Wanting to move out of the US?

Hello, all! Longtime lurker on Reddit and now on Lemmy. I’ve tried looking into getting out of the US as things aren’t looking too great as I’m sure many of you know, but wanted some tips from those of us who have gotten out. Where did you decide to move to, and what were the things you looked at when deciding to move there? How did you go about the process? What are some stories you can tell about the immigration process? Where can I start? How can I realistically make it happen? I hope this isn’t silly to you all, as it matters quite a lot to me and I’m genuinely interested in getting away from here for good. Thank you all for your time!

LongPigFlavor,

r/IWantOut has some pretty good resources, OP.

JWayn596,

Hi! I’m sure you have a lot of feelings about the US and maybe you have a specific situation that’s causing you troubles.

However, I’d recommend looking at other places in the country before looking at other places.

Moving is a huge expense, and if you lurk all the time on reddit or lemmy. You may start thinking that things are terrible, because you become emotionally invested in the outcome of a collective you can’t control.

In terms of other countries, the UK is going through the aftermath of Brexit, Italy is about to elect a controversial figure, France has some questionable anti-encryption policies under it’s belt. Another commenter mentioned Canadas downsides.

Looking at Asian countries like Japan and Korea, they are generally homogenous countries, and it takes much more work as a foreigner to make headway socially, with Japan moreso than Korea, to be fair. Compared to the USA, there is nary a country as diverse.

In the USA, there are many many places that can give you relative peace. Investing in local communities is much healthier than looking at huge national controversies, because usually local problems affect you more directly.

If you have the funds and resources and job security and drive to learn the language, I would say take a look at Switzerland. They’re relatively stable, neutral, and it’s a beautiful place there. I’d say it’s still quite homogenous though.

This isn’t meant to dissuade you from moving, but as someone who went through a period of depression due to the state of the country and it’s affect on my life, and has now found reasons to support the US wholeheartedly despite it’s problems, definitely look at quieter places in the USA, like some beach towns or mountainous towns in New Mexico.

Nalivai,

On one hand there is a looming creep of fascism, disproportionately rasing cost of living, car-centric hellfrastructure, and everlooming threat of medical debt, the concept that is baffling to anyone from any developed country. On the other hand the encryption of your phone is regulated slightly tighter and you need to diy it if you need.
Well, I really don’t know what to choose.

JWayn596,

That’s all it is, a looming creep that’s a very loud minority. The car-centric infrastructure is quite tragic, to be sure. And the cost of healthcare is a problem. But again, there are enough benefits to staying that outweigh the cost of moving.

I don’t know their circumstance. But for me, as someone who was formerly doom and gloom about some of these things. Some things that helped me was getting fit and volunteering.

After that, you could join the national guard, who will allow you to finish your degree, and you’ll immediately have job security.

People complain about the nation as a whole without taking the time to see what’s specifically wrong with their community and doing their part for the collective good of society.

Nalivai,

very loud minority

That is getting more and more power, which is the problem. And this will exacerbate all the other problems.
And I don’t really think that “serving guaranteed citizenship” from starship troopers was a raging endorsement of the system

Treczoks,

What foreign languages do you speak? If you are a typical US citizen, your choice of destination countries is pretty limited. Especially if you want citizenship, you better be or quickly get fluent in the target countries native tongue.

mycatsays,

I moved from USA to Australia for university, then got permanent residency and later citizenship. I had a pathway because of (1) having completed my tertiary degree in Australia, and (2) having a close relative who was a citizen and could sponsor my application.

Without those things, my only viable option if I wanted to stay after uni would have been to go back to the USA to work for several years in my field of study, then apply for residency on the basis of being skilled in an in-demand industry. Australia maintains a list of in-demand skills, and if your field is on the list then that pathway is open to you - but you would also need to line up a job with an employer willing to sponsor your application ( I think this is mostly just about showing that you will have employment in the relevant field, not a financial burden on the employer, though I could be wrong about that).

My advice would be to make a short list of countries you would consider living in, and then look up their immigration websites and find out which ones you might have a pathway in to (each country is going to be different). If you have family with citizenship in any other countries, begin your search there.

HipHoboHarold,

What’s it like going from the US to Australia on a more personal level? It was probably a year ago, but on the Australia subreddit there was a post relating somehow to the US. I don’t remember what it was. I left a comment saying me and my boyfriend wanted out, and were looming at places to move to. Everyone was really helpful, and it’s atm towards the top of the list of places.

But I also haven’t heard much of anything what it’s like going from our culture to there’s, how people treat people moving there, etc. I imagine it’s not a super huge change, but still curious as to what sort of things I shoukd expect if we do go there.

mycatsays,

It’s not a huge change, and day-to-day the differences will be smaller things like words that are used differently. You get used to that without even realizing it. I remember feeling very pleased the first time I naturally used the word “jumper” the way Aussies do (meaning “sweater” or “sweatshirt”).

Aussies are generally friendly toward Americans, and thanks to Hollywood they tend to feel like they know a little bit about the USA which makes them interested. (When we visit my family in the US, my Aussie husband says he feels like he is in a movie. 😆)

I have never had any problem with people here not accepting me at face value despite being a foreigner and my accent giving me away. If anything, it’s a talking point when getting to know a person I haven’t met before. They’ll often ask because they are curious, but they aren’t hostile. If anything, they tend to be intrigued that I chose to live in their country instead of my country of birth.

