Biden slams Trump as ‘willing to sacrifice democracy’ in Jan 6 anniversary speech

Mr Biden’s speech is his first major campaign event of the 2024 election season

President Joe Biden marked the third anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol by warning that the issue of American democracy will be “what the 2024 election is all about,” as he runs against former president Donald Trump once more.

Mr Biden, who spoke near the Valley Forge historical site where George Washington and the Continental Army were encamped during the winter of 1777 and 1778, told attendees that they were there “to answer the most important of questions: Is democracy still America’s sacred cause?”

“This isn’t rhetorical, academic, or hypothetical. Whether democracy is still America’s sacred cause is the most urgent question of our time,” he said.

Mr Biden said his speech, his first major event of the 2024 election season, was “deadly serious,” and about a topic that needed to be raised at the outset of his campaign.

Binzy_Boi,

Rings really hollow when the Democratic primaries are being cancelled in states like Florida where the Democrats are literally rigging their own elections to favour Biden.

anthoniix,

You know the political parties are private organizations, right?

Binzy_Boi,

And? If Biden really cared about democracy as much as he says, then he’d come out against what’s happening in Florida and North Carolina even though the moves benefit him. Him not calling out the bs in his own party when there’s three other people running for the spot if you include Cenk Uygur makes this message of “I will uphold democracy” ring really hollow.

Private organizations or not, these are people who have spent the time, effort, and campaign funds to have a shot at being the Democratic nominee, and all this election has shown to date with nonsense like this is that there needs to be massive reforms to both the electoral process and how the media covers it. Williamson was polling about the same numbers on the Democratic side as Haley has been with Republicans, and she’s been getting zilch from the media in comparison despite the fact that Biden isn’t even on the New Hampshire ballot (which that in itself, is an issue).

randon31415,

Trumps as cold as ice

He is willing to sacrifice our democracy

You want paradise

But someday he’ll pay the price, I know

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds like the political version of a Foreigner song.

Blackmist,

Does he think Trump’s followers don’t know that?

They want that.

Quadhammer,

No one ever accused them of being smart

MuuuaadDib,

Sir, as long as you sit idly by and do nothing, and worse arm and fund the killing of innocent civilians and veto cease-fire attempts you are a piece of shit.

rab,

Posting articles with the word “slam” in headline should result in a permanent ban

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Writers of articles generally don’t write headlines and people who share them are supposed to post the headline as-is. It’s not worth ignoring an article solely because an editor wrote a clickbait headline.

rab,

I was just making a joke, I know I can just filter that word out of my feed, your replies are always so dead serious lol

z3rOR0ne,
@z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml avatar

When Biden wins, who’s betting we’ll see Trump on the ballot again in 2028? And if not, in 2032? And so on, and so on…and if not him one of his kids…and if not them someone far more insidious and intelligent than them all…this is only the beginning. Trump is just the tip of evil rearing its horrific head.

meleecrits,
@meleecrits@lemmy.world avatar

What frightens me: who is going to be the next Trump? Let’s face it, there will likely be another Republican president at some point. Our election system almost guarantees it. Will they do the decent thing and try to work towards the betterment of the country, or will they continue their predecessors’ path towards dictatorship? The other front-runners don’t inspire much confidence in the former (exception: maybe Christie, but there’s virtually no way he’ll win).

Nearly every Republican that voted to impeach Trump lost their primary vote, so I only see them going further right, and a lot of people seem to be okay with this.

SpaceCowboy,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Republican politicians only care about winning. If Trump fails yet again, they will change their strategy. The right wing base are mostly subservient people so they’ll fall in line.

Fascist movements oftentimes fizzle out. There’s generally a cult of personality involved with these movements, and when the leader dies it tends to fade away. Trump isn’t young nor is he healthy, it’s very unlikely he’ll live to 2028. Same goes for a lot of his supporters in the boomer generation.

Sure there is a good number of fashy types in the younger generations but not enough to win an election.

Most important thing is that young people go out and vote in this election.

subspaceinterferents,
@subspaceinterferents@lemmy.world avatar

Please stop conflating Boomers with Trump. I’m def a Boomer and I hate the guy. Also check out the faces in the 1/6 crowd; plenty of younger types there…

SpaceCowboy,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s cool, but the data says 53% of boomers voted Trump last election. The majority of voters of younger generations voted Biden.

If it makes you feel better, 66% of the silent generation voted for Trump. Of course the logic that they are dying off applies to them even more so than with boomers.

And yes, this is all about the margins, but that’s just how elections go.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein,

53% is not insignificant, but it’s not in “let’s generalize the generation” territory. (Not saying that you intended to do that, but that may be the appearance.)

Note this terrifying poll recently that shows Trump beating Biden 37% to 33% in under-35s: theguardian.com/…/trump-biden-latino-voters-poll

It’s one poll and likely overstating Trump support in the general, but it’s absolutely shocking to me for Trump to be leading any poll any time in that age group. My assumptions would have been Biden up 20+ points for that demographic. But propaganda works, and people’s capacity to forget in 2024 seems rivaled only by their capacity to not pay attention in the first place. We need to seriously consider that reliable demographic assumptions are breaking down in the worst ways possible.

wolfshadowheart,

Just for a potential acquiesce, most young people conflate conservative/boomers to the mindset, not the age range. It doesn’t matter if genx is conservative, they’re boomers. It’s an unfortunate conflation but it’s the reality given that such a high percentage of people hold those politics.

