jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

Can we have a go at translating Enshitiffication into French and German?

Here’s the Wikipedia page about it in English
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

Note “emmerder" in French is obviously NOT correct…

mothninja,
@mothninja@mastodon.world avatar

@jon suggesting 'caccaficazione' for Italian

PGLux,

@jon

I'd go for

  • Merdification / Verscheissizierung (noun)

  • Merdifier /
    Verscheissizieren
    (verb)

nblr,
@nblr@chaos.social avatar

@PGLux @jon A surprising number of words in that neighborhood are already taken:
e.g. verscheissern (to pull someones leg), or verkacken (to fail at something)
as „shit“ is moderately well known, shitifizierung should work well.
(I do like merdifier/merdification tho)

cweickhmann,
@cweickhmann@qoto.org avatar

@jon I believe the best word in German is the time-honoured "Verfall". Like in "Buddenbrooks: Verfall einer Familie". Maybe a 2023 Thomas Mann would've written about "Twitter: Verfall eines sozialen Netzwerks"?

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@cweickhmann it’s not wrong, but it doesn't fully cover it either

cweickhmann,
@cweickhmann@qoto.org avatar

@jon I know what you mean. It's the active act. In a way 'making it decay'. Well, I guess there is a 45 letter word for it... let me think.

kazephil,

@jon
Merdification already seems to have some traction in French, but maybe "enpourrissement" (make rotten) could also work.

(Someone already noted pourrissement. Adding an "en" prefix to coin a word that suggest deliberately causing rot doesn't seem too far fetched.)

sista_ray,
@sista_ray@bildung.social avatar
sbstgt,

@jon

"Verschlimmscheißerung" has been proposed by Claudia. I consider it to be a very good translation.

https://darmstadt.social/@claudi/111056985754543005

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@sbstgt I don’t, because there is not even an attempt at Verbesserung in it. It's not right, sorry.

sbstgt,

@jon Ähm, I believe there is a misunderstanding. Claudia proposed "Verschlimm-scheißerung" (=worsification-shitification).

It sounds similar, but is different to "Verschlimm-Besserung".

The difference is in the second part of the word. Or am I misunderstanding something completely?

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@sbstgt ah I’d missed that toot. That strikes me as a doubling of the same sentiment though, or not?

sbstgt,

@jon Yes. It basically saying "making it worse AND making it shit"

Which is the concept of enshitification in a nutshell: making a service worse for both sides (private users and commercial users).

Also, it sounds similar to Verschlimmbesserung, but makes it clear that it is even worse than that.

shipscrewunscrewer,

@jon I would go for Verscheißerung

urrlich,

@jon Since the prefix en- implies that the platform is being enclosed in shit as it's being enshittified, "Umscheißung" seems appropriate. Though that implies that there is something non-shitty inside the shit. If we don't make this assumption, "Durchscheißung" could be even better. It would imply that the platform is being pervaded or soaked in shit, which I think describes the phenomenon quite accurately.

Znexhf_Svax,

@jon Subtimierung

20002ist,
@20002ist@thepit.social avatar

@jon As long as we’re at it, someone less lazy than I should correct the wiki’s incorrect claim that the term was coined in 2023. It goes back at least to Nov. 2022–see https://web.archive.org/web/20230326210043/https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/28/enshittification/ —and, I suspect, earlier than that.

notsoloud,
@notsoloud@expressional.social avatar

@jon
Dansk: Shittificering

f09fa681,
@f09fa681@digitalcourage.social avatar

@jon Dafür haben wir doch schon lange eine etablierte wunderschöne Umschreibung: "Kannste so machen, is dann halt kacke."

(Leider wohl zu generalisiert. 🙃)

elduvelle,
@elduvelle@neuromatch.social avatar

@jon pourrissement (in Fr) seems a good equivalent, if not a direct translation? It means “getting rotten”

47363,
@47363@mastodon.social avatar

@jon

It's not the same but I'll mention it anyway: das Versiffen.

https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/versiffen

HaraldKi,
@HaraldKi@nrw.social avatar

@jon Vermüllung Don‘t try word by word translation or you end up with similar nonsense as „eine Nachricht teilen“ which is nonsensical but now in common use.

itsmealexander,
@itsmealexander@mastodon.social avatar

@jon

'Beschissenheitszunahme'

as in

Durch die stetige Beschissenheitszunahme von Google Maps nähert sich die App der vollumfänglichen Beschissenheit an.

ianp5a,
@ianp5a@mastodon.cloud avatar

@jon
The Turd Reich.

