My name is Ashton Kutcher I am an actor, investor, philanthropist, and most importantly a father. I met Danny Masterson when I was 20 years old in 1998. He instantly became a friend, dedicated co worker, and role model to me. And has remained as such for 25 years.
As a friend, Danny has been nothing but a positive influence on me. He’s an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being. Over 25 year relationship I don’t ever recall him lying to me. He’s taught me about being direct and confronting issues in life and relationships head-on, resolving them, and moving forward. Danny is a person that is consistently there for you when you need him. We’ve traveled around the world together, raised our daughters together, and shared countless family moments. Not only is he a good friend to me I’ve witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have.
As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one. I attribute not falling into the typical Hollywood life of drugs directly to Danny. Any time that we were to meet someone or interact with someone who was on drugs, or did drugs, he made it clear that that wouldn’t be a good person to be friends with. And for me, that was an implication that if I were to do drugs, he wouldn’t want to be friends with me, which is something I never would want to risk or jeopardize. I am grateful to him for that positive peer pressure. He also set an extraordinaryy standard around how you tteat other people. There was an incident where we were at a pizza parlor and a belligerent man entered who is berating his girlfriend. We had never met or seen these people before, but Danny was the first person to jump to the defense of this girl. It was an incident he didn’t have to get involved i:i but proactively chose to because the way this man was behaving was not right. He has always treated people with decency, equality, and generosity.
After 9-11 Danny was a huge advocate for support of the Firefighters effected by the event, rallying his friends and coworkers to pitch in however they could. Danny had his daughter a year before I had mine. He set a standard of being a hands on dad. We have spent countless
hours together with our kids and he is among few people that I would trust to be alone with my son and daughter. He’s also a dedicated and loyal husband with unwavering commitment to his wife.
We have spent hundreds of hours working together. Danny takes his job seriously. He is kind, courteous, and hard working. He treated everyone from the grips to the teamsters to the actors to the caterers as equals. He showed up on time all the time and always pulled his weight. We have also traveled around the world together promoting our work. I can honestly say that no matter where we were, or who we were with, I never saw my friend be anything other than the guy I have described.
While I’m aware that the judgement has been cast as guilty on two counts of rape by force and the victims have a great desire for justice. I hope that my testament to his character is taken into consideration in sentencing. I do not believe he is an ongoing harm to society and having his daughter raised without a present father would a tertiary injustice in and of itself. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
That’s fair. I can’t remember the last time I asked of my friends, or they asked of me, “Forcibly raped anyone recently?” I’m quite certain anyone who would forcibly rape another person would answer that honestly. Really this is all Ashton’s fault. Had he just asked that question, we could have got this mess taken care of long ago.
He knew the truth. Even if he never outright asked, he knew in his gut that something was off with that scumbag. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was also someone of questionable morals. You are the people you surround yourself with, i fully believe that.
I am writing this character letter on behalf of my dear friend, Danny Masterson, with whom I have had the privilege of sharing a significant part of my life. My name is Mila Kunis, and I am an actress, and I believe it is essential to share the remarkable influence Danny has had on my life and the lives of others.
I first met Danny during our time working together on That 70’s Show, and from the very beginning, I could sense his innate goodness and genuine nature. Throughout our time together, Danny has proven to be an amazing friend, confidant, and, above all, an outstanding older brother figure to me. His caring nature and ability to offer guidance have been instrumental in my growth both personally and professionally.
One of the most remarkable aspects of Danny’s character is his unwavering commitment to discouraging the use of drugs. His influence on me in this regard has been invaluable. In an industry where the pressures and temptations of substance use can be overwhelming, Danny played a pivotal role in guiding me away from such destructive paths. His dedication to avoiding all substances has inspired not only me but also countless others in our circle. Danny’s steadfastness in promoting a drug-free lifestyle has been a guiding light in my journey through the entertainment world and has helped me prioritize my well-being and focus on making responsible choices. His genuine concern for those around him and his commitment to leading by example make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Danny’s role as a husband and father to his daughter has been nothing short of extraordinary. Witnessing his interactions with his daughter has been heartwarming and enlightening. He prioritizes his family, education, and happiness above all else, demonstrating his unwavering commitment to being a loving and responsible parent. As a father, he leads by example, instilling in her values that reflect integrity, compassion, and respect for others.
Moreover, Danny has consistently displayed a profound sense of responsibility and care for those around him. He demonstrates grace and empathy in every situation, be it within the entertainment industry or in our personal lives. His steady support and understanding presence make him a reliable source of guidance and comfort for all of us.
Danny Masterson’s warmth, humor, and positive outlook on life have been a driving force in shaping my character and the way I approach life’s challenges. His unwavering commitment to being an exceptional older brother figure to me has had a transformative impact on my life, instilling in me a sense of self-belief and encouraging me to aim for greatness, but all while maintaining a sense of humility.
