Gen Z, please talk to me: what management works and what does not?

I am an Xer who manages a small but crucial team at my workplace (in an EU country). I had a lady resign last week, and I have another who may be about to resign or I may have to let go due to low engagement. They are both Gen Z. Today it hit me: the five years I’ve been managing this department, the only people I’ve lost have been from Gen Z. Clearly I do not know how to manage Gen Z so that they are happy working here. What can I do? I want them to be as happy as my Millennial team members. One detail that might matter is that my team is spread over three European cities.

Happy to provide any clarification if anyone wants it.

Edit. Thanks for all the answers even if a few of them are difficult to hear (and a few were oddly angry?) This has been very helpful for me, much more so than it probably would have been at the Old Place.

Also the second lady I mentioned who might quit or I might have to let go? She quit the day after I posted this giving a week’s notice yesterday. My team is fully supportive, but it’s going to be a rough couple of months.

ProfessorGumby,
@ProfessorGumby@midwest.social avatar

Exit interviews can be a goldmine. Some people who don’t want to burn bridges might hold back and tell you what they think you want to hear but others will tell you exactly what they think.

1rre,

As a more “typical” zoomer I’d say that we’re a bit skeptical of exit interviews compared to other generations as a result of the whole “not buying into corporations being a family” thing & not appreciating a checkbox approach to employee wellbeing… I know personally if I was leaving a job where (not even because) I felt like any feedback I gave fell into a void and any I received was on rare occasions and only from my direct manager then I’d consider it a bit of a waste of my time to say why I’m leaving, so just try to get through the interview faster

Burninator05,

Have you tired asking them? When you sit down with the employees to discuss performance the conversation should be two way. You tell them what you expect and how they are doing while they tell you what they expect and how you are doing. Maybe what they want is unreasonable but you won’t know that until they tell you.

yokonzo,

The biggest thing I’ve found that make me want to leave a workplace are condescending attitudes and hovering, the absolute best jobs I’ve had had the attitude " you know what you’re doing let me get out of your way, and I know that if you don’t you’ll come and ask me because I’ll explain without becoming irritable"

Smoogs,

They are likely quitting because you are not putting forth an effort to build trust with people who are different to you(you’re favouring genx within just a few sentences so that is saying loads about where your glaring blind spots are).

Bad management is indeed the leading cause of unemployment www.hcamag.com/us/specialization/…/322106

hbr.org/…/quiet-quitting-is-about-bad-bosses-not-…

It’s also possible If genz are unhappy, so are genx. You’re just seeing through the lens of a manager.

Genx have just been soul destroyed enough (due to years Of being told bad management is part of working, a concept handed down by the boomers to make genx more pliable) to not have any standards to quit which is problematic because they are more likely to sit through abuse without reporting it causing a missing stair syndrome which anyone else is easily picking up on and not wanting to deal with all the fixing of alone.

So just cuz a genx doesn’t quit doesn’t let you off the hook. You all just found your level. It’s not a good level.

Hagels_Bagels, (edited )
@Hagels_Bagels@lemmygrad.ml avatar

This post seems ridiculous to me. If you would like to know why your employees are unhappy then why would you ask random strangers on the internet why they are leaving your company? If your (or anyone’s) workplace culture discourages employees to air grievances then you aren’t entitled to know why they would like to switch companies. Most likely, I think that young people don’t wish to be percieved or talked about as whiny (or any other words you can use), in the event that they raise issues which management or colleagues view as unimportant or inconsequential for the company. I’m also curious as to how you know that your Millennial team members are happy, as opposed to working just because they need the money and don’t see better opportunities elsewhere.

RecursiveParadox, (edited )
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think you got down far enough to the place where I explained I did ask them and got a bs answer. Or how I know my Millennials are happy with the job (mostly, there’s always something that could be better). And I did get them a lot more money last year, risking the wrath of every other member of senior management.

Talking down to anyone at my workplace is a huge no no. Our owner/CEO is a seriously old school Cypriot and takes his (mainly British inherited) civility very seriously.

