It Will Be an Election Unlike Any We’ve Lived Through. Are the Democrats Prepared?

The animating concept behind the Trump campaign will be chaos. This is what history shows us fascists do when given the chance to participate in democratic political campaigns: They create chaos. They do it because chaos works to their advantage. They revel in it, because they can see how profoundly chaos unnerves democratic-republicans—everyone, that is, whether liberal or conservative, who believes in the basic idea of a representative government that is built around neutral rules. Fascism exists to pulverize neutral rules.

So they campaign with explicit intention to instill a sense of chaos. And then comes the topper: They have the audacity to insist that the only solution to the chaos—that they themselves have either grossly exaggerated or in some cases created!—is to vote for them: “You see, there is nothing but chaos afoot, and only we can restore order!”

eran_morad,

Whatever. I’m voting D no matter what, for every election, because republicans are disgusting traitor filth.

CaptDust, (edited )

Lol yeah I remember when I used to consider positions, evaluate the candidates, check historical records etc. GOP has made this very easy the last few years because “fuck women, gays, immigrants and the disabled. Science is fake, Jan 6 is fake, covid is fake, trump is a saint and the rich need more help”.

Wow what a winning platform. ☑️ D

GiddyGap,

I used to be an Independent voter. I’d consider reasonable Democrats and Republicans alike. No more. Dems down the ballot for me.

lir,

Too many people can’t bear conscience for voting for someone actively abetting a genocide. A lot are boting 3rd party this year, so the vote’s split

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

With donnie in power, we may very well have genocide in our borders.

brain_in_a_box,

Remind yourself that a genocide isn’t less awful because you’re doing it to foreigners.

dojan,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

I think the logic here is that Biden, while endorsing genocide outside of the U.S., isn’t causing it inside of the borders. With Trump you’d have it both outside and inside.

Ergo, they see the choice as less genocide or more genocide. Both terrible but why choose more over less?

I_Fart_Glitter,

Blessed be the day we can vote for no genocide.

brain_in_a_box,

I think you’re being overly charitable.

banneryear1868,

Uhh have you seen your borders the last… America’s entire history

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, I didn’t word that very well. I mean within our borders. The extremists on the right wing get tingly in their swimming suit areas over the idea of killing their fellow citizens, and over stupid shit like not being sufficiently deferential to their Orange Jesus (OJ), being POC, gay, an uppity woman or liberal, and so on.

I’m assuming they are a fringe, but this kind of terrorism on a nation-state level does not require a majority. Not even all of the conservatives taken as a group are a majority. I suspect the teabaggers types are 30% or less of the population, and the ones that will gleefully cheer on/actively participate in genocide are probably less, but it’s still at a very scary point, since even 10% of them and having a government that backs them is a recipe for disaster.

Dagwood222,

It’s funny. It’s already election year and you can’t even name a 3rd Party candidate with any sort of shot. But yes, some perfect candidate will declare in late September, right?

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

The Green Party was an absurd joke even decades before Stein the Russian useful idiot came along…

I hate it, but there is just no viable third party choice for progressives in this country.

Dagwood222,

The choice is to find Dems like AOC and get them elected.

root_beer,

Cool. Vote third party. We’ll get Trump (or one of the other authoritarian dominionist clowns in the car), who will end up pushing for a nuclear attack on Gaza while dismantling every institution we have here, meager as they are, but people still need them. Then in 2028, don’t vote at all because you will probably lose your right to do so. At least you voted with your heart<3 though, so have a nice cup of tea and give yourself a hug.

