Updated - programming.dev defederation on hold

Update: In light of the programming.dev update here programming.dev/post/8399272, the defederation is no longer going ahead.

However, something more needs to be said. Even here on Blahaj, some of our users took issue with the choice to defederate over this issue.

So I would like to give some background and context.

Blahaj Zone exists, because both Kaity and I left mainstream social media to escape transphobia. Reddit, with its lackluster approach to fighting transphobia, and twitter, with its outright celebration of transphobia pushed us here, to the fediverse, and to create Blahaj Zone and Blahaj Lemmy.

To that end, we will continue to treat transphobia seriously. Our goal is to create a space where gender diverse folk can exist and let our defenses down a little, where we don’t have to worry about getting dragged in to an argument with a transphobe, or a bad faith actor “just asking questions”.

If you are looking for a more reddit like experience, where in the interest of increased engagement, we let low level transphobia slide, and push responsibility for dealing with it on to community mods and individual users, then you will likely not be happy with blahaj going forward. If you choose to stay here, understand that we may defederate again in the future over similar issues.

The choice is yours.

======

It has recently been brought to my attention that the lead admin of programming.dev is engaging in ongoing transphobia.

You can see the conversation in question here programming.dev/comment/6131539

For that reason we will be defederating from programming.dev in 48 hours.

There are only three communities on that instance used by small number of our users, so this won’t have a big impact, but if you are one of those users, you will need to use an alt account on another instance if you wish to access the communities.

spaduf,

Isn’t Ategon the lead admin? And maybe I’m mistaken but I also thought she was trans?

Ategon,
@Ategon@programming.dev avatar

The way the instance is set up theres multiple lead admins

snowe tends to be in charge of infrastructure side of things while I do development and community management. snowe is listed first in the admin list but I basically have the exact same access to the site resources

Not trans, just use any/all pronouns

Adramis,

If I cut out everyone in my life that is 99% of the time a staunch ally, but still eats at Chick-Fil-A, my life would be very, very empty. No one is ever going to be a perfect ally / comrade, even queer people. I feel like it’s especially telling that the person got so heated because they want to be an ally and don’t want people to abandon them because they played a single stupid fucking game. Especially because there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism, it’s easy to death-of-the-author JKR without realizing the direct transphobia in the game. A lot of the direct transphobia in Hogwarts Legacy isn’t obvious (like misgendering the token trans in the game files) and most people don’t know about it. Does that suck? Yeah. But that doesn’t mean those people are transphobes or bad faith actors.

I get that we need to have a sharp eye to make sure bad faith actors don’t fly under the radar, but false positives do a lot of harm too. I really feel like this came down more to Hexbear doing what Hexbear does and setting the entire thread on fire than it points to transphobia on the programming.dev admin’s side. Of course people are going to get stupid when you’re getting insulted, flamed, and spammed with stupid-ass emoji. If they’re willing to defed from Hexbear and acknowledge the direct transphobia in the game, that would go a long way.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This isn’t that.

This is the lead (cis) admin of a Fediverse instance telling trans people that a Potter game is “the opposite of transphobic” and then arguing with trans folk about it, diminishing the relevance of their pronouns as a side issue, and calling trans folk “insane” for having an issue with the game.

The hexbear pile-on clearly got to them, but that’s not an excuse for the other behaviour. I need to know that other admins will deal with transphobia even when it’s hard, not that they’ll resort to it when they’re frustrated.

Feathercrown,

Having read the thread I really don’t think the programming.dev admin was being transphobic. I know I’m cis so I’m less likely to see transphobia, and I am more lenient with my judgement, but it really looks like they were at worst abrasive or indifferent towards the sensitivities of the issue at hand, and not outright transphobic.

Taking into account that this type of behavior is common in tech debates and that they have explicitly shown their support for trans people elsewhere, I believe that they are not transphobic, just bothersome to you guys in this debate topic because of how important it is to you to treat it with higher respect than some random topic.

TheAlbatross,

Tell me more, cis person from another instance, how the queer people should run their instance

Feathercrown,

Welp… I knew this wouldn’t be productive. Just trying to respectfully provide an alternative opinion. Don’t dismiss others because of who they are, dismiss them because of what they say. If what I say is wrong then you’ll have a good reason to dismiss me without resorting to my gender identity.

Edit: To be clear, you can run this instance however you want, and nothing I say can take that away from you. I just think you’re acting on faulty information, so the result of this defederation won’t align with your intentions.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Having read the thread I really don’t think the programming.dev admin was being transphobic. I know I’m cis so I’m less likely to see transphobia, and I am more lenient with my judgement,

Being respectful would have had you stop right there. Instead you decided to continue and blame the “oh so sensitive trans people” for rightfully calling out shitty behavior.

Feathercrown,

I have been respectful by staying out of top-level discussion to give your voices primary visibility and by qualifying my statements with my identity so that you can choose to value or discount them as you see fit. But I believe diversity of opinion is critical to making important decisions, so I have provided some. Let’s not waste any space getting personal when there is nothing more to say here that would be useful for the purposes of this overall thread.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

but it really looks like they were at worst abrasive or indifferent towards the sensitivities of the issue at hand, and not outright transphobic.

I believe that they are not transphobic, just bothersome to you guys in this debate topic because of how important it is to you to treat it with higher respect than some random topic.

But I believe diversity of opinion is critical to making important decisions, so I have provided some.

Being permissive of shitty behaviors and transphobic attitudes while being dismissive of the concerns of the people who are targeted by these behaviors is not good “diversity of opinion.” I’m sorry you feel that I’m dismissing your opinion, but maybe you should reconsider the way you tell queer people how to handle bad actors.

Feathercrown, (edited )

Valid, I’ll do a self-eval of my approach later. However, there is something that I need to address first:

Being permissive of shitty behaviors and transphobic attitudes

My point is that their behaviors aren’t, in fact, transphobic*, just insensitive to the weight that the topic demands (which you could call shitty). I’m not dismissing people’s concerns-- I think it’s right to be vigilant when you see potentially transphobic comments-- I just think that once you evaluate the source of that concern it turns out to be not the issue that it may appear to be. Causing emotional turmoil without good reason is in itself bad, but also not transphobic.

  • with the exception of telling a trans person that her pronouns are unimportant, which I won’t defend

Edit: You know, I added that asterisk after I reviewed the thread, but I realized now: how can I defend the admin here if there is actually something like this? Sure, it’s based on ignorance and not hate, but given that and his generally insensitive approach, and his position of power on the instance, it does make sense to consider defederation. I’ll leave you to it, sorry. I do think that as he’s otherwise an ally and he didn’t do this out of hate, it may be best not to defederate-- but that’s not a decision I should or can make for your community.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Hey, good on you.

