Setting aside whether they want her living in their sign, if they know that she’s there and let her stay, I’m pretty sure that they have liability if there are problems. She was living on the roof of a building, no obvious way up or down, and if they say “sure, go ahead and stay” and she is climbing off the roof one night and falls, that’s on them. Not to mention that I am pretty confident that a store-roof-sign is gonna violate a long list of code requirements for legal housing, from insulation to having a bathroom.
And even if you’re gung-ho on the concept of relaxing liability and code for property owners who don’t charge or something like that because you want a lower bar for homeless shelters or something, I am almost certain that the kind of place that they’re gonna aim to permit isn’t gonna be people living on a roof in a sign.
EDIT: Also, while I don’t know the specifics of this store, it’s apparently in a shopping center (and the article referenced that she may have climbed up from other commercial buildings, so they’re probably adjoining). I think that the way those work is that the stores don’t normally own their individual properties, but that they lease from a property owner who owns the strip mall or shopping center, and it’s not like the store can just go start treating the property as residential even if it wants to, even aside from zoning restrictions from the municipality.
Lemme check Google Maps.
Yeah, it’s the “Northwest Plaza” shopping center. Looks like they share a building with a pet food store and a UPS store and such, and there are other buildings in the shopping center.
Yeah, and at Street View level, you can see that there are more businesses in the same building. Like, a buffet restaurant, a pharmacy, etc.
Like, setting aside the whole question of whether society should subsidize more housing, this just isn’t somewhere that it makes a lot of sense to put someone, even if that’s the aim.
A 34-year-old woman was living inside the business sign, with enough space for a computer, printer and coffee maker, police said.
The computer I get. The coffee maker…okay, for some people I get. I dunno if a printer is at the top of my priority list but, hey, I dunno, maybe she needed it for work.
But:
A Keurig coffee maker.
Man, if I were squatting in a store sign, I think that I would be using a Mr. Coffee and Folgers ground coffee, not a razor-and-blades-model coffee maker.
Squatter’s rights wouldn’t be applicable here, time aside.
The point of squatter’s rights isn’t to try to generate more housing in random nooks, but to force regularization of the situation – like to encourage property owners to act to eject people now rather than waiting fifty years and then, surprise, enforcing submarine legal rights.
Using squatter’s rights requires that possession be adverse and open. Like, you can’t secretly hole up in a corner somewhere, as the person in the article did. You have to be very clear, have everyone know that you’re living there. The property owner also has to be making no efforts to remove the person. Those restrictions aren’t just arbitrary – they’re to limit it to situations where is a long-running divergence between legality and the situation in place and where nobody is attempting to rectify the situation themselves (either via selling rights to live there or ejecting a person or whatever).
Nah, speaking from personal experience, I grew up in a sutuation where my family took care of a small adjacent strip of property we didn’t own for 20+ years. The true owner lived ~5 houses down and for 18+ years he didn’t know he owned it. —In that situation we could have claimed the property and the only reason we didn’t is the cost of surveying the property was greater than it’s perceived value. it was probably 20 ft wide and had a large storm drain running under the middle of it that came from a walmart parking lot a half-mile away.
fast-forward a few years and the people we sold the home to were moving out and the number of acres listed had been updated to include that strip of land.
A spokesperson for SpartanNash, the parent company of Family Fare, said store employees responded “with the utmost compassion and professionalism.”
“Ensuring there is ample safe, affordable housing continues to be a widespread issue nationwide that our community needs to partner in solving,” Adrienne Chance said, declining further comment.
Warren said the woman was cooperative and quickly agreed to leave. No charges were pursued.
“We provided her with some information about services in the area,” the officer said. “She apologized and continued on her way. Where she went from there, I don’t know.”
I feel like there’s very few opportunities these days to say this, but the cops and business owners in this situation actually seem to have behaved in a very humane and decent way here, so that’s a nice surprise
cops and business owners in this situation actually seem to have behaved in a very humane and decent way
Well it’s nice that they didn’t beat her to death. But they still kicked her out and didn’t actually provide any more help. “Services in the area” probably will be less adequate than what she’d had before they booted her.
I don’t expect them to actually take care of her, but they don’t get a gold star for declining to bludgeon, strangle, or imprison her. She’s on her own.
I mean, I would add on not sticking her with a criminal charge as an important thing they didn’t do here, because the whole story of “oh you missed a court date because we sent the notice to an address you haven’t lived at in years, so now we’re fining you on top of the original criminal charge that brought you in here, [soon] wow, you’ve got a lot of missed court dates and unpaid fines, you look like a career criminal who needs the book thrown at them” happens a lot,
And there’s a very real chance that the contractors looked the other way and then this woman’s residence got discovered they could have lost their licenses or otherwise gotten in trouble
Like, I think what you’re pointing out is a really important perspective and we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that a woman with a home was made homeless here, but I think a lot of relatively powerless people here tried to be as humane as an inhumane system would let them be, and I think that’s important too. I think the way this world gets less shitty is when more people start making these little steps towards revolutionary kindness and then those little steps start getting bigger and bigger.
Again, it’s not praiseworthy that they merely declined to abuse her. I’m not scorning them, but they get zero credit for declining to abuse her (beyond the abuse of kicking her out with no help).
there’s a very real chance that the contractors looked the other way
Without evidence, there’s no point in this speculation unless you’re hired by their PR to praise them (which seems unlikely).
the way this world gets less shitty is when more people start making these little steps towards revolutionary kindness and then those little steps start getting bigger and bigger
Sorry, but this is absolute nonsense. It’s meaningless. She is homeless.
a woman with a home was made homeless
This is the only story. Let’s not waste time praising the heroic saints who kicked her out.
