medical Misinformation," is wonky but more accurate.

    czech,

    That's fair.

    Jon-H558,

    yeah but it will go to the supreme court and we all know how much they love the current administration.

    OpenStars, (edited ) to technology in Exploring Reddit’s third-party app environment 7 months after the APIcalypse
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    TLDR: not worth reading the article, it’s just a long list of third party apps that are no longer free anymore, totally ignoring matters such as their usage stats and more importantly the content itself that is now flat-out missing from Reddit. Go to any old thread and you’ll see the “this content has been removed by” (whichever of the automated software to remove posts was used in that case) messages.

    Honestly it reads like a shill to promote Reddit as in “hey, all that fuss was for nothing - you should totally come back now”. It got fairly obvious even at the start when it said that the protests lasts (edit: lasted) for “weeks” - not the more truthful “months”, not “permanent changes”, but the minimum amount they could halfway reasonably get away with stating.

    I am biased, and this article is far more so, and less forgivably so bc mine is a personal opinion while this is touted as “news”.

    ptz,
    @ptz@dubvee.org avatar

    There’s quite a few mentions of Lemmy/Kbin in the comments, so at least word is spreading.

    OpenStars,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    I mean, only like 3 comments out of ~116 total, but yeah, they were solid mentions I agree.

    Drinvictus,

    Meh. I mean it’s not surprising. A lot of people including open source enthusiasts stuck with reddit despite everything.

    OpenStars,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    Valid, but from a truth-in-reporting standpoint, those protests went on for MONTHS and MONTHS. Which I suppose could technically be reported as “weeks”, but they could also be reported as “femtoseconds” and yet… seems to lose accuracy that way? :-P

    And like, I understand that the title of the article means that it is focusing narrowly on third-party apps not the state of Reddit as a whole, but (1) the scope still includes anything that it does choose to say, e.g. how long those protests lasted, and (2) it does not mention anywhere how e.g. third-party apps compare to the official Reddit app, or what their market share is with respect to one another, which seems the two most relevant questions of all?!

    Continuing on, a third question could be: do people like those apps? From the comments even in the article, it seems not… but without usage stats, even an app used by a single person counts the same as e.g. the former Apollo.

    i.e., How DOES the third-party app market look nowadays, after the protests? After reading this article, I still have no idea whatsoever… All I know is that there is a list of apps, which sounds like a singular detail devoid of any context that Reddit would very much like us to know, rather than anything that I would actually care about knowing in order to get a better picture of the situation as a whole.

    But that’s just my two cents.:-)

    AnonTwo,

    I mean, I remember it being weeks myself.

    But it's not as if things went back to the way they were either. There were definitely effects due to those weeks.

    OpenStars,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    Some subs did not protest at all. Some users even went into subs dedicated to discussing the topic like Reddit Alternatives and anti-protested, and still others went so far as to brigade many small, entirely unrelated niche subs, taking over polls asking the actual MEMBERS of those subs what they wanted to do, making any discussion of the situation held hostage by a toxic barrage of venomous filth, often by accounts that seemed to have been created for just that purpose in mind due to their highly suspicious age. In my own sub, we had to record comments by hand b/c we felt that we could not trust automated polling as a result.:-(

    Some subs shut down for merely a day or two (as mine did). A few more shut down for a little longer - measured in days to weeks.

    But several subs, including some of the top ones on the entire site, shut down for MONTHS. And some even shut down permanently, only to have their decisions overturned by Reddit who sent in scabs to open them back up, months later.

    So… it was a spectrum ofc, and perhaps the subs you were interested in were primarily affected for a couple weeks. But on the whole, the long tail of the protests lasted much longer than a mere few days, or even weeks, and the likes of John Olivier pic spam lasted for months.:-)

    AnonTwo,

    It's probably because I generally saw the sub shutdowns as a result of the protest, and not as an ongoing protest. Reddit clearly wasn't in any talks with the mods at that point and vica versa.

    Honestly i'll just go with it being months. I'm basically just arguing semantics at this point.

    Kiloee,

    I only ever really browsed Reddit with Apollo and I monitored the situation somewhat. I feel like the subs that could migrate easier (more techy, more text than pictures) stayed closed the longest or permanently. The ones that can’t really (like those more picture streamy ones as the sfw porn network) were open again fastest from what I remember.

    So depending on interest it could have felt way shorter or longer.

    I am still missing some of the subs I liked, but I don’t expect some of them to actually pop up here.

    Powderhorn,
    @Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

    It’s always good to keep one’s shill detector up on Ars vis-a-vis Reddit given the ownership situation. I’ve so far not seen anything that rises to that level, including here, because of the audience. If you’re on Ars and don’t know what Reddit is, this story isn’t going to be of interest and thus is not going to push you to try using Reddit.

    That said, this story only seems relevant to the minuscule-if-at-all-extant sliver of Ars readers who know what Reddit is and haven’t been using it only because they’ve been waiting to hear what paid apps look like eight months after the whole fiasco started. That’s not a demographic I’ve ever seen represented in the comments.

    MagicShel,

    I’m still protesting. Haven’t been back since. Probably will protest until the sun is cold and black.

    jarfil,

    I’ve been back to Reddit a couple times… to make sure the automatically blanked content stays blanked 😶

    OpenStars,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    Very rarely there may be something that you need. Even so, it is becoming increasingly rare to find that knowledge. Spez decided that he owns it now, though some of us here happen to disagree:-).

    Nor do you need a mobile app to use Reddit in any case:-). Anyway I think I am with you - we almost hear more about how Reddit is doing here in the Fediverse than we did back when we were on Reddit:-).

    shnizmuffin,
    @shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol avatar

    totally ignoring matters such as their usage stats

    The author asked multiple devs about these things - they all had the same reply: Can’t talk about it because NDA.

    more importantly the content itself that is now flat-out missing from Reddit. Go to any old thread and you’ll see the “this content has been removed by” (whichever of the automated software to remove posts was used in that case) messages.

    That’s not the stated objective of the article, which was “Exploring Reddit’s third-party app environment.”

    Honestly it reads like a shill to promote Reddit as in “hey, all that fuss was for nothing - you should totally come back now”.

    No, it doesn’t. You don’t call it an “APIcalypse” if you’re shilling for Reddit. You don’t pull out the most critical quote right at the top if you want to shill for Reddit. (“I don’t believe Reddit’s leadership… cares about developers anymore.”) You don’t mention Lemmy, or Threads, or Tildes if you’re shilling for Reddit.

    You admit that you’re biased; good, thank you. This article isn’t.

    OpenStars,
    @OpenStars@startrek.website avatar

    It is possible that both are true.

    Veraxus, to technology in Internet providers say the FCC should not investigate broadband prices
    Veraxus avatar

    Criminals say their crimes should not be investigated - full story at 11.

    HubertManne,
    HubertManne avatar

    I mean criminals do know a lot about crime. maybe they are right?

    dojan,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    If you just leave the criminals alone and let them do as they please they’ll regulate themselves. A criminal justice system is just unnecessary and expensive administrative overhead. It stifles the free market.

    HubertManne,
    HubertManne avatar

    exactly. the only reason im robbed for so much is because of the cost the criminals incur because of the justice system. If we let the free market handle it the cost of being robbed will drop to the what the market will bear. Criminals will compete to rob you of less.

    PigsInClover,

    This is why it’s important that we continue to give tax breaks to the criminals and subsidize their operations for specific projects that would help everyone.

    But again, we must make sure to not cause any undue burden on the criminals by making those funds conditional, or regulating how the projects are carried out. Otherwise they will be forced to rob us further, and who could blame them?

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