It is funny, since the boomers were also the hippie flower generation. Which is why it’s sad that so many are also simping for fascism.

Commiunism,

If it’s someone like Mike Johnson then people are going to become nostalgic for Trump lmao

theangryseal,

We’re living in a time when creating extremists is too easy. People used to have to stand in little rooms full of disgruntled people and yell into a microphone. They had to organize and create newspapers and pamphlets. They had to have money to spread their message. They had to lose money to spread their message in hopes of taking power. It took years to rile up enough people to create problems.

Now, any dangerous person has the ability to reach an audience with ease.

It has gotten so bad that even people who aren’t even remotely connected to the internet are extremists. Pawpaw with his flip phone stands at the gas station being radicalized by his old work buddy.

I actually feel like I have to just have faith that everything will work out and our system can save itself.

I hope we don’t end up having to rebuild it all one day with some big nasty lesson we learn and then forget again.

ickplant,
@ickplant@lemmy.world avatar

There are no other front runners. They are all polling double digits behind Trump.

meleecrits,
@meleecrits@lemmy.world avatar

True. He will win the primary. I’m saying that everyone, but Steve Christie, is more than happy to continue down the path Trump started. This is a trend I doubt will change after Trump is gone.

Bz2486,

Steve?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/873dac19-a64f-48b2-ba4c-5fe9540eaab9.png

BackOnMyBS,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

short for Stevetopher

31337,

I wouldn’t be too sure Biden will win. Trump appears to be beating Biden in the polls at the moment.

31337,

Hmm, I don’t understand why my upvote/downivote ratio was so low on this comment: …fivethirtyeight.com/…/president-general/

Pratai,

Never before has a president been more right.

MotoAsh,

No, he’s actually off base and being a complete dumbass. Trump IS NOT “willing to sacrifice” democracy. He’s actively fighting against it. He actively wants to tear up the constitution. He is an active enemy of the country.

Biden still does not realize the threat he is ignoring. He still has no idea HE is supposed to DEFEND democracy, not just talk about it like a proud father. Democrats are truly pathetic and incapable of standing up to fascists. His tepid words reinforce that point.

SpaceCowboy,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I think Biden understands the threat of Trump, but he also understands that screaming at people isn’t going to be effective at convincing them.

There’s probably a lot of people that would reject the statement of “TRUMP IS TRYING TO DESTROY DEMOCRACY!” but may be receptive to the message that Trump is “willing to sacrifice democracy.” And yeah, anyone that doesn’t already understand what Trump is trying to is an idiot, but Biden needs idiots to vote for him just as much as the people that understand the consequences of another Trump Presidency. But Biden already has the votes from the people that understand the threat Trump poses.

MotoAsh,

He shouldn’t be yelling at anyone. He should’ve been quietly working behind the scenes to get the FBI rolling on all investigations and gotten his piece of shit AG to get the ball rolling, too. Instead, the FBI sat on its ass allowing investigations to sit undone and Trump kept merrily showing off top secret docs…

Trump IS an exception. There IS NO PRECIDENT TO SET by prosecuting him properly. Criminals should not be treated special just because they were a politician. That is beyond pathetic of any country.

We literally mock other countries that do this kind of pussyfooting double standard shit.

SpaceCowboy,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Trump is currently being prosecuted in two federal cases. What do you want? For him to be prosecuted without a trial?

MotoAsh,

For this shit show tp have gotten started ASAP. It’s not like it was unclear on Jan 6th what was happening. The fact he’s still LITERALLY FREE three years later is fucking hilarious to defend regardless of what lazy pathetic atfemp has been made.

There is no precedent to set. A fucking criminal already cannot be the president.

The Democrats treating the rise of fascism as if it isn’t a blatant affront to the constitution itself is fucking pathetic. This country is pathetic when the enemy has white skin and citizenship. There’s zero hezitation with any other citizen.

Pratai,

bOtH siDeS!

lennybird,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

1/6 - Never Forget.

This is the consequence of putting conservatives in power.

Telorand,

Not only that, but if they get in power again, there won’t be a “next time.”

Project 2025 - Never Forget.

lennybird,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Indeed, Hitler’s first coup failed as well.

Massive efforts deprogramming cultist behavior needs to be priority. How does one get through to these people, or do you just write them off as broken and focus on those you can save or still on the fence? (we know this is the strategy of the Right, after all).

Telorand,

How does one get through to these people, or do you just write them off as broken and focus on those you can save or still on the fence?

The only tactic I’m familiar with that can actually get through to the self-centered conservatives is called Deep Canvasing, and it’s quite effective.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_canvassing

cecinestpasunbot,

Unfortunately in the US deep canvassing is not a viable strategy for most political campaigns since it’s too resource intensive. It’s far more effective to canvass as way of identifying likely voters. Then you can make sure they vote when the time comes.

Telorand,

I can’t say for sure if it’s viable at scale or not. I can say with certainty that it was a big part of why California finally approved same-sex marriage in the early 2000s.

You don’t have to convince everybody, just enough to tip the scales in your favor.

cecinestpasunbot,

I think you might have your history mixed up. The courts legalized same sex marriage in California in 2008 but it was banned again after proposition 8 was passed by voters. It’s possible deep canvassing was used in the campaign against proposition 8. However, it certainly didn’t tip the scales. Same sex marriage only became legal again in 2013 thanks to a different court case that invalidated the proposition.

