the strawman is “vote blue no matter who”
…
no, it’s vote blue whenever “red” is a literal dictator, who promises to be a dictator when elected, who tried a coup once already, who leads a fascist gop splinter group…
vote any fucking color against that shit, not no matter who.
there’s bad, and there’s barely distinguishable from hitler bad…
stop lying
i haven’t seen a single “vote blue no matter who” since hillary…
yet i keep seeing it over and over again on lemmy, as an intentional misrepresentation of people who just want to stop drumpf…
well, mostly from hexbeer
In order to counter the Trump bot accusations going on this thread:
The Trump appointed Supreme Justices are conservative stooges that are clearly just trying to ram through as much conservative stuff into the justice system as they can. The cagey abortion rights the US enjoyed (though sometimes not in practicality) were abolished, which is bad. There were in fact a lot of posts about this on hexbear at the time it was happening. You can now search this if you so desire.
Trump escalated sanctions against Cuba. This comes up from time to time, but he’s obviously not in a position to directly affect this at this precise moment, though the cudgel of “swing state” Florida Cubans is used to avoid any de-escalation.
Trump-supporting state legislatures are escalating attacks against trans people, both as a practical threat (bigots can attack trans people under the assumption that their state’s law enforcement won’t do anything about it) and as a legal escalation to remove any federal protections for trans people. This is also bad. Trump is also partly running on this. This comes up frequently on hexbear.
Trump didn’t succeed in the wall (which itself has had varied response amongst his supporters), but he did increase funding for ICE, expanded detention camps etc. This comes up when it’s in the news, but Trump specific policies don’t tend to be news regarding this right now for some reason.
Trump’s tax cuts for certain sectors and the ultra-wealthy. idk why you’d think hexbear would support this?
and so on
I’m not sure why I’m doing this. I’m not sure why people are surprised that a news aggregation and commentary site tends to talk about things that are currently happening as opposed to things that happened three years ago.
Correct. Fake progressives who are in effect right wingers because they vote as a block continually for war and Wal street over working class people. They’re experts at gas lighting as well.
There is still overlap in the societal aspects, just not the governmental aspects. Mostly because anarchy has no government. That’s the point. People can still choose to work together and basically create a communist society, without any enforcement from a government. Unlikely, but it’s not impossible.
Hey did you notice the “autism” in my name? Maybe I have more perspective to speak on what words are and aren’t slurs against my group than you do fuckass.
Language evolves. “Mental removedation” is not longer recognized as as medical term, its use in modern times is generally regarded as a slur by the disability community and is treated as such in pretty much all communities that actively try to include neurodiverse people are oppose ableism.
So to answer the question of “ince wshen”. The answer is “for at least a couple decades now”. I was actually hit by my friend with a severely disabled brother for using it back in like 2006.
I am active in the disability rights movement and pretty much all of us that are agree the word is a slur and there is no excuse to be using it. Its not a “word for mental capacity” anymore and hasn’t been in a long time. Plus, insinuating that mental disability is a BAD thing is ableist on its face.
Jesus fuck, people need to grow a spine. There are much more pressing matters to cry about. Half the fucking planet is on fire but no, let’s cry about a word.
I grew up on the obese side, was made fun of for it my entire childhood. Do I get offended when I am called fat? No I laugh it off, because it’s true. At some point it’s better to not be offended all day
No, I realized they are only words and when you make fun of the thing they are making fun of you for, that thing stops being fun. It’s called psychology
I disagree. Not everyone has to be like you and people don’t necessarily have to put up with harassment just because you would be ok with it yourself. I was also a fat kid and was made fun of. Do you think this would give me a free pass to publicly mock fat people, targeted or not? Also why would I be motivated to do so knowing it could possibly hurt someone?
And I disagree with you. You think Internet peeps are going to change my speech? I don’t make fun of people because I know how it feels. I was making fun of a meme for being wholly incorrect. The only person who should take offence to my comment is the dummy who made the meme
And now you’re pointing out that me letting someone know their work is incorrect as harassment? Seriously?
Seems like everyone in this thread is making a mountain out of a damn mole hill
I wasn’t harassing anyone. I called the fucking meme retarded. If your offended by the word, use a word blocker. I’m not censoring myself because you want to be offended. I am offended that people take offence to words. Your offense is what gives the word power. Humbug used to be a slur, guess what it isn’t anymore because ITS A FUCKING WORD.