In conclusion, I wholeheartedly vouch for Danny Masterson’s exceptional character and the tremendous positive influence he has had on me and the people around him. His dedication to leading a drug-free life and the genuine care he extends to others make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Please feel free to reach out if you require any further information or clarification.
Thanks for posting. Mila Kunis has some pretty interesting interviews from the mid 00s about her experience working on the 70s show. In the one I saw she talked about how Danny encouraged then 20 year old Kutchner to French kiss then 14 year old Kunis, which he did. Kutchner was also there and said the same thing, emphasising how it was definitely Danny’s idea to take the heat off of himself. She also has interviews discussing similar and possibly worse things. I wonder why she didn’t include that in her letter…
I thought this one was the most interesting as it addresses his crimes head on.
#Debra Jo Rup’s (who played the mom/Kitty Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo,
My name is Debra, I am 72 years old, and I live in the mountains In Western Massachusetts. I am writing this letter on behalf of Danny Masterson.
I have known Danny and his family since 1998 when I began working with him on “That 70’s Show”. I am aware that Danny is convicted of 2 counts of forceable rape and, though it is so hard for me to wrap my head around this, I respect the law and the court. I always have.
But I would like to tell you about the young man I know. Danny was the leader of the “kids” on our show. He had the most acting experience and was a little bit older. He was well liked and very respected. One of the first things Danny did with them was to sit them all down (he had a little meeting) and had them al make a pact that no one would do drugs because of the nature of our show. The spotlight would be on them and he wanted everyone to succeed. I remember thinking that it was such a smart thing to do and something I never would have thought of. As a result, you never saw them in the tabloids. Danny made sure of that and I was so appreciative. They all kept their word.
Danny was always respectful and kind. On show days when the camera crew would come in, Danny was the one that shook each camera man’s hand before we started. He knew everyone’s name, where they lived and about their families. I did not. He was loved. Over the years Danny is one of the few that came to support me by seeing my shows in the theater. He brought his family sometimes. And it was a joy. And so appreciated. One night we went to dinner, he had dragged another cast member, his father and some friends to see me, and it was dark and late after theater. I had to get home in New York City so Danny called an Uber, paid for it and escorted me out. There are so many instances of things like this. He was just like that. Respectful and kind.
Wilmer Valderama asked the cast of 70’s Show to go to his high school graduation. Danny and I were the only ones to go. I remember looking at him and dying. It was outside, in the valley, really hot, and he was a “V” alphabetically. We laughed so hard during that. It’s a really nice memory. Danny just always showed up to support.
I knew Danny’s family through work. I had worked with his brother Chris on another show and always saw his family hanging out in his dressing room. Danny’s dressing room was above mine and Danny loved music. Many times I found myself going upstairs to ask him to turn it down and was always greeted with an apology, a grin and an instant fix. It’s these little things that come to mind when I think of Danny. I later did his show ''The Ranch", he called me at home in Massachusetts. I hadn’t done tv in awhile, and he offered it to me. I was so grateful and touched. I loved hearing him play with his daughter in the hallways - it was an awesome giggle.
So thank you for allowing me to-tell you about the Danny Masterson that I love I just read this letter back. It’s so hard for me to express o paper but I understand that he is facing a lengthy sentence and I really wanted to tell you about these moments. He would take the time to do it for me.
These letters are wild. Why? Why get involved? He’s been convicted. Just stay out of it. Now you simply look like you’re defending a convicted rapist. I don’t care if it was my best friend. I’m not going to write a letter for a rapist asking for the judge to go easy on him because he was always nice to me.
Yes. Supposedly it was Danny Masterson that recruited them. Some of them claim to no longer be involved with the church, but celebrities have been known to lie about that before, likely a church PR move to convince people they’re totally not a cult and that people can leave any time.
#Kurtwood Smith’s (who played the dad/Red Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo:
My name is Kurtwood Smith. I have been a professional actor for 57 years, the last 43 years working primarily in film and television. It is as an actor that I came to know Danny Masterson.
I should mention that I am aware that Danny has been convicted of two counts of forcible rape and is awaiting sentencing.
I have known Danny since the spring of 1998, when we began filming the television show That 70s Show. We worked on the show for eight years and I consider Danny to be a good friend. Our friendship revolved around work. Primarily because of our age difference we didn’t socialize much outside of work but I saw hi every day on the job whether we had scenes together or not.
I believe Danny to be a wonderful actor. When working together I always found him to be prepared, inventive, and responsive to suggestions from the director, myself, and other actors. Danny was also very enjoyable to be around. He has a quick wit and a good sense of humor. I always looked forward to working on scenes with Danny. I should mention that he was extremely popular with the crew. He was usually the first actor to learn every crew member’s name, what their job was, and how it related to his job. Danny was the leader among his contemporaries in the cast. He was a tad older and much more experienced and he took that position seriously.
