All the nay sayers that it won't change anything, are right to a point. Yes the message is "it's only two days, after that it's fine again!", if you're full on corpo. But what the userbase is demonstrating to not just reddit, but future investors on their IPO - is that they are 100% capable of removing everything that makes reddit what it is within days and for an indefinite amount of time. There's always churn. The amount of potential new users being lost due to massive degradation in public feeds will be noticeable. The amount of lost impressions on ads for mega subs will be noticeable.
To my mind, it doesn't even matter if this particular two day period hurts them financially. The message is clear. Reddit isn't some assortment of Twitter schmucks that have no ability to actually have any impact. If there's nothing to monetize, nothing to push ads through, nothing to attract new users, the platform is worthless and the users hold almost all the power.
If reddit takes away the ability to turn subreddits off, they'll be deleted next time. This generation is fed up with being helpless pawns in shitty CEO games. I deleted several accounts and don't have any left. I am done with reddit as an actual user and contributor.
Every time they go toe to toe with their user base they will bleed the users that keep that place running and relevant.
Feeling the same way. Been active on reddit for over 10 years. Regularly engaged with the community and posted content. Reddit admins watched and supported their thriving community for years, which is literally the only thing that made it so popular. And now it seems like they've realized they can start squeezing revenue out of said community that's stuck with them for years because they know ultimately people will just bitch out and accept whatever change they push, rather than moving to another website.
I know it's been said before but the irony that people migrated from Digg to Reddit to escape greedy corporate hands, only to know be caught up in Reddit's own greedy corporate hands is palpable. And while I think sites like Tildes seem like a good alternative in theory, I have no doubt it will ultimately meet the same fate as Reddit and Digg. The admins will make some stupid change that will cause an uproar and people have to choose between turning over and just letting it happen or finding an entirely new website which no one really wants to do
Couldn't be happier joining up with the Fediverse. Essentially solves all the problems I described above. I happen to like kbin and the admin(s) that run it, but if they ever changed their tune it's great to know that I could leave for another Fediverse destination and still engage pretty seamlessly with a lot of the same community/users. And I feel like that fact alone will make the website admins want to be a lot more agreeable with their community. Gives the users/community more power to not have to stand for bullshit
The people in charge are fools if they're taking this as just a temporary annoyance. Yes, this particular action is temporary - it's like a set duration strike. We're showing how many people are dissatisfied and willing to commit to further sanctions if concerns aren't immediately addressed.
Also, while the subs may light up again, a lot of /u/s won't. The content will come back, but not all of it, and it'll just trickle away if nothing is done. Reddit depends on a certain critical mass to function - people have to post content that engages others to keep everyone engaged. Once content quality (or quantity) falls below a critical threshold, the entire place will just become so much wasteland.
The content will come back, but not all of it, and it'll just trickle away if nothing is done. Reddit depends on a certain critical mass to function
Agreed, and yeah, the whole thing is temporary (except for the subs that vowed to stay dark), but the "it won't work!!" naysayers aren't thinking long term. Enough users have made up their minds and left Reddit permanently that the impact will be still be felt even if all the subs were to reopen. The damage has already been done, it's just not visible yet. It's not just the users that left, it's all the patient, level-headed, good mods that work for free to ensure a certain level of quality.
And like you said, the general state of the site is gonna continue to erode until it resembles Twitter more than anything else. R.I.P Reddit!
But hey, here's our chance, for people like you and me, to help create and shape places like this into the good online spaces that we know are possible and can exist. We did it before, we can do it again.
I personally see it as more of a mod strike than a user rebellion. If it wasn't something that affected the mods so much it wouldn't have blown up so much.
I don't know if it's more of a mod strike (mods are at the forefront by making subs private, but idk about pure number of people if mods are more than users), but I do think the API changes will affect moderation in a way that may be detrimental to Reddit. Third party apps were more powerful for moderators and if moderators either leave or can't properly do their jobs then the platform may get overrun by trolls and bad posts. That may push out the more casual users.
