Looking for a new car under $20,000? Good luck. Your choice has dwindled to just one vehicle (apnews.com)

At a time when Americans increasingly want pricey SUVs and trucks rather than small cars, the Mirage remains the lone new vehicle whose average sale price is under 20 grand — a figure that once marked a kind of unofficial threshold of affordability. With prices — new and used — having soared since the pandemic, $20,000 is no longer much of a starting point for a new car.

This current version of the Mirage, which reached U.S. dealerships a decade ago, sold for an average of $19,205 last month, according to data from Cox Automotive. (Though a few other new models have starting prices under $20,000, their actual purchase prices, with options and shipping, exceed that figure.)



The new 2024 Chevy Trax, which has gotten rave reviews, starts at about $21k.

It is infinitely better vehicle than this Mirage.

@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

What’s the Nissan versa going for? I thought it was supposed to be cheap as balls too?


Fuck Nissan and their shitty transmissions

@geogle@lemmy.world avatar

Difference is that the number they’re looking at is the average sales price. There is a big difference between starting price for a bare-bones option without fees and actual sales price across the model line.


Even a base-model Trax is better equipped than a mid-range Mirage.

A well-equipped Trax can be had for mid 20k. A fully loaded one still comes in at under $27k.

That is a hell of a deal any way you look at it, and yet some people are still somehow complaining about it?! WTF?


Mid 20k is a bit higher than “under 20k” though right?


…so get the base model.

Oh, but I get it. You aren’t looking for solutions. You are just looking to complain. Got it!


It’s still cheap, only 20x the minimum wage

At least if you consider that in my country the cheapest is 50x the minimum wage


The minimum wage is not $1,000 anywhere in the United States.

At the absolute worst min wage, the car is 2x the minimum wage.

@Dyf_Tfh@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yearly vs monthly wage.


How are people up voting this. Can people not do 1st grade basic math? This is just incorrect


Maybe the car is 0 dollars then the math checks out.


I hope China can flood the market with cheap EVs.


I hope the Chinese do a better job at it than the Vietnamese have. Vinfast cars are awful.


A fucking Mirage? That’s even worse.


Detroit thanks Biden for standing behind trumps China trade war or else the American consumers may have been able to get a new EV at half that cost.


I hate to tell you, but you’re throwing money away if you’re buying a new car.

snooggums avatar

I don't think you hate telling people that.


More people buying used cars instead of new cars does not benefit me, so I’m not happy about advertising it as a good way to spend less money. Maybe “hate” was a little too strong of a word to use.

snooggums avatar

'Enjoy' is probably a better term.


I mean, “I hate to break it to you” is an idiom. I probably use idioms too much without really giving them any thought.

snooggums avatar

I hate to break it to you, but it was fun giving you a hard time :)


I’m glad you had fun.

snooggums avatar



Alright bub. You tried buying a car in the last 3 years?


You have any recommendations on how to find a good range EV used?


Sit down and wait? Yeah that’s not great


You mean the used ones that will need a battery replacement in the near future?


This has been debunked



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  • tider06,

    2030 is more than 5 years from now.

    People who need cars can’t wait 7 years to buy one.


    Not only that, the new technology will be pretty expensive initially. I say wait another 5 years for prices to come down.


    I’ve been waiting for aptera, but I think my current vehicle will finish falling apart before they finally come out. I’m going to look for a battery replacement on a bolt.

    Leasing is terrible, I’ll pay much much more over the lifetime of the vehicle. I can afford the money, I just don’t want anything expensive or fancy.

    ivanafterall avatar

    Build one of those custom jobs that runs on fry oil?


    That’s why I bought an 18-year-old Porsche. I’m a sly one.

    @geogle@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re supporting a local mechanics shop at this point


    I have a recurring service appointment every two weeks where I drop off the car and throw a stack of money at them.

    Actually, it’s a reliable car, but the previous owner ignored a few big service items. Now that those are done, it’s cheaper to maintain than you might think.


    “Average sales price” what a shitty headline, but hey gotta soak that karma somewhere.

    Consumers are choosing expensive vehicles and companies are responding. Stop blaming everyone else but the rampant over spending on features.