Fal,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar
  • with the exception of telling a trans person that her pronouns are unimportant, which I won’t defend

But this isn’t what happened. He said that it isn’t reasonable to get offended at being referred to as “they” because not all clients show names the same way, and there’s no reasonable way for him to know what pronouns to use.

Feathercrown,

Sorry, they really aren’t prominently displayed everywhere.

Reasonable and respectful

And getting offended by it really isn’t helping your case here.

Less reasonable and respectful, depending on interpretation could be meant in the context of the misunderstanding or meant in general. This is a very sensitive topic for people and dismissing it like this is not a good move, even if you don’t think it’s transphobia-- which is valid, definitions vary widely, I’m not sure it would fit my own even. People were defining it fairly broadly and I’m not getting into a definitions argument here so I went with their definitions for now.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

just think you’re acting on faulty information, so the result of this defederation won’t align with your intentions

I have been managing communities online and offline for decades. I am also a member of the minority group impacted by this issue.

You do not have the same lived experience or familiarity with the issue at hand

When I tell you that I’m acting in an informed and considered way, I hope you respect that.

I am also in talks with an admin from programming.dev to try and resolve this.

I appreciate that your comment was made in good will, but implying that I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m somehow failing to understand the topic at hand is not helping anything

drcobaltjedi,

So, I’m not the person you’re replying too, nor am I a member of this minority group, but I do consider myself an ally. I do not personally know how offensive what was said is so I won’t comment saying “it’s not that bad” or anything of the sort.

But this is a thing I’ve seen in leftest communities where we don’t know when to use the carrot vs when to use the stick. I’ll admit I’ve said things in hindsight I feel awful about. But I’ve corrected that behavior because my friends knowing my good intentions lead me to be a better person. Here and like other similar communites however instead of talking to people in good faith to try to correct their behavior instead choose to punish and ostrisize them.

I don’t know what your admin team’s chat with the programming.dev admin team looks like, but I hope it can be resolved. I’ll be very disapoinyed with my admins if it can’t and will leave in solidarity.

Adramis,

I appreciate the input but you’re going to get massacred.

Poxlox,

Meanwhile they have 50 pts of people who agree

Rolder,

Sorry we only deal in absolutes here, you can only be a complete transphobe.

RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
@RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

[I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

Deebster,
@Deebster@programming.dev avatar

Image of comic XKCD 2501, Average Familiarity

You’re assuming bad faith instead of remembering Hanlon’s razor. programming.dev’s technical admin is not your enemy.

vzq,

When confronted with something he did wrong, he chose to double down.

We know what kind of person he is.

Fal,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar

What exactly did he do wrong? I’m super confused about what’s transphobic about the mod’s responses, other than that they disagreed with what a trans person (from hexbear no less) was saying

vzq, (edited )

All the Harry Potter stuff aside, he was called out for using the wrong pronoun for someone. That’s fair, it happens. A normal person just apologizes and moves on.

Our friend gets instead decides to get all “trans people are too sensitive and this is why no one likes you”. That’s a pretty big yikes.

The fact that he was baited into it (because, let’s be fair he totally was) is no excuse. It’s some pretty horrific shit to say for a supposed “ally” (which is a total bullshit term anyway. We know what it’s worth when things get tough).

melmi,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

If he actually said “trans people are too sensitive and this is why no one likes you” I’d be right there with you. He didn’t say that, though. Maybe that’s what it meant, but it’s not the read I got. He said that getting offended at him [for making a mistake] was not helping their case.

Yeah, he should have handled it differently, but it’s not “trans people are too sensitive and this is why no one likes you”, it’s “we’re in an argument and you’re getting upset at me for something I couldn’t have known.”

Because she didn’t just tell him her pronouns, she accused him of misgendering her intentionally, in a discussion where they’re already attacking each other back and forth so it easily reads as another attack to someone who’s not used to being told pronouns.

And I mean fuck, maybe he’s really a monster beneath all of that. But I don’t think that what we’ve been shown is enough to condemn him and know what type of person he is. It certainly isn’t enough to condemn an entire instance in my opinion.

Maybe I give people too much credit, but defederation is a big deal and I haven’t seen people talking about other instances of transphobia either from this admin or other people on the instance, so it seems like there’s a good chance that it’s a miscommunication.

vzq,

Oh I agree with most of this. If you look up my top comment, I don’t support defederation over this. This is something that needed to be handled at the community mod level.

He’s not a monster. He’s just a normal guy. He reacted poorly and he has some low hanging fruit in personal growth roadmap he can take care of. But I’d be lying if I said I haven’t done similar things online and worse, albeit in different contexts.

In the end, it comes down whether you trust the instance admins as a whole and the instance administration processes. I don’t get the impression that he operates as a dictator that abuses admin rights to settle personal slap fights. I get the impression administrating programming.dev is a team effort.

Rolder,

Getting baited into this by Hexbear clowns lmao. Shit like this is gonna ruin lemmy

melmi, (edited )
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This alone doesn’t seem like something worth defederating over. It seems like they just got baited hard by Hexbear. Did the comment chain get censored? It doesn’t seem like there’s much active transphobia here, just ignorance of the issues at worst.

From my cursory read, the only thing that reads as actually transphobic to me is when they say “And getting offended by it really isn’t helping your case here.” in response to someone getting mad at being referred to as “they”, and that itself was due to technical issues and not transphobia.

Frankly, one angry snapback and a slap fight with Hexbear doesn’t seem worth defederating over. I’m all for defederating bigots, but I don’t want hapless allies getting caught in the crossfire.

spaduf,

but I don’t want hapless allies getting caught in the crossfire.

Especially not for the sake of hexbear

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

But the admin here really likes Hexbear and has expressed the intention of federating with them the moment instance level blocking works

Honestly this whole thing has me window shopping for another instance due to our admin again siding with Hexbear

FirstMajesticComet,
@FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

expressed the intention of federating with them the moment instance level blocking works

Ah so I take it they don’t believe the spam and hostility concerns about Hexbear users are legitimate, if they did their solution to the problem wouldn’t be “just block them lol”, it would be to keep Hexbear Censured. Though it might anyway, since the Instance blocking doesn’t seem like it’ll ever work the way anyone thinks/wants it to:

Users can now block instances. Similar to community blocks, it means that any posts from communities which are hosted on that instance are hidden. However the block doesn’t affect users from the blocked instance, their posts and comments can still be seen normally in other communities.

