I’m still just so furious at Signal management for removing compatibility with other text apps. I used to be constantly growing my Signal network, now it’s a slowly shrinking rump that I never add anyone to.
Right, the idea was that you could use Signal as your SMS app, and so whenever there was someone else doing the same you’d automatically upgrade to Signal. Whereas now I never have those auto-upgrades, any new contact I am just stuck on SMS with.
In my opinion, relying on upgrading users automagically to an encrypted and secure protocol isn’t good practice. If someone wants to use an encrypted chat, they should do so consciously. It will only cause confusion otherwise.
Do people still use SMS these days though anyway?
I would have thought iMessage, RCS and separate chat apps like Whatsapp, Signal and WeChat would have largely replaced SMS by now.
In my opinion, relying on upgrading users automagically to an encrypted and secure protocol isn’t good practice. If someone wants to use an encrypted chat, they should do so consciously. It will only cause confusion otherwise.
This is my theory for why they ditched this feature - the ultra-concerned about privacy superusers don’t approve of its messiness, even though in practice it’s the main engine for user growth.
Do people still use SMS these days though anyway?
I would have thought iMessage, RCS and separate chat apps like Whatsapp, Signal and WeChat would have largely replaced SMS by now.
SMS, MMS, iMessage and RCS are all compatible with each other and mostly used interchangeably and are the main way people text each other (in the US anyway). You just have a phone number, and when people text it with any of those formats you receive the message and respond the same way.
Great feature, but if I’m reading it correctly, you won’t be able to chat with someone anonymously (because your profile will still be shared). Are there good apps for that?
Don’t bother with this person. All I’ve seen them do is read the post’s title and produce an (often inappropriate) reaction to said title. Peak Redditor.
About time!! Been waiting for this for so long. This will definitely make the usability of Signal better and it’ll also be more accessible to people who wanted a Telegram like way to talk to other folks. Requiring a number to still register isn’t a bad thing in my eyes though sometimes it can be frustrating so I hope that there’s an option to create an account without a number. Maybe the account will have finite time before it’s auto-deleted if you don’t input a number some time later to ensure that this option isn’t abused to all hell by bots and malicious actors alike.
Maybe the account will have finite time before it’s auto-deleted if you don’t input a number some time later to ensure that this option isn’t abused to all hell by bots and malicious actors alike
we’re already banning bots, thus effectively making them time-limited. Yet we still have bots and spam on there. This sadly won’t work.
its a sensible choice because many potential implementers hae been dissuaded by the anxiety attached to risks of giving out phone number. (harrassment, stalker, spammer, scammer) . the telephone system has paralyzed itself in fear. yet we all keep buying their shit.
I think its great. Its for people who simply don't want to share their phone number with other people which is a huge privacy concern, as you can find out a lot about a person by looking up info connected to their phone number.
They do a lot of work to keep your phone number private, or at least any data that is tied to it. This username upgrade is solely for someone to communicate over Signal without needing to hand over your phone number.
For example, you can now be in group chats with internet strangers by just giving them your username.
On top of that, once MLS is adopted, you can communicate with other messengers as well.
I thought peoples big problem with it was not wanting to give others their number to use signal? Like I meet Joe Blog online and don’t want to give him my real number to chat.
Putting a SIM card in a phone exposes it to enormous surface area of attack. People have been asking to register with anonymous emails instead of a phone number, like Wire has had for years
I thought peoples big problem with it was not wanting to give others their number to use signal?
The issue is that giving your phone number to Signal Messenger LLC is giving it to others, and therefore not keeping it private in the usual sense of the word.
Some people may be unconcerned about a corporation knowing their number vs. their contacts knowing their number, but that doesn’t diminish the misleading aspect of this headline.
Personally, I care about the phone number requirement not because I don’t want to reveal it to Signal servers, but because it limits access to Signal for people in countries that block their SMS service - registration messages just don’t arrive
Wrong, it still keeps it private but not anonymous. It’s not the same concept and for most thread models knowing that you use Signal is not really an issue, especially since with this feature no one can check if you have one if you don’t give them your username unless they have access to Signal servers in which case they still have nothing except the knowledge that you have an account.
A PoW could limit bots too. Require say 30 seconds of work before your registration submits. For regular users that isnt to bad. For bots its a PITA to get tons of accounts
Edit: tor uses PoW as DDOS protection and its helped massively
For each account you register, you have to do 30 seconds worth of work. So to register one account, you do 30 seconds worth of work. To register 100 accounts, you do 100*30 or 3000 seconds (50 minutes) worth of work. Registering tens of thousands of accounts then becomes unfeasible.
Exactly! ANYTHING THAT CAN COMPUTE CAN DO IT. Few things have a uniquely identifying piece of information with other levels that are barriers to entry…like a phone number. The idea is to STOP bots from signing up to Signal.
It's ALSO possible to generate virtual phone numbers for a small cost.
Using a cryptographic PoW is a different small cost.
Either way, it only takes a small cost to prevent mass bot registration.
You're treating processing power and time as if it is 100% free just because it can be done in a VM. But it doesn't matter if it is a VM. It is still going to require at least some certain threshold of processor time, and that processor time has a real cost. For the kind of place that can just spin up thousands of VMs and use it to do massive bot registration... they could just be mining bitcoins instead.
It's not just whether you can do this. It's how much value it has vs what ELSE you could be doing with the time and energy. A Signal account is already worth vanishingly little as a spam tool, they just need to give it enough of a cost to make it not worthwhile.
If preventing Jimmy Bumfuck from spinning up a couple sock puppets is your fear, yeah, PoW systems don’t help. But those are rarely the problem.
For a phishing scam or astroturf operation to be worth it, you need tens of thousands of accounts all running the same script. Those get filtered hard by PoW systems.
Phone validation works just as well, and stops Jimmy Bumfuck from making sock accounts. But now every user must be stapled to a phone number. Maybe that’s a worthwhile trade to you, but it sure doesn’t seem to be to everyone replying to you.
It was the original purpose of the bitcoin algorithm to limit spam.
If you have to do a lot of maths that takes your computer (for example) 30 seconds, that means it costs 30 seconds of compute to create an account. Nothing to an average user, for a spammer that wants thousands of accounts it gets expensive.
Several captcha[0] libraries already use this and it’s great for accessibility (normal captchas are terrible for it)
Because it’s not. I can spin any number of emulators or VMs that do any amount of work with a simple script, but that’s all it does. How does it prove I’m anything but a scripted, virtual instance of a person with a device?
There’s a reason why Telegram is flooded with bots, Signal as of now has not been.
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