It’s pretty clear the user autism dragon has a spine, that’s why they’re telling you to back off instead of accepting you using a term they find hurtful
That isn’t standing up for one’s self, that is being a Karen. If you want the internet censored use a word blocker yourself. Till then every last one of y’all can fuck off
We can can care about more than one thing at a time lol. Do you also think black people should just “get over” the n word because global warming exists? Or gay people with the f slur? Do you think that women should stop complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace because global warming exists? Those are often “just words” after all. I care deeply about global warming and want to do things about it, probably more than you do, but that doesn’t mean I have to be ok with words meant to insult and attack me and people like me.
Idk if this rhetoric will work with you because you probably do think those things, at least about the slurs.
This wasn’t about you till you made it about you, you were not the target of a slur. Now fuck off as we would prolly never get along and arguing about something stupid is pointless.
You’re arguing with a militant apathy enthusiast that wants to say edgy South Park tier shit and get no pushback from it, because they’re allowed to be offended at others getting offended and that’s the only offense allowed according to “nothing offends me” reddit-logo types.
Stop being a crybully because your edgy slurs aren’t welcome here.
At some point it’s better to not be offended all day
Except you are right in that post because you’re not getting praised for your stale edgy slurs. Do you have any fucking self awareness at all, you reddit-logo brained crybully?
That is the thing though, until you abolish class contradictions states are the most effective way of protecting the revolution and suppressing the bourgeoisie. So authority does equal self defense in a real, meaningful way.
No, since states can get couped. The most effective way of protecting the revolution is gathering the masses which can happen without the state, indeed, it has happened multiple time throughout history.
The most effective way of protecting the revolution is gathering the masses which can happen without the state, indeed, it has happened multiple time throughout history.
Anarchists in civil war in spain (until some of them decided to fuck off), I would say the makhnovshchina defended itself pretty well with the scarce resources they had, greek anarchists with their decades old squats, bolivian grassroots movements who helped Evo Morales get in power in Bolivia, etc.
I know you’re being cute but “soviet” is indeed a word in English: dict.org/bin/Dict
<span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> adj 1: of or relating to or characteristic of the former Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> Union or its people; "Soviet leaders"
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> n 1: an elected governmental council in a communist country
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> (especially one that is a member of the Union of Soviet
</span><span style="color:#323232;"> Socialist Republics)
</span>
Yeah, it’s so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.
Bruh Idk how you got convinced there are so many bots around. Like, sure, if you write off everything that differs from the nato line of thought as bots, then sure, believe what you want. But ti me that’s just absurd. I assume that people I interact with are actual humans, even if their opinions suck ass. But to be so far up your own ass, as to not even acknowledge that people can think other things than you without them being some evil, heinous bot is just fuckin stupid
I didn’t get “convinced there are so many bots around,” you absolute idiot. My point was only that if and when idiots like you use talking points that are identical to those coming out of Putin’s Kremlin, people can be forgiven for mistaking you for a bot.
What part about this do you not understand? How can I dumb it down enough for you?
Meanwhile, there are literally bots that easily replace humans.
Its weird that someones life is only dedicated to be negative about one thing. And especially because Russia and China love to manipulate and do everything to convince people that what they are doing is great, its not unlikely they are bots. Especially with LLM its very easy to create a realistic bot.
Thinking that they are bots is more likely than not because of these facts.
Well, I guess I shall stop my propaganda and just accept that there are literal communities that are hardcore china or russia fans because of the leftism.
There are reasons why Elon Musk doesn’t feel alone while having no gf. /j
You know, I’ve read exactly one comment from you, ReakDuck, and It would be a bit silly if I assumed from this single comment that your entire life to this point has been paranoid whingeing about Russian bots.
“Russia and China love to manipulate and do everything to convince people that what they are doing is great”
If it’s a matter of propaganda, I hope you understand that America is perfectly capable of churning out plenty of absolute pig shit on its own. All large nations with their own media ecosystems employ propaganda as a means of placation, diversion, and general control. Do you worry about the people who agree with you being bots, too? Aren’t your online peers just as likely to be bots? Do you think your particular party or associates don’t employ the same trickery as everyone else? How have they stayed competitive?
Furthermore, what proof would you require to know I’m not a bot? No amount of personal information is beyond manufacturing. I could even send you a social security number and valid identification and you could say I stole it. Do you see where I’m going with this? That rationale of yours is a catch-all justification of complete dismissal. One can protect themselves from any dissenting opinions if they can convince themselves that the other person writing to them is a bot. There’s nothing they can say or do to prove such an assertion wrong short of showing up at your house and shitting on your lawn.
I believe you should challenge the rhetoric being presented to you instead of protecting your own through frivolous dismissals, but I don’t know why I’ve wasted all my time writing this response to a lib bot.