Siding with Hexbear is a red flag, considering the ammount of problems they cause from spamming to the pro-genocide propaganda they push out.

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh no they see the spam and bullying behavior (they’ve even been on the receiving end of it) they don’t see it as a problem because they’re a “trans positive instance”.

And the politics of the Hexbears is something they’re seemingly willing to overlook in the name of keeping trans positive communities together.

Yeah, the admin ain’t great and the only reason I’m still hear is because the overlap in communities I want to be federated with and one’s I don’t want to be federated with currently align enough. As long as Hexbear stays defederated (and I believe Lemmygrad (almost as bad as Hexbear) is as well but IDK). But defederating with programming.dev is a big deal IMO.

I’m curious though how our admin found out about that one thread with the admin of programming.dev. Looking in the thread I didn’t see them, but I did see a bunch of Hexbears. My guess is Hexbear in their dog piling decided to inform our admin (probably en masse) about the thread once it completely went to shit to drive a wedge to isolate our community further. Hell that thread was 2 days ago and this announcement came out only a few hours ago.

FirstMajesticComet,
@FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh no they see the spam and bullying behavior (they’ve even been on the receiving end of it) they don’t see it as a problem because they’re a “trans positive instance”.

And the politics of the Hexbears is something they’re seemingly willing to overlook in the name of keeping trans positive communities together.

Yeah that’s really weird because hexbear often behaves in a way that paints trans people in a bad light, including the fact that they often push for certain ideologies and philosophies that are directly harmful to trans people. As well as certain philosophies that hurt everyone in general like being pro-genocide. How are they in any way a good representation of this community or the people in it, and how is it good for this community to have such destructive people tearing the place up?

Gormadt, (edited )
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I haven’t the foggiest idea how the admin here justifies their support in the face of what Hexbear supports politically

Edit: Clarification and also: I’m not sure if you were here around the time Hexbear got defederated but the threads here on that are pretty damning. In the end Hexbear defederated from us first before our admin did.

Roflmasterbigpimp,
@Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

Hello! I just read this Conversation and just wanted to say you can argue very well! Back to blahaj-Lurker-mode.

good_girl, (edited )
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’m curious though how our admin found out about that one thread with the admin of programming.dev. Looking in the thread I didn’t see them, but I did see a bunch of Hexbears. My guess is Hexbear in their dog piling decided to inform our admin (probably en masse) about the thread once it completely went to shit to drive a wedge to isolate our community further. Hell that thread was 2 days ago and this announcement came out only a few hours ago.

A user asked about it on /c/mtf.

btw you can just look at the hexbear com that is supposedly their “dog piling” community. It’s totally free to look at if you’d believe it. /c/the_dunk_tank. The only time this topic was addressed there was 4 days ago when the original topic was still actively going on. I can guarantee you there’s no grand conspiracy about isolating blahaj lmfao.

Also i have no idea what universe you live in where Ada had not preferred to cater to /c/196 despite their shit stirring, rather than work with hexbear to keep the biggest trans communities together.

melmi,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A blahaj poster asked about it on /c/mtf.

No, unless there was a different post that was deleted, it looks like a Hexbear user’s alt did. lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/7367407

It’s her only post, on an account that was created 4 days ago. It’s not some grand conspiracy by any means, but calling her a blahaj poster is a stretch.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That’s my bad I thought someone else had posted it, but it’s still a trans user asking in a trans com. I think it’s a valid thing to poll the community on.

Omega_Haxors, (edited )

Lemmygrad is a huge step up over hexbear as far as toxicity is concerned, unless you’re an outright fascist in which case they will magdump. It’s just hard to see the difference in quality because the two instances have so much overlap when it comes to thread participation.

vzq,

I’ve never gotten into a tiff with a lemmygrad user in a generic community. They have their convictions, but they don’t roam /all spoiling for a fight.

The hexbears on the other hand…

Omega_Haxors,

If you want to see something funny, sometimes HB users will try to pick fights with lemmygrad users and it just splashes right off of them.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’ll very sadly and reluctantly have to do the same, if that happens - and whilst I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’ve not seen @Ada say anything along those lines, certainly not officially.

I do understand wanting trans-positive instances to stick together but I do feel like there is a line and that ‘the enemy of my enemy’ is not automatically my friend. Or, to put it another way, trans (or disabled, or gay or black or whomever) individuals are just as capable of being shitty people as anyone else and if there’s a whole instance that is largely made up of shitty individuals only capable of expressing themselves with fury and hate, the fact they are supportive of or part of minority groups is not enough to make me want to share space with them or be subjected to their methods.

FirstMajesticComet,
@FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah I agree, this definately does seem like a knee jerk reaction which ultimately does more harm than good.

neuracnu,
@neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Frankly, one angry snapback and a slap fight with Hexbear doesn’t seem worth defederating over.

I have to agree.

The bulk of Hexbear’s userbase actively chooses to interact with others in the fediverse in antisocial ways, finding any excuse to be offended and generally make argumentative nuisances of themselves. This concerns us because they wrap themselves in trans-colored flags.

I’m tired of Hexbear users stomping around Lemmy being jerks to everyone in the name of being trans. And I don’t want us, or this instance, to suffer for it.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A shame. It reads (particularly at the top of that thread) like an ignorant Admin and a typical Hexbear user(s).

Please note when I say that that I am not suggesting or implying that the Admin was not in the wrong, but that when the Admin said:

It’s literally the opposite of transphobic. It’s like they tried as hard as they could to negate everything bad JKR has ever said…

That seems more like something someone ignorant of a lot of things would say and not necessarily what someone intent on being awful would say. The response to them, also from a Hexbear user, was:

You’re a transphobic clown that cares more about your Harry Potter treats than trans people. Stop pretending otherwise.

Maybe that’s true and maybe it’s not. Certainly in the remainder of that thread, the Admin falls pretty short of decent behaviour. However, I think if that first response to the Admin’s response had not been so judgemental and had maybe seen it as ignorance rather than malice and level headedly gone on to explain why the Admin is wrong without the (i think we can all agree) standard Hexbear method of engagement, maybe (not definitely, but maybe) the outcome might have been an ally rather than a defederation.

