Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

It's easy to fault the founders for all the things they got wrong. Once in a while, we should note when they got something right.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-woman-miscarried-home-will-not-criminally-charged-grand-jury-says-rcna132093#

A grand jury refused to charge the Ohio woman who miscarried in her bathroom.

Grand juries were added to the Fifth Amendment to check a potentially tyrannical government. (Not all states are required to use Grand Juries because Grand Juries were not incorporated through the due process clause but the idea comes from the 5th Amendment)

MyView,
@MyView@aus.social avatar

@Teri_Kanefield

What horrifies me the most is the fact anybody anywhere would even consider criminally charging a woman, any woman anywhere anytime for a miscarriage ... especially one that was inevitable and for which she should have been in hospital for ...

This is the type of thing many Americans vilify 'third world' and 'communist' countries for ...
And the fact it happens in what Americans claim is the greatest country in the world; the richest country in the world; the "leader of the free world'; ... is shameful ...

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@Teri_Kanefield

Charging for a miscarriage? why not also charge people who break a leg for self battery?

Nazani,

@Teri_Kanefield
The founders, or their colonial society, were pretty blase about miscarriage.
https://academic.oup.com/book/32412/chapter-abstract/268716127?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@Nazani abortion and birth control were largely legal, though. It was only later when women began acquiring rights that these things came under attack.

mloxton,
@mloxton@med-mastodon.com avatar

@Teri_Kanefield
I would like to see the DA and the cops get penalized for this though

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@mloxton

I hope by "penalized" you mean "vote them out" and you are not implying that there should be criminal punishment.

If you meant 'criminal punishment' I'm you can see the problems with that.

mloxton,
@mloxton@med-mastodon.com avatar

@Teri_Kanefield
Administrative punishment

  • Loss of promotion, rank, etc
  • Payroll or bonus penalties
  • Role changes
  • Reassignments
  • Transfers
  • etc.
Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@mloxton

Those requiring the government taking steps against the errant government officers, which doesn't work if those running the government agree.

mloxton,
@mloxton@med-mastodon.com avatar

@Teri_Kanefield
That is certainly true, and why we aren't seeing this happen already.
I just have a wish that it would be so and that we can please have a government that disciplines bad behavior

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@mloxton

I as about to come back and say it's a reasomable wish (but you beat me too it :)

zoebleck,

@Teri_Kanefield
We were talking about this yesterday after it broke. OH has been doing some good things--rethe two votes on Issue One. Go Ohio!

not2b,
@not2b@sfba.social avatar

@Teri_Kanefield I am puzzled about how it was decided which parts of the Bill of Rights were extended to apply to the states by the 14th amendment and which were not. The language certainly doesn't make that clear.

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@not2b

That's a good question. You may have to read the book I just finished writing for a good answer :)

If you want to tackle a legal definition, try: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/incorporation_doctrine#:~:text=The%20incorporation%20doctrine%20is%20a,clause%20of%20the%20Fourteenth%20Amendment.

Summary: each phrase has been litigated and either incorporated or not.

Shmock,
@Shmock@mastodon.social avatar

@Teri_Kanefield this case was so beyond ridiculous in the first place. Minority rule, corrected by the grand jury, thankfully. Thanks for your writing and research and all that you do, Teri.

mrcompletely,
@mrcompletely@heads.social avatar

@Teri_Kanefield as I was just reading about the abuse of grand juries by the Nixon administration, it's hard to resist a minor reply-guy caveat that they can cut both ways. And while that harassment campaign against political radicals and drug suspects was eventually halted, it upended a lot of lives and caused a lot of harm. But I don't mean to debate your core point, just add some color and depth to it

mattblaze,
@mattblaze@federate.social avatar

@Teri_Kanefield While we certainly can (and should) laud the grand jurors for injecting some sanity and compassion into this horror, the fact that investigators, prosecutors, and at least one judge failed to do so first remains a great shame.

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@mattblaze I couldn't agree more.

It's completely horrifying.

SteveBellovin,
@SteveBellovin@mastodon.lawprofs.org avatar

@Teri_Kanefield @mattblaze I will not be even slightly surprised if the local DA tries to find some other way to charge this woman.

meredithw,
@meredithw@wandering.shop avatar

@Teri_Kanefield @mattblaze Especially horrifying how the hospital acted. Women will die because they're scared to go to the hospital in emergencies like this one.

LPerry2,
@LPerry2@mastodon.social avatar

@mattblaze @Teri_Kanefield Because I am old enough to remember life for women before Roe v. Wade, nothing about this surprises me. Many, many, many women went through this when they miscarried. A woman's doctor called the police if a woman miscarried in the doctor's office. This was standard--and it's why women supported legalizing abortion. Gen Xers, millennials and Z-ers are just beginning to discover what the revocation of Roe v. Wade means to them personally.

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@Teri_Kanefield

is there any truth to the ham sandwich joke?

Teri_Kanefield,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@wjmaggos Generally, yes.

But then we have moments like these.

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