That said, I do think there are contexts where deep canvassing may be effective. For example, similar methods are an essential part of labor organizing. Progressive causes are just too resource poor in the US to use such methods at scale.

Telorand,

Thanks! I read about it in the book How Minds Change sometime last year, so I probably got some of those details a bit mixed up.

cecinestpasunbot,

Unfortunately, that’s not how it played out. California residents actually voted for proposition 8 which banned same sex marriage. It wasn’t until a court case invalidated said proposition that same sex marriage became legal.

LillyPip,

That’s great, but like many other efforts, it’s only really effective face-to-face, one at a time. There are millions of these people who have been mass-brainwashed by media targeting them in the hundreds of thousands.

We need to combat that with similar efforts, or we’ll all be dead before it works.

What we really need is for anti-cult psychology experts to team up with viral video producers to make loads of deprogramming content that will actually pierce the snowglobes. And we need it yesterday.

Coasting0942,

God damn did they setup that name for Fox News to scream it 24/7.

Beware the extended conversation with the communist, the colored, and the witch!

RecursiveParadox,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

Had not heard of this technique being applied outside qualitative research (although its goal is the opposite of qualitative research, the methods are near identical). Thanks for introducing me to this.

Now. We just need to find one, just one billionaire on our side to fund it.

loutr,
@loutr@sh.itjust.works avatar

What a weird choice of words. It’s like saying “I’m willing to sacrifice this mosquito who’s been pissing me off for the past hour”.

maynarkh,

Is democracy still America’s sacred cause?

With one of the shittier implementations of it in the world, I think it’s not. Capitalism seems more sacred to the US, anyway. In a truly democratic system, the US would have a decent and cheaper healthcare system, a sensible way to report taxes, a political class actually responsible to the people, no “political dynasties” etc.

Also, Biden wouldn’t be president, or at least he couldn’t campaign as a protest candidate against Trump.

Trump is not “willing to sacrifice democracy”. He’s actively fighting against it. The guy is not behaving like “democracy is important, but me being president is importanter”, he’s going “I lost because of democracy, so let’s get rid of it”.

nbafantest, (edited )

American healthcare system is very good and affordable for a large majority of Americans. Sure it sucks if you’re poor, but most Americans are not poor.

Taxes are not that hard to do. The vast majority of people get a single income statement from an employer and use the standard deduction. Could it be better? Sure but it’s not bad for most people.

maynarkh,

You can always say, “it’s not that bad” but what I’m saying is that it’s worse than in much of the world.

In the places I’ve lived, if I got sick, especially if I got a long-term sickness, I am not just not paying for it, I get money from my insurance, so my life doesn’t go to shit because I can’t work. And the healthcare systems here are cheaper. My insurance costs around a grand a month, and there are no copays, maximums, deductibles or other bullshit. I am not bearing the risk of me falling ill. And it costs the state less than the US is paying for what they have, both per capita and in total.

And with taxes. I haven’t done my taxes ever. I get a mail saying that my taxes have been done for the year, and I should check it out, I usually have a look if I don’t forget. It is also a cheaper system on both my side and the state’s.

nbafantest,

Do you think that means we are not in a democracy?

maynarkh,

Why would I? It’s also a stupid and loaded question. Where is the limit for what is a democracy? Sone people may say Russia is a democracy because there are elections. Some other people might say there are no true democracies besides Switzerland with its very common direct votes on issues.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

American healthcare system is very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans. Sure it sucks if you’re poor, but most Americans are not poor.

Taxes are not that hard to do. The vast majority of people get a single income statement from an employer and use the standard deduction. Could it be better? Sure but it’s not bad for most people.

This is just...

My god dude. Try living in another country for a while. You're speaking like an abuse victim who keeps defending their abuser. The US's societal infrastructure, including health care and taxation, are 50 years behind the rest of the developed world. Americans pay top-tier costs for bottom-tier society.

"Sure it sucks if you're poor" is the kinder sibling of saying "Got mine, fuck you!" Being poor sucks everywhere, just by nature, but the entire point of societal programs is to uplift the poorest and make it suck less, not to give handouts to the rich so they can say "Well geez, at least I'm not poor!"

nbafantest,

“Sure it sucks if you’re poor” is the kinder sibling of saying “Got mine, fuck you!”

Yes it does suck. I didn’t say it was perfect, or that I was a fan.

But our healthcare system works very well for most people. Acting like it doesn’t work for some people is just ridiculous.

StopSpazzing,
@StopSpazzing@lemmy.world avatar

IDK if this guy is a troll or has never been poor.

nbafantest,

I have been very poor. Idk why you guys keep harping on being poor. Most Americans are not poor.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

Acting like it doesn’t work for some people is just ridiculous.

I'll just say it again and leave it at that: you need to spend some time in other countries. Not at a tourist, but as a resident. Your eyes need to be opened.

nbafantest,

I have better healthcare than people in the countries I have visited.

This sentence is not accurate for all Americans.

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

Right. And you are only looking at things vs how they compare specifically to you. Thus, your eyes need to be opened.

nbafantest,

Do you think youve in anyway shown we don’t live in a democracy?