I’m pleasantly surprised by your response, honestly. I understand the temptation to make such arguments, and I’d be lying if I told you that astroturfing and shit like that didn’t happen, but hard leftists like us are small in number in American spaces and that level of bullshittery generally requires some alignment with corporate interests to find the resources. We’re just a bunch of regular people from many different corners who are really passionate about our opinions for a variety of reasons. Hope I wasn’t too aggro with my comment, and hope the rest of your day is a nice one
I’m happy to see you’ve accepted we’re not bots or something, but
that there are literal communities that are hardcore china or russia fans because of the leftism.
Is just a wrong assumption. The point is to never stop the critique. It’s just that we a) accept the nuance in and the reality of the Ukrainian conflict rather than repeat the lines NATO feeds the west through established media (doesn’t mean we’re fans of putin, but since the start of the conflict any nuance has been labeled as ‘Russia apologia’. Russia is a neoliberal, capitalist state and nowhere does this align with my ideals, doesn’t mean ima start referring to Russian people as ‘orcs’). And b) yeah while china absolutely has its shortcomings (like the disparity between rural and urban China), it is doing some pretty cool stuff too, you should read up about it. This all is of course combined with the knowledge that the west is the primary purpetrator of imperialism, death, desease, hunger, poverty and instability in the global south, while not even being able to channel the stolen wealth to its citizens in order to make some billionairs even richer.
I see people less being hardcore and instead just see them here as people with different opinions. (some are hardcore leftist, but on the other hand reddit you see often hardcore american fans or karens)
You don’t know my hate about america, I definetly hate this system and especially as a German guy who just loves free Open Source Software hate the idea that my school forces pupils to use their bad and unprofessional products compared to free open source ones because they are partners and MC wants money hard as fuck.
But whats tempting me is when I hear how gay people were seen as an illness. Many things that I heard just heard about camps where people with wrong religions are put there which aligns to the German Hitlers conzentration camps. Some things are definetly nice and a good approach from China but youtube debunkers show many opposite truths and gaslights. Democracy like EU is trying to and forces everyone to have the same rights for every human, is what is missing in China. I guess each country can decide by themselves if they are left or right, its just about this ground rules that should not be broken because one president wants to become evil.
I absolutely do not agree that people in Europe have equal rights. You just need to look at how migrants or refugees are treated, and that’s just one example. Recent protests in France also didn’t start because they were treated so equally. Hell, the working class is losing rights left right and center as we speak.
Vocaloid is voice synthesizer software. They’ve actually been around for a while, there’s a lot of artists who will sample them for vocals and mix that into original music.
Cynically mass influencing opinion is immoral. Using automated software to do that is doubly immoral.
The fact that Russians are doing this is not controversial, it is widely documented. Whether they’re doing it here is perhaps questionable, but then again, Lemmy and its APIs are free to use so why wouldn’t they.
When it comes to media attraction, what they call themselves (labels) don’t really matter that much. It’s the praise of strong men, authority, that crosses all mythological media systems. Be it bowing down to a burning bush story, Fox News, or Kremlin.
its really wild that the russians are programming transgender communist robots, maybe they need some critical support now, maybe theyll make real catgirls next
Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.
Trump isn’t in power, no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion and knew exactly how it would play out. Trying to claim they are defending their right to sovereignty, which is bullshit.
Its not a contradiction, several politicians, Biden included, spoke of what would happen if the US threatened NATO expansion into Ukraine. Obama, McCain, Kerry, Nuland, and now Biden set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded. Claiming it was to protect democracy which is bullshit. If the US cared about democracy and sovereignty they wouldn’t have orchestrated a coup with the Pakistanian PM.
This war is 100% about decimating Ukraine so capitalists can go in and divide the spoils.
I’m betting you made a judgment based on what you thought the website was. The website was theCONVERSATION.com. But go ahead and stick to your echo chamber and stay ignorant
The comment was about defending Russia and Putin. You said no one was, you were wrong. Right wingers are the ones doing that, so I showed receipts, to prove you are wrong. Sorry reality upsets you.
Also you literally linked a source to theconservative.com, you can’t make this stuff up.
That’s what I thought too, but somehow there is a “600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop” on their front page.
Like I said, they call themselves leftists, but everything there is only anti-Biden, anti-NATO and anti-Ukraine. Nothing about republicans pushing for child labor, for example, which should be the most important priority for a pro-workers group.
Posts about the ongoing child labour in the US appear on hexbear and lemmygrad frequently…
Trump isn’t president, It’s not weird for leftists to criticise those in power more often, nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people or a banderite state for that matter
nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people
Weird that you mention this. I assume you mean NATO, because there is another organization responsible for bombing innocent working people right now, as well as taking the working people of their own country and sending them to die. Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?
banderite state
Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?
Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?
Probably because none of us live in Russia, so criticizing them is a waste of time. Of course they suck, but there’s nothing we can do about it. Nobody in Russia is ever going to read our criticism.