Oh yes, it DOES affect users, all of those who USE the third-party apps and want nothing to do with a mediocre, buggy and ad-infested, privacy-intruding software made by corporate committee.
Add on top the way they dishonestly handle situations of their own making and the contempt with which they treat the community, and you get a founder of Reddit saying wildly inappropriate and tone-deaf things such as "I like popcorn".
Maybe so, but the few subs I visited regularly and went dark tried to inform their base users and ask for our opinion about it.
Some subs were very adamant against the strike because this days were very important for them (Starfield) others like the Xbox subs were on it even though this was a very important week for them.
I have a theory that this is actually one of the last times that the current mods can actually "push" for change.
The older userbase has been fed up with reddit for a longer period of time and was in a status quo about the platform because the people above didn't interfere with those specific users. Now they did, showed their greedy hand and they actually cannot put the genie back in the bottle.
The older users are presumably power users and mod alike and especially the older power users understand what a thankless position that of a moderator is.
They are probably now the people who support the blackout and moderators alike and are looking at other platforms to migrate to.
I am very interested to see if the more recent userbase is as understanding towards the moderators when this all is over.
After this, I do assume that Reddit is gonna go full speed ahead to implement the changes they want if people are just going back and just do as if this never happened.
I am basing this just on a hunch and am talking out of my ass but someone has to do it ;).
It will change things too, not for reddit, but for competitors (like kbin).
A tiny site can only grow so fast, at some point things start breaking (both technically and as a community) and users stop joining, but as sites grow bigger they also gain the ability to grow faster.
The protest means that every possible alternative to reddit has been growing as fast as it can reasonably support. That's probably not fast enough to hurt reddit this time, but next time it might be.
What will ultimately hurt reddit is the existence of viable alternatives.
I know people are of differing opinions on this and a lot of people are sad to see reddit go out like this, but I've personally wanted to dump reddit for like a decade now, but there just wasn't anywhere to go. Even if it recovers completely, people who are disillusioned will have options now.
All of this! Plus, from my perspective anyway, this has given a lot of people the chance to get their feet wet with other platforms and ecosystems.
While it may not be a majority, I do believe there will be well seasoned users that see how the whole thing was handled by Reddit, and see the potential in these other avenues, and stay in those new places instead.
So far, I would say I'm one of those users. After a decade on Reddit and decline in quality, I'm certainly happy to call a new platform home and grow with it.
I've been on Reddit for roughly 12 years and spent several as a mod of various subs. I don't expect to go back to Reddit after this blackout as the only thing that kept me there was using Relay Pro; I have no intentions of giving Reddit a single penny even through a 3rd party willing to do the work to accomodate this obscene cash grab.
People have been getting sick of reddit's bullshit for many years now. I think a lot of us have been waiting for them to either get their shit together, or massively fuck up so we can start to move on from there.
The blackout may only lead a small percentage of people to find other platforms, but that may be enough to get something else up and off the ground.
It's very strange being in a new environment personally. I've spent well over 10 years on mostly just reddit (rif) and youtube. But I think it'll be good for me to not rely on reddit to "entertain me" all day while I'm trying not to work.
It just warms but icy black heart when (former) Redditors take action on important issues and results are achieved. For me, that’s what the site was really about.
My hope with the current protests is that Reddit suffers severe consequences. Not only because “fuck spez,” but also because the internet has become one huge corporate orgy, and actual humans should at least be allowed to occupy a corner of it without having to deal with their profiteering bullshit.
But for this we will have to suffer some minor inconveniences, and we must do so not only willingly, but joyfully, in the knowledge that at least we are headed in the right direction away from a homogenized internet.
All credit to @ernest and other devs, but feel free to pat yourselves on the back for being willing to try something new and give up something old. That’s not always easy, but things that are always easy are rarely deeply satisfying.
June 30th is gonna be real interesting once the reality of the situation sets in. I encourage everyone here to be the change you want to see - don't be afraid to participate here and create a new magazines for any niche interest you may have!
