Transgender Catholics say new Vatican document shows no understanding of their lives

Transgender Catholics — as well as a priest who welcomes them to his parish — expressed disappointment Monday with a new Vatican document rejecting the fundamental concept of changing one’s biological sex.

In essence, it was a restatement of longstanding Catholic teaching, but the dismay was heightened because recent moves by Pope Francis had encouraged some trans Catholics to hope the church might become more accepting.

The pope has welcomed a community of transgender women to his weekly general audiences. And last year, the Vatican said it’s permissible, under certain circumstances, for trans people to be baptized as Catholics and serve as godparents.

“A document like this is very hurtful to the larger LGBTQ+ community but especially to the trans community,” said Maxwell Kuzma, 32, a lifelong Catholic transgender man working as a film editor and writer in rural Ohio.

xkforce,

I will never understand how LGBTQIA people can remain religious after reading the bible. It literally tells people to stone you to death with big fucking rocks.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Or women picking and choosing what parts of the Old Testament to use as weapons against others

At least straight men could be argued to have self interest involved, but even then it’s absurd what rules it sets.

stanleytweedle,

I completely get how LGBTQ people are drawn to Jesus’ message of peace and forgiveness so I can see why they’d want to be included in ‘Christianity’, but I don’t get why they’d care about being Catholic.

If you’re raised Catholic and think that’s the only way into heaven and then find out that way doesn’t include you- maybe rethink the initial assumption.

Rykzon,

It’s pretty easy, they should just create some sort of conversion therapy, it’s not like you are born like that and there is 0 biological reason or proof for that sort of condition. I mean it’s pretty easy to choose any other spiritual outlet or meaning to life than religion.

Kraven_the_Hunter,

Alternate headline: “Transgender catholics show no understanding of their religion.”

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

But… they’re all in dresses all the time!

homesweethomeMrL,

To be fair (🎵to be faiiiiiiiiiirr . . ) Jesus never said anything about trans people, and the Talmud (which Jesus was ostensibly a big fan of) has eight - count 'em eight - specific genders already specified and ready to go.

So really it’s the Catholic Church who’s not understanding - very possibly intentionally. But there we go. SSDD.

FWIW I think Francis got a good old fashioned political situation handed to him and, for whatever it was worth to him, caved.

homesweethomeMrL,

Sauce

root_beer,

That seems like a pretty definitive mic drop on the matter

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

But they’re choosing to follow the Catholic Church by being Catholic, so the point still stands.

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Not to say that the life view of any ancient peoples are wholy applicable to modern life but holy shit based

Burn_The_Right,

“Trans Member of Conservative Group Shocked by Mistreatment of Trans People”

Retrograde,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

It would seem that the face eating leopards are very inclusive and will eat your face regardless of what you identify as

dogslayeggs,

I’m shocked, shocked I say, that the people who live in their own religious state that is walled off from the world and has been there for a thousand years don’t have an understanding of the lives of modern people.

RatBin,

Walled off…? You really need to see for yourself the true extent of the vatican kingdom, not counting its history and the meaning of it. I’ll go as far as saying that as long as there is a Catholic institution somewhere in the world, that is where the subtle power of the vatican goes.

homesweethomeMrL,

Very nice art though. Some of the best, really.

TK420,

Oh fuck the pope

gimpchrist,
@gimpchrist@lemmy.world avatar

Man… this is like a black person trying to be a legitimate member of the kkk… ‘…but I believe in most of the same things as you guys! Why do you guys want to lynch me too?! I’m so confused!!!’

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

You mean the Republican Party?

gimpchrist,
@gimpchrist@lemmy.world avatar

You mean the same fucking political party? They’re all the same… if it’s politics it’s the same… you did not make a point there. Republicans and Democrats are the same effin thing… be original.

homesweethomeMrL,

roflcopter

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Ahh gee, angry at everything. How original. Have fun with the results of your protest vote.

gimpchrist,
@gimpchrist@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not angry at everything I just know that both political parties are playing the same game and you’re not getting anywhere with either of them

tsonfeir,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

What aren’t you angry about

homesweethomeMrL,

Cookies

ImADifferentBird,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I know Dave Chapelle is a shithead now, but I can’t help but think of the Chapelle Show sketch about the blind black Klansman who doesn’t know he’s black.

homesweethomeMrL,

Dave’s not a shithead. Watch the specials. He doesn’t say any of the things he’s accused of - in context.

