The Grateful Dead had better songs, but the consistency of the Phish lineup, and the resulting chemistry, (plus Jon Fishman) makes Phish the better “band”.
This is also why Phish cover bands will never be as successful as Grateful Dead cover bands.
@maxellxlii90 oh I think it's just that no one can drum like fishman and the music doesn't work at all without him. Composed material and jams. Copping Trey licks has been a thing since Michael Kang but if you can drum like Fish you're getting gig offers much better than a cover band
@mrcompletely point remains! there have been transcendent performances of Grateful Dead material regardless of who is on stage. To some extent, the songs are so strong that all members have now been proven replaceable (to a degree, looking at the success of Phil and Friends / Dead & Co., not a judgement on JG.)
@maxellxlii90 yeah, you lost me there. Post Garcia Dead music is pretty much meaningless to me, but I was lucky enough to get 150+ nights in the room with the big fella. I'm glad it's happening bc it keeps the scene alive and makes people happy, but I don't think the music is really any good, not since the earliest Phil lineups anyway (and that was half grief catharsis)
@mrcompletely Appreciate your perspective on the quality of post Garcia dead music. From another angle, even when Jerry was alive, they proved that the keyboards and rhythm section could be altered with similar results. The magic was more about Jerry than the contributions of each individual. Phil / Bobby / Garcia have a palpable and unique chemistry, but that’s not a band.
@maxellxlii90 FWIW, I know my view of post Garcia dead music is just mine and one many disagree with
I do think ultimately it comes down to Garcia. But Phil was Jerry's Fishman so to speak, and there was alchemy with the core crew (Phil, Weir, Billy, Hunter) that catalyzed Garcia to grow beyond his natural interests. As much as I love the side projects, the GD as a whole* were more innovative/creative
*meaning that core group
but ultimately I do see what you're saying, just thinking out loud
@mrcompletely I agree with you on this, but for me it is more than just Garcia. The Grateful Dead functioned as a democracy. There was a push and pull that anyone on stage could step up and take part in, whether that was a musical dialog or bringing material into the band, etc.
I have certainly heard bits of that in postGD configs, but it always feels like there is a controlled space for it to happen. It is more about nostalgia than it is exploring new territory.
@tonymasiello@maxellxlii90 that's what I was trying to get at in my second paragraph above. I do think there's some truth to the observation that the fact this persisted across lineup changes outside of the core group is meaningful
@mrcompletely@maxellxlii90 JRAD plays the Dead's (amazing) catalog better than the Dead ever did. (I don't think I actually believe this, but maybe I do? Listen to JRAD 2x as much as the Dead these days...) #HotTakeJubilee
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