There was no measure of good whatsoever. Her situation was made objectively worse, and we’re presuming to praise those responsible merely for not making it even more worse. I’m not the one who created any doom or gloom. I didn’t kick her out. And it’s not cynical to sympathize with the homeless woman instead of with the people who kicked her out. Mate.
So you’re saying it would have been better for her if she was charged with crimes? She would be stuck with fines and probably jail time. You do realize SHE was breaking multiple laws by being there right? So yeah, it is a small measure of good because they looked the other way rather than filing charges.
Ok, so in your eyes it’s the same as if they pressed charges? Which they absolutely could have done since she was stealing power from them for over a year and trespassing.
How about the definition of “cruelty”? The law itself is unjust. It’s bananas to me that someone can be criminalized for seeking shelter in good faith. She wasn’t destroying that area or stealing (except some electricity). She needed shelter. I learned in kindergarten that we need food, water, and shelter. Didn’t you learn those as needs? If not, maybe you really are the ignorant one.
It’s not “kind” to simply not enforce a cruel law. It’s just not being as cruel as they could be. Just because they could’ve abused their power more and didn’t, doesn’t make them good. It just makes them less shit.
My work had people squatting under the awnings at at night. We let them as long as they didn’t make a mess and left while we were open. I gave them coffee sometimes. They could have just ignored the situation or told her she couldn’t have the extension cord. Like genuinely, as a real human to human interaction, that’s what they should’ve done.
If she’d been a squirrel or some pigeons, they would’ve probably left her alone. Because we can understand that animals need shelter.
Did you know there are programs and help for people like her? A place where she can stay safely. A place where she’s not ON A ROOF LIVING IN A SIGN which is certainly unsafe and if she were to get hurt, guess who’s on the hook for that? Yeah, the business. Cruel would be putting her ass in jail and fining her.
People always say “there’s a program,” but actually kook in her city for programs - what are they? Are they shelters? Or real housing? We usually DON’T have those programs, which is why people end up living behind signs
Okay, take another 5 second search and look into why homeless women (and men) do not like staying in showers. Look up the rates of rape and sexual assault in shelters. Shelters are not safe alternatives. Her sign was much safer.
And she’s also a homeless woman. Women need private spaces when they are homeless, they can’t just be on the street as safely as men are. They space was probably VERY safe for her compared to a shelter.
Would you like the officer to take a second mortgage out on his home and build her a room on his house? The system is broken, the cop did his best to not make it worse.
I’m not blaming the cop. But I’m also not praising him. Nobody here helped the woman. Let’s just lament her homelessness without weirdly congratulating the people who kicked her out.
You know back during the Great Depression, we used to let widows buy their homes for pennies rather than let them be homeless. It’s sad that these days, our sense of community is so fucked that people would pick profit over making sure everyone in their community has a house.
I agree it sucks, but they can’t reasonably let her continue living there after they found out. There’s so many legal and ethical issues with that. They are not qualified to provide housing. We need to provide better alternatives.
‘That likely’ so you’ve decided based on nothing except your preconceived opinions which are likely based in the first place on nothing more than ‘it makes me feel good to believe this’
The ethical problems are that it’s not designed to be lived in, so it’s probably not safe. It’s also an ethical problem to kick her out without a safety net, but there’s plenty of reasons why I could think of that would make it not OK for her to be there.
We aren’t talking about a toxic waste dump or a steel mill. This is a grocery store attic.
I’d agree that if they rented the space to her that would be unethical as they aren’t providing essential utilities like water and sewage. However, this location was likely safer and more private for her than camping out on the street. Her situation was not improved by being evicted. She was harmed. That’s why it’s unethical to evict on discovery.
They behaved kindly because they were in the wrong - it’s almost certain that if they’d used force and she’d resisted that it’d end up in front of a judge and she would be able to claim the area as a residence.
Correct, and Squatter’s Rights are meant to apply to properties abandoned by their owners, i.e. they’re meant to prevent absentee landowners from just hoarding buildings wherever and never visiting or maintaining them. Or traditionally, if a property owner has died with no next of kin, or someone believed they inherited a property from a dead relative and this was not contested. Somebody simply hiding in a thoroughly used and very much frequented and maintained building in such a way that they’ve managed to escape notice for some amount of time doesn’t allow them to magically put the deed in their name.
To make a successful claim this woman would have had to occupy the premises for 15 years, or do so for 10 years while also paying the property taxes on it. Further, their occupation has to be “open and notorious,” i.e. it cannot be in secret (she failed that requirement right off the bat) and occupation must be exclusive, i.e. others don’t have access to the property. That requirement was obviously failed as well.
Yeah, it’s messed up that nearly everyone from the US would read that headline and make the same assumption without batting an eye because we’ve been conditioned to expect nothing else from police. It sure would be nice if we lived in a country where policing was actually a civil service and not a damn street gang.
Contractors curious about an extension cord on the roof of a Michigan grocery store made a startling discovery: A 34-year-old woman was living inside the business sign, with enough space for a computer, printer and coffee maker, police said.
“She was homeless,” Officer Brennon Warren of the Midland Police Department said Thursday
There’s a lot of bullshit in zoning to begin with. Why exactly can’t we have mixed commercial and residential areas in suburbia? Slap some apartments on top of grocery stores, bakeries/restaurants, and shops; or is forbidden to have much of anything within walking distance of homes?
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