Bluetreefrog,

OP, please re-frame your post title as a question with a “?”.

RecursiveParadox,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

Why would I do that? The statement is in the not the imperative mood, not the interrogative mood. Am I missing some kind of Lemmy etiquette?

Bluetreefrog,

Rule 2:

  1. All posts must end with a “?”

This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?

RecursiveParadox,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, ok.

jedi_hamster,

It’s okay to change positions/roles/jobs. That’s what you need to understand

CoderKat,

And in general, I think younger people are more willing to take risks. Changing jobs can be annoying. You have to start from scratch with learning everything, getting to know your coworkers, potentially moving, etc. But on the other hand, a new job can typically give a pay increase (which young people especially need). In many jobs, the only way to get a decent pay increase is to jump ship.

NAK,

Generations aren’t a monolith. It’s reductive to say “these people are leaving because they’re from a different generation.”

The best thing you can do is perform an exit interview and ask them why they decided to move on. If they’re good people they’ll give you an honest answer.

And remember, young people in the workforce now have had adults in their lives who were likely laid off during the 2008 financial crisis. Those adults were, correctly, teaching their children that companies are not loyal to their employees, so do not be loyal to your company.

They are probably leaving for more pay, better benefits, or a promotion of some kind. The only way you’ll know for certain is if you ask.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

They are probably leaving for more pay, better benefits, or a promotion of some kind. The only way you’ll know for certain is if you ask.

I’m going to second this. The best way to retain workers is to be pay the most in combined pay and benefits. work is transactional- it’s always been transactional, really. Employees are starting to realize that, and are going to be job hopping more.

Work is inherently transactional. You pay employees for the work they do. They do work for the pay and whatever benefits get added to it. Ultimately, if people are leaving, its because they feel there’s a better transaction to be made elsewhere. (and no. Donut Day and free coffee aren’t ‘benefits’… looking at you Clay.)

In any case, the way to retain individuals it ensure their pay and benefits keep pace with the demands of their current skill set. this means raises, increases in benefits and promotions. (Also, generally respect your employees, and stuff like that… but I’m assuming that’s not really the problem.)

atrielienz, (edited )

I can tell you why I’m quitting. I’m a millennial. I generally loved the people I work with. I like the work environment. Or I did. We have several old timers quitting right now. The attrition rate is through the roof. Retirement is upon a lot of the old guys and they’re leaving either for better jobs or for ones that are less stressful if they aren’t retiring. The younger ones (millennials and gen z) don’t see the point in sticking around if the older cohort leaves and take their knowledge with them. There’s no one to train us, and worse still, changes to the way that my worksite is managed make staying untenable. We don’t want to be left holding the bag so to speak. Blamed for low productivity after the older guys are all gone and the knowledge gap becomes more apparent. We aren’t really paid well enough, and we don’t see the kind of COLA adjustments we should.

Additionally, there is a shortage of us, we have expenses on tools and so on that add up and the company I work for doesn’t manage slow times and busy times. So I can’t even count on overtime. Sometimes it’s mandatory. Sometimes it’s nowhere to be found.

I have brought up multiple issues with safety and legal responsibility and been told by my manager that they need to think about it - repeatedly. I feel like my concerns aren’t being addressed. I want a good home/work balance. I spend 10 hours or more a day at work, and sometimes that’s 4 days a week sometimes it’s 7.

Worrying and stress are a big part of why I am leaving. I don’t want to be worried or stressed all the time. I don’t want to think about work outside of work.

You sound like a good boss who is engaged in the development of your employees. That’s good. But sometimes it’s just that we often take jobs because we have to, not because we want to. And when something better comes along we feel like we have to take the chance.

Wahots,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

God, when some of our senior team retires, I’m immediately finding a new job. Shit will hit the fan, and the age gap is like, 30 years. And we are probably still understaffed since most of the team is nearing retirement.

atrielienz,

Yeah. There’s a lot of new technology but nothing can make up for having thirty years experience on the old tech that’s still in use.