During the eight years we did the show. we never had the problems some other shows had with their younger cast members. After the show ended in 2006 I didn’t see much of Danny, except for occasional events, until almost 10 years later, when I began playing a recurring character on The Ranch. Danny was one of the stars of the show. I was happy to be working with him again. It was also great to see his family. If you know Danny, you know his family.
I have known his parents and younger brothers and sister since we started work on That 70s Show. They are a very close knit family; they seem to care very much for each other and work to help one another succeed.
Danny was now married and the father of a beautiful little girl. It was a treat to spend some time with him at work and to be around him and his family. I had met his wife while we were still shooting That 70s Show, although they were not married at the time.
I found that Danny treated all women on the show with respect, not only the women in the cast, but women on the crew as well. It was my observation that he treated the woman he married in a respectful and loving way. Later, when we were working on The Ranch. I was aware that, not only were they a happy couple, but he was a wonderful father to his daughter.
I had the opportunity to watch Danny with his daughter. At the time she was maybe two or three years old. It was so clear how much he loved her and how delighted he was with her. He was so patient and easygoing with her. At one point, when she became fussy, he joked with her and made faces and she calmed down and was laughing. She clearly loved her daddy.
I consider Danny a talented, hardworking, giving actor. I have viewed him being respectful and considerate to those he has worked with. He has been a leader and positive force among his peers. He has seemed loving and caring, not only towards his wife and daughter, but his family at large.
For all the reasons I have mentioned I consider myself fortunate to have had Danny Masterson in my life.
That’s a weird fucking letter. It doesn’t go far enough to fully endorse his character because of the repeated distance, but it’s too positive to be damning with faint praise. It reads like he wanted to help without going out on a limb
I think that was a smartly written letter from the standpoint that he told the truth of his observations from his perspective, but made no attempt to sway opinion of Danny’s character. Under the circumstances if you really feel compelled to submit a letter, it’s the honest way of doing it.
He said nothing of note, the only reason to do this is to have done it which to me shows support for him.
He can calm his child and not be outwardly hostile to women in his life. I think he’s a nice guy. It’s a weaker stance than Ashton’s but it’s cut from the same cloth.
But that’s the thing: he’s not making an effective argument for the judge, and he’s not taking a moral stand not to side with rapists. It’s too wishy washy to have an impact.
I agree that he felt compelled to write it, stuck exclusively to what he knew well, and tried to be honest, I just don’t get why.
It’s a personal pet peeve of mine when articles reference documents with no link. I prefer to read stuff for myself and come to my own conclusions.
I feel the same. There is a lot of room for spin when people report their interpretation of a document, what they think about it, and how it makes them feel.
The fact that Ashton was not aware about the numerous sexual assaults coming from the church of scientology is really damming. Sure, he can be biased about long term friend/coworker, it's messed up to write charcter letters after the victim testimony when the went in to the details of what Masterson did, but to turn a blind eye to scientology? And you care about victims? About. trafficking? About SA? Fuck off.
Clearly they were never serious about Thorn and was likely only a PR move. At least Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith haven't spent the last couple years telling people to believe victims. Still gross, but Ashton put him self on this pedestal. Kunis to a lesser extent, since she wasnt a founder. But I am just so disappointed at all of these people.
I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, but Ashton publicly crucified and called every person arrested by thorn a trafficker and rapist, before they had their day in court. Yet when it’s his friend, even after three verdict, he’s still defending him. It just makes all his work with thorn look self serving, and makes me wonder if he’s doing it to throw people off the scent, considering he bedded a 14 year old.
When he and his wife met, she was 14. He claims that he did absolutely nothing with her until she turned 18, but considering the stuff that’s come out about them in those days recently, I don’t believe him
Ashton’s first wife was 15 years older than him? And when he married Mila she would’ve been 32.
I guess they did meet on set when Mila was 14 but like she didn’t start dating him until she was in her late twenties and it looks like she was dating Macaulay Culkin before then.
I have no dog in this fight really… I don’t have any particular feelings for Ashton; but that doesn’t really hit me as the moves of a predator. By her late twenties Mila surely was old enough to make her own choices, no? And she was clearly with someone else for a long time, no?
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
I’d still write it. I wouldn’t excuse what they did. I’d simply point out that at least one person on the outside knows a different side of that person.
I don’t know the details of Danny’s case. I’m sure that he is an abhorrent human that deserves to be punished. I’m not trying to excuse what he did. I’m simply saying that if I were in Ashton’s shoes. I would have done the same thing.
That’s fine, but you shouldn’t run an anti sex-abuse organization if that’s what you’d do. I think ‘friends above all else’ is incompatible with seeking to help and protect victims of abuse, many of which will never get justice precisely because their rapist’s friends protected them.