    You poor bastard.

    When your choices are made for you, you have no choice.


    Blah blah blah, everybody but my own fault. You do have a choice. Instead of buying the model with 50 different features, you can buy the one with plain cloth and 5 inch shitty screen. But you won’t because you want ACC, heated seats, and cameras everywhere.


    Shipping all the Mitsubishis for sale. https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/83b5ed6c-d22a-4ce0-9798-1f821017af50.png


    Big “millennials and their avocado toast” energy

    aebrer avatar

    Lol apparently having AC in your car is a privilege and not a basic feature... It's 2023 and it's just getting hotter, I want AC sorry


    Pretty sure AC is standard in most (all?) cars sold here so I expect he’ll start trashing us for “spending extra” on motorized windows next


    No car comes with AN OPTION for AC. He is kinda right you know. No car on the market has equipment so basic it would be unlivable. All come with central locking ac, electric windows, ps, most come with cruise. I can see drivetrain options, but spending 19 grand optioning up a Mirage is just mad.

    aebrer avatar

    In that case I do kinda agree, guess I just misunderstood his point haha


    Find me a new vehicle without AC. Oh right, you’re just making shit up to make it seem like you have a point 👌

    @SymphonicResonance@lemmy.world avatar

    According to Kelly Blue Book you are correct:

    Barring an unexpected last-minute change, every mainstream car available for sale in the United States for the 2023 model year will come with standard air conditioning. That’s a first.

    The last holdout was, unsurprisingly, the Jeep Wrangler. For the 2022 model year, buying a brand-new Wrangler without A/C is possible.


    I’m actually surprised there was one still left last year.


    Oh God I realized you literally have no idea what ACC is and you think it’s AC 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Confidentlyincorrect material right there 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


    What is inaccurate? Care to speak up about what you think I’m wrong about here? You don’t think I can go out and find you a list of base model cars for under 20k?


    That’s the core of your argument. Why wasn’t that the very first thing you did?


    At the current minimum wage ($7.25), it’s takes 2.757.6 hours or nearly 70 40-hour weeks to reach $20,000.

    That is over 1.3 years of full time work to equal the one “cheap” car option. And it completely ignores any other costs, like taxes and interest, let alone god-damn housing, food, medical bills, etc.

    This economic system is fucked. If you’re not fighting for income and wealth equality, you’re sociopathic.


    This assumes no home, food, or fun outside of work beyond daydreaming.

    ivanafterall avatar

    Who has the time or energy to daydream?


    Who buys cars with cash??


    But minimum wage -> minimum effort, right? I have no problem with no effort => no reward.


    I’m making way more money as an EE than when I was a teen making minimum wage at a factory. That shit is grueling and far from no effort


    Clearly you’ve put effort into becoming an EE. Clearly it has paid back. I don’t see why you’re arguing.


    I don’t see why I wouldn’t want my fellow man who is struggling in the system to do better just because I went into huge debt to be an EE


    Nobody wants your fellow man struggling in the system whether you went into debt or not. Some fellow men, however, are blood sucking assholes living off others’ effort.


    Yeah, and those blood suckers are the richest assholes out there

    @Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Not caring about the well-being of others is called Antisocial Personality Disorder i’m afraid


    Strawman argument.


    It’s an ad hominem, not a strawman. Maybe if you actually studied philosophy instead of just parroting people who just want your attention for monetary gain, you’d understand why the minimum wage being dangerously low is bad for everyone.


    You’re obviously of great education, yet fail to see my point completely. What gives.


    You’re not doing a good job explaining yourself. It currently reads like you’re being a troll who thinks that people should starve.

    If I squint, I can maybe see how you’re actually trying to aim yourself at the owning class, but your points aren’t coherent enough for that to make sense.

    Plus, I’m neurodivergent, I can barely parse regular speech half the time, I’m not going to spend much more effort than that on someone who appears to be retaliating rather than explaining their position.

    @Nobsi@feddit.de avatar

    Your mom is a strawman argument.