Furbag,

First of all, let me say this - You are better than 99% of managers out there because you are asking yourself these questions. It means you are wise enough to acknowledge shortcomings and mature enough to seek help. So thank you. I wish more people had your worth ethic. You are probably a cool manager, and those are hard to come by these days.

Are you conducting exit interviews? I know it seems pointless, since they have likely already taken other jobs and it’s too late to try and entice them back with a deal, but it does provide some context as to why they are leaving the company. They’ve got a new gig lined up, so they don’t need to pull any punches. You will tend to get honest answers.

bob_wiley,

deleted_by_author

    •
    datavoid,

    Definitely this - you can stay with a company and get a small raise yearly (maybe), or switch roles and advance quickly

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    datavoid,

    I think it works really well for some people, but personally I feel like you

    AA5B,

    I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs. In the first half of your career, in order to build experience and increase compensation, you need to change jobs frequently. Anything less than 2 years is a problem with stability, so change jobs every 2+ years. Anything more than you need to, and your pay lags your peers, and you likely are not gaining sufficient experience to advance your career

    I had an interesting conversation with an interviewer about ten years ago - I’m in part of my career where I thought stability is desired, but they were concerned whether someone at the same place ten years could adjust. LoL. Apparently even in the latter half of your career, it’s important to switch jobs regularly

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs.

    Same, and same.

    I ended up making a lot more money in my career by moving around.

    ZMonster,
    @ZMonster@lemmy.world avatar

    Just pointing out that we didn’t invent that mantra for ourselves. I’ve heard that same thing incessantly from teachers and professors which were gen x and boomers over the years.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    because retaining long-term employees is generally expensive, so companies do things to make sure job hopping is the only way to earn what you’re actually worth. this is 100% a response to companies own policies and not anything labor is doing.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    usually the savings are in benefits, and the expectations of raises. You’re also assuming they’re hiring from similarly qualified and experienced. They’re not. they’re hiring inexperienced people with lower qualifications… and frequently, the new people will be low balled as well.

    And I’m not arguing that experience is valuable, but the large companies don’t see it that way. large corporations are quite literally only concerned about short term profits- the get rich quick schemes. they’re not not concerned at all about producing quality products over the long term, or developing healthy work environment sore anything else. strictly what yields the highest profits in that moment.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    KevonLooney,

    Warren Buffett will buy and sell quickly if his investment meets or exceeds his targets. Berkshire Hathaway has a stock portfolio in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

    What he won’t do is act without a plan. He has a unique ability to see long term advantages, that’s why he holds over the long term. Short term opportunity exists too, but many people who look for it are impatient.

    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Mostly it comes down to companies being owned by institutions like black rock or vanguard, who don’t really care about anything other than what makes money- and are perfectly okay jumping ship when it doesn’t.

    This means that they’re controlled by shareholders that only care about steadily increasing profits over a very short period (quarterly).

    Also just to point out that buffet doesn’t just dump everything into the s&p like he advised every one else to do. He utilizes a broad mix of strategies- including things like swing trading across opportunities his horde of fintel peeps find for him.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    And let’s be honest. He’s getting completely different financial reports than we do. It’s an information game, and he pays to have the best information before anyone else. Buffet ain’t using yahoo finance.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Do…. You know what a Bloomberg terminal is? Professional traders/investors pay shit loads of subscription fees to get that early access.

    HFT hedge funds are literally paying millions to be inches closer to the exchange servers than their competitors because they flip trades so fast that an inch of fiber is the difference between winning and loosing.

    You market makers that are literally paying your brokers for them to give them your trades for fulfillment. They rely on up-to-the-nanosecond market data to arbitrage on your trades- if you’re slightly off in that order’s pricing they’ll front run the trade, give you the stock at your bid or ask and shave off that hundredths of a cent. Citadel the MM is paying billions for PFOF, and they’re not doing it to do you a favor.

    Speaking of Citadel Securities…there’s actually two entities called Citadel- Citadel Securities is a hedge fund that made 16 billion when most everyone else was loosing money. The other is, of course the hedge fund. Both owned by Kenneth Griffin, who definitely isn’t where he is because of his oh-so-me able face.

