The bill creates three classifications of electric bicycles. Class 1 ebikes only provide assistance when a rider is actively pedaling and stops its motor when the bike reaches 20 mph. Class 2 ebikes can be propelled without pedaling and top out at 20 mph. And Class 3 ebikes require pedaling, come with a speedometer and top out at 28 mph.
Levy initially proposed allowing anyone, regardless of age, to use a Class 1 electric bicycle and making it a traffic violation for a child younger than 16 to use a Class 2 or Class 3 ebike. But as passed by the House, the bill would ban ebikes for anyone younger than 16 who doesn’t have a driver’s license or permit. Anyone 16 or older can use any ebike.
Hmmm. I think high school is when there might be a real need for an Ebike so I’d go with that age.
What age can you get a driver’s license? Does a learners license count?
It does say class 1 can be operated by anyone, but 2 and 3 can be limited to 16 and older. Yes that’s more restrictive then the past, but really it’s “Defining the e-bikes” because they were poorly defined based on an almost hundred year old law.
That being said it does limit the top speed of an e-bike to 28 miles an hour, I assume above that it’s now a motocycle, and honestly, that might be a good thing, because at that speed they no will come out of no where (hell at 20-30 miles an hour they still will)
As far as I read/understand, nope. But if it does limit the assistance to 28 miles an hour, that might be required if the bike goes above that speed. (Note: that’s only the point where the power would stop assisting, not the fastest speed the bike can do.)
I ride a class 3 and 30mph is not that bad. I regularly hit that coming down hills, even on a non-ebike. It does require your attention to be on the road and it would hurt if you wiped out. My fastest ever was 44mph
I’ll run a test at some point. Definitely faster than a car, but my bike has nice brakes. Not every cheap Chinese budget bike is going to have these brakes.
Also, because my ebike is relatively light/average, there is a “wind wall” at around 20 mph where aerodynamics become more effective than pedaling. Sitting up and stopping pedaling when I’ve been hunched over pushing hard will quickly bring me back to 15-20 mph. I don’t know where this wind wall is on a heavy ebike with fat tires, a heavy rider, and a rack full of luggage.
To the point of braking for pedestrians, on paved trails, I always ring my bell until people acknowledge me in some nonverbal way and I slow down for dogs because they can be startled by fast bikes. I’ve had many peds thank me for ringing the bell on a trail and I’m convinced if everyone did it, 2/3 of the bike/pedestrian animosity would instantly dry up.
Cars don’t care around here. They only see their phones, traffic lights, and the back of the car in front of them.
Odd, may I ask about your approximate geography? My area is very suburban and bikes mix with peds better than cars here because most of our streets are 6 lane roads with 40-55 mph speed limits. (45-70 mph actual speed) If the speed limits were 25-35 mph I would probably ride on the road a lot more.
Central Europe. Most roads in the city are narrow two-lanes, a few main roads have four or even six lanes. Mayor just sacrificed two of the four lanes of one of the main arteries of the city center to bike lanes which are only sparsely used. Extensive pedestrian zone in the city center.
Car speed limits are 35mph in the city, with select roads limiting to 20mph.
Most people that do longer rides would be fine with that. On downhill sections you can hit that easily enough, and there’s wind too. It’s definitely fast, but it’s fine enough. It doesn’t matter what you’re driving or riding, you always drive to the conditions anyways.
The braking characteristics are not all that different from a normal bike to an ebike, provided they weren’t deliberately ignored. Ebikes having a lower centre of gravity also helps this. If you want to whine about ebikes going 28m/h, you should also be complaining about 80% of the cyclists out there.
I feel like you’re missing that the brakes on current (decent/non-shit) bikes are quite satisfactory. And that cyclists normally dont ride at 28mph, unless going downhill. And that regardless of vehicle, it is up to the rider to be safe for the conditions.
It is not the brakes as such, but braking, which has a number of factors. One key factor is friction between wheel and surface. Your brakes might bring your wheels to a quick standstill, but that might not stop the bike.
And the 28mph stem from the point that there are electric bikes that go up to that speed.
Yes, locking up your wheels is bad. The same is true on a car. It is good that on small mechanical systems with feedback, it is easy to not lock up the tires.
On top of that, many ebikes have regenerative breaking, which makes it easy to maintain a good speed.
This doesn’t seem so bad. I live in the PNW and have seen people absolutely hauling ass on home-made e-bikes and scooters, easily 40mph and passing traffic in the bike lane.
I’m not against people building their own e-bikes, but at some point it’s not an e-bike, it’s a motorcycle, and they need to be in traffic and ideally have the brakes to match.