I predict a huge drop once the aps stop working. Anyone using RiF and having to switch to the Reddit ap is going to have a hard time. It's really bad. I just opened it up because I haven't used it in a while... Boom. 2nd entry down. Big fat ad. Took up the whole page. Awful looking ad too.
I'm glad to see another Relay user! It's underrated - it seems like a bunch of other apps get the spotlight, but Relay is still my favourite reddit app.
There is no way I'll be using it. I tried it once when RiF was down. Uninstalled within a few minutes. I'm so used to RiF, when I'm playing a game on my pc, I would still prefer browsing reddit via RiF over the web browser.
Since it seems that Reddit admins will eventually just replace mods that refuse to open their subs back up and force them back open anyway, maybe actually opening subs back up would be best thing to do. NOT opening back up to business as usual though. r/videos, for example, could reopen and change their rules to allow only discussions about the best VHS camcorders from the 80s for recording videos, just not actual videos. r/Funny could change their rules and only allow text posts of knock-knock jokes.
This would ensure that those mods aren’t officially breaking any “rules” and the mods that are willing to actually stand up wont risk being ousted in favor of installed mods that are favorable to Reddit’s views. Reddit can have all their subs reopened, but they dont have to remotely resemble anything that they once were. I didn’t see them say anything about that. They could create a sticky that says something like, “Until Reddit reconsiders, this sub is now about X” (just more eloquently said). Make the content so dumb and ridiculous and maybe it’ll get more attention than continuing the blackouts (since they think it’s all going to fizzle out anyway), and keep the good mods in control. They said reopen, but they didnt say it had to be good. Malicious compliance.
Just thinking of ways to stay one step ahead, and it would be absolutely hilarious too. The great rebranding!
Reminds me of stories I've heard of dictatorships where newspapers would replace censored articles with random things, so you'd see in the economy section a full page with a cookie recipe, stuff like that.
My frontpage was basically just news & Ukraine related subs and /r/all was mostly just a bunch of fringe subs I don't care about. Definitely an odd experience. Too bad that the majority will be back soon.
/r/PathofExile announced they're locking themselves indefinitely. The mods have setup a Lemmy instance to replace the sub and are directing users there now.
There are a handful of others going dark indefinitely as well.
I did originally create an account there, but it was when they announced it. I'd reccomend reaching out to Multiplicity on the PoE discord as he runs the PoE lemmy server.
You should be able to post directly there using your current account though, it should be federated with most lemmy instances and kbin.
It'll be interesting if it stays. I wouldn't be surprised if the reddit admins force mods to reopen the subs, or just outright remove the offending mods.
They have done that before. KotakuInAction was shut down once by it's founder who didn't like the direction of the sub and the admins removed the mod that did it and reopened the sub with a new head mod.
I’d love to see Reddit try to replace 25K+ mods along with all their tools and bots. Not happening. The most they’ll do is whine about it, but I’m pretty sure even that won’t happen because their lawyers are definitely telling them to stfu right now.
Also this is my first comment (is it even called a comment on here? lol) on kbin after seeking refuge from Reddit, so hello kbin! Obligatory fuck u/spez.
If they do force reopen them without support from the mods it'll just turn the posts/comments into low quality content. I don't think people realize how much work goes into that "job", myself included. I'm learning a bit more from the r/modcoord subreddit.
I mean I hope you're not dragging all of us, I've been moderating a smaller sub (r/sudoku) for years, and only really that one, and I do really care about our little community. That being said if sync really gets cut off at the 30th I will step down from modding it, it will be with a heavy heart since I've really enjoyed being a part of that an some other really niche small but nice communities, but well, not much we can do about it.
I wish more subs had enough of a spine to pull this off, especially after Reddit doubling down. Reddit is absolutely nothing without its users and their content.
I think the best Reddit blackout trackers are the ones that highlight the most popular subreddits, like this one showing 204 of the top 250 are dark: https://save3rdpartyapps.com/
In all seriousness, your approach in this thread is commendable. You immediately change course when presented with sensible improvements. We should all do that more often, especially including me. Kudos.