I suspect that I’m going to get responses to that paragraph stating it’s not a trans persons responsibility to educate others. I do see that and understand it as I am part of a minority group that has been marginalised, persecuted and wished out of existence for hundreds if not thousands of years. I understand exactly how annoying and exhausting it is to feel like you have to continually explain why it’s OK you exist.

But I’ve also come to realise the difference between ignorance and wilful ignorance and that it’s always worth making at least one try with someone. 99% of the time it gets you nowhere, but sometimes it gets you an ally.

I understand the defederation decision and it doesn’t affect my choice to be on Blahaj at all. I guess my hope is that the two Admin’s can talk it out and that refederation is an available option but that if that doesn’t happen, the PD Admin at least learns how they behaved is transphobic and they change their ways.

Fungah,

You’ll get responses alright. Flurpity herpity floor.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

We’re talking about it now, but due to timezones and travel, I can’t say where the talks will lead.

I will also say though, that as as admin that has been actively targeted by a Hexbear pileon, it’s not an excuse to erase trans folks pronouns as a side issue, or to call people insane for trying to explain why the Potter IP is harmful to trans folk.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I absolutely agree with both points.

I just can’t help feeling that had that initial exchange been with a non-Hexbear user(s), it might’ve developed differently. I don’t know that for a fact obviously and maybe the PD Admin has a history of that sort of behaviour, I’m solely going by what was in that thread. By no means am I excusing their later behaviour, which was transphobic, all I’m saying is that those two sentences that I quoted seem (to me anyway) to be the flashpoint and that if it had not been a Hexbear pile on, ignorance could’ve been challenged in a way that might’ve lead to allyship.

ada, (edited )
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Right, but this isn’t an educational instance. We’re not here to take hits with a smile whilst folk learn. This space exists to give gender diverse folk a space where they can let their guard down. The needs of gender diverse folk are the priority for me.

And look, I get the frustration with Hexbear. I’ve been targeted by their pile-ons, and I’m still a regular punching bag for them. But if that ever leads me to minimise the oppression of people who experience bigotry that I don’t have to deal with, I absolutely deserve to be called out for it. Openly and loudly, because I’m an instance admin. My voice is seen as representing my community, and the same is true of all admins.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I get that, I really do. As I said previously, belonging to a minority group myself I don’t see it as my responsibility to teach everyone who’s uninformed. I’m definitely not saying anyone should accept any kind of comment with a smile, but there are times when I do do that both on and offline if I feel the comment in question was genuine ignorance rather than malice. I realise that that is my choice and doesn’t reflect on how anyone else handles situations like this and that as Admin of Blahaj you have a duty of care to all its users.

I guess I feel that allies (and I mean that in a general sense, not specifically trans allies or disability allies or queer allies etc) are increasingly rare and if there’s an opportunity to alleviate someone’s genuine ignorance, its a chance worth taking. But I also realise there’s a possibility I’m being naive.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

When you see enough of it you can generally tell within the first couple interactions whether or not someone is being willfully ignorant vs genuinely ignorant. People who are being genuinely ignorant tend not to dig their feet in and double down when told something is offensive or harmful towards a marginalized group.

You’re certainly free to try and educate people, but trying to educate someone who has already made up their mind is a Sisyphean task.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yep, all true.

My own reaction to the Admin’s first comment was ‘ignorance’ which then devolved as the thread devolved.

Although from own experience, even genuinely ignorant people do a fair bit of digging in at first too. Challenging someone’s opinion is difficult. But you’re right, there does come a point when you realise you’re flogging a dead horse.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Right, but this isn’t an educational instance. We’re not here to take hits with a smile whilst folk learn. This space exists to give gender diverse folk a space where they can let their guard down. The needs of gender diverse folk are the priority for me.

This is the biggest reason I still use blahaj sans 196.

We should not have to play teacher every time someone tries to attack trans people.

melmi,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I guess I don’t see the attack? The discussion got heated, but they didn’t attack trans people, they used they/them to refer someone whose pronouns they didn’t know and then got defensive when they got accused of intentional misgendering. They reacted poorly and worded it badly, so it should be a learning experience for them, but it doesn’t mean they’re a transphobe.

And the whole Hogwarts Legacy thing is a difference of opinion, not an attack on trans people either. They weren’t even defending JKR.

I agree that we don’t need to play teacher when someone tries to attack us, but we also don’t need to attack anyone who says anything slightly misinformed. There’s a middle ground there.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

“tries to attack trans people” was a general use of the phrase.

I don’t think the PD admin was intentionally attacking trans people, though I do feel that his behavior was furthering transphobic discourse. Especially because he doubled down when told he was misgendering someone. Calling trans people “overly sensitive” and “easily offended” blurs the line between an attack towards trans people and general ignorance about trans people for sure, but the point is Ada doesn’t want either case to be allowed here.

melmi,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I see then.

I guess I’m just realizing maybe this safe space is too safe for me. I want someplace that takes transphobia seriously, but I also want to be able to have enough people outside my trans bubble to talk to. I suppose I just draw the line somewhere different.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

this is the way i learn that a mid game like hogwarts legacy won best steam deck game? like how… do they know baldur’s gate 3 exists?

Vash63,

BG3 won GOTY and you couldn’t vote the same game for multiple categories.

Rozauhtuno,
@Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

No one took the voting seriously and it was full of trolling. Guess what won the award for most innovative gameplay?

spaduf,

Does BG3 run well on steam deck? Huge if true

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

when i first got bg3 i played it all the time on the steam deck (some of the menus take some getting used to but it works).

TheAlbatross,

My boyfriend and I play on the couch, I using a Steam Link, he using the Steam Deck.

Both run great.

Hildegarde,

The steam awards are awarded by a vote from anyone with a steam account. You should take these awards as seriously as any internet poll.

Despite being the most derivative release of the year, Starfield won the award for Most Innovative Gameplay.

BG3 did win both Game of the Year, and Outstanding Story-Rich Game.

ThunderWhiskers,
@ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world avatar

I just read through the comment chain (I think). What specifically was said here that was transphobic?

vzq,

From what I can see right now in the link thread that doesn’t seem to be nearly enough grounds for defederation from programming.dev. What am I missing?

I’m especially confused considering it’s a thread on a lemmy.ml community. I expect community mods to mod and life goes on.

If the admin of programming.dev is a turd when posting on other instances, I expect him to get moderated and/or blocked. Not the instance that is unrelated to the incident defederated.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The issue is that it’s the lead admin of programming.dev, not one of their users.

vzq, (edited )

I don’t particularly oppose the decision to defederate. I have been vacillating on unsubbing from two of my programming.dev communities because of extremely poor social experiences and the third one hardly gets any posts. So if anything you are saving me the annoyance of having to do anything. But I genuinely do not understand.

