Can we talk about how much the American healthcare system sucks?

So I have an ulcer. I dry heave at least once a day and I haven’t eaten in 21 days. (Please do not give me advice, I hate it, I don’t want medical advice from people over the internet. At best, if you do, I’ll respond with a “thanks.”)

I’m in a somewhat smaller town, not really small, about 80,000 people maybe. There is exactly one gastroenterologist in this town. I went to him when I hadn’t eaten in 6 days. For a $50 copay, he said to take some Mylanta along with the Protonix I was already taking and call him in two weeks if I wasn’t better. So I call him yesterday. I talk to the nurse. I tell her all my symptoms, none of which have changed. She sounds very concerned.

I hear nothing all day. This morning, I call again. The doctor hasn’t even gotten to my information. So the nurse sends a message that I called again, which he probably also won’t see.

I have tried to get a second opinion, or just another prescription for something, but there is not a single gastroenterologist within a 90 minute drive that would see me within three months. I’m pretty sure if I don’t eat for three months, I’ll be pretty dead. I mean, I’m living on Ensure and Gatorade, but I doubt that will get me to three more months.

Oh, and this is the second time this has happened. The first time, I had to take a bunch of tests like a CT scan and an X-Ray and a blood panel and they found nothing. I had a scheduled colonoscopy anyway, so they just went down my throat as well and that’s when they found the ulcer. No one even suggested an ulcer before that.

Why am I saying all of this? I’m not even complaining about all of this. I’m complaining about the fact that this has cost me almost $2000 already and I feel lucky because I have good insurance. I’m not poor, but I don’t really have $2000 to spare. I’m paying it off in installments, but god damn, I have to pay all of this money and they have stopped even giving a shit about me.

What would someone in my position without insurance even do? Die? That’s what conservatives fucking want.

We need universal healthcare and a complete overhaul of the healthcare system now.

And any time you hear someone complain about how long a wait you have in Canada or the UK to see someone to help you and how America has the best healthcare system in the world and how people from other countries come here for treatment, send them to this post before telling them to get fucked.

TL;DR No one gives a shit about you in American healthcare except maybe the nurses and all they do is suck money out of your bank account.

dudinax,

My doctor’s nurse called me up and said I had a high liver enzyme. “What does that mean?” “You can’t drink alcohol.” “But what’s going on with my liver?” “I don’t have the details, you’ll have to talk to the doctor.” The doctor moved away before I could get in to see her.

I called her partner. “New patients are six months out.” Six month’s later: “Sorry the doctor moved away.”

Pick a random doctor in the phone book. “New patients are six months out.” Six months pass. I miss the appointment. “I want to reschedule.” “Sorry, the doctor won’t see patients who miss their first appointment.” I’m trying to get in to the next doctor. So far I have no idea what’s wrong with my liver.

Among other problems, it turns out our local health care group was bought out by venture capitalists. Their mismanagement is part of why so many doctors are leaving.

Asifall,

Might be worth trying to get the records, they’re legally obligated to give them to you on request.

WoahWoah,

You’re the person that made the “shitting out the neck of their shirt” comment that had me dying laughing. 🤣

I’ve started just getting bloodwork done out of pocket instead of: going to a doctor, getting the blood work order, going to the lab, getting the draw, making an appointment with the doctor again, returning, and then getting the results.

Now I just pay $50, get the results myself, and then go to a doctor if I need to address something in the results that I can’t figure out by googling. I know it’s absurd, and I have insurance, but to get one blood test is an hour to go to the doctor, wait, go to the clinic room, wait, talk to the doctor for 5min, leave, go to the lab, repeat, then go back to the doctor abs do it again. It ends up being like 3-4 hours over multiple days and in the middle of the workday. For the doctor, it’s two 5min conversations that are PART of their workday.

So, yeah. I tend to just run my own diagnostic blood tests and Google. That’s how inconvenient and frustrating the medical system is even WITH insurance.

And, to be clear, I don’t suggest anyone else do this.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

When I talked to the nurse yesterday, she asked how much Ensure I was drinking. I said I had a bottle twice a day. She said, “that’s all you’re having?” I asked if I should drink it more often and she said, “I would, but don’t take my advice because I’m not the doctor.” Gee, thanks lady.