Yeah, imagine using rim brakes at 40 mph. Good luck with the inevitable crash with absolutely nothing to cushion or take the hit for you(no crumple zones).
Oh no, sensible regulation on e-bikes. Although the initial proposal was better. Splitting the bikes into classifications. And then splitting the eligibility by class (class 1 for any age) and class 2 and 3 for 16 and older.
The accident was horrible but also weird. Biking on the sidewalk? next to a highway?? With turns??? It just reads bizarre and like a traffic system that is very hostile to anything but cars.
Remember that for state governments, “Highway” is a term of art that does not necessarily mean “elevated controlled access high speed multilane thoroughfare with on and off ramps” but usually more along the lines of, “anything paved, but not dirt.” And the cops parrot this to make themselves sound like they’re very officious and totally not useless doughnut-eaters, and then news outlets follow suit.
For example, my state’s laws consistently use the word “highway” to refer to all paved roads that are under the purview of the state (i.e. not private roads, county roads, or municipal roads), even if they’re not wide enough to have a center stripe. Then what we’d think of as a highway I believe is referred to as a “controlled access freeway.”
Here is the location in question. This is definitely a Stroad, and it is certainly not a freeway. Stroads are well known to be hostile to pedestrians and cyclists. It also appears to have non-separated bike lines, i.e. some asshole just came by and painted bike icons on the existing shoulder, calling it job done.
Thanks for that tidbit of background. Much appreciated. The location does seem hostile to anything other than cars… that’s a stroad for you.
All that space can easily fit a protected bikelane and pavement on either side with a row of trees on the separator between the bikelane and the carlane… such a waste.
The accident was horrible but also weird. Biking on the sidewalk? next to a highway?? With turns??? It just reads bizarre and like a traffic system that is very hostile to anything but cars.
As someone who has lived in Oregon, I can say that I don't find that accident very weird at all. Although Oregon has some of the best biking cities in America there are still many places even in the Portland metro area where bike infrastructure is almost completely nonexistent, forcing you to either ride on the road or on the sidewalk.
Some people just never feel comfortable riding on the road and will opt for the sidewalk because it feels safer for them, and sometimes it is. (Hopefully those people are minding their speed and being aware of pedestrians so that other people feel safe too, but that's another story.)
And of course there are "stroads", as the urbanist geeks call them, which are something between a highway and a road. On these kinds of roads you'll have cars driving relatively fast, turning and changing lanes often to get into various shops, as well as people walking and biking all over the place.
When I think about this accident I can easily imagine something like it happening on a "stroad" like Beaverton-Hillsdale highway in Beaverton, OR (a suburb of Portland), because it's a main artery through Beaverton, full of cars and people all of the time, has tons of access points for turning into shops, tons of construction all of the time, bad street lighting, and of course... no bike lanes at all.
On a street like that I can easily imagine a person, especially a kid without a lot of biking experience, feeling like it would be safer to ride on the sidewalk and then getting hit by a car that decides to quickly turn in to one of the various businesses. So, yeah, it really is a failure of urban planning more than anything.
I don’t know about Oregon, but I see how people ride their e-bikes here in NYC and it makes me suspect that most e-bike/car collisions are the e-bike’s fault.
I’m from Toronto, same. Also as a pedestrian, those ebikers scare me the way cars scare them. They’re not allowed on the sidewalk in my city, but you’ll be walking with your toddler and an ebike speeds past you on the sidewalk almost hitting you. And they’ll switch between sidewalk and road depending on the traffic, so I have no love for ebikers.
And they’ll switch between sidewalk and road depending on the traffic, so I have no love for ebikers.
If they're switching between the sidewalk and the road, it's probably because they don't have even so much as a painted-off bike lane (not to mention a concrete-protected bike lane) to ride in.
That's not to say that some idiots aren't unsafe around pedestrians (I always slow down and always ring my bell when approaching people from behind, and I take extra caution around kids or pets), but the truth is that we always seem to have infrastructure for cars, we sometimes have infrastructure for pedestrians, but we almost never have proper infrastructure for biking or other forms of micromobility.
So next time you're irritated by a person on a bike, you might want to just take note of whether there is a safe, dedicated bike lane around or not, because in my experience it is very difficult to make a safe trip by bike where I life (in a very bike-friendly city, by the way) without sometimes taking or the road and other times taking to the sidewalk depending on what seems safer and less crowded. (Unless they're really trying to be unsafe and riding 20+mph on the sidewalk or something like that, then I'm with you, fuck em.)
