(And if you still follow Aral Balkan, you probably don't want to follow me. Cause if you are OK with his antisemitism and Holocaust relativism I wonder where our common base could ever be)
Yeah, same. Funny how anyone whose first contact with you includes some version of, "you probably don't want to follow me" turns out to be the one piece of good advice they ever have for you.
I have been told I am an antisemite recently simply because I pointed out that I am secular and do not believe in "biblical rights to land".
Separation of Church and State is also antisemitism now 😔
So, unfortunately, I am beginning to question when that word is thrown around. Which is a huge shame. Because real racism, both individual and systematic, also exists.
I generally avoid talking about Gaza because I've observed this very thing. Saying anything, anything at all, that could be construed as being against Israel can get you labeled as an anti-semite. It's a label that's thrown around too haphazardly, and it's used to dismiss out of hand many thoughtful concerns or criticisms.
@apgarcia@selzero It's actually illegal to criticize Israel in Germany. Officially, the "German state's reason to exist" is to protect Israel. Not to protect residents of Germany, or even German people, or even Israeli people, but to protect the state of Israel. I think I'm still allowed to talk about the genocide as long as I also say that not all genocides are bad and this one is good.
It's frustrating when all you're trying to say is "I disagree with something Country X is doing" and that somehow gets twisted into "I hate all people of Country X descent". That's not a logical inference.
@selzero@BarryCooke@tante@aral I am really disappointed to find the making of the term being diluted all to hell because people can't distinguish between disagreeing with a Jewish person or with Israel and hating Jewish people generally.
The term has been stretched -deliberately- to include criticism of the State Govt of Israel which is a farcical, nonsensical position for the term to take.
Criticising the actions of a Jewish Individual or Person or Institution is VASTLY distinct from "Hating" Jews, Jewish Culture or Jewishness.
I've been labelled Antisemite many times, including here in the Fedi, for views that have absolutely fuck all to do with hatred of any form, other than for acts of barbarism, inhumanism and now Genocide.
If standing up and being vocal about human oppression and suffering is "Antisemitic" then I'll wear that [metaphorical] fucking T-shirt proudly until the term is amended back to cover solely the ACTUAL anti-Jewish sentiment, of which not one single solitary word has ever been uttered by me nor has a single antisemitic thought ever formed in my head.
So I call upon OP to be absolutely crystal clear about how he's applying the word "antisemitic" in this context because I follow Aral and I've not seen a single scrap of it, in the classic cultural hatred sense, from him.
You are correct. I am aware the term's broadening happened last century. I've edited out the word "now" that suggested this was a more recent phenomenon. I apppreciate your input.
@tante Show me a single post of his that displays any "antisemitism" please. All I've seen from him is opposition to the brutal foreign policy of a national government. Not a single damn word opposing anyone's religion.
it's not anti-Semitism to call out literal genocide. It's not anti-Semitism to indict a nation for taking the same actual steps that Nazi Germany did leading up to the Holocaust.
You don't have the moral high ground you think you do here...
@kroyio@tante It's been written above: the Holocaust is characterized by industrial eradication of Jews. It's obviously not true that "the same" is happening in Gaza. Please stop your Holocaust relativism.
So, just because the Holocaust was a lot bigger, that somehow makes trivializing the slaughter of 30,000+ civilians and the starvation of millions fine and okay?
@tante I do no such thing. What you’re doing here but saying that I do is libellous. But sure, side with the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people if you like and attempt to silence those opposing it by slandering them.
@tante Not able to find a post where @aral "trivializes the industrial eradication of Jews". Can you please point me to a post where he did that, in your opinion?
@katzenberger@tante@aral Me either. I always find it sloppy, or even dodgy, when people who call themselves writers don’t provide citations for their accusatory statements. That should be a simple writerly habit, yet here we are.
@tante@MattMerk@katzenberger
That’s got nothing to do with antisemitism at all. He acknowledges the WW2 genocide and calls what’s happening in Gaza right now also genocide. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.
@waarismijnhoofd@tante@MattMerk@katzenberger I have been following Aral for some time, there is never anything antisemitic in any of his posts. tante is weaponizing antisemitism in an inept, failed attempt to counter outrage about Israel's crimes.
@tante@katzenberger Truth as a rhetorical device is “disgusting?” Okay, so you’re THAT guy. Thanks for making that clear. 👌
My only quibble here with @aral is that the U.S. recruited nazis directly into U.S. military operations AFTER their defeat, so it wasn’t really their ideology that was the problem. And up until Pearl Harbor, the U.S. govt. seemed pretty ok with sitting on the sidelines during what happened to the Jews. 🤷🏻♂️
@tante he sent is 100k+ twitter followers after a trans woman who happened to be my flatmate so I begged him to stop in private and he just continued. And this was just one of the times.
@janl Oh yeah that does sound absolutely like a thing he'd do. He's always right and everyone who disagrees even in aspects is an enemy to fight till the end. Very 15 year old angry dude.
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