I’m male, and bi. I’m about equally bad at picking up on hints from men and women, but it seems more common with men to just flat out state what they want, either immediately, or after I miss their clue, which I’d presume to be cultural.
I’m bad with social clues in general, so I dunno if it’s a male-thing, or a me-thing.
I'm not sure if @FatTony is talking about romantic hints or all hints, but I think in many cultures women are socialised to be little a bit more Guess Culture than men, even if it doesn't come naturally. The same goes for LGBTQ+ in cultures that are repressive. And of course some nationalities tend towards one or the other.
As someone whose natural state is very Ask, I found this concept really helpful. Sometimes I straight out ask the Guess people if they are hinting to me.
The funny thing is, despite often being bad at ascertaining what is being hinted at, I have very much been raised in a ‘guess’ culture, a family that found itself to be very high-brow and fancy, which lasted until the companies went bust, and the debt caught up to them.
Anyway, that leads to me, while having lots of problem with reading ‘guess’ people (unless they grew up in similar circumstances, that usually helps), also apparently being pretty hard to read for many conversation partners.
In the end, I found that jumping over my shadow and just spelling out what I’m trying to say, ask, or think I’m being asked, usually resolves things.
@VeganCheesecake yeah I was raised in a mostly 'guess' family as well! They think I'm oafish.
You're right it does cut both ways. My 'guess' ex thought I was super hard to read because they couldn't grasp that I literally meant exactly what I said not some extra hidden meaning.
These days I'm with another 'ask' person so the only stress like that is figuring out what our mothers are trying to get at.
My mother’s actually pretty approachable in that regard, she’s a surgeon from a mostly working class family that married in. Anyone else can be pretty difficult though. Especially the part of the family that didn’t crash and burn financially, though they life on the other side of the country, luckily.
I’m usually a bit taken aback when I meet a ‘guess’ person that gets legitimately offended when being asked stuff directly, because pretty much everyone in my circle is pretty chill.
I guess everyone is living in their own world, in the end.
That's interesting how it's linked to social class so clearly in your family!
Come to think of it, the guessiest guesser in my life is from an industrial factory-labourer workingclass background, but different country. They experience direct requests as confrontations, so they are very easy to inadvertently hurt. It used to exasperate me, until I read the above concept.
Yeah, kinda curious, might also be one families customs vs the others, though. Might also be a family that became wealthy at the turn of the last century, and then got stuck in the way they thought they where expected to act, enforced via ‘traditions’ taught. Dunno, really.
The guessiest person I ever met was actually the mother of my last partner. She was, on the one hand, usually offended by direct requests, while also very much assuming and extrapolating things from anything indirect one said, to the point where she often became incredibly offended by things no one said, but that she heard. It was exhausting, to a degree, and my first instinct was that she was looking for things to be offended about, either consciously or subconsciously, but I also feel that I can’t really judge someone for the way they perceive the world.
I think once you get a group of people all guessing it normalizes it within a family as well maybe?
It really is a perception thing I think, but yeah it can feel incredibly exhausting for us, instinctively oppo and I guess frustrating for them.
I had some insight once when a sibling was complaining about how they kept making excuses not to pick up a gift they'd accepted and they seemed genuinely angry the person was still offering and hadn't "taken the hint" they don't actually want it. It's flabbergasting to me but seems like that's really how they see things.
One way to normalise it was probably that there where euphemisms seen as the acceptable way to hint at, or say something. I guess.
And yeah. I think people just need to come to terms with there being a range of ways others express themselves, and that they can’t expect everyone will just understand their specific way immediately.
It’s worse when they do that shit on purpose like it’s some stupid power move. I catch wind of that and I’m immediately flaccid. All interest is gone. I don’t need that shit in my life.
If you get a “hint” wrong you could end up having a meeting with HR, being told to “fuck off, creep”, or some other negative result. So men might see what could be a hint, but the price of getting it wrong is too high for many reasons. So you either stop looking for them or just stop acting on anything that isn’t direct.
It’s also kinda the woman placing the responsibility and the work on the guy for making the “real” moves in an encounter or relationship. He needs to pursue her and pay attention, not the other way around.
It’s common sense not to flirt at your job. You say something like “I’m going to the Flaming Donkey for a few drinks around 8 PM. Drop by if you want.” If he or she doesn’t show, then that’s it.
I would also add there is an element of the expected pursuit of the woman after she has said no. Like, no means try harder. I think it’s a good thing that a guy (or whoever) backs off once someone says they aren’t interested. You shouldn’t expect the guy you like to push past the first rejection then call the guy you don’t like a creep for ignoring your no.
Like there isnt decades of movies that hinge on this whole premise too.
Especially in a workplace. If you decide to actually ask out a coworker No doesnt just mean no, no means “be very careful about what you say and how you act towards them for the immediate future in case they take something you say or do as a further advance and decide to report you to HR. Or decide that you are now treating them poorly because they rejected you and decide to report you to HR.”
Just to be clear, these arent the ONLY outcomes and yes are extreme but I have seen both happen first hand.
Generally speaking, don’t shit where you eat. Which is another way of saying, don’t try dating in the workplace. That is almost always a bad idea, in many ways.
Regardless of any other fallout, I’d rather be someone women feel comfortable around, not someone they think “oh jeez, I have to be sure not to give any indication he might read as flirting.”
Hints are great if what you look in a partner is the ability to solve puzzles. Otherwise, they should be skipped. Proper communication is key to any successful relationship.
True in my case. When my wife wants a particular piece of jewellery for her birthday, the only way to make me realise is to slam my head down on the counter next to it and say “THIS. I WANT THIS.”
I swear, honey, I thought you said you wanted a glass jewelry counter. I distinctly remember how hard and cold the glass was when you told me that you wanted one…
My sentiment is that men are in this horrible place where consent is king, and explicit communication is necessary, but too many women still want to play hard to get, or do these tiktok challenges to trick men into giving them a reason to be angry.
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