And really the sheer absurdity of European Sleeper
Here are two determined guys. They lease a freight locomotive, 2 ancient sleeping cars (at least with air con), 6 couchettes without air con (also old) and 2 seating carriages
And they manage to run a Berlin-Brussels night train, something that others - like DB, NS or SNCB - could much more easily do with their financial means BUT REFUSE TO EVEN TRY
@Mina Let me present to you: SNCF. If you think DB are assholes, then SNCF take it to a whole new level... (sure, multiple wrongs don't make a right, but still. And DB just sold some class 101 electric locomotives to rivals, and has sold class 155 and 143 electrics too - they're not always evil. Just sometimes)
@jwildeboer@Gargron Well it's not quite that easy. But in principle, yes, you can. Tell me where and when you want to run one and I will tell you how 🙂
@wmd@jwildeboer@Gargron That's so slow you'd need 2 trains for that, because I am not sure you can do it in less than 3 days. But Euro Express could lease you some carriages. You'd need a Vectron locomotive that'd get you AMS-Villach, and another one Villach-Zagreb. Then a TRAXX Zagreb-Nis. Then something else as far as Idomeni. And then a Greek class 120 from there to Athens. Simple 🙂
@wmd@jwildeboer@Gargron Yes. And given the number of countries you'd cross it'd be hellish. And such a train would inevitably rack up massive delays. Look at the Optima Express.
@Gargron@jon I don't think that it's terribly difficult to charter a train - https://www.trainhire.co.uk/ - it's being allowed to sell tickets to the public in competition with official / franchised services that might be more of a problem?
@TimWardCam@Gargron Right, that's the crux of it. A train for a tour of some sort, where timetables and ticketing don't matter too much, is easy to organise. Getting yourself a workable path, tickets sold, carriages maintained etc. is where it gets complex...
@jon years ago my wife and I caught the overnight sleeper from Lucerne to Florence. I’m 6’3” and continually banged my head in the top bunk. I eventually got to sleep on the narrow bed. In the morning, the Italian train guard slid a latte through your door. A quick passport check and you wake up in Florence.
@jon
I remember we traveled by night train from Berlin to Perpignan in South France - 30 years ago! That was great.
20 years ago: i traveled from Basel/Switzerland to Berlin over night.
The trains had comfortable beds and seats.
Some weeks ago: i chose the ICE from Munich to Berlin via Stuttgart for not to change the train over night. Horrible idea: the seats are so uncomfortable i could hardly sleep.
So it already worked but seems it was no longer supported by Bahn and/or politicians.
@donaldball@plexus for them something like this is too niche. But a decent rail company (like ÖBB does!) ought to see that services like this are important for the rail system as a whole.
@jon Just not sure if there are any sleeping / couchette cars left at the market. Shouldn't be an issue for the large ones but will hinder the small ones
It’s really a shame that rail services are so disjointed and expensive. I don’t have time constraints and hate flying. But trans-border European services are a pain. Eg. I made a seat reservation online Berlin to Gdansk. There was no option to have it sent as a QR code. I could not collect it from a machine in Berlin and the ticket office could not find it in the DB system. I had to buy it again. They didn’t charge me (thank you DB) but the experience was suboptimal. One could easily get stranded and had a travel plan ruined.
@quixoticgeek@jon that will happen, and then after a few years, they'll shut down the service. Classic big corp behaviour. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
@jon The fact that this is even remotely possible blows my mind, as an American.
Our rail system is governed by laws going back 150 years. There are generally not separate freight and passenger rails outside major cities. The rail companies own the tracks and nearly all governance of them as individual monopolies. It takes literally years of effort for even AMTRAK to get permission for scheduled passenger train routes.
The idea that some guy can lease and run a train is unthinkable here.
@jon if it is basic and cheap people are of course loving it. Some chance of some sleep and afordable - awesome. I got woken up by the bundespolizei even in the nightjet.
@jon As a German, there's little I see that I can do about it besides not voting for rightwing parties. Most border crossings will involve going into germany. I guess Eu sleeper is cheaper than some other, beeing basic? Or can they charge whatever as there is no competition?
When I was young, some 50 years ago, the whole family of four went on holiday from Holland to Italy using a sleeper train. (At that time there still was a large network of night trains in Europe.) We never complained about the lack of showers, dining cars or washing facilities. We brought our own food with us. It was just part of the adventure. Or just normal travel conditions. We didn't suffer… 🙂
BTW When I travel economy class on an airplane, I cannot shower either.
@reinoudk@jon well planes are out of the question. I have been traveling on ÖBB's NightJets. They have showers or bathrooms on board. For some even basins in the cabin. The old night trains from Deutsche Bahn Had a restaurant car. Also the sleeper trains in the UK from Glasgow to London. ÖBB doesn't do restaurant cars in sleeper trains. Some UK based night trains do not have showers, but you can have them at the train station. So I just asked out of general curiosity.
I understand. Well, the best shower experience in a train was in Spain. The Trenhotel trains were really comfortable. But Corona was a good, in fact bad, excuse for the Spanish state Railways to abolish sleeper train all together. Booh for #Renfe.
@jon@prefec2@reinoudk but these same guys Will run a Amsterdam Barcelona sleeper from 2025!
My family went by train to Madrid last summer. At Paris Austerlitz we got on the exact same sleeperwagons as when I went to Granada to learn Spanish. In 1991....
As long as only the Austrian Railways ÖBB commission new carriages, most night trains are somehow a travel into the past. Nostalgia for me. But not all travellers have the same romantic attitude.
If we will travel from Amsterdam to Barcelona v.v. is still written in the stars. The European Commission endorsed this plan, but it are the national railway infrastructure organisations who will have to give the green light.
I often took the ÖBB sleeper from Zurich to Berlin and back.
If you travelled on days with little traffic, you could just pull down the seats in the old coaches and travel laying down for 39€.
Then DB moved in, put in newer wagons with extremely bright lights, without compartments and individual seats where you had to sit totally upright all night.
I hate DB. Their carriages are not much better than RyanAir planes.
@Mina@reinoudk@berndandeweg@prefec2 Sorry, but that's rubbish. ÖBB only started that service in 2016, when DB sold its night train carriages to ÖBB and left the night train business. Yes, seating carriages were at the start ÖBB but are now DB, but this is not DB really muscling in on a market. ÖBB had to persuade them to even join that operation!
@Mina@reinoudk@berndandeweg@prefec2 Sure, the seating cars are. But ÖBB basically pushed SBB and DB into providing the seaters for that service, and DB does not have any any more that have those pull down seats.
@jon@reinoudk@deborahh My experience in that department was so far:
a) the Trenotel trains had showers on the carriage in sleeper cars.
b) DB had them in sleeper cars and ÖBB also have this in some sleeper cars.
c) Caledonian sleeper comes with showers in selected rooms, on carriage or at the destination.
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