Too bad a big chunk of the self-professed supporters don’t actually give a shit about Palestinian civilians at all, they’re just paying lip service because they want an excuse to hate on Jews.
Don’t like all “pro Palestinia” people do exactly that? If you support the civilians there you don’t run around with a flag that is used by the “government” they have, wich literally started this entire shitshow again and now use the civilians as meat shields…
The swastika predates the Nazis by several Hundreds of years…
And no, The IRA where never the government or part of it. Hamas was elected with 44% in a somewhat democratic election, before they took power (more than NSDAP, Hitlers party, had during democratic elections)
Yeah, and I would argue the Nazis don’t own the swastika. I’m not going to tell Buddhist and Hindu temples to take down their symbol because someone misappropriated it. Just like the IRA, Hamas has a militant wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, and a political wing that I’ll make a rough comparison to Sinn Fein which has absolutely been a part of Northern and the Republic of Ireland government.
Also, that election that ended up with Hamas in power was like 18 years ago which also happens to be the median age in Gaza. The majority of people in Gaza have never voted for Hamas.
The majority of people in nazi Germany didn’t vote for Hitler either, yet he was in power, yet the allies flattened the whole country, yet the swastika is banned in most countries.
There is no reason to wave a Palestinia flag at all. Just use signs Calling for restraint and help for the civilians.
As long as Palestinia is a thing, Hamas is as well, and their proclaimed goal is to kill all jews in Israel (or rather all citizens of Israel in general) wich makes the just as bad as the Nazi, although less capable.
There is no reason to wave a Palestinia flag at all. Just use signs Calling for restraint and help for the civilians.
No, the point in waving a Palestinian flag is to support the recognition of an independent Palestinian state. You can support that without supporting the terrorists that appropriated it.
Personally, I’d like to show up with both an Israeli and Palestinian flag, but I’m worried I’d just be jumped by the extremists on either side. I think a two-state solution must be the direction we go, not just “restraint and help for civilians.” Both Israel and Palestine must be independent, but getting there is an incredibly difficult thing that may not be possible without serious concessions from both sides, which isn’t likely to happen with the current leadership on both sides.
I think it is possible. Fatah seem willing to play ball, so the ball is largely in Israel’s court now. But if Israel keeps responding to Palestinian extremism by killing regular citizens, it’s not going to happen. This war has drastically delayed any potential for a two state solution, so it could be decades before either side is willing to come to the table again.
What else should they do? Conduct suicide missions into Gaza to get the terrorists “without killing civilians” (there would still be many casualtys among civilians, especially because Hamas uses them as shield)
Idk, I’m not a general. Maybe their strategy is their best option.
But that’s irrelevant. What matters is that people on the ground are dying and they blame Israel. Whatever meager trust that may have existed is absolutely gone. So a two state solution isn’t going to work because people in Gaza won’t want to come to the table because they won’t trust Israel.
Sure. They have an urgency to eliminate Hamas, and they’re unlikely to agree to any kind of agreement that doesn’t involve Hamas leadership being removed, and I doubt the people of Gaza have any kind of ability or will to deliver them to the Israeli military.
Yes. That’s the problem, and people in the west being antisemitic and supporting the terrorists doesn’t make it better for anyone. It just makes Israel not listen to the west anymore, if it was up to the Israeli military there wouldn’t be a Gaza anymore, USA UK and EU are literally the only thing holding back their military from just making a Glass Desert. The situation is so Tense that its basically not solvable with words. And using weapons will result in a gigantic humanitarian Desaster, worse than its already.
I feel like whether this is true or not, the fact that all these words are starting to show up together again means that we’re probably about to all start killing each other again. Edit: well, we already have. But like a lot again. Like idk if there’s gonna be any people left, a lot. Humans have been shown to be pretty tenacious, so I’m really hoping this is just part of the process. But it seems like every time we do this it’s so much more widespread and so many more people die. I just wish everybody would stop caring about who’s wrong and who’s right and just breathe and ask themselves how we’re going to get out of the next few decades with the least people dead before their time.
Context: This happened 2 weeks ago. It was a small group of like 20 people in a protest of hundreds. The organiser of the protest condemned them, and asked the police for help removing them. The police declined to help.
The media keeps covering the like 20 antisemites and ignoring the hundreds of peaceful demonstrators, that the police tried to stop the demonstration going ahead at all, or that the Australian government is uncritically supporting the IDFs genocide.
I have to wonder how much of these are cherry picked. I don’t know a single pro palestine person who is also a nazi. I think a lot of the “pro palestinian rights = nazi” stuff is really forced and not representative of even .1% of pro palestine people. I mean there was that one huge story of some people at a pro palestine rally with a nazi flag and it turned out to have been photo-shopped
Please don’t give the idiots a soap box. Supporting Palestinian right to life and territory doesn’t mean you support the destruction of Jews or Israel.
Believe it or not, people can come together in peace when old racist rich fucks that want power, land, and money stay out of it.
The PLO and Fatah both recognise the state of Israel and its right to exist, have given up armed struggle, and signed the Oslo Accords with Israel, accepting a peaceful political pathway to a two state solution.
I don’t think burying this and pretending it didn’t happen is helpful when Jews around the world are telling us right now that they are terrified and under attack
Over 50% of the population of Gaza wasn’t born when Hamas was elected. They’ve never had a choice on their leadership, and it’s a shame they didn’t take any opportunities to change the leadership before this.
Sure, but unfortunately at present in Gaza, they are the same entity. Hamas represents Palestine there. One cannot retaliate against Hamas without harming Palestinians; there's significant overlap in that Venn diagram. It's like saying one supports Russia but not Putin.
The big difference for me regarding the factions here is that although asymmetrical, one side of this conflict wants genocide and the other wants safety. Although Palestine is the underdog here and is punching up rather than punching down, I cannot see them as the good guys like I might otherwise. They are a hostile belligerent force that attacks civilians regularly and refuses to concede defeat despite having lost every war they stated with Israel since 1948. At this rate they will soon be left with nothing because they will not accept the realpolitik of their situation and their leaders historically prefer violence to viable concessions. This unwillingness to accept the inevitable consequences of their failed hostile actions will not end well for them.
Very elegantly put. Unfortunately, eliminating Hamas could be like trying to eliminate the Taliban from Afghanistan, where it just ends up being a hydra situation.
I think it does need to be acknowledged that there is a faction of people that absolutely do support the destruction of Israel and Jews. Hamas was elected, it should be remembered.
That absolutely does not mean that support for Palestinian statehood requires you to be opposed to Israel's existence, but advocates for peace should be very clear that this kind of rhetoric is absolutely not tolerated. And conversely, advocates for Israel must absolutely reject the people that would support the complete removal of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank.
There are extremists on all sides, and genocidal rhetoric must not be tolerated, wherever it comes from.
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