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

I think you're replying to the wrong person.

nbafantest,

I’m pretty sure I’m not. I followed the thread. Maybe you are

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

shrug Alright then...

nbafantest,

I’m still not convinced that “our healthcare could be better for a minority of people, so we obviously aren’t in a democracy”

osarusan,
osarusan avatar

I still think you're replying to the wrong person.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The KFF Health Care Debt Survey finds that 41% of adults currently have some debt caused by medical or dental bills.

kff.org/…/kff-health-care-debt-survey-main-findin…

So sure, ‘most’ in the technical sense in that more people are not under medical debt than are. But ‘works’ is questionable even for those who aren’t.

nbafantest,

“In a truly democratic system, the US would have a decent and cheaper healthcare system”

I was responding to the OP.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We’re not poor. We’re also over $10,000 in medical debt. Anyone can get sick. Sometimes very sick. Even if you say you have a good immune system because you exercise and take care of yourself.

And before you say it, we have good insurance.

nbafantest,

I didn’t say people don’t get sick or don’t have medical debt

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You said it is “very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans.” I already showed you elsewhere that over 40% of Americans have medical debt. How is a system where 4 out of 10 people go into debt just to get the care they need “very good” or “affordable?”

nbafantest,

In a democracy which of those groups would win an election?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You didn’t answer my question: How is a system where 4 out of 10 people go into debt just to get the care they need “very good” or “affordable?”

nbafantest,

“very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans”

It’s good for the 6 in 10.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You have a very odd definition of ‘vast majority.’

nbafantest,

60 to 40? you think so? lol

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I doubt most people would consider a bit more than half to be ‘vast majority,’ but you do you.

nbafantest,

Fine ill edit my comment to a sizable majority? 60% majority?

Arthur_Leywin,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Mouselemming,

    Marianne Williamson ought to run in the Republican primary.

    She’s got no less chance of winning.

    There’s no such thing as a definition of Republican anymore, so she might as well widen it further and in better directions.

    There’s plenty of people there who need to hear the more sensible parts of her message, and even more crazy ones who will be attracted to the loonier parts.

    crsu,
    @crsu@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes let’s blame the virtually powerless person no one knows the name of for undermining our democracy and not aging career politicians who have done nothing except enrich themselves through insider trading and backroom deals

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    “democracy” was never americas “sacred cause”, you’re thinking of stealing land from indigenous people. I don’t think that’s going to stop even if we elect the red maga instead of the blue maga.

    Shalakushka,
    Shalakushka avatar

    Yes, all politicians are exactly the same and you are such a special snowflake for seeing through the illusion, you very smart heckin valid person.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Wow maybe we should get rid of all of them and make a new government with some popular legitimacy. Oh you were being sarcastic because you support one of the genocide teams, have fun with your star wars or whatever lol.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Okay. You get that started. What do we do? I assume you will be taking the leadership role and we will see you on the front lines.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    My plan is we elect Joe Biden, he provokes world war 3 while maintaining a peacetime economy, the economy collapses, biden loses to trump (who then dies of Ozempic side effects) and a civil war is fought by patriots attempting to get his running mate George Santos into the white house. The survivors get to fight in the water wars 20 years later.

    The rest of the world moves on and tries to forget the nightmare that was America.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Remember how in the other comment you claimed I was insulting you when I said you didn’t care if a bunch of people died?

    Yeah…

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Uh, I think it was the abelism I was finding insulting

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Narcissism is not a disability, it is a mental illness. There is a difference. Disabilities mean there are things in normal society you are not able to do without assistance. Narcissists don’t have that problem.

    So no, I was not being ableist. I didn’t even say you were a narcissist.

    But I’m glad we have you pegged down for “enjoying masses of innocent people dying.” That means you’ve lost every argument by being as bad as anyone genocidal yourself. Thanks for that!

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s so funny how you can be such a fervent supporter of people genociding Palestinians, right now, and still feel so righteous calling your straw political enemies genocidal.

    I don’t enjoy seeing masses of people dying that’s why I’m so pissed off at America in the first place.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Please quote me supporting the genocide of Palestinians. Or was that a lie?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re replying to me buttmad in a thread where I’m shitting on the democrats for their support of genocide. Do you support the Democrats?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not going to answer your questions until you show me evidence to support your claim. Unless you admit you were lying.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s okay I can read I know you do, that’s why I’m putting every fucking dead Palestinian at their feet in November.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Got it. You were lying. Any reason I shouldn’t flag you as a troll?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I was not lying at all, your behavior makes me sick.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    If you were not lying, you can quote me.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    My dad used to say, even back into the Reagan era, “even the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican.” Meaning that even the Democrats that were totally corrupt pieces of shit would at least be more likely to move the country further to the left and no Republican ever would.

    And that’s still true. I’d like to see Bob Menendez thrown out on his ass, but I’ll take another 49 of him over one more Susan Collins because at least Menendez votes like he gives a shit

    Sounds like you support the Democrats

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nope. I support, as I said there, whoever will move the country further to the left and is likely to get elected.

    I do not support political parties nor am I registered to one.

    Still waiting for you to prove I support Palestinian genocide.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Are you trying to say you could be convinced to vote for republicans if you could 4d chess yourself into thinking they would move things left?

    That’s honestly a bizarre position to have but ok.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re just accusing me of having a mental illness as if that would invalidate any argument I have- which I’m pretty sure is just ad hominin.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No, I did not accuse you of it. Please re-read my post.

    Also, it’s ‘ad hominem.’ A hominin is a member of genus homo, of which, I assume, you are one.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    🤓

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Got it, you are just going to go with the dishonest claim that I accused you of something I didn’t accuse you of.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re just doing all the debate tropes it’s very funny to me

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And now you have given me good reason to start flagging you for trolling, so I will do so.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    So you admit to sealioning. Noted.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Flagged for trolling.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Flagged for trolling.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Retaliatory flagging is a bad idea. Just to warn you now. But you do you.

