If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out or order delivery. Just because the tip system is a terrible system doesn’t mean you have an excuse to fuck over the victims of it.
Until there’s a national strike on tipping that could lead thousands of tip reliant workers to quit (like the writers strike), be a decent person and have some sympathy. Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit.
I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending.
Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit.
This isn’t a “just said”, it’s a fact. Not tipping isn’t a protest, it’s a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker.
I disagree. My business transaction is with the restaurant owner, not the staff. The price I see on the bill is the price I am required to pay. Anything extra is not obligatory, no matter how engrained it is in the US and Canada. Guilting patrons into subsidizing poor wages only enriches the restaurant owner.
Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages.
If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don’t utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping.
If by “enjoyment” you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I’m not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I’d shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others.
There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don’t want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free.
If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option.
If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then:
The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change
You benefit from a lower price
The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation.
This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage).
Yes, you should be shamed. There’s no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others.
Candy being enjoyable doesn’t entitle you to steal it if you can’t afford it. Not agreeing with “candy pricing” culture doesn’t excuse it.
I don’t care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn’t entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can’t afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn’t use it.
Again, the business transaction is between the patron and the restaurant owner. The employee’s wages are not the responsibility of the patron. They are the responsibility of the owner.
You’re saying “…just for taking it without paying.” However, I am paying. When the bill comes, it is a full account of what the restaurant charges me. End of story.
Edit: No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that the restaurant owner is solely responsible for employee wages. Everything else is social shaming.
You’re right, your contract is with the business. If you don’t want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it.
I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don’t tip, right? Surely you’re not waiting until after they’ve given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work.
No? Because a tip should never be expected. It can and is appreciated, but if it’s to be expected then I expect it to be included in the pricing of the meal, not as a separate “worker welfare” line item.
Then there’s no harm in revealing that fact ahead of time. Just let them know not to expect a tip and enjoy your meal shame-free.
I can tell you, as I’m sure you know, that tipping is expected, even if it isn’t legally enforced. If you truly believe in honest pay for honest work, then be honest about the fact that you will not be subsidizing their pay and relieve them of that conventional expectation. If you’re being honest with yourself, you should have no problem with that, right?
Again you’re expecting the patron to contort themselves through the social custom, instead of simply not participating in it. You seem to have this assumption that patrons expect and deserve a personal slave while dining. Maybe it’s an American and Canadian thing.
I hope you eventually find how freeing it is to not give a shit about what others say or think and just enjoy your meal, pay for it, and be on your merry way.
That’s exactly what I said, though: if you don’t want to tip, don’t go to a table service restaurant. There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is not expected, feel free to go there and not give a shit. Most restaurants offer take out now too, so you can still eat your favorite meals.
You are contorting yourself to justify the discount you give yourself at the expense of the person waiting on you. You are taking advantage of the fact that tipping happens after service, and that it’s not legally enforced, to lavish in the benefits of a personal slave without paying them for the pleasure.
You know very well that tips are expected, and know very well that the quality of the service you receive reflects that fact, and know very well that if you were honest up front about your beliefs on the practice, that the service you received would not be up to the quality you feel entitled to. Rather than reflect upon the unpleasant implications thereof, or accept service in line with the compensation you provide (instead of the “personal slave” you’ve become so accustomed to), you’ve decided to remain entitled.
You know very well that you’re exploiting some poor worker via unspoken convention, and yes you should be very, very ashamed.
Your assertion that non-table service restaurants don’t demand tipping is disingenuous. It’s ‘tipping culture’ after all. It’s spread everywhere. Best of luck to you in trying to shame employers into providing proper wages by berating patrons.
Please, send me your paypal link so I can tip you for this interaction.
Non-table service tipping is optional. Toss your change in or throw a couple bucks if you’re feeling generous. Those workers aren’t considered tipped, legally speaking, and they don’t make less than minimum wage. That’s a pitiful equivocation.
Tell your server when you sit down that you don’t tip, or accept that you’re a shameful, entitled little bilker. Stop your bloviating about “it’s the business owner’s responsibility!” and admit that you just a want a little slice of the exploitation for your own wallet.
Seems like you’re being deliberately dense, simply to maintain your held opinion. The restaurant owner SHOULD be responsible for employee wages, but they’re not… hence the entire issue with the US tipping system. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that you’re incentivizing the owners to never change, by holding fast to your opinion
All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then?
I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn’t afford to quit. I don’t see how that helps either.
And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can’t afford to tip, they shouldn’t eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that’s one thing, but you don’t get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction.
If you can’t afford something you shouldn’t buy it. Just because you don’t agree with the system doesn’t mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground.
You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not.
If you cared about changing the system you’d take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You’re just being cheap.