We do, however, mostly live in NATO-aligned countries. We CAN affect change in our own countries. That is a productive conversation to have.
Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?
Nobody is claiming that. You’re having an argument with a guy you made up.
Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?
I hate the Russian government for being cynical liberal mafiosos who use reactionary rhetoric similar to if Republicans were transposed there (“our enemies are exporting homosexuality to us to weaken us” etc). That is still substantially different from making your #1 national hero a Holocaust perpetrator, which Ukraine has done.
“600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop”
Idk about Lemmygrad, I can’t speak for them (I also couldnt find this post when I went to check, and I doubt its slipped off the first two pages in the five hours since you posted this?)
But on Hexbear we think the Hunter Biden story is funny and dont take it seriously. We post about it to mock it.
Supporting Trump is when you show interest in (admittedly boring and inconsequential) ongoing news issues.
Biden is a right wing monster who literally wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that has caused over a generation of misery, horror, and suffering. Not going to get in to the other ones because we literally have several pinned posts on the matter and I’m sick of re-iterating them to ideological brick walls.
Posting about Trump or Putin being bad would be akin to making posts about ISIS being bad: it goes without saying.
Like 99% of people on this platform already agrees with you, it’s really not a contentious issue. There’s no significant MAGA or Russian nationalist instance federated. None of their supporters would see it, it would be a completely moot point.
While it should go as without saying I think it’s pretty hard to take it that way when the following statements get made a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts (like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government) but ultimately warped into something that can’t definitely be proven true or false. Thus whoever spreads those talking points wants to believe those statements as true, which begs the question of why to believe they’re true.
I don’t think I could ever make you believe that we came to these conclusions based on an analysis of world history, economics, and the current geopolitical reality and didn’t need any help from Yuri at the FSB.
You literally don’t understand how we analyze geopolitics.
“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”
a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts
So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?
This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.
(like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government)
Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.
So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?
As if to prove my point… I said they’re statements made around certain known fact, facts that don’t really prove the statement. Like the “coup”. Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition. But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.
This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.
I don’t have problem understanding that things are biased. It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.
Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.
You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.
Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition.
Talking about who should be in government and those people “coincidentally” being installed is plotting to install a puppet government.
But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.
Or were forced to. The point is we know they were successful at installing their people and keeping others out, and “it was just a coincidence” seems improbable given how popular Klitsch was.
It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.
The western narrative deserves criticism. And hexbear is very critical of the Russian narrative, just not the things that they say that are supported by evidence.
You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.
The thing is Tyahnybok was a nobody politically, they went with the more well known Yats as prime Minister. You’ll note that Yats is the leader of the “Fatherland” party
They also say about the defacto leader of the movement Klitsch and the other moderate democrats:
I guess… in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I’m just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together.
I want to ask the reader something, what is being said here? Does this come off as innocent?
No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I’m still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there’s a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I’m sure there’s a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep… we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.
Because to me this reads as plotting to install certain leaders within Ukraines new government.
You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup, you’re adding assumptions to make the fact fit the narrative. Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.
You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup
I dont need to add more stuff. What they said makes it obvious they’re talking about a soft or hard coup. You’re being shown a red balloon and asking for more proof it’s a red balloon.
What would you accept as proof, if not the senior US officials there talking about who should be in government and about moving to make it happen?
Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.
Oh, cool, the people’s front! Let’s learn more about them:
The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement
Oh. Cool. A nationalist pseudo populist organization. Where have I seen those before?
Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.
The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement
For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.
Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.
Did a nuke go off at the Nevada test site in a way that wasn’t connected to US nuclear testing? If so, it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.
For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.
Oh, sorry. But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party. Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.
it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.
Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.
But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party.
Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?
Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.
I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong
Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.
Yes, it is extremely reasonable.
If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.
Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?
Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?
Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them
Begin article quote
The military council is a special body of People’s Front. It develops proposals for strengthening of the defence system of Ukraine.
The council was created on 10 September 2014 together with the political and coordinating councils of the party. It was formed by the party congress which also approved the council’s composition. It included the Chief of Staff of the party and Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Oleksandr Turchynov, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, coordinator of the “Information Resistance” blog, Lt. Col. Dmytro Tymchuk, former acting Head of the Presidential Administration and co-founder of the revived National Guard Serhiy Pashynskiy and former secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, Euromaidan commandant and organizer of the Maidan self-defense units Andriy Parubiy.
The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.
End article quote
I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong
Begin article quote
The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.
If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.
It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.
Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?
Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.
Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them
I’m going to need more specifics than an information dump. Outside of the Azov being in the military council (which I admit was my mistake for not noticing, and I’ll get to why that’s not proof) and Andriy Parubiy (who I wouldn’t consider a Nazi because he been a target of that kind of disinformation campaign by pro-russian media) nobody else catches my eye.