    Still waiting for your proof.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re literally sealioning trying to goad me when my position is that I’m fucking pissed at the genocide

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nope. Your position was that I support that genocide. Which you have yet to prove.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You already said you plan to vote for one of the shitty people who all suddenly forgot the word “ceasefire”

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nope. I didn’t say who I planned to vote for. That is a lie.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Can you point me towards a mainstream political candidate calling for a ceasefire (exact words only) in Gaza?

    retrieval4558,

    Ok, do it then

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I don’t really need to do anything beyond the cadre work I’m already doing lol. Our government doesn’t need my help to collapse to infighting. Why would I need to do anything when our own politicians are already going down the most self-destructive path I could possibly envision, short of literally starting a nuclear war?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    The why would be because you aren’t a narcissist and care about other people’s lives.

    I’m not so sure you’re not a narcissist.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Are you just trying to insult me or was there a point buried somewhere in there?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re the one implying you’ll enjoy seeing mass deaths. That’s what the total collapse you’re gleefully hoping for will result in.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Where did I imply that? The US is a world historic evil, its end would be a mercy for the rest of the world. I certainly don’t want a nuclear war.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Right here:

    My plan is we elect Joe Biden, he provokes world war 3 while maintaining a peacetime economy, the economy collapses, biden loses to trump (who then dies of Ozempic side effects) and a civil war is fought by patriots attempting to get his running mate George Santos into the white house. The survivors get to fight in the water wars 20 years later.

    Or is this a magical World War 3 with fairies and unicorns where no one dies?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    you cannot be so obtuse that you’ve never heard of gallows humor

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not seeing the humor. I guess you accusing me of supporting Palestinian genocide was another example of that sort of humor?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    gallows humor isn’t meant for the executioners to relate to

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Please show evidence that I am an “executioner.” Unless that is also a lie.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Do you condemn the Biden regimes military support of an ongoing genocide then?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I told you when I would answer your questions.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Is this an interrogation officer?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Flagged for trolling.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Flagged for rolling 😩🪴

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    This is the last time I reply and this and any other thread except for the one where I asked you to name a candidate.

    You want to put my daughter’s life at risk and you’re trolling me. Sick.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re the one concern trolling me. Sick.

    Candelestine,

    It’s a pleasant fantasy, but unfortunately it’s just not that simple. Otherwise it’d have been fixed decades ago during the civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s. Real life has no magic that just makes things end well, so they’re far more likely to backfire. This isn’t a hollywood story.

    Just, “things” in general, fail more often than not. Businesses, trial runs, new experiments, etc. The ones that succeed are the exceptions, not the rule.

    Like, the French Revolution for instance. Did “getting rid of them” work out at all?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Monarchies shouldn’t exist, getting rid of them is good actually.

    Revolutions are messy, but if you’re locked in stasis eventually it’s going to break.

    “Israel” has killed more civilians in a few months in this one area, as big bad Russia did in almost 2 years of fighting across an entire front line. Any politician who supports that is dead to me.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Trump has proven that in every country there’s a segment of the population that wants the head of state to be some entitled asshole, born into a life of luxury and surrounds himself with gold. Having a constitutional monarchy neutralizes this emotion, as these people mostly care about that person being on a fancy chair (or at a fancy desk like the beautiful Resolute Desk) and their family to be the royal family (or first family). Subservient people want some person that they feel like showing their loyalty to proves their patriotism to their country.

    Political cults of personalities are less likely in constitutional monarchy as the subservient people already have a person in that role. Sure the UK had Boris Johnson, but he was a guy that had to mess up his hair so he could look like one of the lads at the pub to get support. And as soon as some dodgy behavior was uncovered, he was quickly removed from power and no one was going to storm Parliament to put him back into power. The subservient types would probably feel like the Queen wouldn’t approve of that kind of thing.

    Also note that the only source for casualty numbers in Gaza come from the Gaza Health Ministry which doesn’t make any attempt to distinguish between civilian and non-civilian casualties. By some estimates, the non-civilian casualties in the Ukraine war is up to 500,000.

    Also democracy is about choosing the least worst option. Do you think Trump will make as much efforts towards humanitarian pauses and an eventual ceasefire as Biden will? Try to see past your hatred and consider what the best course of action is.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Political cults of personalities are less likely in constitutional monarchy as the subservient people already have a person in that role.

    someone’s a free thinker 🙃

    Not interested in your spin of the casualty numbers, occupations brutality is clear for everyone to see. You can tell yourself “it’s not so bad” I’m sure some other equally “free thinkers” will believe you.

    Biden has been worse than useless when it comes to this, he’s an active enabler. Trump would also be an active enabler, but he’s also a massive pussy and would probably back down once too many US troops get killed or some shit like that. Biden I could see riding this out to the bitter end because some grima wormtongue political consultant wants to cash in on the next election.

    Try to see past your hatred and consider what the best course of action is.

    Who exactly do I “hate”

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Yeah, someone that wants to maintain monarchy and is in alignment with US foreign policy is somehow the contrarian “free thinker”.

    You may have been spending too much time online only having discussions with other internet contrarians. The internet lies. This is a propaganda rich environment you’re in right now. The fact that you see someone that thinks a democratic country has a right to exist as being an alien concept to you indicates you should go outside and touch grass or whatever.