TranscendentalEmpire,

Not defending the American medical system, or your specific provider, some are truly just in it for the money. However, the system kind of makes you complicit if you want to keep your doors open.

Providers are leaving the field in droves, especially the specialist. Management usually has full control over your time, and tends to pack in more patients than it’s really possible to treat and follow up on. The compensation isn’t really a huge motivating factor, especially for younger providers. There are plenty more financially rewarding jobs out there that require a lot less schooling and working hours.

I’m not saying that you need to do this, but if there are others in your situation who would like some advice…

Two teaspoons of sodium alginate, one teaspoon calcium carbonate, and one teaspoon of baking soda mixed together via electric hand frother will create a thick slime that helps coat your stomach lining. It’s been proven to reduce the symptoms that cause ulcerations, and proven to aid other treatments for peptic ulcers.

It also has the benefit of expanding in your stomach to make it feel as if you have eaten, which tends to help with some of the nausea.

AttackBunny,

I know you don’t want advice. I know, but, there are meal replacements, that aren’t nothing but sugar, corn and soy crap, and are much more nutritionally complete. May be worth looking into them. Huel and Soylent (sold in Target for sure) are the first that come to mind. I understand if your reply is “thanks” just wanted to throw that out there, because I feel your pain.

I have ALL kinds of GI issues. The latest GI I saw, after waiting like 2 years during covid (had one appt before lockdowns, and then had to wait), and then another like 4 months after I called to book an appointment, ran a HIDA scan, which came back as low/abnormal. His answer? Oh, well it’s too close to normal to do surgery, so just take miralax and don’t eat fatty foods. Gee thanks, why didn’t I think of that, professionally trained guesser extortionist? When asked if there were going to be long term effects from taking a laxative, like, idk making constipation worse, his answer? IDK, maybe?

Good luck

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think I could handle Soylent from what I’ve seen and read about it. I can just about take the Ensure without feeling too sick. I think the sweetness actually helps.

But now I’m just stunned. The gastro’s nurse just called me back and said first thing, “he wants you to have small and regular meals.” I don’t know how many more times I have to tell this asshole that I’m not eating.

SkyezOpen,

That’s a severe calorie deficit. A friend who had ulcers told me about ensure plus, it’s like 350 calories per bottle vs 220 for regular ensure. 3 or more a day should help keep you from wasting away while the medical system does what it does. The nurse probably isn’t legally allowed to give medical advice, but they absolutely know their shit and I would definitely listen to whatever “suggestions” they give you.

qyron,

That was morally painful to read.

As someone who lives in a country with a national healthcare system, this kind of situation just disgusts me.

You’d probably be in an hospital bed here, waiting for emergency surgery, considering your condition.

I sincerely hope you can find any other doctor capable of helping you, quickly.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I wish I lived in a sane country.

BallShapedMan,
@BallShapedMan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s fucked and I’m sorry you’re a victim to it.

There are small pockets where it doesn’t suck. My current company has amazing benefits where my youngest had to have major surgery and it literally cost $100. My previous company however my wife had to have minor surgery and 6 years later we still owe them $23k. We’re paying it off slowly…

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

$23k is insane. This is what I mean. It’s so broken.

BallShapedMan,
@BallShapedMan@lemmy.world avatar

Very much so!

Nemo,

Honestly, I got much better and more attentive medical care when I was broke and on Medicaid than in the years since I got private insurance.

Like you said, it takes forever to get an appointment (which might get cancelled without rescheduling) and when you do go in, they just refer you somewhere else, possibly out-of-network. At the Medicaid clinics, they do it all in-house and typically same-day.

I’m fully on the Medicaid for All train.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’d say Medicare for all. It’s even better than Medicaid.

Furbag,

I’ll commiserate with you on the fact that the healthcare system is totally broken. My Mom has had a problem with one of her leg nerves for over a year and a half now, and she has been going in to see specialists, getting told “this is what you have, here’s what we can do”, getting the prescription/treatment, having it not work at all, and then gets told to get back in line for another appointment with several weeks, if not months, of lead time. Even when she gets put on a priority list for when there are cancellations, there’s almost never a cancellation that let’s her get in earlier than her original appointment.

