How does one say, "I've been trying to tell you hydrogen was a scam for two decades now" in marketing speak?
Just give up on this oil company-led nightmare and go pure electric already. Being tied to the pump is so 𝘧𝘦𝘵𝘤𝘩. 😂
@KiwiEV It's funny how people like you can make infinite excuses for BEVs, even though it has cost society something well past $1 trillion now. It is still not catching on.
There will be alternatives to BEVs if green transportation is to be possible. Failure to realize this fact means you are not serious about solving climate change. Aggressive opposition to alternatives is itself climate change denial.
@thefathippy@KiwiEV Because your belief system is functionally the same thing as climate change denial. Your problem is that you have failed to realize that you have been lied to by massive corporations. They are here to sell you cars and grow their business, including environmentally destructive mining. Much of it is even national propaganda from China, the country that benefits from such claims. As a result, the BEV cult has done nothing but undermine green transportation.
@KiwiEV The hydrogen economy in marketing speak: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future! Invest now; invest often!" The quiet part: "And it always will be."
@KiwiEV They are still pushing the nonsense. YouTube put a video in my home page yesterday all about Toyota's new hydrogen combustion engine tech and how it delivers the same power and torque as a gasoline engine so it will destroy the EV market. I guess they didn't realize that power and torque numbers are not a winning metric for ICE...
They just cannot let go of hydrogen. First they failed with fuel cells, next they will fail with hydrogen ICE. What comes after that?
@Bluedonkey@KiwiEV BEVs have already failed as an idea. You guys are doing little more than extending the life of fossil fuels.
A hydrogen-ICE car will cost no more than a conventional ICE car and have all of the same basic advantages. It is a valid idea. People who oppose such ideas are functionally climate change deniers.
@John@KiwiEV@ZeKik That's 15 years ago. Technology has moved on. Repeating outdated rhetoric is just mirroring what happened to anti-wind and anti-solar rhetoric from the past.
@John@KiwiEV@ZeKik Electricity was ~90% made from fossil fuels until relatively recently. This is a classic tactic of climate change denial. Pretend that carbon-free technologies will always rely on fossil fuels. In reality, it is a distraction tactic. And people who use such tactics are climate change deniers, even they don't know it yet.
In fact, they are already capable of fully replacing conventional cars because they already have the fast refueling times and long-ranges of ICE cars. Something you cannot say about BEVs.
Like I said, pro-BEV fanatics is just the result of propaganda, either from massive corporations or China.
@Hypx@John@KiwiEV furthermore, charging at home enables other features such as preheating or precooling the cabin before departure, and functioning as backup power during outages etc.
One disadvantage of BEV is the weight, but that too is changing fast. Starting next year probably.
In Europe, they are already offering BEV leases as low as €100/month!
It’s hard to see FCEV being cost effective in the foreseeable future. 🤷♂️
@Hypx@John@KiwiEV Stellantis and BMW are on record as making money on every BEV they sell. They’re also two of the most profitable car companies today.
The cost of hydrogen without Toyota’s fuel card is highly prohibitive. The cost of electricity, which is largely green and renewable in California, is not.
@ZeKik@John@KiwiEV A handful of companies, sure. But that's ignoring the insane levels of subsidies. As a whole, the entire BEV business has only generate losses.
Again, all things will be expensive at first until it reaches large scale production. This is a tactic used against all green technologies when they were new technologies.
Also, Toyota is the most profitable car company. A fact that shouldn't be ignored.
@ZeKik@John@KiwiEV Subsidies come and go. It is highly unpredictable. But as a whole, the BEV market is massive subsidized. Especially in China. There wouldn't be much of a BEV market without them.
This is getting to be pointless. If you aren't willing to engage honestly about facts, then you are not aiming to be an environmentalist. You are ending up just being another BEV fanatic with no interest in actual environmentalism.
@Hypx@John@KiwiEV you are trying to put words in my mouth, and I’m merely quoting facts.
The numbers for Toyota are from 2023. The numbers for Stellantis are from 2020.
Even so, I’m not convinced these numbers are even completely correct, but I’m not willing to spend the time checking them individually, which would require analyzing the annual report of each company individually.
@ZeKik@John@KiwiEV 2020 was a year of massive government stimulus. It is a misleading year. BEV companies have mostly shifted towards losses or less profits in 2023.
@ZeKik@John@KiwiEV You are just repeating a lot of BEV propaganda. In reality, hydrogen cars are much simpler to build and use far less raw material. They will cost no more than ICE cars to build. Something that is obvious if it is a hydrogen ICE car.
Not everyone has a home to recharge in. This is being closed-minded about the realities of owning a BEV for most people.
@ZeKik@John@KiwiEV No one has made a BEV cost effective. This is despite over a trillion or so dollars subsidizing it. This is ending as a repeat of the diesel car. Ethanol cars in the US. An idea cooked up by corporate lobbyists but not practical in the real world.
In reality, we have have to look at alternatives and seriously support them. Failure to do so will just mean more fossil fuel use.
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