People who don’t watch the specials are who are up in arms about it. (not to make this a is-he-or-isn’t-he subthread)

gimpchrist,
@gimpchrist@lemmy.world avatar

I wanted to make this point but I’ve been ruthlessly downvoted and now I don’t want to talk at all on news posts haha so thanks for bringing that part up

mycathas9lives,
@mycathas9lives@mastodon.social avatar

@ImADifferentBird @gimpchrist

Kanye West is an openly black white supremacist and he is not the first. The first openly black white supremacist was a person named William Hannibal Thomas, who wrote The American Negro in 1901, a loathsome work that was so derogatory towards blacks that white supremacists of that time used his writings to support their claims about the inferiority of blacks.

ImADifferentBird,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Didn’t know about WH Thomas. History is full of strange people, I suppose.

Silentiea,
@Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean I guess the difference is that the stated goal of the KKK is white supremacy, while the stated goal of the Catholic Church certainly isn’t cis-hetero-normativity. That’s just a fun side product.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The Vatican document was compiled by a committee of celibate feudal lords wearing archaic robes and signed and endorsed by their celibate king, wearing his silly hat in his magnificent palace, and declaring it all to be the direct word of their god.

I don’t think they understand anyone’s lives.

Have you seen who guards the Pope? These are not people who live in the real world.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/37fc19f0-b72b-47c3-a792-f80849d8bf39.png

strawberry,

lmao that is a group of the goofiest looking people I have ever seen

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Goofy, but they train with small arms. To be fair, they do dress in plain clothes when outside the Vatican, but it still shows how divorced from everything they all are, because a lot of the church hierarchy in the Vatican stay there for life.

BakerBagel,

I do kinda wish that any military groups keep the same style of dress uniforms from when the regiment was created. The UK does this a little but it would be great seeing a hodgepodge of US regiments looking like Theodore Roosevelt’s Roughnecks next to guys in Civil War looking outfits and WWII kit. We still dress people in goofy robes for college and hugh school graduation, so why not the army?

strawberry,

surprising that they dont use swords

toastus,

You will be happy to hear they still use halberds instead.

Triteer,

Technically, I think they’re called voulges.

toastus,

I am by no means am expert.
I just went of this:

The halberd is still the ceremonial weapon of the Swiss Guard in the Vatican.

And I am pretty sure that in German they call the weapon of the Swiss Guard Hellebarde.

griD,

Took long enough for an Archer reference ITT. Thanks.

homesweethomeMrL,

Mmmm halberds. Slicey.

Iapar,

If a clowncar was a state…

Poayjay,

It’s weird seeing a picture of the pope where he doesn’t have the silliest hat.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This pope only wears a slightly silly hat.

crusa187,

lol this is an amazing picture, thank you

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

OH-EE-OH, YO-OH!

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/ed/7457259_4_l.jpg

whodatdair,

If someone told me this image was AI i would believe them

xkforce,

The man who is supposed to be closest to god needs guards to protect him and is driven around in a bullet proof popemobile.

Silentiea,
@Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

declaring it all to be the direct word of their god.

I’m not going to try to defend this any further than to say they’re not claiming it’s the “direct word of god” or anything. They claim it’s their interpretation, and that their interpretation is definitely right, which is probably worse.

lemmy_get_my_coat,

“I never thought the leopards would eat my face!”

candybrie,

Ah yeah, the trans community. Totally didn’t already know they were generally not accepted by Abrahamic religions. Weren’t just given a tiny glimmer of hope to desperately hang on to that they might be accepted. Also are Catholic because Catholicism hurts the right people.

LillyPip, (edited )

Religion is a helluva drug.

urist,
@urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

…don’t you think this is a little dismissive? Maybe I’m wrong but most people are catholic because they were raised that way.

It sure would suck if something I had no control over excluded me from my own culture/religion/family. In fact, if I found myself in that situation, the right thing to do would be to make changes, if I could, for other people like me and those people’s families.

By the way, I do think religion as an institution sucks. But, I don’t think these people are supporting face-eating leopards. These people live in the jungle already, their choice is to leave or fight leopards.

xkforce,

“I was raised that way” is an excuse that holds no water. Trans people were raised to believe that they were their sex assigned at birth and they came to the conclusion that that didnt fit them. They can re-evaluate other beliefs just the same.

Traister101,

They were born into a family who supports face eating leopards. That sucks! But now as an adult they’ve continued to support the face eating leopards. Sure being indoctrinated into a religion is a tough thing to break out of… but when you are being attacked by the very people who indoctrinated you it should rapidly become obvious they don’t have your best interest at heart.

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