    Who exactly do I “hate”

    You hate Israel so much you’re willing to risk the democracy of your own country as an expression of that hatred. Hatred makes people feel like they’re taking a strong stance on an issue while they’re actually just engaging in self-destructive behaviour. It’s why fascists use hatred to get control over people. It’s an easy way to control people.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You hate Israel so much you’re willing to risk the democracy of your own country as an expression of that hatred.

    If my elected government is using its military to aid a genocide, and my “harm reduction” elected representatives have all forgot the word “ceasefire” I’d say that this “democracy” is a democracy on paper only.

    You are the fascist as far as I’m concerned, supporting your new little reich as it uses its American precision weapons to make sure no refugee camp is left un-bombed.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Fascists de-legitimize democracy when they don’t agree with the leadership chosen by the people. Which is what you’re doing right now.

    Gaza hasn’t had an election since Hamas took power. It’s a violent, misogynistic, homophobic movement that seeks to restore an ethnic map from a history book. Blood and Soil. And the chosen method to do so is genocide.

    Yeah I don’t much like Netanyahu either. But in all likelihood he’ll lose the next election because of his failure to protect Israeli civilians. Hamas gains power because of the deaths of Palestinian civilians. Because those deaths increase the anger and hatred which they derive power from. Because Hamas is a fascist movement.

    A democratic society that considers it a failure to protect civilians vs. a fascist society that puts their civilians at the mercy of an invading army while its leadership hides underground.

    Crack open a history book and look at photos of German cities at the end of WWII. Sometimes fascist societies can find their way out of it over generations like in Spain did. But sometimes fascism ends with complete destruction. This is one of the possible endgames for the politics of hatred.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re the one supporting the genocide, dog of American empire.

    If the “democratic decision” is “we must commit a genocide” then sorry but I must dissent.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    What Hamas did was genocide, that is deliberately killing people solely because of their ethnicity.

    What Israel is doing is war. A war that was started by the aforementioned genocide that Hamas committed.

    So you’re “dissenting from democracy” because the genocide of Jews doesn’t register as anything to you. Fascist much?

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >What Israel is doing is war.

    it's collective punishment against an ethnic minority in their own borders.

    it's a genocide

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m sure Netanyahu appreciates that you agree with him that there can only be a one state solution. All that’s left is for Israel to annex Palestine.

    That’s what you want, right? For Palestinians to be citizens of Israel? The term for that is annexation.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    No, I don’t want a fucking ethnostate you fascist dog

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Isn’t an ethnostate the goal of the “Free Palestine” movement? “From the river to the sea” and all that.

    Diva, (edited )
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Absolutely not, jews would get a vote just like christians and muslims (and everyone else). The issue is that “Israel” as a concept is an ethnostate, and an apartheid government with a facade of democracy.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    The goal of Hamas is to ethnically cleanse the Jews from what they consider to be their lands. There hasn’t been an election in Gaza since Hamas got into power.

    The “Free Palestine” movement failed to separate itself from Hamas, not that there was ever all that much effort to do so. Apparently too busy making excuses for October 7 to definitively denounce Hamas. Sorry, but despite all the peace and love feelings from some, the movement failed to to be anything more than a fascist movement supported by useful idiots.

    Maybe the next generation of Palestinians will understand that the politics of hate only leads to destruction. Or maybe the generation after that, who knows?

    A non-violent resistance movement from Palestinians could have success. But the present day Palestinian movement is the opposite of that. To many violent elements in the movement and the violent people hold the power.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Hasbara dog, the only genocide happening is the one perpetrated with American weapons by occupation forces. You are positing a hypothetical genocide in the future, when we already have a clear example of what happens when an apartheid government ends: there was no genocide of white people in south africa, and that is not the goal here either, other than in the wild fantasies of propagandists like you.

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >All that’s left is for Israel to annex Palestine.

    that's already done

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    I don’t think you understand what the word annex means.

    bigMouthCommie,
    @bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

    >That’s what you want, right? For Palestinians to be citizens of Israel?

    no, I want the end of government

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    wow so edgy

    kick_out_the_jams,

    “Israel” has killed more civilians in a few months in this one area, as big bad Russia did in almost 2 years of fighting across an entire front line.

    I wonder if that has anything to do with the civilian density of the places. Eh probably not.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah, it’s got more to do with the difference between monumental restraint and an intentional genocide.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sorry… did you just praise Russia for its restraint after it invaded Ukraine unprovoked?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Considering they have killed fewer civilians in 2 years than “Israel” in 3 months? yes

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And yet they still killed a shit ton of people. Why doesn’t that matter to you?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    It does, but as a resident of the US I would like the “harm reduction” government I have to stop literally funding and using our military to protect a genocide

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And so you praise Putin. Gotcha. Not surprising from someone who is gleefully cheering on mass murder in this thread.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    🤓 ehrem citation needed where do i praise putin oh alpha nerd

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    oh alpha nerd

    Didn’t you just get upset at me ‘insulting’ you when I did no such thing?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Sorry it’s an involuntary reflex when a man corrects my spelling

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Please provide evidence that I am a man.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I apologize if I misgendered you, was I wrong?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I told you when I would answer your questions. All you have to do is prove that I support Palestinian genocide.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    If you are planning to vote for the fucking democrats in November you’re rewarding them for providing military and material support (literally the ammunition) for a genocide.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I plan to vote for whoever is most likely to win and least likely to turn the U.S. into a place where my queer daughter’s life is at risk.