There are systemic differences that may or may not be difficult to get your head around. For example, I didn’t find the health care system very strange, because I was young enough when I moved here that I hadn’t really gotten my head around how it worked in the US. But when my parents come here, they won’t consider going to a doctor if they need one because insurance, even when I tell them it’s a flat fee and give them the amount the local practice charges. It’s just not the system they know.

As noted by others, Australia has its own issues with racism. You won’t escape that by coming here, though it is different. Here it’s rooted in historical treatment of Aboriginals as sub-human, and “white Australia” policies from the early 20th century. Basically white people have a superiority complex wherever you go in the world of former European colonies.

I’m not sure whether any of that actually answers your question… Please feel free to ask more if need be.

owatnext,
@owatnext@lemmy.world avatar

I aspire to do the same! Hoping to escape to Australia one day from the US.

What sort of costs did you see completing higher education in Aus as an international student? I am currently going for a Bachelor’s in the States in an industry that is on the Aussie in-demand list, thinking of seeing if I can get a job with an Australian employer or continuing my education in Australia after finishing this degree.

Feel free to ignore me BTW.

Owljfien,

Australia can be expensive as an overseas student as government subsidies local students. I believe if you look at places like Adelaide or Perth it’s easier to get permanent residency, especially if you’re happy to be in a regional area

owatnext,
@owatnext@lemmy.world avatar

Perth (and WA in general) has been near the top of my list since searching about this stuff. Second would be between somewhere in Tassie or Melbourne. Got a lot of research to do.

mycatsays,

Happy to answer questions!

In Australia, the big difference between domestic and international students is that domestic students costs are subsidized by the government via a federal interest-free student loan scheme, whereas international students must pay each semester up front. That cost varies depending on what you’re studying. (Every university should have info on their website about international student fees.)

The other limiting thing is that on a student visa, you aren’t allowed to work more than 20hr/week during the semester. So you either need to arrive with a very healthy bank account or put a lot aside during summer and winter break, in order to cover cost of living in addition to tuition. I was only able to do it because my parents were covering my tuition and accommodation.

(A possible point of interest: my bachelor’s degree as a full fee paying international student in Australia ended up being cheaper than my sister’s degree from a private college in the USA. Go figure!)

DirigibleProtein,

As an Australian, may I point out that one of the conditions of obtaining a student visa is being able to support yourself while you are here. There is a resentment of international students who get partway through a course and then cry poor. Our university (and probably others) held a big campaign during COVID lockdowns to donate money, clothing, groceries to international students who couldn’t work and couldn’t get back home; like so many other things, there were people who thought “of course we have to help these poor unfortunate people” and others who thought “oh no, anyway”.

As an Australian, I feel that (in my opinion) while Australia is in some ways an easygoing relaxed society, there is a low tolerance for (1) people trying to game the system and (2) stupid bullshit. Australian society can also in some circles, be racist and intolerant, especially towards those who are non-white and/or non-christian.

mycatsays,

There is a resentment of international students who get partway through a course and then cry poor. Our university (and probably others) held a big campaign during COVID lockdowns to donate money, clothing, groceries to international students who couldn’t work and couldn’t get back home…

Understandable. I wasn’t aware of international students struggling when I was at uni (doubtless there were some, I just didn’t see them). COVID lockdowns and border closures were an extreme situation, and I would think there were probably some students who would have been fine normally but didn’t have the extra resources to deal with that large a curveball.

Generally, I think the rules around student visas are reasonable. You’re here to earn a degree, and that needs to be your focus… Not holding down a full-time job to put a roof over your head. Studying abroad is a luxury. (Of course, universities like international students because $$$…)

Anticorp,

Trudeau said a few years ago that Canada will welcome any Americans who can bring useful skills to the country. That isn’t a high bar either. He’s basically saying as long as you can contribute to society and not be a bum, you’re welcome. You didn’t specify where you’d like to go, but that’s one option.

ByteWizard,

Trudeau

He also ruined the country since then. I’d suggest Poland.

correcthorsedickbatterystaple,

good thing you explained how

Jazard23,

Since they suggested Poland as an alternative, it is probably something like “the gays”

electrogamerman,

Is Poland anti gays? I think they have been improved their tolerance in the last years? I know they had the pride parade in katowice last weekend

viralJ,

Things are getting better but painfully slowly. They don’t even have recognised same sex partnerships, let alone marrieges. One of the arguments against partnerships when it was debated in the parliament a few years ago was that the word “partner” (which in Polish is also “partner”) is already used in Polish and commonly means “business partner” and people would get confused which one you’d mean when you said “this is my partner”. Wałęsa, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate, said of one gay activist (who at the time was an MP) that he has no place in the parliament.

That was a few years ago though, and yes there have been pride parades across the country this year, and the news articles about them don’t seem to be dominated by reports of “normality parades” counter-organised by homophobes on the same day to intimidate pride parades. But I guess it’s one of those changes that happen funeral by funeral…

What was this post about? Oh, right. @OP, if you’re gay - don’t move to Poland. At least not just yet.