We do not have a system in place where your idealistic protest can do anything other than make things worse. Fix the goddamn system, put people in power on a local level who have a chance, and work up from there. Fuck outta here with any Jill Stein horseshit.

banneryear1868, (edited )

Cool. Vote third party. We’ll get Trump

If not voting Biden is a vote for Trump, wouldn’t not voting Trump be a vote for Biden by the same logic? The logic only works if you assume all third party voters would be voting Democrat which isn’t the case.

root_beer,

You know what I’m talking about. Of course not all third party voters would vote for the Democratic candidate, but how many leftists would otherwise vote for the Republican? I reeeally doubt these people are stumping for the American Freedom or Constitution candidates.

banneryear1868,

Of course not all third party voters would vote for the Democratic candidate, but how many leftists would otherwise vote for the Republican

Trump arguably won in 2016 because of the 13% of Obama-Trump voters, Bernie-Trump supporters are also a thing, and not all Trump voters are politically engaged people as aren’t many Democrats, and only about 66% of eligible Americans voted, with lowest rates in the 50s-low 60s being red states. A third party wouldn’t necessarily only “steal” Democrat voters because this isn’t a closed system with one option. The logic I presented there is perfectly valid because not everyone is a leftist, for “not voting Biden is a vote for Trump” to work you have to ignore a bunch of voters and potential voters. It’s just something people say online for people to say “yes” to that has no relevance or impact on material politics at all.

root_beer, (edited )

I’m referring specifically to actual politically engaged people who refuse to vote for Biden because he isn’t progressive enough. Also, as I have not addressed it, I do get why they do refuse, as he would not be my first choice either, and I absolutely agree that Biden (and most democrats, tbh) needs to reach out to these voters because the base is more progressive than is reflected in their representation. I was aware of Bernie-Trump voters but, beyond their disdain for the establishment party politicians, I do not understand their motives; however, I will read up on it because it so baffles me.

I do hope that you’re right about this; being a mediocre white guy, I am not really in any danger of the fallout of a Trump presidency beyond what it would mean for all of us, but I don’t want to see more of what happened to marginalized people during his administration, as I fully expect things to be even worse if he gets in, just out of spite and due to redhats becoming even more deeply emboldened to act out. Not that they won’t act out otherwise, but I expect them to see themselves as self-appointed enforcers.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein,

If not voting Biden is a vote for Trump, wouldn’t not voting Trump be a vote for Biden by the same logic?

No, because you assume both sides are equally likely to switch their vote to third-parties. Right-wing voters are less susceptible to fits of conscience, and are much more reliable getting to the voting booths. They are more likely retirees, or zealous Fox News foot soldiers. The GOP knows this and that’s why mushy “both sides suck” third-party pushes disfavor democrats.

banneryear1868,

The lowest rates of voter turnout are actually in red states on average, which are 50s-low 60s, and Trump arguably won because of the 13% of Obama-Trump swing voters. Not all Trump voters are even politically engaged just like most Americans, some see the media and Democrats going crazy about him yet haven’t felt any impact of this on their daily lives so they don’t connect with the “vote for us because we’re not Trump” messaging at all. The most ignored group of Trump voters are people who just vote for him for some dumb superficial reason and don’t really care about politics, next to Obama-Trump swing voters.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein,

I hear your point, but I do think “Obama-Trump swing voters” is a defined group that is fun to talk about without any true diagnostic purpose. It captures too many different types of voters. They’re not all just those who change affiliation with the slightest breeze - many are probably people who went down alt-right rabbit holes between 2012 and 2016, or the cumulative effect of Fox News, or voters who more often vote against the incumbent party seeking “change,” and so on.

But also, even if the lowest rates of turnout is in red states, that doesn’t mean that in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc GOP voters will be more reliably good foot soldiers. Turnout naturally will trend lower where the votes in fact matter the least, I’m sure that’s true for both parties. The relevant metric is comparative voter turnout in swing states.

commie,

Vote third party. We’ll get Trump

i don’t think so. i voted for howie in 2020 and we got biden.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t consider myself a Democrat, but in this two-horse race, I vote Democrat because, as my father was fond of saying and said as far back as at least the Reagan era, “the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican.” Sad but true. I’d rather have a senate of Bob Menendezes and lose Susan Collins in the mix. Menendez is a corrupt bastard, but at least he votes as if he gives a shit about other people. Collins tries to sound reasonable and fair and then votes in lockstep with the rest of the Republicans most of the time anyway.

tacosanonymous,

Same but I primary whenever I can for candidates that even entertain being progressive. Anyone who want to stop the plutocracy, treat our planet like we need it, or will act with empathy.