In her case, I’m not blaming the doctors. They are trying their best. I just don’t understand how it can take 1-2 months per visit, or even upwards of 6 months, and meanwhile she is in agonizing pain whenever she stands or walks too long.

Meanwhile, I just paid out $6k in dental bills this year alone because my regular dentist missed a cavity until it became bad enough that it required a root canal, but they tried to fill it first and it didn’t work, so then I had to pay for the botched filling procedure (partially covered by insurance), and a root canal that sadly doesn’t seem to have made the tooth any less sensitive, and copayment fees to other dental providers for second opinions because my tooth still hurts even after all they did to it and I want to know what else could do to help, and now I am looking at paying another $3000+ to have the tooth extracted and replaced with a prosthetic implant, which was an option in the first place but they encouraged me to try the fillings and the root canal to “save” the tooth first. Now, I’m trying to wait until January 1st to have my benefits reset so it softens the blow significantly, but until then I’m suffering with this zombie tooth rotting away in my mouth.

The healthcare system in America is fucking garbage and needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with a human-first mindset, not a for-profit mindset.

I hope you are able to get the treatment you deserve. Stay strong and stay positive.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks, I appreciate it. My father got $20,000 worth of dental work for free in Costa Rica and got a vacation in Costa Rica out of it.

Agrivar,

My father got $20,000 worth of dental work for free in Costa Rica and got a vacation in Costa Rica out of it.

HOW?!? I probably need close to that much dental work done and there are literally no dentists in a 50-mile radius that are accepting new patients.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This was 20 years ago. So I can’t help you there.

DharmaCurious,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

How free? My mom needs all of her remaining teeth extracted (23), plus dentures made.

jeffw,

If she’s old enough, Medicare will cover extractions and a single set of dentures per lifetime

DharmaCurious,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

She’s on Medicare due to disability, but they’ve told her they don’t cover dental. Any idea how we find out more?

jeffw,

Ah shit, I was think of my local Medicaid policy. Yeah, Medicare doesn’t usually cover dental, unless you’re on a Medicare advantage plan that includes it. If she’s got a disability, it might be worth looking at Medicaid, although not every state will have a plan that covers dental and not every state took the ACA expansion.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

He said, and as I told someone else, this was 20 years ago, that all medical care is provided free for everyone within Costa Rica’s borders.

DharmaCurious,
@DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

Wow. That’s incredible.

andyburke,
andyburke avatar

I know you don't want advice, but I want to share some information that may be important and helpful for you: recent studies have shown ulcers are essentially an infection and antibiotics have some success in treating them.

For too long doctors thought it had to do with stress or diet, but it's an infection.

medgremlin,

As a former healthcare support staff professional and current medical student, I want you to know that I hate it just as much as you do. I can’t make any explanations for that GI, but my least favorite part of medicine is when there isn’t a good answer, or enough time, or the right treatment is just too expensive…I hate it when the capitalist bullshit medical system gets in the way of actually practicing medicine.

AA5B,

What would someone in my position without insurance even do? Die?

Even those who have good insurance and can afford …… my doctor’s office stopped refilling my prescription, stopped returning my calls, after he had expressed concern about not wanting me to “stroke out” over my condition. I doubt it magically fixed itself, but I’m still having a hard time overcoming inertia to find a new doctor

Jackthelad,

I’ve never heard anyone say that the American healthcare system is the best in the world. Even from critics of universal healthcare.

The best systems are mixed systems like you see in Germany or the Netherlands. As someone from the UK, don’t fall for the propaganda about the NHS. It’s really not very good.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It’s said by politicians.

gravitas_deficiency,

And you can tell when a politician is lying by whether or not their lips are moving

merridew,

It’s not very good now that the Tories have starved it of funds for over a decade with a view to selling it off.

In 2005, Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party was co-authored Jeremy Hunt Michael Gove, David Gauke, and Kwasi Kwarteng, among others.

On page 78, it states that

Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.

And on page 74 asserts that

patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, [should] purchase health care from the provider of their choice

NHS c. 2009 was excellent. Don’t forget that.

