The difference between the extreme wings is miniscule. Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
In Germany half of the voters of the Ultra-Left Party “Linkspartei” went within one election to the Ultra-Right Party “Alternative für Deutschland”. Even starnger, the AfD is financed by Putin who wants to recreate Stalinism, which is Ultra-Leftist, while the AfD wants to recreate a Führer-Cult which is Ultra-Right. And still both cooperate perfectly.
But don’t think the US is better. While Linkspartei and AfD together are 15% in the US the equally Extremist-Trumpists are close to 50%.
People need to understand that the Extremists on the wings are closer to each other than to the middle. While the middle tries to better things in small steps the Extremists want to burn the house down with everyone inside and then see who survives.
Sorry, but this is just horseshoe-theory Enlightened Centrist nonsense.
Methods? No. The far-right relies on terror, fear, and explicit power structures such as a police state to maintain power. Leftists oppose such structures, even on the ultra-left.
Objectives? Absolutely not. Right-wingers seek to maintain Capitalism, the far-right seeks to implement fascism as a reactionary protection of Capitalist hierarchy, complete with racial and gender hierarchy. The extreme left, ie Anarchists and Communists, seek a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society based on horizontal power structures. Completely different.
Goals? Same as objectives.
Horseshoe theory is absolute nonsense, and is used to protect the status quo even if the status quo must be radically changed.
Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam used mostly the same methods as Hitler and as Pinochet and just like the Taliban.
They wanted total power to reform the society to their day dreams. There is not much difference if you call your Economy Plan “Five Year Plan” or “Maximale Kriegswirtschaft”. In the end everyone gets under the foot of the Big Brother, the Grosser Führer, вождь woschd (Yes, Stalin let himself call Führer as did several other Extremist leaders).
We need to learn that the Extremists are much further away from the middle than the parties of the middle to each other. But also the Extremists are much closer to themselves.
Even Trump and Putin show a lot of those methods and while Trump dreams of US Fascism and Putin dreams of Reviving Stalinism their Objectives are just the same: Total power for themselfes.
Oh, I hear you already screaming “But they weren’t Socialists/Fascists” - well, they were part of the Socialist International, they called themselves Socialists and people travelled there to see Socialism. “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.”
The Way less extreme people defend themselves from the more extreme people is just “But they weren’t true right/left wing. They were something else!” - Boy, I am so tired of it. If 99% if your ventures into Extremism always end the same then I see a pattern that the results will ALWAYS be the same.
And seeing how easily East Germans nowadays change from Ultra-Left to Ultra-Right and visa versa I say: Proof by Observation in the Wild.
I am not even talking about the US where 90% of the people simply don’t even understand what left, right, middle, liberal and Extremism means. When giving a kid free health care is socialism and people think free voting is disrespectable liberalism.
This is even more bullshit, lmao. The only leftist you listed was Stalin, every single one of the others is a far-right fascist that oversaw a Capitalist economy. That includes Putin, who is reactionary. Even then, many call Stalin red-fash, and they aren’t entirely wrong either.
Additionally, if you think reactionary changes after states fall is because the far left and far right are similar, then again, you don’t understand historical trends or movements. These are reactionary movements to a large-scale failure.
Again, this is nothing but horse-shoe theory nonsense, it’s equivalent to astrology in validity but far more dangerous politically.
Here’s a quick example: which is better, an extreme antiracist, or an extreme racist? In your eyes, both are equally bad. Radicalism is not bad alone, neither is extremism. Each view must be judged on a case by case basis.
Whenever a Left-Extremist does something stupid his buddies just claim “Well, he wasn’t Left anyway. Lets just pretend he was a Nazi instead, haha.”
Brilliant. But easy to see through.
The Right-Extremist takes peoples property and life because they are the wrong race. The Left-Extremists takes peples property without reason and life because we wasn’t left enough.
The bit about the left taking peoples property for no reason and fighting people for not being left of them screams “strawman with no actual points against leftism” to me. You’ve got this whole “Enlightened Centrist” thing going on that just proves you don’t actually want to analyze things and instead just fence-sit because the status quo benefits you.
