eff,
@eff@mastodon.social avatar

There are about a dozen questions we have about self-driving cars and the massive amount of footage they collect. Chief among them: exactly what do police get access to when they get a warrant for footage? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/impending-privacy-threat-self-driving-cars

meltedcheese,
@meltedcheese@c.im avatar

@eff 1/ This certainly could become a problem, but not at the current level of technology. I know the tech well, having worked as Chief Scientist for at a major automotive company until I retired last year. Bottom line: it is far easier to collect vast amounts of data from vehicle sensors than to use it, store it or transmit it. The amount retained today in consumer vehicles, if any, is very small. Think x 8 +/- (Continued)…

meltedcheese,
@meltedcheese@c.im avatar

@eff 2/ This is why automotive companies have fleets of thousands of vehicles to collect driving data to train the AI models used today for automated driving. Each trunk is full of disk drives that must be swapped out after a few hours driving. It is also too much data to transmit, so shipping and sneaker net are used to get the data to multi-exabyte data centers. (Continued)…

meltedcheese,
@meltedcheese@c.im avatar

@eff 3/ Furthermore, there are strict rules (e.g., GDPR) in Europe for transmitting, using, personally identifiable information (PII) that hamper use of this data virtually everywhere. These rules affect the movement and use of the data if the company has a corporate presence in Europe. Even with a warrant, I can’t imagine how it could be fulfilled given the technical obstacles involved. Then, of course, you have the inevitable litigation, but that is not my terrain.

SafeStreetRebel,
@SafeStreetRebel@sfba.social avatar

@meltedcheese @eff

Actually, the San Francisco Police Department has already been doing this, as described in an official training document regarding self-driving cars. This isn't theoretical, it's already happening.

Article:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7dw8x/san-francisco-police-are-using-driverless-cars-as-mobile-surveillance-cameras

Training document: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21970950/av-interaction-guidelines-sfpd.pdf

Screenshot of relevant text:

meltedcheese,
@meltedcheese@c.im avatar

@eff @SafeStreetRebel That’s a very misleading article. 1. Last I heard, the SF police (and fire, emt) are having frequent interactions with misbehaving autonomous taxi vehicles (e.g., driving through police lines) and the tech companies are less than fully cooperative. 2. The article insinuates autonomous vehicles could be used as mobile surveillance platforms. No advantage to that. Why not just use an unmarked police car with a driver? The camera tech is ubiquitous.

SafeStreetRebel,
@SafeStreetRebel@sfba.social avatar

@meltedcheese @eff these are SFPD training material released through a public records request. It doesn't insinuate, it describes facts.

meltedcheese,
@meltedcheese@c.im avatar

@SafeStreetRebel @eff I’m sorry that I could not make my point more clear to you. There is nothing shocking in the training material.

MaybeMyMonkeys,

@eff the manufacturers want to monetize all the data their creation collect. Consumers haven’t owned cars in decades.

BrentInMasto,
@BrentInMasto@mastodon.coffee avatar

@eff Despite all the horror stories of Uber and Tesla (and I'm sure others) techs' massive abuses of privacy, I am shocked I never thought of this angle. Thanks for the reporting!

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