Jackthelad,

Oh great, this conspiracy theory again.

The one area of public policy in the UK that has unanimity between the parties is the NHS. Any party that “sold the NHS off” would be out of power for a long time. It would be electorally foolish.

Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.

So like the two countries I listed earlier then. Where they have universal healthcare provided by affordable insurance systems. Nothing like the US.

patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, [should] purchase health care from the provider of their choice

Wow. Patients given choice_? Perish the thought! You should be forced to have mediocre healthcare, peasant!

NHS c. 2009 was excellent. Don’t forget that.

Healthcare outcomes for diseases like cancer, heart disease etc were as low as countries in Eastern Europe. I don’t care how “efficient” a healthcare system is if it isn’t doing it’s main job of keeping people alive.

merridew,

Wow. Patients given choice? Perish the thought! You should be forced to have mediocre healthcare, peasant!

Do you think private healthcare is illegal in the UK or something? Have you not heard of people going private?

It is a bold move to say that “Tories want to privatise nationalised services” is a conspiracy theory, given the number of times they have already done it.

  • British Aerospace
  • British Gas
  • British Airways
  • British Petroleum (BP)
  • All 10 Regional Water Authorities
  • National Power
  • British Rail
  • Royal Mail
  • The National Probation Service
  • The Forensics Science Service

ETA: They also tried it with the Forestry Commission.

It was thought that British Rail was so beloved that no one would dare sell that off, too.

Jackthelad,

Yes, you can go private in the UK, but it’s more expensive than it could be because the private companies have to subsidise the NHS.

They privatised those industries fairly quickly, why is it taking them so long to do it with the NHS, if it’s definitely going to happen as people keep telling me?

Let’s be honest, it’s just scaremongering bollocks that politicians employ to get you to vote for them. Labour do it with the NHS, the Conservatives do it with the economy. It’s all shit.

merridew,

Em, no. No it isn’t. Private healthcare gets to cherry pick off all the more straightforward stuff (knee replacements, dermatology) but curiously enough is quite content for the NHS to handle all the expensive stuff (intensive care, trauma).

It took over 40 years to privatise everything on that list. Not exactly “fairly quick”.

Feel free to consider it “scaremongering bollocks” all you like, but be aware that government ministers literally wrote a book about how much they want to do it.

And be aware everyone thought that British Rail would never be privatised, either. But of course it was. After it had been run into the ground through underfunding.

PugJesus, (edited )
PugJesus avatar

I’ve never heard anyone say that the American healthcare system is the best in the world. Even from critics of universal healthcare.

Count yourself lucky. I live in a conservative area in the US, and it is a constant refrain.

Worst part is, these people bitch about their own healthcare quality and costs all the time. It's just...

... exhausting.

Mog_fanatic,

Second this. I’ve heard it many many many many times. “You may have to pay but you won’t wait and it’s the best in the world! People come from all over the world here for treatment!”

dan1101,

Sorry to hear about everything you’re going through and how much it costs for no treatment. I think a lot of doctors do care but they are overworked and have to constantly battle hospitals and insurance companies. A lot of them seem to be seeing less patients which is not going to be good, and many are retiring or burning out. There are also now more seniors than people under 17, the seniors require more care. Article on the doctor shortage: time.com/…/physician-shortage-challenges-solution…

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks. I understand what you’re saying, but when I tell a doctor I’m not eating twice and he says to me keep taking your pills before you eat, I don’t think he gives a fuck. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he’s apparently a terrible doctor. And I don’t have anyone else I can go to. I mean I know why. This is one of the shittiest towns in the country, Terre Haute, Indiana, but still…

dan1101,

Yeah that doctor definitely is not doing their job. What do you call the person that finishes LAST in medical school? Doctor.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I was concerned when I first met him. The guy has terrible teeth. That alone is not a good sign of a doctor. A doctor that doesn’t care about his own health?

Zink,

Yikes. He doesn’t sound like the guy for the job.

Is there any way you can see a doctor near Indianapolis, or maybe one of the towns between you and there? I know that places a burden on you, which should not be necessary. However, one unfortunate aspect of our healthcare system is that you often must advocate for yourself to get decent results. This is even true (especially true) of mental health, which doesn’t exactly make a ton of sense.