I want you to know that I have typed out a response to you like 4 times. Every time it’s super long. This will be my attempt at condensing it.
As someone that was sexually abused as a child. I fully agree that you never truly know someone. That’s why you write a letter that says “I trust in the courts decision that my friend is guilty, but I never knew that side of them, and they will be missed”. Obviously that’s condensed down, but I think you get the point. You can say I love this person without absolving them of responsibility.
The reason I’m like this is because I was a heroin addict for years. All of my family, and most of my friends abandoned me. A select few friends and my partner came together and saved me. They gave me places to stay, and paid for and gave me rides to treatment.
Now, I am opiate free. I have kids, and I’m still alive. Hell, my best childhood friend died of a heroin overdose, and I adopted his kid.
My family abandoned me, but my friends didn’t.
To paraphrase Bud from Kill Bill. “I don’t dodge guilt, and I always pay my comeuppance.”
Anyway I’m falling asleep at the keyboard. So, I hope this all makes sense when you read it. I hope you have a good night.
Just read Ashton's letter. I thought it'd be way worse judging by some of the comments here, but it wasn't that bad actually. He didn't make excuses, just asked for leniency during sentencing. Also brought up a good point about Masterson's daughter being left without a dad.
Edit: Idk about Mila's letter though lol. It was awkwardly super focused on the drug-free stuff and no mention of the rapes.
The issue is he never wrote a single letter like that for all the people “his” charity put away. Infact he went so far as to say they deserve no leniency. I’m sure some of them had kids who will now also go without a parent.
Funny how he sung a different tune when he found out one of his best friends has been CONVICTED of raping two people.
Yeah, no. If my best friend, if my brother were convicted by a jury of their peers multiple times for forcibly raping women, I’m out. It doesn’t mean I’d lobby for the punishment to be harsher or anything, but like, they did it. The judge and jury heard all the evidence and testimony and determined he’s guilty. Keep in mind, he committed a pre-meditated crime that probably traumatized the poor victim. For life. Then he did it again.
AFTER knowing that, if you insert yourself into the Justice process and go out of your way to write a letter trying to use personal anecdotes/celebrity/money/fame/goodwill to enable them to get a lighter sentence… you’re a piece of shit. The innocent victims don’t have celebrities on their side putting their thumbs on the scale…
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
What about if your friend raped children? Would you still be ok with that? Or are you only OK with it if they rape adults? Just trying to work out exactly where people like you draw the line.
PS: You didn’t need to include the part about not having many friends, it’s heavily implied by the rest of your comment.
I’ve already said this several times. It’s not about being “ok” with any of it. What it is about, is just because someone does horrible doesn’t just erase years positive experiences. It’s ok to love someone from a distance.
Part 2 of your question is a straw man fallacy, and I’m not going to even going to entertain that question.
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
I’ve read and laughed at this three times already.
It sounds like you and your “friends” are terrible people. Stop getting arrested and apologising for rapists you sick fuck.
You know it’s possible for innocent people to get convicted right? I’m not saying it happened here but you are talking like our judicial system is infallible.
While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.
The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.
If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes
Yea, I get it, some will disagree but, in the end, I'm a bigger fan of "call out culture" than "cancel culture". The former gives the person a chance to course-correct.
But “cancel culture” makes keyboard warriors and the Twitterverse feel saintly, holier-than-thou and powerful because it takes just a few tweets to mess people up! And look righteous while doing it!
Maybe they are valuable members of society after all! /s
You gonna pin the tail on cancel culture and “The Twitterverse” for criminals like Jeffrey Epstein being outed too? Lmao you’re a joke. Masterson RAPED WOMEN, many more of them than the mere handful that were included in the case, i promise you. And his friends went out of their way to use their influence and names to sway a judge in his favor. That’s fucked up, and anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
I’m not talking about Masterson, Epstein and their crimes - I’m talking about Kutcher, who has done more to help anti-child trafficking than all you keyboard warriors put together. Guilt by association is not a thing, despite how much you get off on it and want to wish it into reality.
anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
Witch hunt 101, anyone? You’re so excited to judge, sentence and exert perverse power over another person’s life, you don’t even realize you are doing the exact same thing as history’s witch hunt instigators, under the guise of a modern, rebranded religion.
I think it’s fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That’s a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.
This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that’s a gigantic leap.
his true character
And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person’s character, a mistake presumably you’d never make?
I think it’s fair to judge
No, you think it’s fun to judge and it’s your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You’ve made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it “fair”?
His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.
“As it stands now, Brock’s life has been deeply altered forever by the events of Jan. 17th and 18th. He will never be his happy-go-lucky self with that easygoing personality and welcoming smile. His every waking minute is consumed with worry, anxiety, fear and depression,” Dan Turner wrote. “His life will never be the one that he dreamed about and worked so hard to achieve. That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20-plus years of life.”
While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.