    Maybe you don’t care about queer kids and their lives. I do. Especially my daughter’s.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m trans, and I do fucking care about queer kids and our lives. Which is why I’m sick of terrible fucking allies that will use our persecution by our own fucking government to excuse THE SAME FUCKING GOVERNMENT using its military to enable a fucking genocide on the other side of the world.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t really care if you claim to be trans when you are claiming there is no difference between the two main candidates. There is a clear difference when it comes to queer people and if you care so much about queer kids, you name the candidate that has an actual chance of winning that I should vote for. Because otherwise why in the everlasting fuck would I even contemplate being complicit in the overtly homophobic people who are working hard at oppressing queer people getting into office?

    But hey, Caitlyn Jenner is trans too. Apparently being trans doesn’t actually mean you give a shit about queer people.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I don’t really care if you claim to be trans

    Great allyship, 10/10

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You didn’t name the candidate or explain why I shouldn’t be complicit. Got it. You are tacitly admitting you want my daughter and other queer kids to die. Thanks for the admission. Goodbye.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I admit nothing of the sort, you should be embarrassed for hiding behind your child.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    circling back to this, it’s incredible the nerve you have to roll up, refuse to answer any questions beyond insisting that you have a black friend queer daughter, imply that I’m “claiming” to be trans (it’s literally just my life I’m sorry if you’re not used to dealing with minorities), and then go on to gatekeep “actually giving a shit about queer people” behind unconditional support for the people enabling a genocide in the here and now. I’m assuming you’re cis, just going off of how you felt the need to use someone elses queerness to excuse your actions.

    cool stuff

    Candelestine,

    The French Revolution failed to get rid of the monarchy, they had their king back a generation later.

    History is full of important details if you really want to know the truth of why the world sucks so much. It’s not just easy.

    crsu,
    @crsu@lemmy.world avatar

    Moral of the story: never stop guillotining

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah, that’s literally in Marx’s 18th Brumaire, maybe pick it up sometime.

    The problem is replacing a monarchy with a bourgeois dictactorship “democracy”

    Candelestine,

    Ah, I see. If you can make a proof of concept work, I’ll be interested. Until then, you seem to just have yet another method for accidentally installing dictators.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    have fun ‘electing’ one of the rotating cast of rotting genocidal corpses and telling yourself it’s the best you could do.

    It’s so fucking nauseating talking to people like you.

    Candelestine,

    Don’t get me wrong, we have a number of independent communes that exist here in the states. It’s a system that works well at small scales, anything around that village-size of human societies, where everyone knows everyone. It’s just when it gets scaled up to millions of people that problems start to pop up.

    I’m all for better systems. It’s just that I have a limited risk tolerance for really dark times.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m all for better systems. It’s just that I have a limited risk tolerance for really dark times.

    really dark times for who exactly? because unless you’re the white kind of person they’re already here

    Unchecked capitalism with a fig leaf of democracy sounds good in theory but eventually you run out of other peoples kids to feed into the blender.

    Candelestine,

    I think you underestimate how much worse everything can, and quite possibly will, get. Unless you believe in some god that protects us, then literally everything is possible. Including a return to attitudes from two centuries ago, where slavery was enforced out in plain sight, with whips.

    That was worse than what we have now.

    One of the worst things we do is try to protect our children from the true horror of how ugly this world really is, and how rare happy endings actually are. This is why it remains so important to fight for real justice with everything we have, because what little progress we have actually made is trying to be stripped from us.

    That said, I fully agree that unchecked capitalism is rapidly returning us to the era of the robber barons, and doing tremendous harm. But the opposite of that bad thing can also be another bad thing, life isn’t so simple that the opposite of bad is automatically good. It’s so much trickier than that in everything but our fiction, and what we really need is some godawfully complex and nuanced middle ground that will make very little sense to most folks.

    Frankly, unchecked capitalism doesn’t even sound good in theory. It relies on humans being rational, which they very clearly are not.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You say we need to protect our children from the true horror of how ugly this world really is, but I’m the one saying we need to stop inflicting the true horrors of how ugly this world really is on the children of Palestine.

    Our democracy is a farce and frankly you are making the case for a deal with monumentally inhuman forces because they promise you, your family and your friends a better life, while they inflict untold horrors around the world in all of our names.

    Candelestine,

    You sound radicalized, I’m sorry to say. It’s all the exaggerated language. Try to remember that every side uses propaganda, it’s not always all true.

    Diva, (edited )
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    lmao you’re one to talk concern trolling about how trying to fix things is bad actually is also being a propagandist. For the people that literally don’t care if you live or die.

    Candelestine,

    You don’t sound like you’re trying to fix things. You sound like you’re trying to make things harder by increasing the amount of strife, which furthers the paralysis of the country.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You don’t sound like you’re trying to fix things, you just sound like you’re rationalizing keeping the empire running because it keeps you and yours comfortable.

    Candelestine,

    To the contrary, many of us fight against American imperialism, in both its economic and military forms. Don’t expect us to just bow to a different imperial master though, that’s not equality. Just subjugation under a different master.

    edit to fix a word

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    what other imperial master lmao

    Candelestine,

    There’s a lot of them. Unless you’re a conspiracy theorist anyway.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    You sound like the one with the grand conspiracy lol

    Candelestine,

    Really? By acknowledging the world has multiple powers that exist on it? I think you can see that just from looking at a map.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah, it’s the whole “oh those asian dictators are just waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces” vibe that sort of talk gives off just rubs me the wrong way 🤔

    Candelestine,

    … I mean, you think they’re just better than us?

