Should I join "free speech" alternatives?

snownyte, 16 days ago

It doesn't make you a bad person, but damn does it warp your mind to see so many...politically incorrect and deliberately inflammatory posts that just jump to way too many conclusions.

I've been on SaidIt and Voat, that was more than enough for me to not want to bother taking either of them seriously.

lemmyreader, 19 days ago

I guess lots of people can relate to this on Tw(X)tter. After it was bought by mister X. it went downhill. Still a lot of left leaning people are on it with the idea to fight from within (or because they think “everyone is on it” or “important people are there”. Personally I think it is a lost cause and would leave as soon as possible. Apart from that do not underestimate how you can be influenced if you don’t do fact checking. A person I know told me year ago that they liked to read on a far right forum years (for fun or something) and is now like “yeah, I also think migration is a bit of problem”. Go figure :(

mukt, 19 days ago

Hello! I’ve been searching for a reddit alternative, and yes, I’ve picked Lemmy and Raddle, but here’s the thing. My morbid curiosity is perked up, and a part of me wants to join the “free speech” alternatives, like Saidit, Poal, etc. What’s wrong with me that I want to join toxic places? I mean, yes I’ll find a whole new perspective (albeit wrong), on political topics, but a part of me wants to be the antagonist, and post lefty memes, and music with a left-leaning message (bands from r/rabm) I know that’s like kicking the hornet’s nest, so you don’t need to start in with “that’s a bad idea” I know it is. My main point/question is, is it wrong to join a site with potential hate speech? Does it make someone a bad person?

It’s ok to explore/try everything from a safe distance.

Dendr0, 19 days ago

The "free speech" instances are just cesspools of a different shade. Sticking to any one singular platform, you'll eventually notice them start to slide towards a groupthink/echochamber of sorts, regardless of the focus of the instance.

Easiest way is to just browse multiple instances of different types. At least the unhinged insanity of each side cancels each other out for the most part.

umbrella, 19 days ago (edited 14 days ago)

those things can honestly be posted here on .ml or on instances like hexbear, blahaj and such.

if you want to challenge your and other’s perspectives, you would do better doing so in instances such as lemmy.world or maaybe reddit, you are likely to encounter some pushback but they generally can be talked to. free-speech code-for-fascism sites will just ban you at best. if you actually want to troll them you will probably only have a chance if you organize.

that said if you are feeling masochistic you can go on 4chan, its probably where most of them hang out publicly, and its the rare place where they actually wont ban you for nothing.

TexMexBazooka, 19 days ago

Sounds like a waste of precious time

SteposVenzny, 19 days ago

It doesn’t make you a bad person but it’s not a healthy way to spend your time. It creates a feedback loop of finding things that upset you, ineffectually combating them, getting upset at the lack of positive results, and trying to fix that dissatisfaction by finding more things that upset you to fight against. You’ll think of it as a way to entertain yourself but, on balance, you’re the one getting the most stressed out by it.

If you want to troll the far right, you’re better off trying to do that in spaces where other people can see you doing it because that has an actual possibility of affecting their behavior. Real life, for example.

Fizz, 19 days ago

You can if you want. You’ll certainly find new perspectives however you will be unlikely to get any good discussion. If you go there to antagonize they will simply ban you as they don’t want lefty memes or left leaning messages.

I don’t think being on the same platform as hate speech makes you a bad person. You’re only wasting your time and exposing your self to needless hate and toxicity.

schnurrito, 19 days ago

I am not familiar with the ones you mention. I do however suggest you read this: slatestarcodex.com/…/neutral-vs-conservative-the-…

Especially the part you find if you search for “Voat” on that page.

Lath, 19 days ago

People just don't understand. Because society prohibits exhibitions of hatred, those are most likely to seek out places that do allow it. The desired "freedom" aspect of society-free judgement is why you encounter them more often in these type of forums.
And when you got there to "repress" them, it's seen as the claws of society invading one of the few avenues that allow venting their frustrations.

Think of it like this, everywhere you go there's rules, rules, rules! You're stuck doing a job you don't like to pay bills that keep growing, having to play nice with people you barely get along with 5 to 7 days a week and only an online forum to let you vent off your stress. But then some bozo shows up and yells "no, you can't do that!".
Wouldn't that just make you angry?