Thank you, TBH I was horrified when I came back and saw the comments. It's important to present accurate stats and stop the spread of misinformation, especially for something as far-reaching and historical as this massive online protest. I'm just glad I was able to edit this before too much time passed!
Also important is what the number size of each subreddit represents. It's not unique users nor does it usually mean a total active users. It's a rough gauge of popularity of the sub topic at some point(s) in its history, and subscribers there also are subscribed to many other places. I guess the main point I'm saying is that the small niche subs are important for their purposes, but if many of the large ones are participating in the blackout that means a commonality of the users. Yes, it's mods that did it, but all the subs I saw that had announcement posts had a lot of agreement on doing it from regular users too. I do agree there will be some shakeup to reduce this ability again.
Also, what happens after today is important too. That's when the users really shine, if many of them who still exist and haven't deleted accounts just don't go back. Reddit will still go on even with that, as it certainly won't be a majority, but there will be ripples from this and the next weeks and months.
Argh, thank you for the correction. I thought it sounded too good to be true. As mentioned in the comments below, it's actually 7,742 out of 13,000 active subs that are dark. Out of a total of 3 million subreddits.
The fact that I'm enjoying this discussion means that I'm still addicted to something Reddit-like. I hope this or some other alternative really takes off in the next few days, otherwise I think many people will just reluctantly return to Reddit
I've seen a lot of growth here, despite the ddos protection causing issue with syncing to other instances. So my migration plan will be to use kbin for all I can, especially discussions / being an active user, while using Reddit for topics that I don't see have a good replacement yet (while checking frequently if that changes). The goal being to pull out of more and more subs on Reddit until I can just leave the entire thing behind. Maybe there will be the odd sub that will be lost / left behind, but that would be a minor price at the end of the day.
I was on Reddit for 15 years and r/funny was never funny IMO. Reddit has always had pretty cringe attempts at culture/humour, the ‘narwhal bacons at midnight’ attempts at 4chan-lite culture was lame over a decade ago.
What concerns me is that they're driving out the more empathetic-minded users with this they'll just mirror and """reopen""" already extremely popular subs. and will remake it into sort of a Truth Social/Twitter demographic platform. That way they'll have Facebook, Twitter AND Reddit,
I'll be honest, I was cozy there and had my account for like over 15 years. I hated making new accounts and starting over.
But what they're doing to it doesn't make it worth staying there. And honestly, decentralization is a better way to do this by order of magnitude.
Decentralization is going to probably be the #1 tool to fight fascism in the next few upcoming years. And starting over is a PITA but I'm glad i did it.
Hey OP, you have to click on the Discord link for the up-to-date numbers as the website lags. This is right now.
While Reddit has 100k+ subs, these are the popular ones participating. Subs that have 40m subscribers. So having over 8k participating/pledged is still huge!! (The website has subscriptions listed.) The numbers will be going down as more timezones hit Jun 14 though.
Hope my image link worked!
EDIT: It worked :)
Also, found a good quote by Canadian activist /writer Cory Doctorow:
"The decision not to act, not to blackout now, is the decision to lose Reddit in slow stages," he said. "Better to have it all go now in a gambit to save it, to discipline the firm and its shortsightedness than to sit there and watch while something that matters to you goes through a slow decline … in this very undignified way."
Yep, the site itself is displaying something very similar right now.
As far as I know, everyone listed on the site pledged to support it, so it's a shame that 350 odd haven't committed to the blackout.
I'd be half interested to see what an up-to-date All looks like right now, but I don't want to add even a single number to usage metrics.
Technically the protest hasn't happened yet and half of the subs (according to the ticker at the top) are already dark.
Wow, good job guys. I know a lot of people are saying this won't do much for 48hrs (we don't know how many will stay dark longer), but half of your community participating is MASSIVE.
I took my sub (600k) private as soon as it was the 12th in New Zealand, and will not bring it back until it's no longer the 14th in Honolulu.
This does come out to a bit longer than the 48 hours promised, but I think it fits the spirit of the protest better... I'm just sad I didn't know about all the fun tools to watch subs going private until hours after I took mine down.
reddark.untone.uk
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