The letters are typically asked for before conviction as a just-in-case. He’s still asking for leniency for his rapist buddy I just thought I’d clarify that little bit.
I don’t believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn’t get it, doesn’t make them monsters or rapists by proxy.
If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.
Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn’t all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.
Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our “justice,” lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people… that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee’s failure to confirm their biases.
Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn’t be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it’s convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.
Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However… the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That’s a bad fucking look. That’s a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he’s done look.
Or… we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don’t give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don’t need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.
Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?
So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!
Don’t be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution… AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse… I’d absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.
There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There’s zero chance that I’d do anything to “put in a good word” for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.
Tl;Dr: If you’re vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn’t being a duplicitous rapist… that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren’t raping. You’re also a victim.
I did no such thing. I know nothing about the case other than the accusation being strong enough that he was dropped from the Ranch and didn’t appear in that 90s Show. If there was physical evidence I don’t know how someone could think he didn’t do it and write these letters, even if they have been friends for 25 years. Only if there weren’t physical evidence could I fathom someone close to him like that believing that maybe he didn’t do it.
This is ridiculous. I assumed nothing. I asked a simple yes or no question, because I cannot fathom why they wrote these letters either. Commenting is a waste of time, no one is interested in conversation.
Wtf is up with Lemmy and people taking the time to reply to a comment without just answering a yes or no question? Is it the clientele? It’s like a damn Gentoo Linux forum where people put more effort ridiculing people than answering questions.
If they didn’t think he did it I could see writing these letters. If they think he did, I cannot fathom writing them. Does that make it clearer?
Masterson demonstrated no mercy in raping his victims.
Our society demonstrating no mercy to those our society failed, and we did at some point for most felons if not Masterson, just makes us another link in the chain of cruelty. Mercy should always be considered, at every step, especially if we as a society espouse to be better than those we prosecute.
Justice isn’t for pleasure, vengeance is. If you’re feeling good about anyone’s suffering, Masterson or his victims, that isn’t a sense of justice you’re feeling.
No, its compassionate, whether you agree its deserved or not.
Once again, a harsher punishment for the victimizer doesn’t equate to more compassion for the victim.
You can’t demonstrate compassion through cruelty. Reasonable punishment is justice, getting off on maximizing punishment is vengeance. Getting angry at a friend of the victimizer asking the judge to consider LESS THAN THE MAXIMUMUM CONCEIVABLE PUNISHMENT is literally getting mad at calls for mercy because it might have diminished your desire for maximum vengeance.
This is some I’m 16 and this is deep bullshit. The point is we have a process in place to convict and sentence people charged with crimes. Once he was found guilty do his friends need to abandon him? No. But do they need to actually have him show a change BEFORE they show “leniency”. Yes. Your whole argument is so dumb it borders if not crosses over into making you a rape apologist.
I consider our ENTIRE “justice” system to be archaic, regressive, punitive, pay to win, and unredeemable. It needs to be destroyed and rebuilt. We have no rehabilitation, more prisoners oer capita than any nation on Earth by a lot, even the ones we ironically make fun of for being authoritarian, and basically we expect to torture our way out of criminality.
I agree Masterson deserves no special treatment, but Americans deserve a benevolent justice system that seeks restorative justice, absolutely NOT making examples of people as we do all the time to cruel cheers.
You really want our courts to continue to appeal to fear rather than respect?
Did he get the death penalty? What are you proposing his sentence be then? Couple weeks and some knitting classes? Rehabilitation takes time, and I’m all for that. But that’s not what Ashton and Mila were asking for. They were asking for a lighter sentence because he’s a good guy. You aren’t even arguing about the original topic though so none of this is relevant anyways.
Are you trying to tell me that Society failed Danny Masterson? Do you proof read what you write? No. Society failed the women that he raped. Society fails the millions that will die of treatable disease this year. Society fails the single mother that has to work three jobs to support herself and her child. Society did not, I repeat, did not fail Danny Masterson. Society taught him that rape is bad. Danny decided to do it anyway. Danny failed society.
For just about any other crime I’d tend to agree with the sentiment, but for nearly any other crime I can come up with some hypothetical scenario where that crime is justifiable, where I can comprehend the reasoning behind the act.
I can’t come up with any hypothetical where rape or sexual assault is justifiable.
It’s never justifiable, agreed, but I disagree that it cannot be understood or that the victimizer deserves special worse punishment or consideration. Before we tested for people on the spectrum, people that legitimately lacked the capacity of impulse control were executed like anyone else. Now courts bicker about how low functioning you have to be for such things.
Some people are born very low functioning and never get diagnosed, or throttle that line, and weren’t raised well, etc. Americans in general often refuse to see such nuance in such cases. They prefer to imagine a fair black and white world where every rapist is some evil mastermind when often they aren’t in control of themselves any of the time. It’s not like our mental healthcare system is robust enough to identify and mitigate those issues for poor kids who need it.