My PCP and a treatment center I go to for one of my medications are both about a half hour away, because I don’t want to change away from them. If you can make a one-hour drive to a new doctor happen, it may be worth it for your health and sanity.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve called those doctors and none of them have time to see me. No one within a 90 minute drive. Although I’m wondering if I just go to an ER in Indy and demand to see a gastroenterologist if that would work.

Zink,

Jeez. At this point I might just make appointments anywhere I could get them, even further away, and see if I like the first ones to get me seen. Granted, that’s easier said than done.

The ER route might have some potential as first step too. A legitimate one ass well. I mean this sounds to me like an emergency that is threatening your health in the short term.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I just don’t know if the ER route would work and it would end up with another huge bill.

Zink,

I’m not in any medical field, but compared with some of the shit they see at the ER I have to think they’d pay attention when you say you have a messed up stomach and haven’t eaten in three weeks.

The financial shit show is something else entirely. It will depend on whatever deductibles, coinsurance, and copays you have in your plan, assuming you do have insurance. Such a mess. But it might get to the point of choosing between your life and your money. Which of course is bullshit, but in the short term that’s the system we were born into.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

My wife’s cousin is a GP. We’re going to call him and see what he thinks about the ER thing.

Zink,

Sounds like an excellent plan. Maybe you’ll get lucky and he will have some thoughts? Maybe not, lol, but good luck!

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I sure hope so. Thanks!

gowan,

Profit motives in health care are fucking stupid. End of discussion.

Blaze,
@Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Sorry to hear that…

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I appreciate it.

JPAKx4,

I’m so sorry you have to go through all this crap. I’m lucky that I live in the Houston area, so tons of doctors and even luckier that I have amazing health insurance. Still had to pay thousands of dollars for a surgery since the insurance didn’t want to cover it (it was slightly “experimental”, but it also worked). The US system is screwed up, favors the wealthy, and has lots of profit motives that are counter productive for the “consumers”.

What I hate is that people defend it. I hear arguments about how if there was a one payer system then doctor choice and quality would go down, or that it would hurt rural hospitals. And it’s just all false, but no matter how much you show studies or explain they just keep pivoting. It’s not even a majority of people, but since it’s a vocal minority that votes more, it still hasn’t changed.

gowan,

First get your ass to the ER. This addresses your immediate concern.

Second if it exists look for hospitals that have residency programs. There frequently is lower costs associated with these programs.

You can try to negotiate payment plans with the accounts receivable people ahead of time to work on payment plans

Edit: just realized OP has me blocked. Anyone want to pass this on?

ElleChaise,

I wonder if they blocked you for giving advice, or already had you blocked prior to this post. Huh.

gowan,

Prior to this post. I disagreed with their views and they blocked me for “lying”.

The sad part is we were simultaneously discussing a different issue in a different thread where it was becoming clear that they did not understand what “available” or “choice” meant.

fkn,

This probably won’t help you since you live in a small town.

Finding a doctor in the united states sucks. Literally the worst experience I have ever had was transitioning to a PPO insurance policy after being in a combine managed HMO / healthcare group.

People told me for years “oh, that health care provider sucks. You get sub par care and nobody ever knows your name.” You know what else I got? Same day doctor visits and same day specialists, literally anytime I wanted or needed anything. I had reasonable medical care at a reasonable schedule for a reasonable price.

When my insurance switched to a PPO, people told me “oh, you will love this doctor! He is so great!” And… every… single… time… it is exactly as you described. “New patients are 6 months out.” And when I finally got a primary care doctor, they would recommend specialist who were their friends also in private practices with 6 months waiting lists.

Private practice medical care is an absolute joke. It’s another shitty system the boomers saw their parents use successfully that simply doesn’t work today.

The solution was to find a high quality medical group in my city. It took me nearly a year to figure it out. Same day doctor visits? Done. Same week specialists? Done. Same system / in network urgent care at the same price as a regular doctors visit? Done.

I don’t care which doctor I see, I just need medical care.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly. I just want someone to help me. Apparently that’s too much to ask.

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