gregeganSF, (edited )
@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz avatar

On Tw*tter, Mike Lawler linked to a nice Physics Today article that points out that the planet whose average distance to Earth over any long period of time is the shortest is Mercury, not Venus.

I agree with their conclusions … but I wonder if there is an error in the specific formula they give for the average distance as an elliptic integral.

If we specialise to the case where one orbit is a unit circle and the other has radius r, Mathematica gives a somewhat different formula than theirs (actually two different formulas, for r>1 and r<1, blue and gold in the plot), which give close results to the Physics Today formula (green in the plot), but not exactly the same.

Numerical integration seems to confirm the formulas Mathematica gives.

Have I made some dumb mistake in the way I’ve set up the problem, or is the formula in the article wrong?

@buster and @duetosymmetry; the conventions for Mathematica’s EllipticE function and the elliptic integral function in the article are different; Mathematica’s function expects an argument that is the square of the one used in the article.]

https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/Online/30593/Venus-is-not-Earth-s-closest-neighbor

narain,
@narain@mathstodon.xyz avatar

@gregeganSF The case r = 1 is also interesting. It shows that over any long period of time, the Earth is on average quite far from itself. No, wait...

tewalds,
apodoxus,
@apodoxus@mastodon.online avatar

@gregeganSF

On Tw*tter, Mike Lawler linked to a nice Physics Today article that points out that the planet whose average distance to Earth over any long period of time is Mercury, not Venus.

You mean the average distance is shorter; you missed a predicate. :)

buster,
@buster@mathstodon.xyz avatar

@gregeganSF Here's a guess, not confirmed.

The Mathematica 'EllipticE' takes the "parameter" 𝑚 as its argument, whereas in the Physics Today article, the convention seems to be that 𝐸 takes the "eccentricity" 𝑘; you should square the eccentricity 𝑘=2√𝑟/(1+𝑟) to get 𝑚=4𝑟/(1+2𝑟+𝑟²) before passing it to EllipticE.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_integral#Argument_notation and https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/EllipticE.html

gregeganSF,
@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz avatar

@buster Right! Problem solved; once you do that, the two solutions agree!

@duetosymmetry also pointed this out on Tw*tter.

lisyarus,
@lisyarus@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar

@gregeganSF I can't parse the first sentence, "whose average distance to Earth" is what?

davidr,
@davidr@hachyderm.io avatar

@gregeganSF Did you include orbital velocity (i.e. time spent at each radius) in that average?

darabos,
@darabos@mastodon.online avatar

@davidr @gregeganSF As I understand it this is a circular approximation so it's going with a uniform speed.

davidr,
@davidr@hachyderm.io avatar

@darabos @gregeganSF In that case, the integral doesn't matter, only the radii.

darabos,
@darabos@mastodon.online avatar

@davidr @gregeganSF Without doing the integral, how do you know Mercury is on average closer than Venus?

davidr,
@davidr@hachyderm.io avatar

@darabos @gregeganSF If we are approximating as circles, then only the radius of each matters. If we aren't, orbital velocity matters.

gregeganSF,
@gregeganSF@mathstodon.xyz avatar

@davidr @darabos We are approximating both orbits as circular, with constant velocity. But to find the average distance between the planets, we still need to perform an integral over one complete orbit of one of the planets.

davidr,
@davidr@hachyderm.io avatar

@gregeganSF @darabos Oh the distance between the planets. I thought we were talking about the distance of each to the sun.

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