(this post is just to point out a linguistic fluke for this context)

smveerman,
@smveerman@zug.network avatar

@jon I have seen the German term “Verschlimmbesserung” quite a lot.

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@smveerman it's not the same.

ook,
@ook@piaille.fr avatar

@jon Emmerdouament?

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

Entscheissifizierung?
Entschissifizierung?

Emmerdification?

jmovs,
@jmovs@mastodon.social avatar

@jon Verwahrlosung? Verschlimmerung? Ent doesn‘t work because ent would mean „de“ as in „deshittitication“

But my current favourite maybe is „Zerschiss“ or „zunehmender Zerschiss“

Marrekoo,
@Marrekoo@urbanists.social avatar

@jon Verscheißung.

timo,
@timo@hetzel.net avatar

@jon Verschlimmbesserung

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@timo not the same by any means

elba013,
@elba013@muenchen.social avatar

@jon Im deutschen müsste es eigentlich die Vorsilbe "Vor-" bekommen. Leider ist "Verscheissern" aber schon anderweitig besetzt.

Zekovski,
@Zekovski@pouet.chapril.org avatar

@jon Je crois que c'est @ploum qui avait proposé "merdification" ?

cliff1976,

@jon "Ent" as a Geman prefix definitely seems wrong to me - it usually implies "de-", so that sounds like the opposite of what you want.

If we're making up words, how about "Beschissenisierung"?

I think that would carry the meaning of "enshittification" nicely.

PGLux,

@jon

Ent in German has a depriving aspect.

Em in French has a attributive aspect, rather than a substantial aspect.
(emmerder = bring shit to)

markhburton,
@markhburton@mstdn.social avatar

@jon
DeepL has afew options suggesting cognates of the term could already be in use in other languages.
See https://www.deepl.com/translator-mobile#en/fr/Enshittification%0A

Island_Martha,
@Island_Martha@epicure.social avatar

@jon
Clusterfuck?

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar
iinavpov,
@iinavpov@mastodon.online avatar

@jon
Emmerdifier is what I've been using.

De une "emmerde".

Merdifiquer works work also, de "merdique". Privatise closer to the original meaning.

deach,

@jon for Dutch: verschijting?

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

Scheißifizierung

and

Merdification

seem to be the best options contributed so far.

uwesinha,
@uwesinha@toot.berlin avatar

@jon Beschissenmachung?

andrej,
@andrej@trees.social avatar

@jon There is an old word in German: Verschlimmbesserung.

Making it worse by trying to make it better.

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar

@andrej yes and it is not correct here. There is no effort to even try to make it better in Enshittiffcation. So Verschlimmbesserung is definitely not the correct word for it in German, sorry.

greenback,
@greenback@det.social avatar

@jon These sound like fine options. Although I don't mind using the English word in German. Germans generally agree that English words generally sound cooler, so there's that as well

fheinderyckx,
@fheinderyckx@mastodon.social avatar

@jon
In French, I'm not sure you should stick to the “shit” root, but rather that of decay. You may then consider existing words (if you're not absolutely determined to coin a neologism) to form “déliquescence numérique” or “atrophie des plateformes.” (Granted: doesn't have the zing of “Enshittification.”)

SherlockHans,
@SherlockHans@mastodon.social avatar

@jon Shittyfizierung – still understandable for all (“shit” is a normal thing to say and at least my bubble uses the term “shitty” regularly) and it keeps the link to the original.

stk,
@stk@chaos.social avatar

@jon would need primary sources in German, e.g. in news articles

jon,
@jon@gruene.social avatar
stk,
@stk@chaos.social avatar

@jon not enough by a long way. Notability requirements are far more strict in dewiki as opposed to enwiki

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