Blame the city not the biker. An person riding an bike will always choose a protected bike lane over having to weave through pedestrians on the sidewalk. If you want to get mad at someone get mad at the city for not putting down a bike lane instead of the biker just trying to not get hit. Pedestrians and cyclist need to have solidarity to take back the road from there dominance by cars. Fighting between each other over the scraps they give us only helps them, we need to demand more.
Was there a protected bike lane next to you when they zipped passed you? It doesn’t matter if there’s a bunch of unused bike lanes in the city if they aren’t where you need to go. There are tons of sidewalks and car lanes that sit unused most of the time but we keep them open because people will eventually use them.
If we treated bikes like we treat cars and pedestrians and give them they’re own lane on every street none of this would happen, cause bikes don’t want to ride on sidewalks just as much as pedestrians don’t want them on the sidewalks. Weaving through pedestrians slows you down and is dangerous. You may be just as scared of bikes as the bikes are of cars but the cars aren’t nearly as afraid of bikes as bikes are of pedestrians. If your in a car and you hit a bike your going to be fine physically cause your surrounded by a metal box meant to protect you. If your on a bike and hit a pedestrian , you may come out better than the pedestrian, but you are way more likely to be physically injured or dead then if you were a driver. There’s a shared stake in avoiding collisions between pedestrians and cyclist that cars don’t have.
The solution has to be more bike lanes and not less e-bikes because e-bikes are better for the environment and people’s health than cars. Even looking at it as just a pedestrian your better with an e-bike riding in a lane next to you then a car, there less dangerous, quieter, and don’t emit a bunch of toxic fumes and brake pad dust that you have to breathe in. The cars are the enemy, not the e-bikes.
Sidewalks are for people. Where I live you ride on the bike lanes, if there are none, you ride on the road. If it scares you to drive on the road, don’t cycle in the city. Don’t put other people in danger cause you don’t like the rules.
We both agree that bikes on the sidewalk are a problem that needs a solution. Making it illegal to ride on the sidewalk isn’t working so the way I see it there are three other solutions:
Increase enforcement so that bikers will get consequences for riding on the sidewalk
Restrict e-bike use
Add more bike lanes
The first one will cost more than the third and could lead to chases that further endanger pedestrians. Theres also no guarantee it will work as long as there’s gaps in the polices views. This also will discourage e-bike use which gets us to two. Restricting e-bikes could stop them from being in the sidewalk but encourages more car use which is bad for the environment and you as a pedestrian. That leaves three which solves the problem and encourages alternative transport which we need to do if we want to stop climate change.
When there’s a problem with a viable solution you have to find out what system is preventing that solution and direct your anger there. Getting mad at the individual only disperses your anger away from the underlying forces that are making that individual do something that will remain. If you report that cyclist and the police actually do catch them and give them a ticket that’s not going to stop them. Even if they confiscated there bike some day another person’s just going to zip past you.
If your boss fires you in favor of an undocumented immigrant who they can pay under minimum wage, getting mad at the immigrant and having them deported isn’t going to help your problem, your boss will just hire a different one and laugh as they watch the poor people fight each other. You need to have solidarity with that immigrant and realize the boss and the immigration system are harming both of you and direct your combined anger towards them.
I love your typical cyclist answer. “It’s not my fault, it’s not my problem, I don’t care about pedestrians, it’s the city’s fault, the city should spend more money on meeeees!”
I do care about pedestrians, I walk way more than I cycle, that’s why I’m proposing a solution that will make both safe. The city would maybe spend a bit more money up front to put down some paint , but long term it would save money because cars wear down the road much more than bikes. Cars are the thing that’s draining the city budget by forcing constant road maintenance.
I don’t understand what you want , if you want bikes to stop being on the sidewalks and for the city to save money along with a bunch of other benefits put down a bike lane, unless you have some better solution. You haven’t suggested any solution though which makes me think you want to just be mad at cyclists and stew in your anger without doing anything, which doesn’t sound like a good way to live.
If you do want to get mad at something get mad at cars which are an exponentially larger threat to you as a pedestrian then a bike. Unless your main means of transport is a car and you can’t get mad at them so you take it out on cyclists instead.
“Well we clearly need to make it even more illegal then” -The Government
(Although technically was 16 year olds not allowed to ride e-bikes? If so then this is more permissive, because it says 16 year olds can ride class 1 bikes)
It's not Apple gatekeeping, it's the website owners. There's a cost to being GDPR compliant, and a lot of local news sites don't get much foreign traffic so it wouldn't be worth it to add GDPR compliance. So they just block people from the EU to prevent any international incidents.
No, it’s sites gatekeeping their dodgy tracking cookie policies.