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    No, but if you think we’re better than them in any way that’s probably just chauvinism and propaganda.

    Candelestine,

    Agreed. We are not better in any way. We’re only as good as we can stay loyal to our principles of freedom and equality, which is a big struggle for us.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s a real problem that politics are so tribal in the US, because part of the reason we’re stuck in stasis is because of the complete inability for the democrats to get pulled left at all. You can’t even call them out for shit that’s blatantly criminal without people falling all over themselves to call you a “tankie” or “putinist” or secretly a republican. It’s exhausting.

    Candelestine,

    Yeah. The online trolls have multiplied and even bled into irl. The mainstream dems did learn some lessons from the Hilary/Bernie thing though. We didn’t all become full-throated democratic socialists, but we started to remember how important compromise and dialogue are, instead of trying to lead from the top-down.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    What’s upsetting to me is that it’s been 3 months of Israel killing an absolutely disproportionate amount of Palestinians, in what is clearly a genocide. They are doing this with US weapons, protected by the US military. I have contacted literally every one of my representatives, all democrats, they give me the same bullshit. (Yes I’m a nut who complained to my state rep about this) It feels like our government is totally unreachable on this and it’s getting really upsetting having people expressing more concern over the election as if this is some political football

    Candelestine,

    A big part of the problem is America’s responsibilities to our network of allies. We used to regularly betray the treaties we signed, it was extremely common in our dealings with first peoples. We stopped about a century ago though, since then we’ve tried to actually stand by our word when we gave it, though more in letter than spirit.

    Since we had this pre-existing military alliance with Israel though, it immediately put us in a very difficult position of having to betray an ally in the midst of conflict, or betray our principles. Since Netanyahu benefits from prolonging the war as long as possible to save his own ass, we’re largely stuck in this fucked up position. So, Biden tries to make the best of it, and use our insider position to try to do wield what influence he can. Ultimately though, Israel doesn’t actually need us. If we fully withdrew, Gazans would still be dying en masse, just to less accurate weaponry.

    So, we probably just need to withdraw ourselves from Middle Eastern security, to be frank. But the details of how best to accomplish that are over my head. We do have treaty obligations all over the globe though, not just to NATO, but all sorts of other countries too. There’s a Rio Treaty for instance, which actually has us in a military alliance with almost all of S America. We’re actually allied with around half the globe, which is just … a lot.

    Then on top of that all, you have our military-industrial complex which is just doing its war profiteering thing, exactly how Pres Eisenhower, the repub pres and WW2 general who coined the term “military-industrial complex” in the first place, warned us it would. We were scared of the USSR for decades, which is what gave it such a strong foothold, but it didn’t go away after it became unnecessary. And now war seems to be spreading over the world again, so … yeah.

    All that said, I do think we need to keep the pressure up on Biden to call out Israeli war crimes. He doesn’t really want to, it seems, but he needs to, and it would not be a violation of our treaty obligations to do so.

    It’s really just one of the ugliest situations a person could come up with. It’s not like hamas is good people either, they’re as bad as the IDF when it comes to caring about innocent Gazans.

    Personally I support an international coalition replacing the IDF, so Israel can’t just massacre them all and take the land. But Arab countries so far refuse to support that.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I also support a solution like what was done in kosovo. A multinational arab peacekeeping force would do wonders to de-escalate the situation, combined with a the US taking a step back from vetoing everything about this in the UN+ dumping ammo stocks in Israel.

    Shyfer,

    Ya a king was forced on them by other monarchies, but their nostalgia for the Revolution set the seeds for the other revolutions that did eventually get rid of their monarchy. It’s not like it lasted long. They had another revolution one king later to get a stronger constitution to restrict the King, and then a revolution during the King after that. Their monarchs were on shaky ground after the Revolution. The common people now had rights and wants, and expectations. They also had a bunch of gains that persisted through the monarchy which I brought up in another comment.

    Candelestine,

    Just to condense your two comments, it’s true, the French Revolution was not all bad by any stretch. Very much a mixed bag.

    Shyfer,

    Yup! I just don’t like when people say it completely failed. It encourages apathy in the face of oppression because of a fear of radical change. It’s the boogie man of revolutions, but for the common people, life was way better after than before, and for all their children who benefited from it forever after, I’m sure it was worth the period of tumultuousness.

    Candelestine,

    Worth it was a different story. When there’s better ways to accomplish something, there’s terms for the guy that just wants the quick one that causes great suffering. I prefer the British model.

    Ends don’t justify the means imo.

    Shyfer,

    The French Revolution gained the common people lots of gains that even their kings weren’t able to roll back without risking pissing off the populace too much. It was a huge improvement on life before. They drastically reduced the power of the church, fixed the antiquated tax system, made nobles taxed, arranged the military by merit, fixed up the laws with the Napoleonic Code, made the government more representational by giving the Third Estate a voice, etc. These things stayed even through Napoleon and the kings after.

    DougHolland,
    @DougHolland@lemmy.world avatar

    “Both sides do it. Both sides do it.”

    Your stupidity is my first belly-laugh of the day, thanks.

    Diva,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Blue maga = make america genocide again

    ableist grandpa is a shitty fucking bit

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