    Does anyone actually think they’re not vertically integrated? Of course the MM is sharing data with the hedgie.

    All the while… the SEC is wanking off. Literally.

    Sorry, but the only way they can say the us stocm market system is “fair” is that if you had millions you two could fuck around and…. Pay a fine that’s cents on the dollar for finding out.

    mightyfoolish,

    Short-sighted behavior: People are incentivized to not stay.

    The only thing that I have seen personally work is private companies doing a company stock program. You only share with the owners and other employees, thus you get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen coworkers retire holding a $1,000,000 in shares (plus the same in their 4K)!

    However, this was a large private company.

    ZMonster,
    @ZMonster@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t know why they just wouldn’t make it attractive to stay.

    I don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will.

    Every single job I have left is because I literally couldn’t afford to stay. I know you want to pin the phenomena on some obscure difference in generational ideology. It’s not that difficult. It’s not that obscure. We grew up in places we will never afford. You come from a generation that could pay 100% for college with a summer job, and you turned around and added a requirement for a college degree just to get that summer job which now days doesn’t even cover the rent.

    Pay has dropped relative to cost of living year over year since the 90s. I couldn’t get my employers to give me raises just to match inflation. And still, I hear boomers crowing about how uncommitted millennials and zoomers are from their half a million dollar homes. My gen x coworkers owned boats and I was struggling to make the rent.

    The problem here is not that younger generations aren’t capable of committing, it’s that older generations have grown out of touch with modern day cost. Some boomer rear ended me last year and was furious that I wouldn’t take his $150. He laughed when I told him his insurance would give me $2k easily. They paid out $2800. I am honestly still confounded how far out of reality you’d have to be to think that a bumper would only cost $150. You could argue that he was only trying to cheat me but that only proves my point more that us getting royally fucked by older generations is not from our own doing.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    ZMonster,
    @ZMonster@lemmy.world avatar

    For those co-workers who have boats, you likely don’t have the full picture of their finances.

    Yeah yeah yeah, I get it. I mean, I promise it’s you who doesn’t have the full picture - I live in Alaska, there are no cheap boats up here, there are no cheap houses, there are no cheap hobbies, etc. - you don’t qualify for all of those things without the ability make at least the minimum payments. Nevertheless, you missed the point. I didn’t have the credit to get a single snow machine or motorcycle, let alone enough of them to also need a toy hauler to tote them around. There is a vast difference between struggling to make rent, and being able to acquire myriad recreational vehicles regardless of how “paper thin you may feel their outward appearing lives are”. And the difference in experience and skill was not that much. I had to teach those idiot x genrs how computers work and a few of them still today “don’t use email”. So I’m just not buying the “evaluation” argument. I know what they brought to the table, because I was the asshole fixing their sloppy ass work.

    My god man, you are missing the point. You seem to only see my problems through the lens of your own life, which sounds like it has been mostly affordable. That’s my point. You have grown out of touch. Things are not affordable. I’m not talking about fucking jet skis. I’m talking about groceries and rent.

    JFC, I had to live out of my occasionally running car for two years and I’m getting boomersplained about perspective. 🙄

    Chocrates,

    Yeah, I wonder if pay is competitive with the market and they are getting pay raises to stay competitive. I am making less than new hires with less experience only because I got hired years ago.

    CoderKat,

    Not just a path to advance, but a path that feels fair and is faster than changing jobs. A lot of places that do pay well still make it easier to go up a level as an external hire than they do for an internal promotion. In other words, it’s easier to get “promoted” by switching jobs.

    Which is pretty weird. Companies would rather make the decision based off a few hours of interviews for someone who knows nothing about their company, over years of data for someone who knows the company well. I think it’s partly “grass is always greener” and also partly companies wanting to pay people less when they already employ them. They’ll pay more for external hires cause they want to get em, but once they’re there, there’s less reason to pay more.

    bob_wiley,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    CoderKat,

    Or at the very least, lower level employees often don’t get to give big ideas. A big way to get your ideas listened to is to get promoted in the first place. Small ideas only do so much. Sometimes there’s big, systemic problems that need big ideas to fix.