US companies don’t want to comply with data protection rules of other territories, so they block our access, just so they can continue their exploitative tracking
Eh, often updated privacy laws (a good thing) can lead to an aweful lot of work (and confusion) for developers.
A local news company probably doesnt want to deal with privacy laws that do not effect their target audience (despite those privacy laws being a good thing).
The other option is to be a part of a global news conglomerate that ensures everything is in compliance, but that often leads to some sort of adjenda of what can & cant be published.
Or you pay a platform to host your articles. Which is awesome for anyone that doesnt have devs on staff (or retainer). But you are beholden to that platforms desires
It’s because the EU actually governs the storage and use/sale of personal data. This is the mark of a sketchy company that doesn’t want to comply with basic privacy requirements.
If you’re in the EU and you see this, it’s probably a good thing, and it means even the US viewers shouldn’t be visiting the site. Because the EU laws aren’t even that restrictive or difficult to comply with.
They were riding it on a sidewalk, through a crosswalk and someone turned into them. Of course.
One caveat I’ll say is that depending on how fast they were going the laws should be that they should be with traffic, because if I’m driving and I look right I may not notice someone going 40+ mph on a sidewalk. But even then the law should be “Where do ebikes belong” officially
In NYC, maniacs ride ebikes and mopeds on both the sidewalk and the street as it benefits them. Every time I walk my dog I have to dodge the fuckers going full speed down the sidewalk. And they always glare at the pedestrians like you’re the problem.
They also have a choice to follow the rules of the sidewalk they’re hopping on. Y’all are having this cars vs bikes thing and I’m happy for you but now you’re endangering pedestrians by getting onto pedestrian infrastructure without following pedestrian rules.
One caveat I’ll say is that depending on how fast they were going the laws should be that they should be with traffic, because if I’m driving and I look right I may not notice someone going 40+ mph on a sidewalk. But even then the law should be “Where do ebikes belong” officially
40mph is twice as fast as the max (motor assist) speed of a normal class 2 e-bike, but yeah, the real problem here is lack of proper bike infrastructure.
One of the many reasons you don’t ride anything on the sidewalk is that you cross driveways and crosswalks too quickly to be seen by drivers. Even a standard bike should be ridden in the road, because 15 mph is fast enough to “come out of nowhere” and be hit by a car. All bikes are road vehicles.
I always ride on the side walk if there is one. I’d rather get hit by someone backing up at 5mph than someone going down the road at 50mph. And I’m always watching driveways for cars backing up.
I’d rather get hit by someone backing up at 5mph than someone going down the road at 50mph.
It’s not about cars backing out of residential driveways; it’s about cars turning onto side streets and it happens at a lot more than 5 MPH.
Cyclists being rear-ended (at 50 MPH or otherwise) while riding in the street is much less likely to happen than them being t-boned while riding on the sidewalk. You have to factor the probability into the risk, not just the severity.
it’s about cars turning onto side streets and it happens at a lot more than 5 MPH.
I have mirrors, so I check behind me for cars turning right and I can see oncoming traffic for cars turning left.
You have to factor the probability into the risk, not just the severity
My primary concern is the severity. I feel way less safe riding in the street. All it takes is a semi-truck swerving a few feet, a drunk driver not paying attention, or someone looking at their phone at the wrong moment and it’s game over for me. The stretch of my commute that I have to share the road with cars is the worst part and if I had to do that the whole way I simply wouldn’t cycle anymore.
The real problem is a lack of bike infrastructure, but until that is resolved I’m going to ride where I feel safe and that is as far away from cars as possible. And I’m not on an ebike, just a regular one. I only go 10-15 mph.
It’s because you’re exactly in their blind spot. If they’re on the street and you’re on the sidewalk next to them. They’ll run you over at the next junction, as it has happened in this case. It’s always right turns and things to the side of cars. And you’ll be exactly there when cycling on the sidewalk.
Additionally car drivers don’t anticipate fast moving things on the sidewalk. They’ll have a quick glance at the sidewalk directly before and after the junction. Because a pedestrian can only move so far in the time until they made the turn. Then they’ll watch out for other traffic on the street, signals and so on. In the meantime you’ll emerge out of nowhere on the pavement, moving at 5x the speed of anything that’s anticipated to be there and that’s going to be a problem.
I don’t know how it’s in the US. But generally you should just cycle in plain sight directly infront of them on the road. It’s difficult to miss that.
When cycling (and driving tbh) I assume everyone’s an idiot and they’re going to hit me until proven otherwise. I don’t cross a street at full speed and assume everyone’s going to see me. I make eye contact and don’t cross unless they see me and start slowing down.