ByteWizard,

Trudeau

Just the one gay, actually.

DirigibleProtein, (edited )

I’d suggest Poland

… If you’re catholic, and able to learn the language, reputed to be one of the most difficult to learn for English-speakers.

tallwookie,

buddy of mine did manage to get canadian citizenship but he had a kid with a canadian, and owned his own carpentry business, and it still took about 5 years to become a canadian.

scytale,

Like others said, moving through employment would be the most straightforward way. I actually moved TO the US instead of from, and I did so by asking my employer to relocate me. It was still tough, but because I was sponsored by my job, I had a lot of support (immigration lawyer and relocation costs paid for). The most ideal way is to get employed in the US by a company that has an office in your desired country. Then try to get moved there via internal transfer. The next option is apply for jobs in the desired country that are willing to sponsor you, but that’s harder because not a lot of local companies are willing to spend. The first one also allows you to hit the ground running.

LucidNightmare,

Thank you for your response!

zlatiah,
zlatiah avatar

I'm sorry OP I couldn't answer your questions directly since I am in a same boat, so I can only share my experience trying to get there... Maybe some of this would be useful

Where did you decide to move to, and what were the things you looked at when deciding to move there?

So the only immigration-friendly countries I can find are Canada, Australia, and Germany. Not a big list to begin with, but for US citizens there might be more options with other EU countries. Canada has... issues, someone else in the thread mentioned about their experiences. Australia apparently is closing its doors. Sweden used to be fine but I heard things went really South for them a few months ago.

And if you're a lurker on Reddit you probably know r/IWantOut? Country-specific wise I know r/Germany has a phenomenal wiki for their stuff, and Canada has r/immigrationcanada. Unfortunately a lot of good information is still on Reddit so yeah

Other countries... I don't think Asian countries do much immigration at all, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe some EU countries are fine depending on heritage and/or where you are from. I have no idea what's going on in Africa, if anyone knows something plz let me know.

Where can I start? How can I realistically make it happen?

For your privacy plz don't answer in this thread, but 1) how old are you, 2) what type of education do you have, and 3) what type of work do you do? Having a college education and an in-demand career goes a long way, although this is also country-dependent. And yeah under many circumstances your employer could help you with the process. Certain parts of Canada and Germany obviously have language requirements, but a lot of other countries accept English. I heard some places allow investment-based immigration, but 1) it's expensive AF and 2) not sure if countries that allow this plan are remotely desirable for US citizens...

Also side note: please DO NOT give up US citizenship unless you have a really good reason to / already have something in your bag. I'm not a citizen here, and most US citizens have no idea how excruciating it is to immigrate to this country

LucidNightmare,

Thank you so much for your in-depth answer! I truly appreciate you and the time you took to reply! I am in a career path, so I should start there I’m assuming?

zlatiah,
zlatiah avatar

Maybe try looking up info from governmental websites first? A lot of countries (not US, cough cough) seem to have fairly straightforward immigration guidelines, so they'd probably write up what types of person they are looking for & the standard procedures

Old Reddit posts could be second

And... depending on the country, for some places it may be better to just DIY, some places having a lawyer might be extra helpful

owatnext,
@owatnext@lemmy.world avatar

Australia apparently is closing its doors.

Oh wow, where did you see that?

zlatiah,
zlatiah avatar

Immigration-specific groups. Not in a major way like completely shutting down immigration or install a per-country cap or something. Since Australia does skill-based immigration, my understanding is that they are limiting the types of ppl they allow in. I'd love to be proven wrong though, if I'm not right plz correct me

Renacles,

I’m not from the US but moved to Germany with an Italian passport and have had a great time so far.

kier,

Is it easier to move to Germany with an Italian passport? (Instead of something outside Europe)
I thought that Schengen implied that you could live there without questions asked, but I was wrong…

Renacles,

Anything inside the EU makes it really easy, people without citizenship need to go through a lot of paperwork to get a blue card.

The easiest way is probably to find an employer willing to sponsor you but that visa only lasts as long as you have an active job so it’s still not ideal.

kier,

Right right! Another Italian citizen here

We’ll see how it goes!

Renacles,

Good luck, just make sure you do your anmeldung asap.

LucidNightmare,

Thank you for your response, and I hope everything continues to be great for you with no end in sight!

Renacles,

The biggest advice I’d give is that you understand beforehand that you are going to a place with a different culture and should try to adjust the best you can.

This means learning the language, respecting their rules, etc. It’s a bit overwhelming at first but after a few months it starts feeling natural.

Germany overall is great if you want a place that is tidy and like having a large set of rules that make sure everything works the way it’s supposed to.

nobleshift,
@nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    circuitfarmer, (edited )
    @circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Assuming you’re serious, can I ask a couple questions?

    • What are the laws like with boats? Can anyone just be in international waters indefinitely, and or where do you berth dock/slip?
    • How much sailing experience do you have / how much is recommended?
    nobleshift,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    circuitfarmer,
    @circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Thank you for this information! Best wishes out there, cheers.

    cyberpunk007,

    What do you do about bathroom/shower/internet? Are you employed?

    nobleshift,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    cyberpunk007,

    That’s awesome, I could technically do this as well. I’m guessing T-Mobile is probably a lot cheaper than starlink. What’s your battery situation like? Do you find you collect enough solar to charge them while running a laptop? What hobbies do you have, if it sounds like you spend all your time on the boat?