As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.
It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.
Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.
I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.
Again, I would love an alternative explanation for what they said they wanted and were doing lining up with what happened.
As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.
Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.
Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.
Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.
I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.
I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.
You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.
Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.
Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.
I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.
I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.
Okay, yes. And it is reasonable. Do you have any other explanation for what happened?
Edit: lol lmao, this is your explanation
Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.
That’s just straight up counterfactual to what they actually say lmao
End edit
You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.
They’re literally talking about who should be in and out of government and moving to make it happen.
I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.
You’re literally the one being lazy.
I’m done, you’re more than entitled to your willfully ignorant, arrogant bullshit.
Oh how I wish that was true. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many people support Russia in this war, both offline and online, including here.
Maybe I’m wrong about hexbear, I certainly hope that I am, but on lemmygrad I saw long posts with many upvotes explaining how this war is a good thing and Putin is a hero that is fighting against the capitalists etc.
Edit: and now lemmygrad had Hunter’s laptop on the front page. Could they be any more obvious?
Edit2: lol, you almost had me believing that I was wrong and just too paranoid. Then in this very thread I got two people from hexbear telling me how NATO and Ukraine are evil, heavily upvoted. Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin. Thanks.
Right, but if you made a post about how Putin is a great leader or Republicans have better policies and child labour, homophobia and lower taxes on the rich are good on Hexbear you’re going to get shat on in the comments if not outright banned.
Criticizing NATO is more pressing because online discourse is extremely pro-NATO. Reddit, for example, loves NATO expansion and loved when Finland joined. None of the disdain for NATO is praise for Putin being a corrupt nationalist.
Also anything involving Hunter Biden is funny. He’s just an obscenely offbeat person. While the Trump children (except Tiffany and for now Barron) are just slimy sycophants trying to gain daddy’s approval while swindling money out of MAGA morons, Hunter is doing cocaine and sleeping with prostitutes. Its never really in our discourse for anti-Biden posts to criticize Hunter, he’s become a micro celebrity in his own right. If anything we literally like Hunter better than Joe
Its because we don’t have to convince y’all that Trump and Putin are bad because you already think that. We’d just be spitting into an echo chamber, preaching to the choir. There’s no point. To be clear we dunk on Trump all the time. We do not like him.
Why do you think that leftists have to say “but also btw Trump is also bad” every time we criticize Biden? That would make no sense.
We had a user who would uncritically support Russia and Operation Z. A “Z poster”, if you will. They were banned on several accounts and no one really missed them.
Some of us tepidly support the CPRF, which is largely controlled opposition. We recognize that counting since 2014, there’s a lot of propaganda, civilian strikes, and land mines coming from both sides. Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC that follows pretty closely a “dividing line” for the plurality ethnicity as evidenced by the past 30 years of linguistic, electoral, and poling data. And we favor quick peace as opposed to continued hostility that likely will go nowhere.
It sucks that Ukraine’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Russia. It sucks that Luhansk’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Ukraine. It sucks that there’s a geopolitical standoff between the two strongest military powers that overlays this. It sucks that the only imaginable ruling party in Russia is a reactionary capitalist one that was ushered in by Clinton’s intervention. And it sucks that they’re all probably just going to die in a field to resolve it, and make the situation in Bosnia look like a vacation resort in comparison.
There is a silver lining in that we are seeing a great power struggle to subjugate its neighbor, and also in that the wearing down of NATO and Russia allows the less belligerent, more progressive, emerging superpower to have more sway in the world. Some might say that makes it “worth it” but I certainly don’t.
Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC
This is uncritically supporting the Z operation. It rewards the attacker and gives them absolutely no reason to not try again in 10 years (either in the same country or in another one). It’s also what happened in 2014 and you see the results of that now.
Would you favor an immediate armistice with the Nazis in 1943? I surely hope not, but that would be a quick peace, very much like what the advocate for now.
I’m not sure you know the meaning of the word uncritical but go off.
Also, just so we’re on the same page, what do you believe happened in 2014 and what has happened since then until Feb 2022? What political and demographic conditions do you believe set the stage for the conflict that has been going on since then?
Your comparison to WW2 in 1943 is also wildly off. For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust. For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.
For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust.
I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?
For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.
USSR was just as stalled in early 1943, bleeding manpower and materiel, getting massive war supplies from the USA, and the West was insisting that fighting continues to the last Russian. Sounds familiar?
I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?
Okay but can you actually name institutional promotion of nazism? For example publishing celebrations of Bandera, putting the OUN trident on old soviet monuments, funding neonazi run youth camps, etc?