I’m sure there are regular and high functioning rapists, like Weinstein and statutory rapists, but I rarely see a differentiation between those calculated actors and some barely sapient person with sporatic impulse control who really doesn’t have the capacity to empathize with their victim or consider the consequences, but squeaked by on the mental competence review. Those are worlds apart imho and should be treated as such.
Im just boggled at the mind at how concerned you are for the mechanics of rapists and how there’s something that makes them rape people and don’t seem to be at all concerned with the effects they have on those they raped.
I see this whole devils advocate thing and like whatever this is internet share your peace, but I just can’t understand how lacking empathy for the people you hurt in any way should lessen the consequences of the impact you cause. Context does not excuse consequences. I’m sure Masterson is sick in the head, you’d have to be to rape someone as maliciously, viciously, and violently as he did. I just hope you’re also out here advocating for more support to the victims who are now also sick from the trauma that was directly caused by this man’s actions.
Sure, let someone who according to you can’t control themselves back on the street and give him a lighter sentence. I’m sure he won’t go out and rape again since his lack of control apparently stops once he’s caught and convicted. We should just wait to see if he does it again and say “ooops, his bad let’s try another 5 years” to his next victim and send her off with hopefully a good ass therapist for the rest of her life since that’s how long the rape is going to affect her.
You talk about society lacking nuance but your nuance seems to extend only to the rapist and his buddies. They were not advocating for him to be rehabilitated. They were asking for him to get less time since “his daughter not having a father” would be an injustice. Sure, he’s been convicted of rape, but the injustice of the law here would be his daughter visiting him in jail where he’s not raping people. Now if Kutcher was like “he’s clearly sick, I hope you find an alternative to prison that helps rehabilitate him so he won’t harm others” I could see your point. That’s not what he said. That’s not what he was asking for. People are angry because it’s enraging to see celebrities and rich people get special treatment. Use each other’s fame to hurt others and escape consequences. Your worry about a lack of nunca is funnily enough so black and white in its arguments, you could say it in and of itself lacks nuance to how complicated the subject and ramifications of rape on a person actually are.
I think through introspection, education, and rehabilitation most criminals can work toward enlightenment and betterment. But sex offenders commit the most heinous of all crimes and deserve no extra consideration. They are blemishes in human evolution and are plagues on decency and humanity. At the absolute very best, they should be locked away from the rest of us
Except this isn’t about Masterson. This is about Kutcher’s support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that’s not a friend. That’s someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you’ve hidden that from me, I’m not going to tell a judge you’re an otherwise good person that shouldn’t be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.
If you really don’t believe that these are people that did something wrong, that they should be shunned for the rest of their days by every living being, where’s the virtue in even keeping a felon alive? Why don’t we just have a door to a firepit in every jury courtroom that opens upon a guilty Verdict? Why pretend to weigh punishment with mercy, but still set them up for failure in every possible way?
Honest question, do we want to be a benevolent society that sees a fallen member, and wants to help them reintegrate after their just punishment, or is mercy as a positive thing in our society as stone dead a concept as greed being a negative thing?
Ignoring the “Haven’t we already been hard enough on the rapist?” Choice:
I firmly believe in rehabilitation and am opposed to the death penalty for all but the most heinous of crimes.
But there has been no rehabilitation. This is someone who has spent the better part of two decades silencing his victims and running from his crime. And to come out and say “He deserves leniency” is REAL fucking stupid and, quite frankly, completely undermines any attempt to be seen as “one of the good ones” with respect to a sex abuse organization (and let’s not get into how said org mostly exists to hunt and punish sex workers).
I’m not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I’m just saying that we don’t need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren’t working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.
Is it really for an exception? Or just not making it any longer due to additional bad character traits?
My understanding is they look at the range of acceptable punishment, and then use these factors to determine where it should land. Providing a letter explaining his character would serve to put it on the lower end of it. It’s not so much an exception as it is just providing evidence for the court to make an informed decision for the range.
He didn’t get convicted of rape and being unlikeable. He was convicted of rape. The penalty being assessed is the penalty for rape. Whatever else he may have done, good or bad, he did the rape. He should pay the penalty for the rape that he did. If he collects money for disabled children on Sundays, he shouldn’t be punished less, he should pay the penalty for rape. If he’s a jerk who gets drunk on weeknights and starts his political opinions with “I’m not racist, but…” he shouldn’t be penalized additionally for that. He should be penalized for rape. This thing where we make room for “He’s a rapist, but…” is fucking garbage. It reeks of Brock Turner’s dad trying to reduce the lifetime of harm his son inflicted on a woman to “10 minutes of action”. If a rapist who operates a puppy rescue is less of a rapist than a rapist who does other things we all agree to be unpleasant then it’s not about the harm inflicted, it’s about how much we all generally like the rapist.