    How big is your boat?

    NeoNachtwaechter,

    I recommend Norway.

    Never been there :-) but they say the country has lots of money and their health system is very good.

    Alterforlett,

    I live there. And as someone else said, get a job that will relocate you or apply for a school is likely the easiest way in.

    SelfHigh5,

    We moved here from the US 3 years ago because my husband is considered a skilled worker and he got his visa that way. (Programmer) I was an RN in the US and was happy to cease doing that at the time of the move and don’t miss it one bit. However, I would say to anyone dreaming of a wonderful life in Norway - learn the language like, for real. It is so hard to find meaningful work here without being fluent, even though everyone under like 60yo speaks it very well. It’s required for basically every job, even those non-customer facing. But it is amazing here and I don’t miss the rat race capitalist consumerism society in the US at all. It’s safe and peaceful here.

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    Moved to Canada a year and a half ago. They made the process pretty smooth and easy all told. With that said, I haven’t had a good time here and I regret moving. There’s a lot of “grass is greener” rhetoric in the US right now, especially from the left. Be warned that a lot of that is misguided. I was underprepared for the host of unique issues that Canada itself has. Leaving the US will not fix all your political problems. It’ll just reveal new ones that you aren’t familiar with. But, after saying all of that, I certainly would never discourage anyone from trying to move. Seeing the world and opening your mind to new cultures are never bad things. For all my misery here, I have learned a lot about myself. Just make sure you go into it with open eyes. Have realistic expectations. Visit the places you want to move before you move to them.

    Wahots,
    @Wahots@pawb.social avatar

    What bummed you out? Just curious.

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    I answered most of this in other comments, but long story short:

    Housing prices and cost of living are insane compared to incomes here. And I work in STEM. Think California COL and housing prices with a midwestern salary.

    The healthcare system is underfunded and struggling. You can spend a day on the phone calling every family doctor in an area and not find a single one accepting new patients. We did exactly that. Called 32 offices and nothing. The ER has nightmare wait times and walk-in clinics are not able to provide the care people need because they have such a large volume to work through.

    No major political figures are offering good solutions to these problems. In fact, they’re using wedge issues from the US to stir up their respective bases instead of even looking inwards at Canada. Conservative leader, Pierre Pollievre, recently called Trudeau a marxist! I’ve heard comservatives ranting and raving about trans people instead of caring about doing anything productive. Meanwhile, Trudeau’s admin was focused on a toothless gun ban when guns aren’t a major problem here like they are in the US. The lack of a gun culture is actually one of my big positives here, so I don’t know why Trudeau is focusing on things like that when there are major crises at hand here related to the costs of living.

    There’s a lot of corruption too. Trudeau is in the pocket of big businesses including the telecom triopoly (Rogers, Bell Canada, and Telus). Trudeau placed a former telecom big wig in charge of the CRTC, the Canadian equivalent of the US FCC. They have refused to allow MVNOs into Canada. Those are those third party cell companies like Mint Mobile that allow cheaper phone plans in the US. This refusal is despite Canada famously having overexpensive internet and cell phone plans due to the tripoloy. The insanity creeps into everything related to cell phones and the internet here. As an example, I am allowed only 3 voice mail messages in my inbox unless I pay more. I also have to pay long distance for calls to the US, something that isn’t true with US telecoms for calls to Canada. As someone who works in telecom, I can tell you that these kinds of fees are bullshit and cooked up given how modern cell networks work. I have had to pay $50 for an accidental one hour call to the US.

    Anyways, that’s all not even to mention Trudeau’s scandals. Namely the SNC-Lavalin Affair and the Aga Khan Affair.

    And all of that is just the liberals. The conservatives are no better. Particularly in Ontario, the premier (governor equivalent) here, Doug Ford, has been inundated with scandals. These include his scheme to give away preserved lands through under-the-table deals, his decision to put his unqualified nephew into a ministerial position in government, and an attempt to use an exception in the Constitution to freeze people’s rights to strike.

    These scandals are all so frustrating, but what makes them unbearable is that there just isn’t the political willpower here to scrutinize these politicians and bring them to justice. Both Doug Ford and Trudeau were reelected despite their scandals. Parties aren’t offering good alternatives and the candidate selection process for parties in Canada is far less transparent than it is in the US, so political activism is that much harder.

    Unless Canada gets its shit together soon, you’re going to be hearing negative big item stories coming from here not too long from now. Right now the conservatives are winning federal approval polls and there looks to be a good chance that their leader, Pierre Pollievre, could be PM come 2025. As much as I am not a fan of Trudeau, Pollievre would be even worse. Canada really needs there to be a political movement that realigns the current toxic party dynamics. People here just seem so disengaged from politics that I don’t foresee anything changing anytime soon.

    Wahots,
    @Wahots@pawb.social avatar

    Healthcare is one of those things I really hope you guys improve. My bf (canadian) is worried that they are going to deliberately sabotage the Healthcare system in favor of private (read: shitty) Healthcare that swiftly becomes as bad or worse than the US system.

