Once again for the people at the back. The purpose of public transport is to transport the public. Making money from doing so is a secondary purpose at best.
Noone talks about the profitability of the motorway network. So why do we do the same for public transport?
Roads are expected, accepted, road expansion and investment are always "necessary" or "justified"
Public transit has to prove its value, time and time again.. And i think that USians expect this is different in the EU, but following NL politics (and NS specifically) its clearly not that different
We've been fighting a highway expansion through the center of Portland OR for years now, we fought the replacement of the Columbia River Crossing. Assumptions are wrong
@quixoticgeek "We are very smart people and are playing small business with public services. Markets are better at everything." said a Dutch person while standing at an out of busstop that just went out of service.
@quixoticgeek In fact, tolling those who use the motorway, and then diverting the funds for various non-transportation purposes is common. So we pay for roads with public money, they tax us to use them, and then divert the funds to give tax-breaks to major-league sports franchises to build stadiums we don't need.
@quixoticgeek I've said to anyone who listens, why don't we look at countries thta have good public transport and do what they do. Oh look, it's usually all heavily state subsidised. Now let's look at how the rubbish ones are expected to function ...
@quixoticgeek@sinabhfuil Good point. Here in Melbourne the public transport now runs 24 hours over Friday and Saturday nights. Costs a fair bit, but there's a huge social benefit – including casual workers getting to and from their jobs safely.
@quixoticgeek Same goes for postal services. To be honest, the same should be true for utilities necessary for life and to participate in modern society (electricity, water, and Internet). The primary goal should be to provide the service, the secondary goal should be to break even, making a profit should not be a goal at all.
@quixoticgeek@ndw Unfortunately, here they do talk about the profitability of the motorway network — at least those stretches which are subject to tolls, which have just risen because they are prepared to fleece the motorist for the benefit of their shareholders.
@quixoticgeek was just looking at the little punt that exists because the westgate bridge in Narrm doesn't have pedestrian/cycle access. It costs $3 for a trip. EFTPOS only. So minors are completely out of luck.
$3 isn't the cost, it's heavily subsidised. So why not free.....
Yep! & at the very least, recognize that revenue sufficient and profitability are quite different. It is notable that vocabulary for making money and making so much money that it's profitable... are often conflated.
Ideally public transport "loses" money... but at the very least it should aim to not extract excess from the public.
@quixoticgeek Public transit authorities track their success via ridership. PTAs need to measure ridership to see if they're doing a good job serving the public. In that context, cost to ridership is important to consider. It's not a question of profitability, it's a question of spending public funds wisely.
@quixoticgeek@QuietMisdreavus As minister for transport, you manage the state-owned corporation that runs public transit buses. It was originally set up as a private company that charged fares, but now gets an annual supplement from the government’s general fund
Wouldn’t it be nice to scrap the fares? But then how do we manage the budget for drivers, mechanics, etc? The general fund varies from year to year, but the input cost of fuel and salaries steadily increases.
@asmallteapot@QuietMisdreavus the question comes down to how does your economy work? If you are not tied to a physical commodity (aka the gold standard), then we can goto modern monetary theory, which says we can just create the money for it. Then we can tax the rich to control inflation. (See the Deficit myth by Stephanie Kelton).
This is slightly harder in the eurozone. But places like UK and US, much easier from a monetary point of view.
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