I agree with you in principle. But that isn’t how the judicial system works. Usually there’s a minimum, which is the actual punishment for the crime. Then there’s the maximum which is what they give you if you’re a repeat offender or they just generally think you’re an extra shitty person.
Given that, someone with otherwise good character is expected to get the minimum, which is the time for the crime without getting extra. In this case that minimum is 30 years.
But yeah, if you want to talk about how shit the judicial system is, I agree. I could go on about plea bargains, penalty ranges, etc being used as tools of oppression.
He’s a repeat offender. He was convicted on multiple counts. Strictly speaking, he’s not just a rapist, he’s a serial rapist.
But I do think we’d agree about plea bargains. They let the guilty off scot free and let the overworked, underfunded judicial system off the hook when it comes to innocent defendants.
Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn’t grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they’re free to do that. But disapproving of that isn’t guilt by association, that’s just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.
In other words, whether Ashton Kutcher is actually guilty of anything does not matter, because a “bad look” is like a virus, and conviction enough for people to feel justified in upending his life / work. So proud of this brave new neo-puritanical world we live in today. /s
You’re right, this kind of thing is nothing new. We’ve always been a society which will turn on a dime on anyone, no matter how good or poor the excuse, if given a good pretext to do so. It seems to be human nature.
Never give up a free chance to step on another human being to make oneself feel taller. Give them a few kicks while they are down for good measures. All made extra easy by the internet and cancel culture!
Unfortunately, it doesnt matter how much good you’ve done. People love witch hunts. Whether this is his worst decision or not, it’s one decision, now the rest are erased.
He’s done good and would continue to, but people are happier if he is never heard from again rather than him helping kids for the rest of his life.
Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.
That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren’t good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.
It’s not the “defending their friend” thing people are upset with, I think you know that. Using reductionism to try and make people you disagree with look like they’re sticks in the mud “for just defending their friend!” instead just makes you look deranged for apparently glossing over or completely not caring about the “leniency for rapists” bit.
Well, it is not as much as a “non profit fighting human trafficking” as they sell it. It is a tech org that sells facial recognition technology to law enforcement, that doesn’t really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.
It is what happens when tech Bros want to try and save the world without really listening to the vulnerable people they are trying to “help”.
Now his hypocrisy was exposed for defending a convicted rapist because “he was nice to me” no shit Ashton, im sure Epstein was also nice to his friends.
The reason Epstein was undetected or untouched was because he was nice. Getting along means not getting caught. Now that doesn’t mean that everyone nice is up to something, but it means it is a reason he was able to infiltrate so many upper crust circles.
What it is just used for prosecuting adult non-trafficed sex workers?? That’s such a ridiculous perversion of the original mission statement, what a piece of shit. “Helping” sex workers by making them go to prison lol, which is the same way police “help” people with substance abuse problems. He was also an investor in Uber so it’s adds up that he only cares for making money.
I always thought Masterson seemed like a creep, so I didn’t pay much attention to this case when I heard about it.
Just read the article and another one it linked to regarding sentencing. It sounds like most of the jury voted for acquittal but it wasn’t unanimous so the judge declared a mistrial and then retried him.
Anyone know how this isn’t considered double-jeopardy? It sounds like the very definition of it to me. He was put on trial. The prosecutor was unable to secure a conviction, so the judge gave them another chance?
But weeks after the trial finally started in late 2022, the judge declared a mistrial after the jury remained deadlocked. Jurors in last year’s case had leaned in favor of acquittal on all three counts against him – voting 10-2 on one count, 8-4 on another and 7-5 on the third, but were unable to reach a unanimous decision, leading to the mistrial.
US Fifth Amendment excerpt:
nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb
That’s how a jury trial works. You need all 12 to agree, otherwise it is a hung jury and declared a mistrial. It is then up to the prosecutor to retry the case if they want to.
It isn’t double jeopardy because the trial didn’t come to a decision. If all 12 jury members agreed, one way or another, that is the end of it. At least for that/those counts.
A split decision sounds like a decision to me. The prosecutor failed to convince a jury of the defendant’s guilt. I wonder how many times someone can be tried as long as the prosecutor is able to seat at least one sympathetic juror.
I could understand retrying the case if it was found out one of the jury was on the take, but this sounds exactly like the kind of thing the 5th amendment is supposed to stop.
Oh, we didn’t pick a good enough jury to convict him this time. Let’s try again.
That makes sense, but the 5th amendment doesn’t mention conviction or acquittal.
Seems plain and clear that a retrial is being put in jeopardy a second time. Even my former justification of jury tampering doesn’t seem to hold up to that measure.
People are complicated. We can say he did good things for kids while also doing bad things like defending Masterson. We can admit it must be hard for him to condemn his friend while also still saying he still needed to.