Compactor9679,

Ready to steal it!!!

PeepinGoodArgs,

Democrats steal elections like I stole your mom’s heart. Republicans steal elections like an assassin steals someone’s life.

verdantbanana,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

vote biden because trump is a fascist

biden and obama chained a presidential candidate to chair for eight hours so she could not debate with the democrats and republicans

dailydot.com/…/jill-stein-2012-debate-arrest-hofs…

and now who you get to vote for will be decided by your state

During the campaign, Stein repeatedly said that there were no significant differences between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. She said, “Romney is a wolf in a wolf’s clothing, Obama is a wolf in a sheep’s clothing, but they both essentially have the same agenda.” She called both of them “Wall Street candidates” asking for “a mandate for four more years of corporate rule”.

how was she wrong

BoastfulDaedra,

I don’t know who newrepublic.com is, and I’m no fan of Israel and its homicidal reactionism right now, but if you think that there’s any chance at all that this is going to make me vote for a goddamn insurrectionist sociopath over the guy I occasionally have policy disagreements with, you are an absolute waste of oxygen.

PeepinGoodArgs,

Username check sout

HawlSera,

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: I’m prepared for the Republicans to do the most blatantly illegal and immoral thing to steal the election, for Democrats to wave their finger if they feel an “aww shucks” isn’t good enough, and for Democracy to die so Decorum may live… and for the Media to pretend it’s not happening while they parrot “BoTh SiDeS”, Comedians will call it as it is, but that’ll be the extent of it.

DaBabyAteMaDingo,

Please, for the love of God; if it’s a state where Biden is guaranteed, then vote third party or whatever alternative dumbass you want. If it’s a swing state, it’s your god damned duty to vote for Biden. I don’t like the AID he’s providing Israel but he’s not dropping the fucking bombs.

We don’t need to spit in the face of our constitution to prove a point. We don’t need to tank the work he’s done getting the country back on track so you can feel morally superior. We don’t need another bad year of COVID just because your friends are saying “Biden bad”. Your friends are retarded and so are you.

Normally I don’t give a shit what you liberal idiots do but this is seriously going to affect us in the real world. It’s not your reddit and lemmy echo chambers out here so please tighten the fuck up.

Or tell us of a viable, alternative candidate with over a 90% chance of winning. Oh you don’t have one? Then please shut the fuck up and vote Biden.

kzhe,

Agree basically but why use slur?

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s BIDENS BOMBS being dropped from BIDENS AIRPLANES. The fact that the pilot is israeli would only matter if Biden STOPPED SENDING THEM MORE BOMBS AND AIRPLANES.

Genocide Joe has got to go!

Witchfire,
@Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

Since you seem to love concern trolling, please explain why you’d prefer a literal xenophobic dictator who gets off to torturing minorities

Maggoty,

Checks news.

Biden sends Israel more bombs

No. No they are not.

mojofrododojo,

I love how it’s the dem’s responsibility to keep conservatives from destroying the country - oh wait, no, it’s been that way since bush ran the economy into the shitter, er, no, not that bush, the other bush & reagan. Somehow conservatives always present some kind of existential threat to the democracy that’s the left’s job to fix again and again.

PeepinGoodArgs,

It looks the same from the other side.

mojofrododojo,

did Clinton drive the economy into the shitter? Or Obama?

Pray tell how the country’s been left in crisis by dems. Did Carter wreck the economy just before Reagan took office?

explain.

PeepinGoodArgs,

I’m not saying the other side’s perspective is at all based on reality…it just looks the same, purely appearances because they’re…born vaginally.

trackcharlie,

If the democrats were prepared Biden wouldn’t be on the ballot

hansl,

He’s the incumbent. The last incumbents to not be reelected were Trump and HW Bush. Tell me again why Biden is unelectable.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

The last incumbents to not be reelected were Trump and HW Bush.