I tip. But there’s a difference between “I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you’re able” and “Don’t go out if you can’t afford to tip.” The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways.
I really should stop going to places that need me to tip. I need to save up my money after my mistakes ruined my life yet again. Im so tired of never being able to make mistakes without nearly losing everything
I see what you mean, but I’m not the one fucking over the employees.
On the short term you are right, but as long as customers keeps tipping, the system works well enough for nothing to change.
The more people stops tipping, the closer we get to change.
And I’m sorry that the change will hurt the employees, but it’s not my battle. And tipping does not support the employees battle, just this days income.
Tell me another way I can support their battle, and I’ll listen.
(I tip when the employees seems to rely on it, or if I feel extraordinarily well serviced.)
I’m pretty sure there is no legal requirement to tip. However, if wait staff end up below minimum wage after tips their employer is supposed to pay the difference, though this usually doesn’t happen and most people aren’t aware of it. Wage theft is the most common form of theft in the US, and this plays a part in it.
I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t count as counterfeit. It’s not meant to pass as real money. It’s gag money. You’re not required to tip though, so there’s nothing illegal about not leaving money or leaving something else instead. Obviously knowingly using counterfeit money is illegal regardless, but again this is counterfeit, just a gag.
In other parts of the world, there is no tipping. This is because it’s expected for the employer to provide the employee a living wage, not statistics and an underground economy.
It’s a terrible practice and ultimately hurts workers. It should be banned simply because it promotes worker tax evasion, which is not what I really care about here, but it’s a good reason to make it illegal. Making it illegal is only way to stop it in the US. It’s absolutely rampant. You pick up donuts At the dunkin store and they ask for a tip now.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from. But modern US does not spend our tax money justly or wisely. Infrastructure crumbling, social services abysmal, arts funding abysmal…we are constantly taking our great revenue and mishandling it while people across the country suffer. Our system works for the rich, while running on money from the poor. The entire system is broken, taxing the rich will not solve the problem.
For your average waitress or diner worker, tips are their living wage. But for people at nicer restaurants or who “hustle”, tips can be REALLY good income. This is why there is always so much push back any time some politician says “this is real messed up”. I think it was a somewhat recent story where the restaurant the South Park guys bought got rid of tipping and the wait staff were angry?
But, of course, the wait staff who don’t know how to work a table and the bus boys and the rest of the staff all get screwed over. Because yes, some places pool tips but skimming is 100% a thing and management is never going to stop it so long as they get their cut too.
The reality is that food needs to be more expensive at restaurants so that the profit margins cover living wages. The top salespeople will get screwed, but… they are already screwing over their co-workers so fuck 'em.
But now you have the people who benefit from being tipped getting angry AND the people who “could otherwise not afford to eat out” suddenly angry that the base price includes a living wage rather than the 2 dollar tip they leave on a 30 dollar order being the decider.
All that said: Outside of higher end catered meals in Europe, service at even a halfway decent restaurant in the US is miles ahead. Mostly because the staff knows that is how they get their bonuses. Still doesn’t justify screwing over bussers and low totem pole cooks but…
Why do I think you’ve only gone to tourist trap restaurants in Europe? You should look at a guide before planing vacations.
Although it is true that service can be better in the lower end restaurants in the US. After all, one can afford to hire more when they pay them pennies.
Tipping culture does not create better service, have you ever been to Italy? People tip because its the social norm, not because they like the service.
All that said: Outside of higher end catered meals in Europe, service at even a halfway decent restaurant in the US is miles ahead. Mostly because the staff knows that is how they get their bonuses.
If your idea of good service is having a waiter with faked cheer jump at you every five minutes loaded with a jug of ice cubes to check if “everything is great”, then sure, the US style is miles ahead.
If you just want a professional to do his job as unobtrusively as possible, the European way is the one to pick.
I’m sorry but I have to take issue with “service is miles ahead”.
American table service is weird. It’s an uncomfortable experience for anyone who isn’t used to it. You can call it a cultural difference but it genuinely gave us a feeling of revulsion - the fake friendliness, the platitudes, the hovering near the table, the constant refilling, the fucking survey mid-meal, the attentiveness barely concealing the determination to extract your money and shove you out and get another mark on the door.
Perhaps because most of these things seem to primarily seek to recreate the experience of a slave owner and their chattel.
Service in Japan and South Korea is better than in American restaurants and you don’t have to bribe the staff to be nice to you. The price on the menu is usually cheaper too.
Also, pooled tips are basically a slush fund for wages since the entire point of tipping is supposed to be to reward good service and if the tip isn’t going directly to the person who provides the service, what’s the point? Ditto for any tip on a service that hasn’t even been performed yet, such as delivery services.