People can do both good and bad things, we can say the good things he did are good while also saying he shouldn’t have done bad things.
I mean I feel one thing overweights the other… Like it was a fucking piece of paper…yeah he shouldn’t have done it. But I feel like whatever the org did matter more that a stupid written paper.
The org you speak of has lobbied heavily against end to end encryped communication. Their efforts are much more anti sex work than actual human trafficking and they sell tracking tools to police.
Exactly this. There was some good coverage in the German podcast Logbuch Netzpolitik. Ashton is also involved in companies selling software to “solve” the CSAM issue with methods the scientific community says will not solve it and most likely will make everything worse, not only in the topic but also others like privacy overall.
Whether you like it or not Kutchers childrens charities do in fact help kids. Their software helps identify children who are being abused online and also help create tools to detect and block CSAM. But don’t take my word for it, here’s their 2022 impact report. www.thorn.org/impact-report-2022/
So yes. Turns out he’s not literal Satan and he has done good things and bad.
Quite the claim to not post any evidence of outside of a letter written to the judge from a friend which might stop his friend from spending the rest of his life rotting in jail instead of getting rehab like the rest of the world does
It occurs to me that Kutcher and co might not have had access to the court proceedings, testimony, and evidence, but might have had a lot of access to Masterton’s side of the story.
It also occurs to me that being friends with people is complicated and that bad people emotionally loan shark a lot - maybe they felt obligated to send letters of support because they were being guilt tripped about all he’d done for them or because they think being a good friend is supporting no matter what (aka being an enabler).
All that said, Kutcher’s a grown up adult who should have been able to predict that supporting a sex abuser is going to conflict with being involved in an anti-sex abuse organization.
It is a pattern, he had done the same thing before.
From Wikipedia:
“In November 2011, Kutcher received heavy criticism for his tweet in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal, calling the firing of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno “in poor taste”. Kutcher subsequently turned over management of his Twitter account to his team at the Katalyst Media company.”
Edit:
The more I read his past I find more disturbing statement that shows red flags.
“Bixler and others have cited additional ways in which Kutcher showed questionable behavior in the past, specifically pointing to a 2003 video of the actor speaking on his MTV show “Punk’d” about actress Hilary Duff. In the video, Kutcher says Duff, who was a minor at the time, is “one of the girls that we’re all waiting for to turn 18. Along with the Olsen twins.””
Back then, that was a pretty damn normal thing for people to say. It’s really awful that that it was so normal, but hopefully most people regret saying things like that now.
It was not normal for a lot of people. But those people were silenced. I’m kinda tired that people are using era as an excuse. What it was is a strong, few influencers allowed assholes to fly their asshole flag out in the open. They encouraged it. It was called edgy. It was called bold. It was called confidence. It was called a lot of things that were all considered positive attributes. Even funny. And a lot of that is how the media back then promoted ideas.
Meanwhile the people who weren’t assholes were called ‘pussies’ by the assholes. In todays world, the ‘pussies’ of yesterday are what we consider normal people today. The people who were stomped on, shut up and quiet. Now that they are allowed to freely fly their ‘we don’t have to shit on others’ flag,
we’re assuming way many people changed. When it’s really just a tip of the balance on who’s collective ideas are more fit for the current time.
We still have the assholes of yesteryear snowflaking they are the victims of the media and complaining about ‘PC’ and cancel culture, balking at the mere idea of consequence for words and actions. These people didn’t collectively change with the times. They’d crawl back to the yesteryear in a second to be celebrated as an asshole if they could.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people. But I have enough relatives who also complain about the change and mill on about the good ol days where they could silence everyone who they didn’t agree with/escape culpability.
don’t be fooled for a second that there isn’t still a lot of people who are assholes. We’re just celebrating a different set of rules now to ethically follow now since the metoo movement made its debut and the once quiet people are safer to speak up. Those quiet people aren’t silenced anymore. They just get called PC instead of pussy by the assholes now. That’s as far as the assholes have evolved in today’s world.
You must be some kind of mind reader because otherwise your post would just be a bunch of smug assumptions. It’s important to allow people to grow. If you only ever judge people by where they were at their worst, then no one will want to change and the only people you’ll judge to be good are the people you didn’t know about when they were at their worst.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people.
I’m somewhat familiar with the case as I follow an ex-scientologist dude on yt (youtube.com/@GrowingUpInScientology) who was present in the court and reported on all nuances. According to him, Kutcher knew about Masterson’s drugging raping habit, also personally knew one of the women named in the case that prosecuted him (she was also present when Kutcher, upon finding her murdered girlfriend, instead calling 911, called his agent and Masterson).
Said letter’s general purpose to the judge is to ask for a lighter sentence in light of the jury decision, and they try to make him look like the nicest person ever walked on earth, always respecting woman and against all drugs that quasi questions the sentence as is. They deserve the backlash.
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