    My own worries seem to be coming to fruition- that our own conservative parasitic ideas are slowly infecting many different countries, not just our own. Canada, Italy, Germany, the UK etc. Some have their own takes on it. Some may have even started it. But the American conservative party is great at spreading it, perhaps due to religious networks that operate like organized crime, or perhaps due to Murdoch’s chokehold on world news. Either way, having the dumbest fucking people drag us back down is infuriating. I’d rather focus on problem optimization such as a high speed rail projects, anti corruption and anti monopoly efforts, and above all, climate restoration ASAP. That, and making sure Russia doesn’t start WW3 at the worst possible moment in history to do so.

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    100% agreed on all your points. I think a lot about government structure and what structures lead to the most efficient and ethical governments. To some degree there isn’t a “perfect system” that will keep the fascists out and prevent the suppression of minorities. At least not a system that allows for healthy change. People will always be persuaded by those ideas unfortunately. Our biggest job is to fight these issues at the ballot box.

    With that said, there are some major thinngs we can do systemically to prevent people like Trump from making it to the head of government. The biggest one would be ranked choice voting or one of the other alternative voting methods. Those systems tend to make fringe candidates unlikely to win.

    The other big and interesting question I’ve had specifically in my move to Canada is deciphering whether a parliamentary system is fundamentally better or worse than a presidential system in these regards. On the one hand, a presidential system can turn a presidential election into a cult of personality. On the other hand, parliamentary systems by design always hand executive power to the majority party in their legislature. That means split government isn’t an option in a parliamentary system (unless the majority is formed by two or more parties). I thought moving to Canada that I would find the parliamentary system better, but I’ve honestly started to change my mind on it. I think not directly electing the executive here just means people do it through their single vote for a representative. As a result, the representitive as a concept is valued less. Beyond that, people have less direct control over the executive and people like Trudeau have less incentive to represent the nation as a whole. I think I prefer America’s system with a separate election for each position of government. If a country is divided then maybe it’s not bad for its government to also be divided. I appreciated having a Democratic house when Trump was president. It felt safer to have more views represented. This is in contrast to say, Ontario, where once the conservatives won, they had full control of both the provincial legislature and the premiership together, allowing them to get involved in all sorts of nasty business. If the government had been divided, Ford would not have been able to do things like invoke the Notwithstanding Clause.

    Wahots,
    @Wahots@pawb.social avatar

    I think the gist of it really comes down to who we vote in, regardless of goverment structure. The same way the lines on the road don’t actually mean anything. The reason why it works is because everyone believes in it, and chooses to observe what the painted lines mean. That’s why I always chuckle when people hail communism as the second coming of christ. Humans are humans, yo.

    Smoogs,

    Yeah I’d say maybe Australia could be an option too but there are caveats there as well. Like they are struggling possibly worse when it comes to housing vs salary. But that said their health system is in a way better shape as they’ve adopted two tier health system to have a private option. Yes, ok soo rich people get looked after. But think of it this way: they aren’t plugging up the spots for vulnerable people on need like they are in Canada making it impossible to get needed surgery in time. Canada is totally spineless when it comes to health care decisions. That’s the only selling point in Australia: the health care. The rife sexism makes it depressingly unbearable.

    thatgirlwasfire,

    Im interested to hear what new challenges you faced in Canada. I’ve heard their cost of living issues are a lot worse than the US, particularly with affordable housing. I’m not sure if that would be the main issue with moving there or not.

    MooseGas,
    MooseGas avatar

    Depends which province, but you will most likely have a corrupt, inept premier. Health care and education are neglected to a dangerous point. The federal government is a contest of who can be the biggest bozo and still get elected as prime minister.

    The ideology in Canada is to pay as much money as possible for everything and try not to complain. Prices for goods and services are out of control. Housing is so unreasonably priced that there is no realistic way of affording to rent as an individual or to buy a house without inheritance.

    Taxes are on everything and can be quite significant. Most people don't realize how much tax is included in the costs of most things we buy.

    We are also bringing in so many new immigrants so there is a constant labour pool to churn through and wages only ever increase nominally.

    If you're coming to Canada with a chunk of money, you'll probably be ok until it's taxed out of you. If you're hoping to move to Canada, get a job and rent or buy a place, then life will be tough.

    TanakaAsuka,

    I would disagree with a big part of this characterization. Specifically that prices are out of control beyond housing (which is completely fucked), but outside of that Canada has done better than most comparable countries when it comes to inflation over the last few years.

    Taxes are not that crazy unless your only comparison is the US, which is a bad comparison.

    aebrer,
    aebrer avatar

    As an Ontarian I also gotta say the bit about the premiers is also spot on.

    LucidNightmare,

    I guess what I’m trying to do is find an area to settle in that ultimately has the goals of progress as their forefront policies. We’re over here “debating” wether children should have provided meals, at the place they are legally required to be at. The government is ran by children in suits, on both sides. I am just tired of being in the middle of it.

    MooseGas,
    MooseGas avatar

    I hear you. I am hoping our issues are temporary up here. Honestly, our biggest issue is that housing is astronomically expensive and no one has tried to even fix it in earnest. Rising rates are having an impact. Houses are going up for sale and sitting there. At some point it will break and prices may drop.