I’m guessing you can’t because while there are certainly Nazi Russians they’ve also tried to suppress any sort of Nazi organizing within Russia. The state is hostile to organized Nazism unlike Ukraine.
To be clear, theyre still a right wing neoliberal hellscape, but it is a low bar to clear and one clears it.
Honestly it’s exhausting to the whole lemmy experience that every time something gets even slightly political, there’s an extreme communist in the comments pushing their agenda.
I can literally say “hey man they all suck yo fuck politics am I right?” And in comes a guy who tells me I’m a Republican or Democrat or fuck America, whatever. I can even agree that the news is biased in America, and I’ll still get the same response.
It makes conversations for the average consumer on the platform unproductive at best, unsettling in its worst form.
For me it’s just the fact that people have delved so deep into their echo chambers that they’ve lost all sense of what regular people think. Like I’m fine with someone being an extreme communist, they can have that opinion, but it seems like a lot of people on here talk to other extreme communists so much that they think more nuanced communists are somehow right wing. It doesn’t matter how much you try to concede to acknowledge their viewpoint, their personal Overton windows have shifted so far that they exclude everyone but people exactly like them, and it just makes conversations impossible.
“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently … and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.”
Gore Vidal
This is out of date, of course. Now the left wing of the Property Party is completely unable and uninterested in wielding power, while the right wing of the Property has descended in to Christian Fascism. But it conveys the essential reality of the situation.
“The other party” implies that there is a party representing the left/workers. I assume you are talking about American politics, and are specifically implying that party is the Democratic Party. To which all I can say, if you are actually serious, is LOL.
Even im weirded out by how thoroughly the left was suppressed on reddit and other platforms. People on reddit only saw themselves mirrored and thought they were the only ones who existed.
I mean Reddit’s director of policy, Jessica Ashooh, is former Deputy Director of the Atlantic Council’s Middle East Strategy Task Force — she’s literally a state department plant.
Dozens of major leftist subreddits were literally banned, CTH being the most famous example, thousands of users received constant arbitrary 3 day bans over and over again with no explanation, the admins and mods who worked with them were pretty open about their suppression of the left
Yeah you keep telling yourself that horseshit, just ignore the fact the admins flatly said we were banned for “inciting violence” in the form of “KIll all slaveowners”
Also “brigading” that’s an interesting word, is that what you’re doing right now?
No because brigading is encouraging a subset of a website to raid something else. A single person cannot be brigading anything as a single person isn’t a brigade.
This community was banned for violating Reddit’s rule against promoting hate.
Doesn’t say anything about brigading.
And since we weren’t a hate sub in any way, my only conclusion is they think “kill all slave owners” is hate, since they LITERLALY complained about that and removed our comments saying so. john-brown
“Remember the human. Reddit is a place for creating community and belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.”
That’s Spez’s quote on the reason for CTH being banned. Looks like it was for all the threats of violence and harassment, which I absolutely regularly saw from CTH posters, and it had nothing to do with hatespeech.
Yes because only nazis oppose a system that does not achieve much other than mass murder leading to authoritarianism.
The British and American empires also led the anti-communist crusade. You’ll note the massive stacks of bodies and constant installation of puppet governments each one is responsible for.
If you think the Soviets weren’t less mass murder-y by a magnitude less than capitalist or monarchist governments you need to learn more about the constant stream of violence that capitalism produces. Even the massively exaggerated death counts of all socialist countries put together by anticommunists pale in comparison to just the British empire.
Also revolutions are the most authoritarian thing in existence. It is literally one class exercising control through physical violence and coercion against the class that has been socially murdering them and oppressing them until they collectively couldn’t take it anymore and were organized enough to fight back.
I’d say both are true. The left is actively suppressed on the platform AND the userbase is not that progressive (particularly on geopolitics) because of it being American-centric.
If I have a truly evil person, say a Hitler like figure. Then I have a guy who is kind of an idiot. How does voting for the slight idiot end up way worse than a guy who wants to commit genocide. The slight idiot becomes the worst evil imaginable, but how?
But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no “other” to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.
The right loves anti-electoralism on the left, it means that they have less of a fight from the left.
Can you imagine how bad things would be if people didn’t vote if they felt like they were picking between the lesser of 2 evils?
This nation would look a whole hell of a lot like modern Florida with it’s politics because Republicans in general turn out way more often than anyone else to vote.
The crux of the issue is, where you see a democracy that is keeping fascism at bay, we see through the illusion of choice that keeps allowing the slow steady march towards fascism.
It’s a ratchet. Gop moves everything rightward (including the Dems) and the Dems refuse to push left in the name of “bipartisanship”. Then conditions get worse (because the policy is further right than before), Dems eventually lose because they allow gridlock and the ratchet suddenly frees up and cranks to the right again.