    Kyrgizion,

    Stop trying to be their friend or do anything outside of office hours. 99.9% of people are not at the workplace out of free will because whatever it is you’re doing is what they want to spend the next 40 years of their lives doing exclusively.

    As others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else. Which may not be easy in your position which I assume is middle management. Most of us footmen are very much aware of how you guys are essentially just used as the fall guys for all kinds of bad news from above, and that you have little leeway in making such decisions at your level.

    ZMonster,
    @ZMonster@lemmy.world avatar

    ## others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else.

    FTFY 😂 Honestly, I’m amazed how few people get this very basic concept.

    crypticthree,

    hold leadership accountable, provide a clear path to advancement and pay them well

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    hold leadership accountable

    You’re not wrong, but that can turn into a Game of Thrones scenario really quick like, if you’re not careful.

    crypticthree,

    My bosses have never held leadership accountable and it’s still a bunch of feudal lords fighting over their fiefdoms

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah but they’re all still alive to do fighting over.

    frozencat,

    Treat them as normal understand them listen to them you should be good

    maudefi,

    No, you don’t know how to manage genZ (or any other cohort) because that’s not a fucking thing.

    Start here:

    Fight to pay them more. Period. This should be at the top of your daily to-do list. Your team is the reason you have a job, and they’re the reason your shareholders live such splendid lives. So, you want to keep your position(s) of benefit & security? Then never stop fighting for worker’s pay & benefit INCREASES. It is really hard to care about management, production (or shareholders 🙄) when you can’t take care of yourself or your family.

    Curate a safe, work-focused environment that supports the life-cycle of a product that actually solves current, real-world problems like - global warming, profiteering, equality, etc.

    Stop managing and learn how to lead.

    Leaders:

    Know how to say, “I don’t know.”

    Show / do by example

    Share knowledge

    Support and foster knowledge sharing.

    Shut their goddamn mouths and trust their teams to succeed (that’s why you hired them in the first place right?) and when the team/member falls short of PREVIOUSLY AGREED UPON goals you work together to address the extenuating circumstance(s).

    Every company’s greatest asset and product is the verve, innovation, and vision of its employees. Squash, or worse, fail to invest in any of these aspects of your workforce and the human beings you’re trying to “manage” will “manage” themselves into better working conditions elsewhere.

    AgentOrangesicle,
    @AgentOrangesicle@lemmy.world avatar

    You said everything people need to hear, but in a cruel and condescending voice to someone looking to fix the issue that we’re all pissed off about. Consider your presentation given the context, homie.

    triclops6,

    Is wasn’t even all correct, more angry than useful overall

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I really want to upvote and downvote at the same time.

    LegionEris,

    Angry upvote?

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s just it, I’m not angry about it.

    It’s more like there’s parts I really agree with and parts I really disagree with.

    And then, with the parts that I agree with and the parts I disagree with, how they were presented in some ways I liked and in other ways I really disliked.

    ryannathans,

    Up/down votes are just a system for suggesting other people read the post. Nothing more. Should it get more visibility?

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Up/down votes are just a system for suggesting other people read the post. Nothing more. Should it get more visibility?

    Well that’s a side effect, I can’t agree with you though that that’s the only reason, as I know that’s not how people use it.

    They use it to either agree or disagree to what’s being said, or to show their approval/disapproval of how the comment was written, that it was with written well or not, even if they disagree with what was being said.

    ryannathans,

    That might be how people use it, but it’s not what it does. It just controls visibility

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Understood, but when you’re describing it’s just a technical mechanics of it. What I’m speaking towards is why the button was pushed in the first place.

    ryannathans,

    Do people actually want echo chambers or is it the effect they create by using it funny?

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I have no idea, you would have to ask them. But my point is an approval or disapproval switch can be pushed for multiple reasons, from logical, to emotional.

    Aolley,

    the old subreddit r/aBetterWorld is an idea that would help you exactly in this instance if it were not just an idea

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Appreciate the info, but I’m into Lemmy, not Reddit.

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