Funny that you didn’t mention Carter.

hansl,

Last 40 years not good enough? Even with Carter the odds are better for the incumbent.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Oh it’s not that, it’s just there is so few presidents that didn’t win their second election, and you listed all of them except one particular democrat, is all.

GladiusB,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

People don’t think he does enough. And “his son”. Basically it’s to just be edgy. Dude has taken a shit show and make it resemble an office again.

trackcharlie,

How about we get a president that isn’t over 70 and doesn’t require uppers to function, like biden, or literal adult diapers, like trump.

Both options are garbage and both men need to retire.

Maggoty,

Because Biden is a lot closer to HW Bush than he is to Obama. One of the reasons he got the nod in the first place was his promise not to run for re-election. And where we are now is why.

SwampYankee,

Biden specifically said he would not promise to serve one term.

Maggoty,

Oh bullshit he said that once while telling everyone around him that he was a one term president. And he continually referred to himself as a transition president or a stopgap bridge to the next generation.

The message was received by voters.

SwampYankee,

www.politico.com/news/…/biden-single-term-082129

Another top Biden adviser put it this way: “He’s going into this thinking, ‘I want to find a running mate I can turn things over to after four years but if that’s not possible or doesn’t happen then I’ll run for reelection.’ But he’s not going to publicly make a one term pledge.”

…

A top Biden adviser said Biden ruled out a one-term pledge when the issue was raised before he even entered the race. “He said it was a nonstarter,” the adviser said, adding that Biden believed it was a “gimmick.”

…

In April [2019], when asked whether he would serve just one term, Biden responded, “No.” More recently, Biden has been ambiguous. In October, The Associated Press reported that when “asked whether he would pledge to only serve one term if elected, Biden said he wouldn’t make such a promise but noted he wasn’t necessarily committed to seeking a second term if elected in 2020.”

Maggoty,

Even in your own quotes.

GaMEChld,

How common are faithless electors?

Buddahriffic,

How willing is the system to punish them? And if not the system, how willing are the people?

GaMEChld, (edited )

My question is a statistical inquiry. Your question is a bit more complex, I’m not even sure what that data would look like.

I was able to find this at least.

Maggoty,

Not very. The real problem is straight up fake electors. With the State Secretary office sending a legitimate group and the legislature sending another.

All they need to do is stall that process long enough to either toss the election into Congress or have SCOTUS illegally intervene again

GaMEChld,

The real problem is no one votes. It’s the bare minimum level of effort. It’s the participation trophy. They can do all that because we put them there with embarrassingly bad voter turnout. We spend more time complaining than actually voting.

All of those problems are the symptoms of an unrepresentative government, and a government tends to represent the people who vote for them. If no one votes, they’ll listen to the highest bidder.

salami0,

They are incompetent by design and by ignoring that means nothing will ever change for the better

hex_m_hell, (edited )

There is no saving America, there’s only buying time. Democrats can’t do what’s needed to prevent fascism because actually doing something about the Republican party would risk creating actual democracy. Prepare to fight fascism now because at best you’re buying yourself another 4 years. Vote, don’t vote, vote for a third party out of protest, whatever you do organize with other people and prepare for the worst.

In the best case, I’m wrong and you’ve made new friends. But if you don’t organize now it will be too late to organize in the worst case.

TheObviousSolution,

The electoral system in the US has been going increasingly downhill.

huquad,

I really wish Biden would step down. I’d love a better option from the Dems. That said, no way in hell am I voting for Trump.

rckclmbr,

Biden is safe, and honestly the best frontrunner we have.

huquad,

I disagree. An 80 year old is not the best option we have.

Lynthe,

Certainly the best option who’s running though

dojan,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

Gods know I’m not ready for another American election.

PeepinGoodArgs,

You and me, both.

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