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
further down:
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
What is it, like, 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare?
Do you think gay marriage would have been protected?
Access to birth control secured?
Anti-sodomy laws getting struck down?
The Affordable Care Act passing?
Disability rights?
Do you think any of those things would have happened if Republicans been able to seize power and hold it unopposed over the last 50 years? No. None of those things would have happened. Those things happened because people further left than them got elected, the lesser of 2 evils won some elections.
They’re sitting on shaky ground because Obama refused to seat a justice, RBG refused to retire when she could have been replaced, and because Biden et all refuse to stack the courts.
Obama didn’t refuse to seat a justice, he was blocked by Mitch McConnell. Who also blocked every single judge appointment that Obama should have been able to make in the last 2 years of his presidency. And Republicans were talking about leaving that seat open until a Republican won the presidency. This is why trump has the most judicial appointments of any president.
And RBG reduced to retire likely out of pride during the Obama years, but smartly didn’t retire during the trump years.
Biden refusing to stack the courts is pretty shitty, but if he does so it’s going to open the flood gates for that being a possibility. Do I think he should? Yes. But I also think that if he does so their should be a cap put in place, but to put a cap in place would require a constitutional amendment, and there’s no way that will get through our current Senate.
Gay marriage isn’t protected. Scotus can shoot it down on a whim
Lol Biden lost Roe
Court decision
Sucks
What rights? SSI tops out at 700$ a month, I can never have more than 2k in assets, and if I get married I lose it all. Just happened to a friend of mine, they’re going to have to annul their marriage so they don’t starve to death. “disability rights”.
It would have been on a state-by-state basis, which is what we’re coming dangerously close to anyway.
We don’t go around campaigning specifically to discourage people from voting. Our project is to get people to see beyond the seesaw spectacle.
When someone offers you two poor options, the right thing to do is to create a better option, even if you take the less bad option in the short run. Voting a Democrat into office and then congratulating ourselves on doing it is how progress slips and how we lose sight of what’s needed.
Because Republicans? We’ve not had plenty of blues elected. We’ve seen abysmal showings from the left and republicans being elected across the nation who are setting out to destroy people’s rights.
Ummm because nuance is a thing that exists. Global conditions, etc. I mean the guy in power during the pandemic saying we should inject bleach or nuke incoming hurricanes sure as shit helped things be worse.
No the right actually hates that. Democrats have been shrieking at us to vote for years even though the entire left in the US is a tiny fraction of the registered electorate. But the right wing won’t stop screaming at us about it.
Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers and gave record breaking funding to corrupt police departments all over the country, also striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s
So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can’t find numbers anyway). How exactly is he “doubling” Trump’s deportation numbers?
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he’s against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
And I’m pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you’re making some factually incorrect statements and it can’t be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.
And I’m pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses.
Honestly this bit makes me extremally curious what your response to the other two issues are. Do you think they’re both good things? I just want to know what I’m dealing with here.
WRT police, the budgeting is not unprecedented. I, too, support defunding police, but as far as all the metrics I’ve seen, nothing about Biden’s budget effect on police funding is out of the ordinary.
WRT the Union stuff, it’s complicated. He used a law meant to protect the country for the way it was indended, and empowered 8 of 12 unions to sign a deal they agreed to. There has never been any evidence of overt or covert threat of actually arresting members of the other 4 unions if they did strike. You might disagree with that, but it was a bold faced lie to say he “(sic) striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s”
You get to decide whether someone on your side lying is better or worse than someone who is merely far-left non-communist calling bullshit what it is. There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it’s lying.
But no. I’ve been reminded hundreds of times that you intend to bring communism by putting guns to the heads of the majority of your fellow proles like myself who don’t want what you do. I know I’m going up against the wall, along with over 90% of my country, if you ever win.
But that’s why I know you won’t win. You can’t execute 400M people, and you can’t turn their hearts by threatening to.
With all due respect, I was replying to someone who made perfectly clear that the will of the majority (vote) was meaningless to them. How exactly do you intend to seize control from 90% of a country who wants something different if not at gunpoint?
Don’t worry about responding. I blocked you too. I’m mid-migration towards servers that defederated the /c/thedonaldmarx communities, so blocking individual people is all I have right now.
It’s not like we’re even remotely subtle here about this fact, we literally glorify the revolutionaries daily, and constantly spit on the idea of electoralism
He didn’t even know about Title 42 and its use by the biden admin to deport twice as many people as Trump, I doubt he has informed opinions on police funding and strike breaking lmao
And this circlejerk is why I block hexbear on the apps I have that allow me to. There is no point in continuing conversation at this point. I’m less than human to you and yours.