Cycling directly infront of cars seems like the optimal way to generate road rage, impede traffic, and endanger your own life.
For the better part of the past 25 years I’ve been bicycling primarily in US cities. The only time I’ve been hit by a car was when I was on the sidewalk. Long story short, I thought we had made eye contact, but I think they didn’t see me because I was moving quicker than a pedestrian would.
I’ve never really felt unsafe, except for maybe in Texas where pickups would cut way too close to me. But I learned to take a whole lane, which is my right, when there were multiple lanes.
In your defense, now I live in a dense suburb and we have a 2 lane 25mph road that is an alternate route if the highway is backedup. I bike on the sidewalk there because some people fly up and down those roads, while others do the speed limit, and I’m afraid I will be missed by people weaving around. Also the sidewalk along that section I use tends to be pretty quiet, when I ride, so I rarely have to deal with pedestrians. But I’m certainly on high alert for the roads and driveways I cross.
As I said I don’t know how driving is in the US. I heard it’s really bad in some places. I know it’s the way we do it here. There is just one road and cars and bicycles need to get along and share it. It’s not always easy, you’re right with that. But the sideway isn’t an option. Pedestrians and bicycles don’t mix well and there regularly are really bad accidents. And the cyclists also get killed by cars there.
There are studies. You end up having a 10x or 20x higer chance to die when cycling on the sideway by being missed by a car driver (I forgot the exact numbers). You can try and mitigate for that by really paying attention yourself, slowing down etc. Keeping track of all the cars around you. I’m not sure if you end up at the same chance to die as if you were cycling on the street. I’d hop off my bike and walk it across the junction if i were on the sideway.
Btw. is it legal to cycle on a sideway where you live?
I’m aware of the studies, but I can’t get past the uneasy sensation when a 10-ton semi truck drives by me at 50mph.
I’m not sure if it’s technically legal to cycle on the sidewalk, but I’ve seen other people on bikes do it and I’ve rode past police officers and I’ve never been stopped or told not too.
If you have no bicycle safe routes then sadly you should not be biking. Taking it onto the sidewalk not only endangers you in all the ways described in this thread, it also endangers pedestrians. Someone said they wouldn’t care about getting hit by a car coming out of a driveway, because that’s slower than a car on the street. Fine. But if I step out from my the huge bush my neighbor keeps on the boundary of our driveways, onto the sidewalk, and you crash your bike into me I’m going to feed it to you.
Someone going 40+ MPH is doing what amounts to riding a small motorcycle down a sidewalk. That’s no longer a “bicycle” thing. Imagine the howling and pearl-clutching we would be reading if someone were caught blasting, say, a Honda Grom down a sidewalk like that. Which is already illegal, for obvious reasons.
Just to be clear, “40+ MPH” is wildly inaccurate to the point of being a strawman argument. If the e-bike the kid was on was any sort of normal – and there’s nothing in either the article about the law or the article about the collision linked from it to indicate otherwise – then it was going no more than 20 MPH, tops.
I own an ebike and I use it on the mixed use trails in my city. Mostly I have it because I often pull my kids on a trailer bike and we have hills in town.
I fear that my riding on these trails will soon be banned because people are out there driving stupidly fast on big knobby-tired motorcycles masquerading as “e-bikes.”
There are tons of Karens pushing strollers on these trails and any election now they’re going to ban my bike.
There are lot of such toys on the market. They are electric. But they don’t resemble bikes in any way. I get the idea that they are mistaken for e-bikes when people ride them on our mixed use trails which are clearly marked for pedestrians and bikes only, not motor vehicles. People think anything electric is allowed. They are driving shit the same weight as a 125cc motorcycle in between pedestrians. And guess what? These vehicles go really fast so they are more dangerous than anything else on the trail, and they don’t mix into traffic well. The fools riding them are constantly weaving through passing everyone so they can GO FAST! WANNA GO FAST!
Gotcha. I hate that people will do whatever unsafe bullshit they can get away with. In my city recently we’ve had an epidemic of people buying small gasoline powered scooters that clearly are going over 40mph yet they barely slow down at stop signs. They also run every red light. I can’t step out my door without seeing this happen. They’re acting like they are bicycles and it’s bananas. Then there is also the “I’m going to ride my motorcycle at 50mph in the bike lane” people who I just want to slap. People are the worst.
Years ago I worked at a bike repair camp in Burning Man. We got people’s bikes working again by the hundreds. The occasional dickbag would try to bring his gas powered scooter or whatever in and we’d send them packing. I remember one guy was like “I’ll just borrow your tools and do it myself” and he got thrown out.
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