Maybe the really ghastly stuff has been removed, but what I’m reading right now is pretty much what I consider to be baseline behavior on gaming communities on servers where GaMeRs congregate. Am I setting my standards too low?

Maybe the mods deleted some really horrible comments, but that’s moderation working as intended. Does it really warrant further action? Specifically this drastic?

Am I underestimating the risks we run by staying federated with an instance with hostile admins? Are there things they do/can do/could do that could cause us major problems?

I mean yeah, the guy seems like a rude abrasive idiot that condones some pretty horrible stuff to justify playing his wizard game. But this is literally the first post of his I have the displeasure to read. if I can block his account and keep reading the content on his instance that’s not complete crap, why wouldn’t I want to?

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

but what I’m reading right now is pretty much what I consider to be baseline behavior on gaming communities on servers where GaMeRs congregate

But coming from their lead admin, who is ultimately responsible for the stance the instance takes on issues like this.

The goal for Blåhaj Lemmy is a space where gender diverse folk can let their defences down a bit, where they know that transphobia will be stopped in its tracks.

vzq,

I can see that this is a bad omen for the level of support trans users can expect over there. I can imagine you’re not comfortable waiting for the other shoe to drop.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That’s pretty much it, yeah

AnExerciseInFalling,

I guess my concern is that as a user who created their account on programming.dev, it feels like it’s coming out of nowhere. I like browsing the communities here, I hadn’t seen the original post on the other instance before this thread, and if I had missed this thread this whole instance would just disappear seemingly randomly.

I’m a programmer by trade and by hobby so when creating my account I went with “the programming instance.” Now I’m hearing that because of a thread on a different instance (lemmy.ml) this instance is defederating with programming.dev.

I get that you can migrate to another instance, but if decisions on defederation can be made based on the actions of one person this could definitely happen again, and I don’t make a habit of following an instance admin to make sure I agree with everything they say. It seems exhausting and unsustainable to constantly check other instances for inter-instance conflicts just to see the communities I like/want to be a part of

Ategon,
@Ategon@programming.dev avatar

btw I made a post in our instance meta community if you want to read it. Been trying to resolve the situation !meta

AnExerciseInFalling,

Thank you

amio,

That conversation is really hard to follow between the hexbear emote spam (and non-emote spam), deleted comments and personal attacks.

bamboo,

hexbear emote spam

Is that what that is? How does that add anything to the conversation and who is upvoting that

kristina,

we just really like shorks

Feathercrown,

blahaj my beloved

Adramis,

It doesn’t and Hexbear trolls.

backhdlp,
@backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I love you all and I’m obviously against transphobia or any kind of bigotry, but this is probably where I leave this instance.

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah I’m feeling the same way TBH

I’ve just got to find a new one that fits for me

CoachDom,
@CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s the best feature of the Fediverse - you have so many options! If one instance doesn’t work for you, there WILL be one that agrees with you better.

I’m not LGBT or Q but this is my instance because I whole heartedly support people and I appreciate that mods here do their best to separate from pure human garbage while retaining connection with like and different minded groups.

Adramis,

It gets really tiresome to have to hop instances multiple times, though…There’s scripts you can run for it but an official way to migrate would be nice.

timbuck2themoon,

I think there is an official export on instances .19+. But I could be wrong. I’m not sure my instance is on it yet.

papertowels,

As someone who only recently migrated to programing.dev, it feels like I’m building on shifting sand.

AnExerciseInFalling,

It’s a great feature, but the “inter-instance politics” of it are exhausting. I’m a programmer by trade and by hobby so when creating my account I went with “the programming instance.” Now I’m hearing that because of a thread on a different instance (lemmy.ml) this instance is defederating with programming.dev.

I like browsing the communities here, I hadn’t seen the original post on the other instance before this thread, and if I had missed this thread this whole instance would just disappear seemingly randomly.

I get that you can migrate to another instance, but given how this is going how can I be sure this won’t happen again and I’d lose access to instances out of nowhere? It seems unsustainable to constantly check other instances for inter-instance conflicts just to see the communities I like

I agree with separating from different minded groups, but these are the words of one person who set up the instance who definitely doesn’t speak for the “programming group.” I feel like action could be taken against the individual without basically punishing the entire instance

spaduf,

I left a while ago but I am disappointed to the degree that people over here are willing to carry water for hexbear. They absolutely cannot be trusted to be good faith actors.

CJOtheReal,

The action is Pretty blown out of proportion when we are honest…

vzq,

To be fair, programming.dev is moderated pretty badly. This is looks like a slap fight that escalated beyond what is reasonable, but it’s a good indicator of how respectfully people over there are treated. That is, not at all.

CJOtheReal,

Idk i like “poor moderation” as in its allowed to say most things as long as they don’t cause legal trouble for the instance, one of the many upsides being free from reddit.

Yeah the treatment there isn’t good in the thread but i have seen worse from admins…

sh.itjust.works/comment/5160618

And just antik’s behavior all over that place (the lemmy.ee account belongs to the Lemmy.world admin) lemmy.ca/post/8810527

Ategon, (edited )
@Ategon@programming.dev avatar

Hey im the admin mainly in charge of the community over on programming.dev (+ the other lead admin). Can you point out a case of this happening and I can see if I need to handle it

We moderate things in our instance if its reported but if its not reported it cant really be found easily

(also for the main post, im chatting with your admin about it)

Smorty,

It would be nice not having to defederate. The users on programming.dev are pretty nice from what I’ve seen.

Tja,

Thanks!

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

If we do defederate, which would be a massive shame, I’m willing to act like a massive dick to make you feel better about the whole thing

JackbyDev,

Reminder that federation is directional. This post is about them defederating with us.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

In either direction, it’s a severing of trust and degradation of user experience. That’s what I want to avoid. When I say “we defederate” I mean “our two instances become not mutually federated,” not “we [programming.dev] choose to defederate [from blahaj].”

JackbyDev,

I gotcha, just letting you know there’s a technical difference. 😎👍

melmi, (edited )
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t know how fair that is, because things got just as bad over here when we were federated with Hexbear. They’re really active and really argumentative, so slap fights will happen and be hard to moderate.

Maybe things are bad in general over there, but this seems like a pretty poor indicator imo. It’s hard to have a respectful discussion when you’re being dogpiled by Hexbear users.

