Spirited debate today on Mastodon about the new opt-in search capability. Some people think it should be opt-out. Whatever you think about this, perhaps let's all just step back and appreciate that a complex requested feature has been added which will fundamentally change the utility of Mastodon for academics, scientists, journalists and organizations as well as ordinary users. Thank you Mastodon devs! We spoke and you listened.
@mastodonmigration This is great. I think opt-in is probably good to preserve privacy. The key issue for me (to make it useful to work) is whether we can search across the entirety of Mastodon, or is it still restricted to “accounts known to my instance”. That is a huge limitation for me, as I can’t find posts on various niche topics unless I follow the poster (or someone in my instance does).
@mastodonmigration
Opt-in or out, I always check settings on software that changes settings when updated.
Mastodon routinely keeps checking "Display from which app you sent a post" when updated and I uncheck it.
@mastodonmigration I think the creation of an account setup/configuration wizard much like some WP plugins have, could work well to take people through the most important configs & point out the benefits of turning on search & other settings
@dalereardon It's a good idea, and from some of the Mastodon dev comments seems to be something that may be on the horizon. Would just point out that such things are not trivial, and introduce development and test requirements and issues in their own right. Nothing is simple with production software platforms of this scope and complexity. Never-the-less certainly it is possible and would be a good capabity.
@mastodonmigration Mastodon was "no text search" when current users joined, so search should be opt-in. Don't make major privacy changes with active user permission. That's what Facebook does, and one of the big reasons I avoid using them.
@CurtAdams Agreed. Opt-in shows respect for current users. But whatever one thinks of this issue, hopefully we can move on and focus now on making people aware of this new capability and its potential to elevate the platform. For instance, search now makes Mastodon a viable archival resource. The implications are phenominal.
@punko hmmm... not sure you are being entirely honest. If your intent was to inspiring introspection, there are probably less aggressive ways to do so than calling someone a "boot licker". In fact, such name calling seems more an attempt to cause hurt. You are new here, but one of the hallmarks of Mastodon is the ability to disagree without being disagreeable. But if your intent is indeed to get blocked by this account and you continue to make ad hominem comments, you will succeed.
@kev@talon hopefully soonner rather then later, as right now 4.1X is released as stable, with 4.2.0 in beta,, while hometown's at core 4.0.6. so hopefully we'll be playing catch up soon.
@suldrew Believe so too, because it demonstrates respect for users by not forcing changes on them. But overall just thankful that we can move forward and enjoy the benefits that search will afford for the platform.
@mastodonmigration@suldrew I'm team opt out. The indifferent won't opt in and the feature will be useless without a critical mass. Just heavily promote how to opt out.
@ariaflame@mastodonmigration@suldrew I actually agree. However there was a discussion on how to make Mastodon a better user experience for those landing here from other places. The number one reason for people not sticking around was discovery and search. If there's a concensus that the feature isn't wanted that's fine but then I personally don't want to hear any complaining that Mastodon can't attract users.
@mike@ariaflame@suldrew Perhaps your fears are unfounded. Suspect that a majority of users want their posts to be searchable if only so they can find their own old posts. There will certainly be lots of promotion and guidance on how to enable and use it. Search effectively makes Mastodon an archival system. Suspect it will be enormously popular, and directly responsible for another wave of growth for the platform, particularly among science, academic and journalistic communities.
@mastodonmigration with ES enabled, this was already possible, wasn't it? It just doesn't work very well, ime. I'm hoping the addition of search operators will help.
@mastodonmigration@ariaflame@suldrew Perhaps you are correct. I'd wager no more than 25% opt in and I think that's being optimistic. Most will be indifferent and therefore won't bother to opt in but conversely wouldn't be bothered by being automatically included in searches.
@mike@mastodonmigration@suldrew Opt out doesn't work already though. Take, for example, when you visit a new vendor site to purchase something. You opt out of further advertising from them. Yet, years later, you are still spammed from that vendor. All you wanted was one item. Opt out consistently fails. Let people choose if they want something by opting in.
@ang6666@mastodonmigration@suldrew So you're calling into question the integrity of the Mastodon development team? Personally I run under the assumption that they'll implement a feature that works.
@mike@mastodonmigration@suldrew I am sure their intent is fine, but opt out has not worked historically. I am not inclined to believe it will magically work ever.
@mastodonmigration#Mastodon users have been begging for this features for years, and the devs have ignored them consistently. The only reason they are acquiescing now is because former #Twitter users are begging for it. The devs seem to care more about disaffected #Twitter user feedback than the feedback of the very #Mastodon users who have helped build #Mastodon up to what it is today.
@realcaseyrollins Yes, it deserves thanks. Search in a distributed network is a very complex capability requiring a great deal of development and testing effort. People tend to grossly underestimate the difficulty of rolling out new capacities in production software used by millions of people. Whether it could have be implemented sooner is something that can be debated, but the truth is that it is here now, and seems to work very well. It is very deserving of our thanks and support.
@mastodonmigration This wasn’t a problem of it being hard, it was a problem of the devs overtly and bluntly denying #Mastodon community feedback, while listening to feedback from former #Twitter users who are rejecting #Mastodon due to the lack of this feature.
Also @alex how hard is functional search to actually integrate? I couldn’t imagine it being that hard, but you’ve done it before, so I’m sure you’d know better than me.
@realcaseyrollins@mastodonmigration Absolutely. They already have full text search, it was just a matter of removing the intentional restrictions they placed on it. This is why Gab and Truth Social were able to immediately fix search.
I will say, search is hard. Mastodon requires running a separate ElasticSearch instance to do it. But they already had that working for years.
@realcaseyrollins@mastodonmigration Gargron enjoyed being a little tyrant until Bluesky and Threads came along. He monopolized the space and they made him fear for his livelihood. That's why Mastodong is being cooperative now.
@realcaseyrollins@alex Regarding the issue of search being rejected by the community before the TwitterMigration. It is certainly true that there has been a long vocal debate amoung Mastodon users, with some long time users very leery of search because of the way it had been used on Twitter to harass users. The balance of opinion shifted on this over time and it was in no small part due to the influx from Twitter. This just seems like a community evolution.
Click Preferences (on right near bottom [gear icon]) >>> Click Public Profile (on left near top [person icon]) >>> Click Privacy and reach box (near top [lock icon]) >>> Under Search (scroll down middle of page) Check box "Include public post in search results" to enable your posts to be searchable
@wtwagg It will be soon. This is the normal process for rolling out software upgrades. They first appear on instances that update frequently with beta version code. This way updates can be tested before they are released to all. Once stabilized then the new software becomes available to all instances and they can update once they feel comfortable with the release.
Most servers will wait for after the beta phase before upgrading. Servers will also need to enable full-text search, which means you need a stronger machine, which costs more money. So, not all servers will have it.
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