It’s sad how much work has been put into convincing worker to buy this shit. It is not to their benefit. If you would make however much money after tips, you should still expect to make that same amount in a wage if we remove tips. It’s just a hurdle for everyone to jump through so restaurant owners aren’t held accountable to pay their staff. It’s also not uncommon for them to not make up the difference if the staff doesn’t make minimum wage after tips, which they are legally required to do.
Tipping is a racket. If it were in the workers favor, why would their bosses be so in favor of it? If the person who you’re working for is ever in favor of something financial, you should pay attention because you should probably be on the other side. If it makes them more money then it’s likely costing you money
The reality is that, for the people who “make it work”, tipping is a lot closer to being a sales person. You are talking them into buying the more expensive meal option or getting a bottle of champagne or whatever. And you are timing your check-ins just right so it feels like you are attentive rather than forced to interrupt someone the moment they take a bite to see if they like the food. And you know how to find the right tables to focus on because that group look like they have the right combination of money and awkwardness that they’ll tip higher so as to not be “jerks”.
Its pretty much the exact same bullshit that is used to discourage unionization in tech. When you are just starting out, collective bargaining is GOOD. As you get more experienced, you start to be able to negotiate much better terms for yourself… often at the expense of your co-workers. And thus, you become opposed to unionization efforts.
Because if you are a higher end waiter or waitress? You are potentially pulling in a LOT of bank. My ex was a waitress at the fancy French place in the rich people part of town and… she was pulling in low six figures. She ain’t getting paid that after a labor reform. But her co-workers also weren’t getting paid that and neither were the bus boys who cleaned up after “her” customers or the chefs who are implementing The Chef’s visions.
But, because there is an actual clear “bootstraps” route that people semi-regularly follow? Fuck my rights and wage now because I am gonna be rich in a few years and then will regret getting a living wage!
I worked at Pizza Hut in the 90s, and waitresses were usually making $200+ in tips for a 6 hour shift. This was in a state where they were paid full minimum wage of $4.95.
I delivered pizzas and made $5.50 plus an average of $30 in tips for a 6 hour shift.
The thing is, America is culturally really influenctial. Here in Germany we have a wide variety of jobs that typically pay minimum wage. Some are service related, others aren’t. It’s roughly 20% of the workforce.
But we listen to american podcasts, watch your movies, your series and so on.
So waiters tend to get minimum wage + tax free tips, while cashiers just get minimum wage. Granted, tips are more like 10% here. I hate tips being an expectation.
For the “bill” itself, we can’t see the other side, but there’s enough differences that you wouldn’t mistake it for real currency at more than a glance. Fake bills for movie/tv sets look far closer to real bills (basically with obviously fake serial numbers and “for movie use only” stamped on it.
For leaving it as a tip, it’s not being used to satisfy a payment. While tipping is expected, it’s not required and there’s not an agreed upon amount between the parties. So they’re just leaving a scummy flyer behind. Not any different than the people that ‘tip’ with Chick Tracts. If they were to use it to try and pay the bill, it’d be illegal.
It is clearly marked as not being a $20 bill. That 2024 is huge compared to the real thing. The flip side probably includes a picture of Donnie T instead of Jackson.
If you accept that as legal tender, it’s on you. On the bright side, there’s no indication that they were trying to pass it off as real money. It’s like those screeds where it looks like a $20, but you open it and it says, “I bet you would have been happy if this was real money, but let me tell you, Jesus is better than money.”
Gee, thanks. Let me ask the HEB of they’ll accept Jesus in exchange for milk and beef.
Maybe, but also only if it’s trying to be used as cash. Trying to pay for groceries, meal, depositing it at a bank, etc. would be an issue. Leaving it as a tip, while a scummy thing to do, isn’t on the same ballpark since it’s not an agreed upon transaction (i.e. no price for a tip is agreed upon by the parties), and you’d have to prove intent to pass it off as cash and not just a flyer/pamphlet.
I, uh, wouldn’t really trust touching that to my skin. I bet they went with the lowest bidder by far that uses some lead-based ink or some shit like that.
Anyone hard rooting for any politician is a moron. All D and R marked politicians are lizards looking to suck your wallet dry and deprive you of free will. These ultra Trump people are are cringey as the baffoons that think Biden is a good president.
I think the Republican party stopped caring about the evangelicals back in 2010 when the Tea Party thing happened. By 2012 their candidate was a Mormon and then we all know what happened in 2016.
Plenty fine. There’s a lot of them even claiming that Trump is literally the Second Coming, or a prophet thereof. I’ve even had one tell me that he and Pence (before they all turned against Pence) were the two prophets of the End Times in Revelations.
What’s so revolting and obnoxious about STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world’s trolling is low wages and high tips are precisely in line with #Trump principles (and in fact right-wing conservatives in general) and contrary to the principles of the liberals who are repulsed by Trump & his repugnance.
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