I’m not subscribed to any programming.dev communities, but I’ve seen programming.dev names pop up quite a bit in threads and they’ve been nothing but respectful.

vzq, (edited )

That’s a very fair point.

When we federated with hexbear I was on team “let’s give them the benefit of the doubt”. That lasted 12 hours.

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

In the time we were federated with Hexbear I blocked more people then I had in years

Hexbear showed their character and they should stay defederated and more instances should defederate them for their continued poor behavior as a community

papertowels,

I’m just sitting here really confused at the choice to defederate based on a single chat.

Most folks at programming.dev, myself included, are there because it’s related to their profession. That’s what drew us there.

It baffles me to think that the entire instance has been judged and deemed unworthy because of a single comment chain that had disagreements.

You can block users you don’t want to interact with. Some instances breed a potentially nasty sentiment or attitude, and when there are too many users from that instance to block, that’s when I’d consider defederation. But a single conversation thread, involving a single person?

I’ve got no say in how another instance is ran. Just makes me a little sad about a much more fragmented future of Lemmy.

JackbyDev,

Fellow programming.dev user here,

I think it’s worth checking out her comments here. I don’t think you understand why Ada made the decision. The decision is not about deeming our instance unworthy. It is about not wanting to be federated with instances with transphobic admins. It’s very different than somethingike thinking everyone on our instance is transphobic.

I haven’t seen the removed comments so I can’t judge for myself whether they’re transphobic (and it’s not relevant to the talk you and I are having).

papertowels,

It is about not wanting to be federated with instances with transphobic admins.

I might be missing something, but I believe an admin being potentially transphobic only matters if they do not moderate transphobic content that leaks out to other instances. I don’t think I’ve seen transphobic content leak out of programming.dev.

That said, I’ve read some of Adas comments on the intention behind defederation, and blahaj. What I’ve learned is that Blahaj wans set up as a safe space, so 0 tolerance is understandable, and is well within their rights to establish and enforce.

Coming from someone who is just looking to Lemmy as a reddit alternative, it’s simultaneously cool that communities can do this, and a little unfortunate that with Lemmy being as small as it is (compared to reddit), we are defederating over single comment threads. Again, blahaj was intended to be a safe space and has no obligation to be a part of the “reddit replacement” I’m looking for, so if they deem it necessary then good on them.

JackbyDev,

Agreed. I hope our two instances can find a way to stay federated but I hold no anger if we can’t.

hakase, (edited )

Right? The admin here sees hexbears engaging in their typical bad faith spam-bullying tactics against someone who, unless there’s something really bad in that deleted comment, doesn’t seem to actually be a transphobe, for the crime of enjoying a popular mainstream video game, and the admin decides to defederate the victim of the bullying.

CJOtheReal,

Yeah that game brings out the worst in the “woke” people. I haven’t played it, but its definitely good from all the reviews and this whole dogfighting behavior just harms the Trans people and their “allies” and makes them seem unreasonable and annoying, wich isn’t doing them good in a rightful fight against discrimination.

vzq,

The only thing this comment gets right is the scare quotes around “allies”.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah that game brings out the worst in the “woke” people.

With good reason. Nobody has just picked a game at random and said ‘everyone must hate this game now for no reason whatsoever’.

But, as I said, in a previous comment, there is a difference between ignorance and wilful ignorance. Up until a couple of years ago I was totally unaware of JKR’s transphobia. This was because I read the first HP book when it first came out, thought it was shit and dismissed it and her from my mind. I’ve never had a twitter account and I don’t read the ‘celebrity’ bits of news websites so I knew nothing of the whole situation. As a result, when a trans friend of mine started talking about it, I responded out of ignorance. Thankfully, they realised it was ignorance not malice and took me through the whole thing.

My point being, it’s impossible to tell from just this quoted exchange if the PD Admin is being ignorant or willfully ignorant. If it’s the former I hope they come to realise their error and how it affects people. If it’s the latter, they can do one.

Sop,

The problem with that thread was that the admin kept arguing and trying to educate trans people on transphobia. If they didn’t know about JKR’s transphobia then they shouldn’t have kept on arguing as long as they have.

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I absolutely agree with that too. I’m not suggesting their subsequent statements were not transphobic as they clearly were. That’s why I fully support @Ada’s decision to defed.

My point was really that, the flashpoint seems (to me) to be the two sentences I quoted. The one from the Admin seemed ignorant rather than openly malicious, the one from the Hexbear user was just accusative. That, in my opinion, was an opportunity to address the Admin’s ignorance.

Everything after that, the Admin has no excuse over.

CJOtheReal,

Its Harry Potter and JK has been in the shit storm for quite some time. (wich i couldn’t care less, fuck her she is rich and talks a lot of shit about a lot of things)

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

victim

ohh nooo boohoo that poor admin had it pointed out that he put his own enjoyment of a mid-tier video game over his respect for a marginalized community.

Grow up lmfao

Rolder,

How does enjoying a mid tier video game make you a transphobe? Talk about a fuckin stretch lmao

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Where did I say solely enjoying the wizard game makes you a transphobe? Talk about a fuckin stretch lmao

CJOtheReal,

You can see it by the way it is, this entire thread is full of stuff like that, especially from this particular user.

hakase,

That user is a hexbear - their handle here is an alt. Which isn’t surprising given the nature of their engagement in this thread.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This is my main account actually, but go off.

CJOtheReal,

Behaves like one 100%

Absolutely unable to understand criticism or different opinions… Typical for hexbear people.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Transphobia isn’t a ‘different opinion’ numbnuts.

CJOtheReal,

You cant just call everything transpobia and try to force everyone to agree with you/try to shut up everyone… This makes you look like a idiotic asshole.

Rolder,

And playing Harry Potter doesn’t make you a transphobe, numbnuts.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I urge you to point out exactly where I said that.

AlmightyTritan,

Like I don’t have the attention span to read everything the accused person wrote during that entire thread, and obviously I could have missed some important context or quote.

My take on it was that this person liked the Harry Potter game, realized that people were telling them the game was antisemitic and transphobic (which I agree, it is), and then it seems like they refused to believe the game was in fact antisemitic and transphobic. The person then doubled down and because everyone got heated (which I’m not judging folks for getting heated, I don’t know what you’re going through behind the screen), and kept digging a hole.

Like if the accused is actually a transphobic, fuck em right to hell I hope they learn they’re on the wrong side of history and get better. Else if it is someone who’s pro-trans and got caught being reactive and liking media that goes against their views, then I hope they look at that media with fresh eyes, and try to make amends with the people who were arguing in the thread.