    I’ve worked minimum wage jobs and jobs that pay far more, and I definitely wasn’t working harder at the high paying ones


    That’s why, if you or someone you know doesn’t make enough, you get a used car. Brand new cars are such a waste of money. With that being said, prices across almost everything today is still fucked in the US with housing definitely being the worst offender.


    I make enough and I drive a 2007 accord. Fuck paying for a new car.


    Don’t worry, if you can’t afford it in cash you can always take out an 84 month loan at 6.5% if you’re lucky, so it’s actually only ~$25,000, or 3,448.3 hours/86.2 40hr weeks!


    Yes that seems very reasonable. Also why the fuck are you buying a new car on min wage lol

    I make about 8x the min wage and I would still probably never buy a new car.

    @IonAddis@lemmy.world avatar

    Covid fucked up the car market pretty bad for several years and it’s only NOW just barely recovering. People were selling used cars for more than they bought them new. And used shitty cars that used to go for cheap are going for premium prices.

    If you’re going to pay out the nose anyway, it starts to make a lot of sense to get something new because it’s both cheaper and you’ll know the full history and have the full warranty.


    minimum wage is too low

    Very reasonable take. I’m here for it.

    all jobs should be compensated equally and wealth should be distributed equally

    Hard pass.


    Communists should take a long, hard look at how well communism has worked elsewhere. Capitalism has many problems, and wealth inequality is one of them, but it’s the economic system that has worked best so far. The fact is that my surgeon should earn a lot more than my gardener.


    Really, the problem stems from the idea of wealth in general. To use a Communist structure like that would require eliminating the concept of non-tangible “wealth” entirely. Because otherwise you get the kind of incongruencies that you describe.

    It’s hard though, right? Without wealth, how do you value the work of others? It used to be done by bartering. Or perhaps people did it because they were good at it, and didn’t mind helping out. People worked together.

    Obviously this doesn’t fit in the modern era, when people generally work specifically to earn money, rather than for some general purpose. People probably aren’t going to want to do the job they already have in exchange for nothing but goodwill. They have to have a purpose. Our purpose in Capitalism (unless you are very lucky) is to earn Wealth so we can continue to exist, and as a guiding philosophy that does a decent enough job for most people.


    how do you value the work of others? It used to be done by bartering. Or perhaps people did it because they were good at it, and didn’t mind helping out. People worked together.

    You’re romanticizing an era that never existed. Even if we can build such an economy, it’s absurdly impractical in a modern, complex world. Sure, if we only had to build homes, hunt, and make babies that’s fine, but too many modern necessities, such as sanitation, require a reward beyond being good at it or helping out.


    Yes, this was my exact point. Money is how we quantify the value of effort in the modern era. It’s why Communism will never work with our current framework. They are fundamentally incompatible. Our purpose in life is to make money, we cannot just start giving everyone equal quantities of it — life would be meaningless. It requires a paradigm shift on how we value effort.

    @NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

    If you are minimum wage there’s no way you are getting full time hours. Minimum wage employers will only schedule works for 20 hours a week to ensure they won’t get close to getting benefits.


    if the new mirage is like the old one id rather have used anyway.

    @Hubi@feddit.de avatar

    The 1995 Mirage was one of the most fun cars I’ve ever owned, I’d take it over any newer model.

    @REdOG@lemmy.world avatar

    And with a jiggler it’s an easy one to take!


    It’s spelt gigalo.

    ivanafterall avatar

    I believe the jiggler is the gigalo's money-maker.


    Ok, now that’s funny. 🤣🤣

    @LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

    Americans sure love wasting money.


    If love is code for being forced to by horrible corporations that can do whatever they want because we have no consumer protections at all. Yup. If you mean buying cars, we kind of have to. Public transit is a joke outside like 3-4 major cities. I remember my first job out of college, had a light rail stop within biking distance from home and one right outside the office. Looked into riding it. Near 2 hours each way, multiple transfers. 20 minute car drive.


    Big difference between buying a small car and buying a tank that costs twice as much and burns twice the fuel.


    I feel like you don’t understand that, in addition to the transportation shortfalls from the comment above, people are also stuck buying whatever vehicle they can afford, which oftentimes are the tanks you describe, which unfortunately have the aftermarket values that fall into lower earners’ price range.