Learn to quote. I wrote “Extremists”. You claim I wrote “Leftists”. You need to learn that the Extreme Wings are much further away from the middle than the left and right middle to each other.
Also, I see you are doing the 101 of populism:
make up an enemy
secondly, lying pays off
become more and more radical
Oh, and by the way, I am living in Germany. You fucking have you idea what you are talking about if you are talking about left and right politics, extremists and middle. Honestly, you sound like someone with an extreme case of borderline syndrome who only know “THEM” vs “US”, only knows Extreme Counterpositions.
But that is not how the world works. Even our local conservative parties are much more leftist than eg the US Democrats and that is a good thing. I vote mostly Green and Social Democrats. But I HATE the Extremists, the Maoists, Stalinists, the Alternative Truthers, the national party, the skin heads (there are left and right skinheads in Germany so… pick your poison). And I see the Extremists changing without a second thought from Left Extremism to Right Extremism. Hell, I have even seen Left Extremists convert to Islam Extremism so they have Gods blessing in hating others. You can not make up how stupid Extremists are.
“Socialism does not mean the equal distribution of wealth between the wealthy and the poor, this would be too inflexible. Rather, socialism is a means of increasing productivity.” - Saddam Hussein, Leader of the Arab socialist Movement: in: ath-thawra
Best Definition of “Fascism” I have ever heared. From an Extremist Socialist trying to redefine Socialism.
You may argue “how Extremist” Fa, Anti-Fa and Anti-Anti-Fa are. But you can not argue that they are all Extremists.
Now answer me with your usual emotional one-liners. Add some foot stomping. I do not expect anything more from you.
The liberal Reichsbanner Movement is going to celebrate 100 years of Resistance to Extremism. They do not differentiate between left and right Extremism. Never did. And their members number in the Millions. That is how you really fight Extremism.
Extremism can be correct. The only correct response to racism is antiracism, which is an extremist stance. It’s fitting that a liberal party would fight leftist movement.
Actually Mao claimed his great leap forward was “Anti-Racism” (and also Anti-Classism and whatever) because he forcefully removed all differences by murdering pretty much any one standing out. Pol Pot never claimed that but technically speaking he was doing the same: Forcefully removing everything making people different. Yes, there is “Extremist Anti-Racism”.
Being different is as much a basic right as being treated equally.
An interesting excursus: The Woke movement labelled it “racist” when Non-Rasta-People wore Rasta curls. I on the other hand call it racist to deny people the right to freely chose or reject traditions based on their origin. Because one side is Extremist and the other is liberal. Now tell me where the truth lies.
There is a Bavarian Pro-Verb: Cats enjoy mice, but not me. Again, tell me where the truth lies.
But they also have been the loudest about rearming the German Bundeswehr in face of Russian Aggression since 2008. I cite their defence speaker from 2010: “Peace is worth fighting for”.
Well you are at least right about fascists thinking they are always right. Which explains why you would think your first statement is right even though it couldn’t be more wrong if you tried lol.
Antifa opinion: fascism is bad and must be opposed at every opportunity.
Fascist opinion: extreme Nationalism, the state and the populace must be as one living organism, the enemy must be powerful enough to unite against and weak enough to feel superior, extreme statist Capitalism must take place, all rights and freedoms must be curbed in the name of an almighty state, and the state is absolute.
If you are against people who are against fascists, wouldn’t that indirectly say you don’t care about fascism? And that’s how fascism gets a foothold. And with that logic, you indirectly support fascism.
That’s true in some cases, like being anti-microsoft doesn’t mean I love Linux. But when you are against an ideology that opposes the othering of groups of people to the point of mass suffering and murder that’s different.
Choosing not to support a fight against Fascism is inherently in support of Fascism. The ideology uses manipulation and violence to oppress people, the end goal being a hyper capitalistic ethno state. So opposing the force which seeks to overcome fascism makes it easier for fascism to prevail.
Someone mentioned antifa at work the other day, and I said, “Antifa? I’m in. Shitting on fascists has been an American pass time for a century or better.”
The looks of shock and horror on my coworkers faces was quite the sight to behold.
Well, I can tell you, in Europe Extremist Voters switch without thinking twice between far left and far right.
Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
Both hate the West, especially the US and Israel, both hate the way we live but without offering a better way. Both want to burn down the house just to see who survives. Only the Arguments differ, the left hate the people running their own society, the right hate the people running other society.
And always remember, Hitler was a National-SOCIALIST.
The “Socialist” in the NSDAP is only a honeypot so they could claim ground and voters who leaned socialist without much thought (“I’m a mill worker like my father before me, we have always voted socialist. Buuut that National-Thing sounds nice”). Same with the “A” which stands for “Arbeiter” (Workers).
There’s the same with the conservative party (CDU = Christdemokratische Union, Christ-Democratic Union) today. Lots of old people say “I’m a christian and that party has a C for ‘Christianity’ in its name.” In fact, their regional party in Bavaria, the CSU is more conservative. And you have three guesses what their “S” is for.
Isn’t this the asian guy who doesn’t understand that white supremacists only like white people and claimed to be suing the CEO of Antifa for damages that never actually happened?
I’m guessing that means this is also the dude who claimed people threw cement at him, when it was a milk shake.
Then they claimed the milkshake had cement in it, so people pointed out things like sugar would keep cement from hardening.
Then the cops said they had no reason to assume it was concrete, and no one suggested it was, despite them and the guy being the ones who said it was concrete.
Eyup, that’s the guy. It was also around the time others on the right claimed that people were pouring gasoline into bags in order to make “Makeshift Molotv Cocktails”
When
the whole point of a Molotov Cocktail is that it’s a makeshift weapon that the proletariat will always have access to as it’s just alcohol and fire
B) A plastic bag wouldn’t make for a good molotov cocktail as it would just fucking disintegrate and couldn’t be thrown that far of a distance, if any at all
I mean that would make sense if Antifa had anything to do with fascism. It’s just one of many movements wearing labels that intentionally misrepresent it’s members.
It’s like being anti-Patriot act and then others claiming that you’re against patriotism.
You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
And that’s like saying “If Black Lives Matter were actually black” or something. Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea. Much like BLM or Occupy.
The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
Yes, sure, it can, but I think it’s more of just a sign of the times. I think infiltrating and co-opting an ideology, intentionally, is pretty difficult…unless the infiltrator already has a large platform, they will likely be drowned out. Otherwise I think sabotage is a better (as in more effective) approach to slowing a movement (such as inciting riots).
For one, communication is rampant and anybody can get a platform. This is great for starting and growing a movement, but this makes it really difficult to maintain a movement. A large number of well-meaning people with a pre-existing platform (namely influencers and YouTube personalities these days) that each interpret and redistribute the message just sligntly different than original. From there it spirals into a huge, multi-pronged game of telephone.
For two, a lot of the leftist movements inspire democrats to join into the crowd. The democrat party has become the de facto big tent party. At this point it’s embodying the ideals of like 80% of the political compass. Naturally, this attracts a diverse range of idealogies, who want to interpret and spread the movement slightly differently.
Lastly…it’s fucking tough to lead a movement man. I couldn’t imagine what it takes to essentially corral millions of people around an idea.
The first and third points are probably why we don’t see a lot of celebrity activists these days to the level of MLK or Malcom X. The increased scale and speed must make it incredibly difficult to get and maintain control.
You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
You’re correct. I wouldn’t. Because I don’t have one.
Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea.
Tell that to it’s supporters.
Much like BLM or Occupy.
Wrong again.
The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
BLM and Occipy aren’t organizations. There is a BLM organization. But that’s like if I created an organization called Feminism. That wouldn’t make Feminism an organization. That just means there’s an organization based on the movement.
It’s more than just “fascist journalist”. Journalists report facts (at least that is what they’re supposed to do), any “blah blah journalist” is just “blah blah”
Also, fuck this guy, he doesn’t fear for his life, it’s just a made up story so they can again shit on those they hate.
One problem is that what they’re calling him is completely inaccurate. “Journalist” implies impartiality, of at least content with a non-zero amount of truth.
You don’t get to own a concept just by putting it in your name.
Nobody put it in their name. There is no “antifa” group. “Antifa” is a boogyman so that the far right can ignore what people are saying by labeling it “antifa”.
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