Plenty of people like media that when looked at with a slightly critical eye might go against their views or punch down at the people they care for, but are ignorant to the fact it does that. I think that a lot of people have really visceral reactions when confronted with that fact, and try to get defensive rather than learn.

But I don’t know anything any of these people and I’m just trying to dissect why I think it’s also blown out of proportion.

melmi,
@melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This is a good take. I don’t think we should defederate immediately when someone has a bad take once, even if they’re an admin.

DreadPirateShawn,

off topic – what lemmy app did you use for that screenshot? i like the rainbow thread nesting indicators on the left :-)

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

There’s no screenshot. The link I posted was directly to the thread on programming.dev

DreadPirateShawn,

Ahh I’m blind, didn’t even notice it was a webview. Thanks!

Feathercrown,

That’s the default lemmy web ui, no app needed

fogstormberry,

a reassuring move. glad I picked the blahaj

RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
@RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

[I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

toasteecup,

Hey, as a Jew to a trans person, I don’t make call outs on what is and isn’t transphobic. I rely on your community when I think I’m seeing it since as the affected individuals y’all are the experts.

Do me a favor, give us the same respect about antisemitism. I’m getting awfully tired of seeing people throw that word around and as a Jew it’s fucking scary that it’s losing its meaning.

Thanks

muse,
muse avatar

While I'd be happy to do that in general, Hogwarts Legacy has major antisemitic themes carried over from the story designer.

https://theconversation.com/how-hogwarts-legacy-video-game-reinforces-antisemitic-scapegoating-with-goblins-202710

TheAlbatross,

You and I are both Jews. It’s true that some people are using the phrase “antisemitism” in a way that promotes their own interests instead of as a warning of bigotry, but that isn’t the case here. JK Rowling and her works are antisemitic and promote vile stereotypes of not just Jews but other minority groups as well.

Rowling is a bigot and her works should be forgotten.

Omega_Haxors,

A racist, a transphobe and an antisemite walk into a bar. The bartender looks up and says “aren’t you that girl who wrote harry potter??”

toasteecup,

Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree cousin.

While I know the common argument is “but the goblins!” The goblins look like what I’d expect goblins to look like. That harkens all the way back to my mental image of the goblin bankers when I first read the chamber of secrets.

TheAlbatross,

I don’t think that’s unreasonable thinking, though the modern image of goblins is constructed from antisemitic stereotypes and imagery.

I do think it’s possible to divorce the image of a fantasy goblin from its antisemitic history, but I don’t think Rowling has done that and instead has leaned into the vile history of goblins as a Jewish stereotype.

The article someone else shared discusses this fairly well and I think it does well to note that the use of goblins as antisemitic tropes has become so commonplace that it’s original intent is often lost. While some may celebrate that and say it’s successfully divorced from its antisemitic roots, I think this is something far more sinister in the way that it’s integrated antisemitic imagery into modern thinking.

CJOtheReal,

I think the problem here is associating features of goblins with jews and not that goblins exist in fantasy and look what they look like, they may (strong may) be originating from the antisemitic picture of Jewish people but nobody nowadays looks at a fantasy goblin and thinks of Jewish people (unless they already are big assholes obviously…) nowadays its just a goblin. and you can like it or not, i don’t think JK R. wrote hers in the mind of mocking Jewish people.

And if she is or isn’t transpobe (i haven’t seen actual evidence so far but I’m not very deep into that either) doesn’t really matter, the game itself is objectively good and people like it, thats it, and the game has nothing to do with JK, the license was bought from my knowledge, so she already has the money, you don’t impact her by buying or not buying it and you don’t make yourself happy by ranting about it.

vzq,

And if she is or isn’t transpobe

Jesus Christ dude. Go JAQ off somewhere else.

CJOtheReal,

What? What is JAQ?

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Ahh so you see, by pointing out racism, it is you who is the real racist!

  • cj “i am very smart” the real@ani.social
TheAlbatross,

I think many people who like Harry Potter aren’t in it because they enjoy the casual bigotry throughout the novels, but because they like a magical bildingsroman.

But Rowling is a horrendous bigot and her works are tainted by that. It seems to me that you want to enjoy things on a surface level without thinking about them critically, and I don’t think that’s an uncommon way to approach what is ostensibly a children’s series. That said, you don’t want to examine the work or its author deeper and so maybe you don’t have a great grasp on the issue.

That’s fine. But Rowling is a vile person and her works shouldn’t be promoted.

CJOtheReal,

Idk this entire debate about the game and her is promoting that franchise more than anything else, The wizard game wouldn’t have made a big impact if it wasn’t for people running around telling everyone how bad it is and that the people that play it are Nazis and kill trans people (I’ve seen that stance more than a few times sadly) that isn’t helping anyone.

TheAlbatross,

Hm, I’m not sure if people calling out against transphobia or antisemitism is promoting exactly, though it does build awareness. The fact that people see that and then think “I don’t care what minorities have to say about how this affects them, I want to play wizards” or even “fuck this woke liberal nonsense, I’m going to play the racist game by the transphobe, I love this” is a different problem entirely. How would you suggest promoting a boycott without making people aware of the product you are boycotting?

And I think blaming the people who call out bigotry where it exists for the popularity of the bigoted work is absurd. Should people instead be silent about bigotry? I don’t think that’s a better situation. You’re going to see hyperbolic opinions on any issue, from transphobia to corn farming, and focusing on those responses to decry the people affected by hatred feels backwards and counterproductive.

All that said, this is nonsequitor to the fact that her works are bigoted and if you don’t want to bear the burden of examining media critically to avoid bigotry, the least you can do is listen when the people affected by that bigotry call it out for such.

CJOtheReal,

I think we agree to disagree on the game, there are no reports that find actual transpobia or Antisemitic stuff in that game, most stuff is made up completely or is only very loosely based on reality and has a lot of imagination in it. There are probably some points that could be seen as problematic, but they aren’t just in that game or franchise.

TheAlbatross, (edited )

I thought you hadn’t looked into it? Glad to see that changed.

But I don’t think you’re being sincere here. There’s an article posted in this very thread that discusses the antisemitism in the game and JK Rowling hasn’t been the least bit shy about her transphobia.

I don’t think we agree at all here. And I don’t think you really care if the game or franchise or its author is bigoted.