    Short of that, I challenge you to get a popular rapper to talk about their pimped out Prius.


    Lolololol you give me a zip code I’ll find you a car cheaper than a truck. What an absurd excuse.


    Who’s talking about trucks?


    I drive and EV, who said anything about a truck?


    I have an 02 VW Golf diesel. My coworkers are constantly asking why I don’t get a new car. My TDi will still be running when I’m six feet under, I’ll never give it up.

    @LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

    There is some truth to this but small cars have been selling poorly for years now. I’m sure marketing campaigns are at play here but surely some people are capable of seeing through those. Why does no one buy small, affordable, efficient cars anymore? It’s baffling to me.


    Honestly it’s becoming increasingly hard to drive smaller cars in the sea of tank sized ones for a couple of reasons.

    First, it can be really hard to see in situations where an SUV is blocking your view of the oncoming traffic or you need to pull out between two tanks. Also, I find it really difficult to drive my small car at night because I have astigmatism and the oncoming trucks and suvs are shining directly at my face the whole time. Last, even small cars with good safety ratings fair poorly in impacts with higher and heavier cars, especially if I had kids I think this would be a significant motivation to not have the smallest car on the road.

    It’s an infuriating situation as someone who doesn’t want to buy a land boat just to go to the grocery store, but I don’t really think the blame can solely be placed on consumers. What we really need is to close the loopholes in emission standards for SUVs, implement a tax on heavy vehicles, and start taxing gasoline at sustainable rate. Unfortunately there isn’t much desire to do any of those things right now :(


    Nope. This is all driven by the car companies. They can get higher margins on large vehicles.

    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Also they’re barely offering sedans any more- except for high performance things

    They’re all cross overs and “SUVs” and “pickups”

    @Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    The fuel economy regulations are more forgiving for larger vehicles. Since the manufacturers fail at making efficient engines, they just make larger vehicles to get a passing rating. This is why small trucks no longer exist and an F150 is now the size of an elephant.


    Barely offer sedans? Only if you specifically mean American manufacturers. Toyota, Nissan, Subaru and Honda all offer multiple sedan models. Claiming there aren’t any sedan models out there is just pure nonsense.

    ivanafterall avatar

    I've had two Mazdas in a row and loved both.


    Lololol just blame everyone but they market! I can walk into a Subaru or Nissan dealership today and buy a no frills car for under 20k (despite the false headline). People willfully choose to spend more on features.


    Right? People can’t seem to cope with the fact that Americans want bigger cars.


    Not just Americans. SUVs (less so trucks) are huge sellers in Europe as well.


    I live in a car manufacturing city. I don't work in the industry but have plenty of friends and acquaintances who do. Have 2nd hand stories of high level managers giving speeches where they literally say they are focusing on trucks and SUVs because the margins are better.


    Oh don’t get me wrong, trucks and SUVs ARE the focus. They just aren’t the only option. I can point out like 5 sedans under 20k with availability. People matter the choice to buy bigger and with more features. There market represents it by making more of them. But you still have plenty of choices.


    Go try. Last time I had to buy a car they wanted 3k over sticker. The market has been a nightmare for years.


    I did a year ago. Outback XT, paid $500 under sticker and they had cheap base trims on the lot for MSRP as well.

    Give these guys a call. They will sell you an MSRP Impreza today. maps.app.goo.gl/TEq15ZHTqbQrrRus6

    These, not ironically at all, are not desirable cars and sit on the lot. So while a nicer more popular car at 50k may still be hard to find, the poverty trims are very much available.


    You are delusional. All you have to do is go somewhere like cars.com to see how wrong you are. Search new, all vehicles under $20,000. There’s a couple, all of them would be over $20,000 after tax, title and license fees. There are barely any cars that cheap now. Car manufacturers are intentionally not offering budget vehicles now. That’s the whole point.

    @LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

    But is it? Even the few small models available aren’t selling. If this were being forced on us, the few economy models would be in high demand but it seems to be the opposite. What is going on in the American psyche? I don’t understand it.



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  • LibertyLizard,
    @LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

    Unfortunately you might be right about this. It’s a difficult problem to fix.

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