    LucidNightmare,

    I too hope your issues are temporary. I’d have that same hope for the US, but 20 years later and they’re just going full force to regression.

    mojofrododojo,

    Prices for goods and services are out of control. Housing is so unreasonably priced that there is no realistic way of affording to rent as an individual or to buy a house without inheritance.

    I fail to see how this is fundamentally different than the US, with the exception of minimum wages and the corresponding cost of living prices that they bring. Housing here in unreasonably priced and prices for goods and services are out of control.

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    Housing has been one of the top issues for me. That mixed with comparitvely low incomes. I have a bachelors in a STEM field and I struggle to find places offering more than $60k/yr CAD. In US dollars that’s like $40kish/yr. Whereas I’m looking at close to a million dollars CAD for a house in some parts of Ontario. It’s absurd.

    The other big thing has been the healthcare system. It was the big draw for me. But it’s severely underfunded and bursting at the seams. My wife called 32 family doctor’s offices the other day and couldn’t find one that would take us as patients. ER waits are a nightmare and walk in clinics are crowded and overworked.

    There are also issues with government corruption and poor candidate choices in the major parties. I went into that in another comment so I won’t right here.

    The best thing about Canada has been the lack of a police state and the lack of a gun culture.

    LucidNightmare,

    Thank you for your input. Canada was number one on the list since it’s close and “within grasp” so to speak. I know each area will have their own challenges and hurdles, but the hurdles I am wanting to avoid is the stripping of rights from other humans like myself and unadulterated corruption from county to federal. Is that something you have had to worry about since moving?

    can,

    Did you have a particular province or area of Canada in mind? Pacific or Atlantic side? It’s a broad country with varying cultures. Our province’s are run by parties that share names with the federal ones but can be separate in they’re stances

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    If you’re worried about the stripping of rights from other humans and unadulterated corruption, then I would caution you about Canada.

    Quick history lesson: Canada only created their constitution in the 80’s after centuries of British rule, both direct and indirect. When creating their constitution they ran into some major issues with provinces needing to get on board, just like the drama that the US faced with their Articles of Confederation and getting the states to get on board. As a result, some exemptions to the constitution were put in place to strengthen provincial power and weaken federal power. Specifically relevant right now is something called the “Notwithstanding Clause”. This clause allows provincial premiers (akin to governors in the US) to freeze certain rights in the “Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms” (akin to the US Bill of Rights) at will until the next election. The current premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, has openly thrown this ability around to attempt to suppress strikes. That’s right, to end strikes that he didn’t like, he attempted to remove the literal right of the workers to strike. And this was a constitutionally enshrined power. So be wary, democratic backsliding is a problem everywhere and Canada is no safe haven from it.

    Right now, Trudeau is exceedingly unpopular in Canada because housing prices and the cost of living is absolutely spiraling out of control. The conservative party is offering a horrible and corrupt man, Pollievre, as an alternative. He will only be worse for Canada. The third party, the NDP, has not been being taken seriously here (though they have my support). The NDP has been part of the currently formed government, which has caused them to take a hit to their approval. As it stands now, polls are favoring conservatives.

    In terms of provincial politics, most of it is a shitshow here with the possible exception of British Columbia. Ontario has been especially terrible with our premier, Doug Ford, getting caught up in scandal after scandal. His administration was recently caught up in a corruption scandal of trying to use underhanded deals to sell off parts of the Greenbelt, a giant preserved belt of natural lands snaking throughout the province.

    The only thing Canada has been noticeably better on for me has been the lack of guns (I don’t fear for my life walking around my city at night) and the greatly reduced police state. Even the healthcare system that’s so renowned in the US has been going through its own shitshow lately, with it being majorly defunded by conservative parties. It’s been put through a major stress test and it’s ready to snap. My wife called 32 family doctor’s offices the other day and we couldn’t get in to see even one of them. There are nightmare stories of 45 minute waits for ambulancea or several nights spent in the ER waiting to be seen. The walk in clinics are the best thing I’ve found, but those doctors always seem stressed out and very quick to get you in and out the door.

    aebrer,
    aebrer avatar

    Corruption here (Canada) still happens federally and especially at the provincial level (like Doug Ford, which has many blatant examples and faces no consequences). Municipally (county level) I have not noticed as much, and my municipality seems to have a great local government that functions well... I've even spoken up and had a small issue resolved with little effort.

    However I think you'll find if that kinda stuff grinds your gears you'll still have a better time in Canada than the US, despite the problems (and we do have problems).

    Source: Canadian (Ontario) but lived in the USA for four years (Oregon)

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m an Oregonian currently working on migrating to Alberta, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what pro’s and con’s I’d be running into. Seeing housing prices in Edmonton while my in-laws’ mobile home is selling for over half a million really has me thinking…

    aebrer,
    aebrer avatar

    Honestly, I can't give you the info you need as I haven't lived in Alberta... But it does have a reputation for being the most right wing Christian part of Canada, so compared to Oregon I'd say it might be a downgrade

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Oh wow, I had no idea, I was assuming it was mostly in Quebec for some reason and saw the low housing prices in Edmonton. Thanks a ton for the heads up!