??? You literally didn’t know what Title 42 was, and you were spreading poorly researched misinformation about an important issue, also “less than human to you” ??? bro we’re debating on an Internet forum chill out
No, I assure you incredible confidence in your own unfounded beliefs and complete ignorance of the depths of your ignorance is extremely human, as is retreating in to cliches and retrenching when you’re confronted with evidence that contradicts your ideological beliefs.
That’s funny. I hear people lying and want to avoid turning this into reddit 2.0, and you think this is about people calling out my bullshit.
You know what happens if you call out a lie and 100 zealots claim it’s “bullshit”? You still have a fucking lie. Apparently, if I don’t think every single American is literally as bad as Trump, I’m a fucking moron.
Well, working on “having nothing left” by blocking you.
Dude, you’re commenting on a thread about the liberal tendency to write off communist human beings as literal robots, the irony of you being so bad at taking corrections that you immediately jumping weepily onto the cross and play the victim just to avoid having to type out “damn, I didnt know that” is powerful and embarassing.
Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading, and out came all the responders to tell me how ignorant I am because I disagree with them. I’m not a liberal who writes off communists. Neither “a liberal” nor “write off communist”.
Do you believe it is possible for a person to be a communist and also spread something that is not 100% honest truth? Do you all take the Three Oaths?
Sorry, but no. Nice comic, if only it were accurate. You drew yourself with a chad face, so I lose.
Look, nothing personal, but you can still treat someone like shit just because other people treat you like shit.
Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading
Like someone else said, it’s incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn’t even blink. Just erased the interaction from your memory to preserve what is evidently a load-bearing smugness on your part. You’re like a terminator tbh, if you simply acquired a more factual worldview to argue from you’d be a posting juggernaut.
Like someone else said, it’s incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn’t even blink
By bringing up something that isn’t deportation? Ya’ll are willing to lie together. But as someone else JUST reminded me, you don’t care about my vote. We socdems are going up against the wall with everyone else.
We socdems are going up against the wall with everyone else.
Its so fucking funny that you’ll concoct a whole politically illiterate persecution fantasy just to avoid having to admit you didn’t know what Title 42 is. Do you also fake your death to get out of doing the dishes? You’re the second lib to do this in as many days, you guys can stop being scared any time, I’m not gonna send the Stasi.
“Given the grave harm that the Title 42 policy inflicts on desperate, asylum-seeking families, and the public health community’s view that the policy is not necessary, we would have hoped the administration would simply accept the ruling, especially given its repeated claim that it wants to distance itself from the Trump administration’s asylum practices,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s immigrant rights project.
Customs and Border Protection said 25% of the 209,000 people it encountered in August had been stopped at least once over the previous year, compared with 14% in earlier years.
Hmmm funny how numbers change when you account for all avenues of abuse
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he’s against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
the weekend show U.S. Border Patrol agents on horseback violently grabbing Haitian migrants attempting to join the Del Rio encampment. This, the Biden administration claims, is in the name of safety: The mass deportations have been authorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Title 42, which enables expedited deportations in the name of public health during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under Trump, nearly half a million people were removed under the law; the Biden administration has already used it to deport nearly 700,000.
Its use against migrants at the southern border sends a clear and vile message as to whom the U.S. deems to be the public, deserving of health and safety. Under Title 42 — in the name of safety, that is — those being rounded up and flown to Haiti were given no option to apply for asylum or temporary protection status.
It is worth emphasizing, too, that the majority of deportees have not lived in Haiti for many years, having left to find work in South America after a catastrophic hurricane devastated their home country in 2010. Struggling to find enough work to survive in South America, thousands risked perilous journeys to the U.S. border, only to be summarily removed — to Haiti.
Next time before you put on the lib tinted glasses, don’t just look for sources that only count ONE method of deportation and immigrant abuse, count them all, also you used Cato.org, straight up a right wing source lmao
Also because the Biden admin could no longer sustain the use of Title 42 because of the lifting of the final covid restrictions, they now are reviving an older and even worse Trump policy for the border
The lawsuit, filed in federal court in San Francisco by the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies and other groups, alleges the Biden administration “doubled down” on the policy proposed by Trump that the same court rejected. The Biden administration has said its new rule is substantially different.
According to the Department of Homeland Security, about 85,000 migrants have been “repatriated” since Title 42 was lifted. That’s up 65% since the same period last year, which saw 51,246. During the same period the previous year, there were 33,087 repatriations, according to it.
In the United States, we refer to anyone in the Democratic party as “liberals”. Many people refer to Bernie Sanders as “liberal”. It’s kinda dumb, but easy to get caught in when you live in it.
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