CJOtheReal,

Looked into the games stuff not JKs person.

vzq,

I do think it’s possible to divorce the image of a fantasy goblin from its antisemitic history, but I don’t think Rowling has done that and instead has leaned into the vile history of goblins as a Jewish stereotype.

Right? And not just the books. I was watching Deathly Hallows part 1 lately, and it’s like the director gave Nazi propaganda to the goblin actor as reference. “Great! You are doing great! Now rub your hands! You are amazing! Now, evil laughter!”

It’s laughable to suggest Harry Potter goblins aren’t leaning into the anti-Semitic trope.

RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
@RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

[I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

toasteecup,

You rock, thank you! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise yo

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Wow, I missed that one!

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The whole comment that the previous commentor took a small section of actually includes them citing instances where they’ve defended trans people.

And also includes them saying that they remove transphobic and antisemitic content all the time and invites people to check their mod logs.

link to the comment

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Which gives me hope that they’ll be able to recognise why these comments were a problem

backhdlp,
@backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Someone made a post to that on mtf

lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/7367407

Cowbee,

Fuck transphobes. Transphobes don’t deserve to be coddled for having reactionary views just because they haven’t murdered a trans person, fuck that noise. Transphobia is Transphobia.

CJOtheReal,

Hexbear isn’t calling out transpobia they use it as fighting word and make it meaningless, just like everything they do or touch.

kristina,

This is transphobic, almost all the people in that thread that are responding are trans, and as you can see by this thread and the other thread, the trans people on this site agree with the ones on hexbear on this issue

Trans people have a right to call out transphobia

CJOtheReal,

Eh… I’d say thats a bunch of personal attacks being thrown around with some transpobic wording because its a “good” attack point in a enraged debate.

kristina,

What do you mean by this, can you cite a specific example in the thread? Trans people are allowed to be mad when encountering transphobia.

CJOtheReal,

programming.dev/comment/6126787 all the comments there.

kristina,

Ok, all of those are trans people responding to someone who misgendered a user and used transphobic talking points? You’re allowed to be angry and make personal attacks against transphobes, transphobia itself is a personal attack against all trans people

CJOtheReal,

programming.dev/comment/6154322

This is your misgendering… Bro he literally showed that he didn’t see it and i think its rather respectful to use they in that regard if you don’t know…

kristina,

Also, I’m not a bro

CJOtheReal,

Everyone is bro. Bro is gender neutral. Be glad i dont Bruh you!

kristina,

nah, sis is a word. real dudebro moment

CJOtheReal,

Making a difference between bro and sis makes it gendered. I bro gender neutral.

kristina,

And he responded

Sorry, they really aren’t prominently displayed everywhere. And getting offended by it really isn’t helping your case here.

A sorry was enough, doubling down and complaining about trans people being offended is transphobia

bamboo,

He was so close to deescalating and then doubled down on the escalation.

CJOtheReal,

You don’t need to be offended every time someone uses the wrong pronounce… Especially when you get proof that its not intentionally. Just say please adress me as [she/him/they…] and don’t play victim over something that insignificant

He is right in saying that it ain’t helping the case, wich is objectively correct.

RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
@RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    CJOtheReal,

    Some might but the majority of that instance is brigaders that like to disrupt everything.

    good_girl,
    @good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    brigading is when lemmy federates posts across communities so that when something hits the front page a lot of people from an active community reply to it.

    good_girl,
    @good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    btw can you please stop solo-brigading this thread? you’re not from blahaj and you’re disrupting everything on this post.

    CJOtheReal,

    I have a blahaj account, just saw the post with another one first.

    Also im not brigading at all, im just voicing my opinion (or stating facts) here and awnsering comments like yours

    good_girl,
    @good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    You have a blahaj account yet you make the most tired bad faith anti-trans arguments i’ve seen since I left reddit.

    What a disgrace.

    CJOtheReal,

    https://ani.social/pictrs/image/c4dca4bd-4459-49d8-b833-b9851ce1166f.webp

    good_girl,
    @good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    It’s telling that you made such a big leap all on your own.

    CJOtheReal,

    https://ani.social/pictrs/image/bb3e9e20-f193-437e-a70b-6413d3a5f0c0.webp

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    Gormadt,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Do you have a link to this exchange?

    Honestly though that comment about Hexbear is pretty on point. Hexbear makes every comment thread they invade a nightmare, and is one of the goals of their instance.

    Sop,

    Putting in the energy to make well-rounded arguments in a discussion and educating a person who clearly has no idea what they’re talking about does not seem like a nightmare to me. I’m honestly pretty glad that they did that.

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    melmi,
    @melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I think it’s important to distinguish that they were not defending JKR, and explicitly condemned her

    Gormadt,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    And also that they have made many many comments (even citing a few) supporting trans people and have removed copious amounts of content that’s transphobic and antisemitic in the past.

    They even invite people to check their mod logs.

    Yeah Garfs comment really takes things out of context

    Gormadt,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    They make comment threads a nightmare for everybody not just transphobes.

    Also I couldn’t help but notice that the part you clipped out conveniently skips the whole first half where they cite instances where they defend trans people and even tell people to check their mod logs for instances where they removed antisemitism and transphobic content.

    Edit: By everybody I mean everybody that has even a slightly different opinion then them on anything.

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    Smorty,

    Oh wow that’s really evil. Didn’t know we were being used in such a way

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    Strawberry,

    Yeah most of the argument seemed at first to me to be that admin and the hexbear folks slapping each other, but if being stressed out by some bad faith interactions causes you to rant about some other group of trans people being “the good ones” it’s not a good look

    Smorty,

    Does this mean that we can’t access the programming.dev communities anymore? I like the Godot community over there.

    ada,
    @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    It will mean that, yes.

    trucy,

    You could still create an account there I guess

    Vilian,

    or any other instance that federate with them

    Coskii,
    @Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Ah. Is there a list somewhere of places we’ve defederated from? I haven’t been keeping up with my fellow lemmy.blahaj’s.

    ada,
    @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    There’s a link called “instances” on the bottom of every page, which will show you, but it’s hard to read, because it also includes non lemmy instances, and there are A LOT of awful bigoted instances out there, though most of them are Mastodon.

    Rozauhtuno,
    @Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances

    RoseTintedGlasses, (edited )
    @RoseTintedGlasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    [I got a bot to automatically delete all my comments over 1 month old so you can’t see this comment anymore]

    trucy,

    Ar first I thought ALL the listed instances were blocked

    ada,
    @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Heh, no. The blocked list is right at the bottom and is tiny by comparison :)

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