    MooseGas,
    MooseGas avatar

    Edmonton is probably one of the cheaper places in Canada too.

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    That’s honestly why I was looking at it, the prices kinda blew my mind over there, that I could afford nearly 3 apartments in Edmonton for the price of one in Oregon, and the apartments were generally much newer and fancier for that price range.

    Ertebolle,

    One thing I'd note about Canada in particular is that the current Liberal Party administration under Trudeau has gotten deeply, deeply unpopular - Conservatives have opened up a 10-point lead in opinion polling - and while their next election isn't until 2025, it's entirely possible that after that they end up with their right wing in charge.

    (that being said, the current Conservative leader is both pro-abortion-rights and pro-gay-marriage, so maybe not that horrible a possibility compared to what we're dealing with in the US)

    MooseGas,
    MooseGas avatar

    The Canadian Conservative party is not yet anywhere close to the republican party.

    magnor,
    @magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

    That bar is effing low though.

    kent_eh,

    Not at this time, but they are using the same playbook (albeit a 15 year old copy)

    can,

    Not for lack of trying.

    Gray,
    @Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

    Pollievre called Trudeau a marxist the other day. It’s the same empty rhetorical bullshit that Republicans in the US love to throw around. The CPC is headed on the same exact path that US Republicans were on a decade ago or so.

    Smoogs,

    Oh honey. You haven’t met an albertan.

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’ve been in the process of migrating to Alberta, but this definitely gives me pause. Just how bleak are things over there?

    Smoogs,

    They try to live their life to every country song. Small towns in Alberta have a small town attitude and judgment. They have a very ‘capitalist is the only way to survive’ attitude. If you are looking for a bit more liberal but still want a western small town to save on money to avoid the housing crisis maybe towards the east is better.

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Aaah, I’d been looking at Edmonton, hoping that the dense population would cause it to lean more progressively. The housing prices there are pretty mind-blowing, hadn’t seen many places with that low of monthly cost. I’ll dig East - any places you might recommend? I know Toronto’s pretty spendy right now \

    Also, thank you so much for your response, this is helping me immensely, it’s a big move to make, and I want to make sure I’m as informed as I can be :)

    Smoogs, (edited )

    Oh yeah Edmonton is a bunch of guys with pickup trucks and ball caps. If you’re looking for progressive attitudes probably far more west or Toronto might be more your jam but if you can get someone living out there to give you the run down you’d be better informed. I’ve lived in Montreal which is cheap to live and very progressive in certain things like minority rights but not in others (they don’t let you live there unless you’re french). And then Vancouver is super expensive but it’s progressive. I get why people avoid Vancouver though, it’s ridiculously expensive.

    Nyanix,
    @Nyanix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Phew! Good to know, thank you so much! I’ll keep looking, then :)

    LucidNightmare,

    I am not one to choose “red” or “blue” based on the party only. I actually care enough to see what the potential candidates have to offer, and both sides here have nothing to offer me besides empty promises and or stripping of what a normal person would call human rights. One side is telling sweet lies, and the other is just blatantly attacking anything they don’t like with enough vitriol to supply a country. I’m tired of being in a country where kids getting to eat, at the place they are required to be, is even something we are talking about politically.

    PrettyBlackDress,

    I heard North Korea is great. Immigration progress? Lol, don’t be silly. Just hop their border, you’re only looking for a better life and going through an application process is just absolutely oppressive and racist.

    Jackolantern,

    I think everything is going to be fine. The US is not the best country to live in, yes. But there are worse places to go. I really have high hopes for the new generation coming in. The zoomers and millennials will eventually replace the old generation in terms of wielding power and the lot seems to be more into making the lives of their countrymen better.

    Why not move to another state? Conditions where you are, are not necessarily the same everywhere. You can try researching for the best states to live in and see if any fits you in terms of your capacity and opportunities. At least you’ll still be in a culture that you are familiar with.

    theluddite,
    @theluddite@lemmy.ml avatar

    Things might not be fine. Throughout human history, on scales big and small, many people were not fine. Living in a crumbling empire can be a very ugly business.

    LucidNightmare,

    Truly, I am happy you see it that way. I do not see it that way, and that’s not going to change until the “debates” our “two” party system have don’t include children having meals, or telling grown ass women what they can and can’t do with their own bodies. Or that gays aren’t human and don’t deserve the same rights as me. It’s disgusting, and I have had enough of it. As to the states suggestion, that’s a reasonable answer and I thank you for it. The issue still lies in the federal government has shown me they do not give a flying fuck about progressing, and instead want us to regress back to the dark ages. I would be at the mercy of some idiot getting elected into that state and doing the same things the rest of the corrupt assholes are doing. Enough is enough.

    constnt,

    This is entirely dependent on who you are. My wife just had the highest court of the land tell her she has no medical privacy. Sure, right now it 's on state by state basis, but that can change. Every member of the supreme Court said under oath they wouldn’t overturn precident and yet here we are. I have no worries that anything bad will happen to me due to legislation, but I am a white cis male. My wife isn’t. My best friend is a POC. My inner circle is filled with nonbinary and poc. All these people are actually being affected by the “culture wars” in very real and tangible ways. Feeling like it’s all okay right now must be coming from a very privileged and secluded position. Having held multiple people that I love dearly while they cry because their rights were stripped changes your perspective on a lot of things.