This isn't about the correct thing to vent about, it's about being allowed to vent. When you tell someone they're not allowed to do something because it's bad, it usually comes off as taking away their sense of agency, and that just makes them more hateful.

sinewyshadow, 19 days ago

Maybe it’s just my way of thinking, but if someone says “you can’t do that” I usually stop doing that and shut down, because it’s not allowed. I have autism, so that my play a role in it, but my go to response is to just shut down usually and stop doing that thing or avoid it all together.

Lath, 19 days ago

Most people do stop doing that as well. However, a tiny bit of resentment from being disallowed also takes root. More so when they believe it's unjust.
And if they encounter more and more of "can't do this, can't do that", that resentment grows into something ugly.
That ugliness doesn't care if it's right or wrong, it only sees oppression and develops into hatred. Which eventually turns into violence.

It ain't right, but it's how we're built. We usually see in 1st person and can't fathom what it's like to be on the other side.

davel, 18 days ago

Paradox of tolerance

r/TalesFromYourServer: Kicking a Nazi out as soon as they walk in

I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”

And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

And i was like, ohok and he continues.

"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

Lath, 18 days ago

I understand that, I really do. However, what if you change nazi memorabilia with LGBT+ stuff?
Is the bartender still correct in doing so?

Or change the LGBT+ stuff to any kind of recognizable symbols of a certain group. Is it still the paradox of tolerance or is it now the paradox of intolerance?
Note that this isn't something leading. I am asking as a question that I don't know the answer to.

I know that some groups shouldn't be tolerated in a society they want to destroy. But here's the thing, we can't not live with them. If we as a society, destroy or segregate groups of a defining nature, don't we become exactly that which we claim to prevent?
And once this type of action starts, can we be sure it will stop there? Who will be the judge, how will they enforce it and for whom?

Anyway, I understand the tale and it's the bartender's right to do so.

Grandwolf319, 19 days ago

No. Not only that it doesn’t make you a bad person. IMHO, it’s far more effective than being active here.

Your not changing votes here. Sure some may say they won’t vote or they will vote third party. But like 95+% of lemmy is some version of left leaning. It’s basically a forum of people enjoying agreeing with each other (for the pillars, not the specifics). I don’t think there is anything wrong with that but imo your not making the world a better place.

I would go as far as to say this is the biggest problem with polarization today. You can’t solve it without having some communication. Imo right leaning spaces are full of misguided anger that can be used for good.

sinewyshadow, 19 days ago

I think you’re right that the anger is misguided. I also think it stems from trauma, but that’s just me. It’s like the old saying “hurt people hurt people” and right-wingers are a bunch of repressed, hurt people.

wiase, 19 days ago (edited 15 days ago)

I think it is generally a bad idea to support sites that promote hatred and fascist ideas by providing them traffic and content.

maniel, 19 days ago (edited 15 days ago)

Say something wrong about co**unism or any s country practicing it here and you’ll see how free speech works, that’s your only warning, you won’t get an official one, that’s not how moderation works here, no matter what their COC says

anarchoilluminati, 19 days ago

You better keep our Communist COCs out of your fucking mouth.

Nakoichi, 19 days ago

nerd stalin-gun-1stalin-gun-2

CyberSyndicalist, 19 days ago

They are not really “free speech” sites, they are fascist sites. They will use your left wing posts as rhetorical proof of their openness until such a time that your antagonism gains any traction at which point they will promptly censor you as they do not really have any ideals. The game is rigged, post on a fascist site and you will be a tool for fascism.

Lemmy was built explicitly in recognition of this fact for the master’s tool will never dismantle the master’s house.

xigoi, 19 days ago

Since when is Saidit a fascist site?

Nakoichi, 19 days ago

They just explained it to you.

xigoi, 19 days ago

I haven’t seen any of what they said on Saidit.

Nakoichi, 19 days ago (edited 15 days ago)

Took me like 3 seconds to find mask off white supremacists on there.

CW: racism.

saidit.net/…/wealthy_white_louisiana_residents_wi…

CyberSyndicalist, 19 days ago

post-hog

I click on it’s front page and immediately see anti-semitism, racism, more anti-semitism and transphobic and queerphobic hatespeech.

Hmm wonder why you are rushing to it’s defense?

oh what do you know, you’ve previously defended neonazi lemmy instances like explodingheads with whataboutism arguments and have multiple bans for bigotry.

surprised-pika “free speech” absolutists just being nazis yet again

Nakoichi, 19 days ago

lmao owned. Ban this mfer.

Outdoor_Catgirl, 19 days ago

Go into chud spaces and generally be a wrecker. Accuse various factions of being feds/antifa false flag/etc.