    LanternEverywhere,

    But you just said it yourself, it's all state by state. And I'll add on that it's city by city. There are plenty of US regions where minorities of all types are celebrated. Nothing is ever 100% anywhere, there is always more progress to make, but there are places in the US that are generally capital-g Good.

    LucidNightmare,

    Those areas that are Good can just as easily be taken away just like my own home state has. The things I needed to survive as a child aren’t even offered to the kids of the next generation. Their meals are being “debated” by our “two” party system. States rights are stupid to begin with. It’s part of the reason our nation is so backwards and inconsistent. Oh, let me look at what states currently support the things I support, let’s just hope the next election doesn’t put someone in who will just as easily and much quicker take those same rights I moved there for away! I do not want to be held hostage by the whims of the few who get bought out by corpos and wealthy bastards. Enough is enough.

    cubedsteaks,

    I’m in a blue state which is “supposedly better” and it still sucks ass and I still have to be effected by shitty culture wars going on.

    LanternEverywhere,

    As has been said, just saying "blue state" doesn't tell you enough about where is a good place and where isn't.

    cubedsteaks,

    Yes but I’m in one of those places where “minorities are celebrated” - I’m a minority and I get the shit end of the stick still.

    constnt,

    Things are bad at a federal level. That isn’t something you can avoid by moving to a Good place, as you call it. Yes, I said state by state but that was only half the concept. It’s state by state for now. With federal protections being stripped that means we are one election from going the complete opposite direction. That is not a Good place to be.

    vermyndax,
    vermyndax avatar

    I'm a white male living in Alabama, and I'm very sorry to hear of this. I'm really sorry and I promise you I'm doing my best to vote in a way that makes life better for you (far above and beyond the current climate). You're all loved.

    Jackolantern,

    Why not stay and fight for it? I truly believe that a lot more people are good and want what’s best for their fellow man. it’s just that there is a vocal minority that skews perspective. The majority is still for the common good whatever their background or religion/beliefs are.

    As Mr. Roger’s said, “Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.”

    There will always be helpers. I hope you won’t abandon your country since it needs all the helpers it can get.

    I’m also a minority like your best friend. I have very limited opportunities, for now. But I see helpers in my life believe it or not. I want to fight for them and this country to help make it a better place too.

    PeleSpirit,

    Is this you Lucy from Seattle? Dude, you need to go on a retreat or something and take care of yourself if it is. I’m seriously saying this as someone who wants you to do well.

    LucidNightmare,

    This is not Lucy, but I hope they are doing well!

    PeleSpirit,

    Me too, he was mylucidnightmare on reddit that we all called Lucy. He kind of lost it in the last few years.

    I know around 4 families who’ve moved to Mexico and have loved it, I’m pretty sure it’s a forever thing and they’re happy with it.

    G0FuckThyself,
    @G0FuckThyself@lemmy.world avatar

    Not from US, but why do you wanna move out of US?

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Many of us are tired of roleplaying Germany 1930.

    LucidNightmare,

    When the general populace is agreeing with, and supporting people who have more wealth than 90% of the rest of the US, I can’t help but feel like I am insane and am held hostage by my “government”. Enough is enough man. Life is too short to sit here and constantly fight for rights that were already fought for lifetimes ago. It’s disgusting.

    Lucidlethargy,

    Move to a coastal city in California, and you’ll find millions of like-minded people to surround yourself with. I don’t think this is the answer to our problems, mind you, but this State is drawing clear lines on progressive subjects. We also have a larger GDP than most countries… There’s alot of power in that.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Apt username, and I sympathize. I’m perpetually astounded at the ignorance of mankind.

    LucidNightmare,

    I chose it awhile ago since being awake feels like a lucid nightmare. Haha I am too, friend. It does make me a little happier to see another who feels the same.

    TrismegistusMx,
    @TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

    Solidarity, brother.

    You’re welcome to participate in my little effort to shift the political landscape.

    slrpnk.net/c/murmuration

    LucidNightmare,

    We have a “two” party system that is slowly getting harder and harder to differentiate between the “two”. On one hand, we have a side that tells you sweet little lies that they never intend to actually keep to. The other is just using every dirty trick in the book to ruin what rights we did have, to make life harder for all but the wealthy, and generally fuck the people over for profits. It’s insane, and I feel insane having to sit here and watch as the “two” parties debate on wether or not children deserve provided meals, at a place they are legally required to be at. I do not want to be held hostage by my own “government” any longer. Enough is enough.

    vector_zero,

    On one hand, we have a side that tells you sweet little lies that they never intend to actually keep to.

    The other is just using every dirty trick in the book to ruin what rights we did have, to make life harder for all but the wealthy, and generally fuck the people over for profits.

    You’ve described both parties with both sentences.

    LucidNightmare,

    Indeed. And “two” is in quotations to further drill that point. On stage, one side will at least lie to your face. The other just doesn’t give a fuck and will tell you they’re going to take your rights away.

    irotsoma,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    Actually, they’ll tell you they’re going to take someone else’s rights away and make you so hateful towards that group of people that you’ll gladly give up your own rights just to take away theirs.

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